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Terry & Teri Cleaveland wrote:
> This may seem like a really dumb question to some of you, but I
> really haven't paid a lot of attention to the Cleveland line until
> lately. I understand the the "Northern" branch pretty much spawns
> from Moses Cleveland. What about the "Southern" branch? Is there
> another line that immigrated or are these northerns that went south?
You have gotten two pretty good answers to your question. By asking
further questions you are attempting to find someone who knows the ancestry
of ALL Clevelands/Cleavelands. The answer to these types of questions
perhaps can be summarized as follows:
1. Genealogy, in practice, is not an exact science! Some don't know the
ancestor from whom they descend because they have not research enough or
sufficient documentation does not exist to produce an ultimately provable
answer.
2. Most Genealogists since the time of the publication of the work by E.G.
and H. Cleveland in about 1898 divide the various lines into a Northern
Group who mostly appears to have descended from Moses Cleaveland and the
Southern Group who appears to have mostly descended from Alexander
Cleveland and Millie Presley of Albemarle Co, Va. As was previously
stated, it appears that the original immigrant for that line was Roger
Cleveland/Dorcas. NO DOCUMENTATION has been found to link Roger with any
family in England, so his origins can not be stated with any degree of
certainty. The original immigrant for this, so called, Southern Line, was
in contention for many years because of a work of fiction which was
published in about 1642. H. and E.G Cleveland perpetrated that "myth" by
publishing information for which they knew (or cared) little about. In
very recent years this work of fiction has been located and most now
believe that Roger was the original immigrant for those who descended from
the noted Alexander/Millie Pressley and who were mostly born South of the
Mason/Dixon line which separated the US during the Civil War.
2. To attempt to divide ALL Cleveland's by geography would be an attempt
in "folly". Of course, there were probably those from Moses who migrated
South and there were probably those from Roger who migrated North of the
Mason/Dixon line in VA. To know the answer to the North/South ancestry
means that EVERYONE would know their ancestry to an original immigrant.
Since we still have queries on that very issue, everyone doesn't know their
ancestry to an original immigrant.
3. There is some evidence that there were other immigrants but, most
people today who go by the Surname (varied spellings) appear to have
descended from one of the two. That statement can not be stated with %100
accuracy as there are many who haven't yet traced their ancestry and there
will probably be some who dispute that conclusion.
4. To my knowledge, there is NO ONE who has found any credible proof that
the two lines as outlined above were connected.
5. To attempt to flatly state a date or even a time period which separated
the two lines means that one would need to find someone highly
knowledgeable on BOTH lines. Obviously, most are only familiar (in a
detailed documentation sense) with their own lines of ancestry. To attempt
that means we would begin over again the controversy created when the
Cleveland Genealogy was published in about 1898 where someone who was
MOSTLY interested in ONE line gives detailed information about another
which is not WHOLLY accurate.
6. As has always been the case, one should attempt to prove their ancestry
family by family and document that information. Perhaps, given enough time
when every one by the Surname has proven their ancestry who might have the
ultimate answer but, I doubt that time will ever occur.
> Do we have much history of this? I'd like to hear from some of you
> on the list about this, and I think it would be appropriate to reply
> to the list as there may be others that don't know this.
We have a history in so far as each has some evidence of proof of their
individual ancestry to one of the two lines I've outlined.
What would be even more interesting are those who contend that they don't
descend from one of these two lines. Then a new controversy will begin and
we will have something to research and "fret" about in the future!
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---------------------
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Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 13:33:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Ddddale(a)aol.com
Message-ID: <971129133301_-590098189(a)mrin46.mail.aol.com>
To: CLEAVELAND-L@rootsweb
cc: Ddddale(a)aol.com
Subject: Descendants of Chillson Cleveland
I am the great-great-grandson of Marcus Cleveland, son of Chillson Cleveland,
no. 1830, p. 774 of The Genealogy of the Cleveland and Cleaveland Families.
Anyone researching this branch, please contact me if you would like to
exchange information. Thanks. Dale Mattis Ddddale(a)aol.com
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Terry & Teri Cleaveland wrote:
>
> This may seem like a really dumb question to some of you, but I
> really haven't paid a lot of attention to the Cleveland line until
> lately. I understand the the "Northern" branch pretty much spawns
> from Moses Cleveland. What about the "Southern" branch? Is there
> another line that immigrated or are these northerns that went south?
>
> Do we have much history of this? I'd like to hear from some of you
> on the list about this, and I think it would be appropriate to reply
> to the list as there may be others that don't know this.
>
> Thanks
>
My Cleveland line is the Moses Cleveland line, but it took me a long
time to find that because my ancestors traveled further south with each
generation. My ancestor I am trying to back track out of Ky indicated he
was out of Va, which in reality he was but the line had traveled down
that way. So to answer you question, yes the Northern Clevelands
definitely came south.
carol
Houston
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In response, to your question about the two lines:
I have been a Cleveland researcher for about 20 years now, and have never
once seen anything to lead me to believe there was any connection between
the "northern" and "southern" Clevelands.
Most researchers agree the southern lines spawned from one Alexander
Cleveland and Millie Presley of Albemarle Co, Va. The original immigrant
appears to have been Roger Cleveland and his wife Dorcas.
Carolyn
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1) Back again. I've heard from two of you on the Nothern/Southern
question. One is a Southern branch that comes directly from England
and the other is a transplant from the North. I guess as with ANY
line, given enough time the family will spread out north and south,
but, is there a time where the families were separated almostly
exclusively as Northern and Southern lines? Is there basically only
the two preliminary immigrants?
These may be irrevelant questions, but I started thinking about them
and don't have the documentation needed to answer my own questions!!
2) Here is a bunch that I would like to connect with. Most of my
material I inherted from Terry's uncle who is now deceased. We have
alway kept the Bi-annual family reunion limited to just Joseph
Grover's family. (We've lost a couple of uncles over the last couple
of years) Several of us have thought about expanding that to include
Jonathan's family also. If there are any of you who are a part of
this line, OR, can help me with this line, I would sure appreciate
it!
Jonathan CLEAVELAND, 05 Jun 1824 Junius, Seneca, NY.
Military* 28 Sep 1864 disc. May 19, 1865. Company C, 59th Reg.,
Inf., IL. Under Capt. George R. Steer. Death* bet 1903-1904
Monett, MO., Burial* Lincoln, NE. Father* Thomas CLEAVELAND (b.
17 Jul 1797, d. 11 Apr 1864) Mother* Hanna WELLS (b. 08 Apr 1799,
d. 09 Mar 1880) Marriage* (1) 11 Jan 1844 Freedom.
Hulda Ann CROCKER, Birth* 31 Jan 1823 Hume, NY. Death* bet
1882-1883 Father* Arthur CROCKER Mother* Miranda HAMBLIN
Seven Known Children:
1) M George Washington CLEAVELAND
Birth* 28 Jan 1845 AL.
Death* 11 Feb 1881 Beman, KS.
2) M Kirkland Ensign CLEAVELAND, Birth* 14 Aug 1847 Yorkshire, NY.
Note* Ensign lived at Table Rock, Nebraska at one time close to
Lincoln, Nebraska. He had 5 children, 3 boys and 2 girls at
least.
3) M John Milton CLEAVELAND, Birth* 09 Oct 1850
Freedom, Garnett, KS.
4) M James William CLEAVELAND, Birth* 02 Sep 1852 Bingham,
Potter, PA.
5) F Sarah Miranda CLEAVELAND, Birth* 03 Apr 1857
Greenfield, Greene, IL.
6) M Arthur Crocker CLEAVELAND, Birth* 20
Jan 1860 Mission, LaSalle, IL. Note*Arthur had nine children, 6
girls and 3 boys, at least
7) M Thomas Oscar CLEAVELAND, Birth* 02 Jan 1863 IL. Note*
Oscar was not yet married at age 41. He lived somewhere in Kansas.
Marriage* (2) 05 Jun 1889 Peggy Rebecca ELLIS Birth* 16 Apr 1866
Barry, MO. Death* 18 Oct 1929 CO. (2nd Marr for Rebecca)
Marriage* 10 Jun 1907 John J. DOVER ( , d. 13 Jul
1926); Girard, KS.
Two Known Children (by Jonathan):
8) M Joseph Grover CLEAVELAND, Birth* 05 Apr 1889 , Minden Mines,
Barton, MO. Death* 08 May 1951Moab, Grand, UT. Burial*11 May 1951 Moab, Grand,
UT. Marriage* 15 Sep 1913 Mattie Rello SLONIKER (b. 04
Sep 1897, d. 11 Dec 1969), daughter of John William SLONIKER and
Willhemina Sophia HANSEN; Alamosa, Alamosa, CO.
Son: 19 Mar 1915 Freethies CLEAVELAND; Alamosa, Alamosa, CO.
Son: 27 May 1917 Oscar Edgar CLEAVELAND; Center, Saquha, CO.
Son: 24 Aug 1919 Joseph Grover Jr CLEVELAND; Alamosa, Alamosa, CO.
Son: 29 Aug 1921 Thomas Robert CLEAVELAND; Alamosa, Alamosa, CO.
Son: 28 Jun 1923 Harry Richard CLEAVELAND; Colbran, Mesa, CO.
Dau: 31 Aug 1925 Guyda Rello CLEAVELAND; Colbran, Mesa, CO.
Son:27 Sep 1927 William Jonathan CLEAVELAND; Colbran, Mesa, CO.
Dau:10 Feb 1929 Rosetta Willhemia CLEAVELAND; Colbran, Mesa, CO.
Dau: 09 Dec 1931Alice Fern CLEAVELAND; Alamosa, Alamosa, CO.
Dau:17 Dec 1933 Sarah Sophia Ann CLEAVELAND; Colbran, Mesa,CO.
Son: 05 Feb 1936 Benjamin David Senior CLEAVELAND; Moab, Grand, UT.
Son:19 Nov 1937 Sidney Ray CLEAVELAND; Moab, Grand, UT.
9) F Rosetta B. CLEAVELAND, Birth 06 Apr 1892 Aurora, MO.
Terry (Phil 4:13) Teri (Ps 37:5)
Lancaster, OH
pastor751(a)greenapple.com
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Seeking information on the family of Isham David Cleveland born 1862 in
Albemarle County, VA married 1887 to Mary J. Kidd. From this marriage came 5
children(thus far); Sally Maria Cleveland 1888-1966; John Cleveland
1889-1965;
Isham Grover Cleveland 1892-unk; Lucy Cleveland 1896-unknown and Luther
Cleveland 1898-1969. All from Scottsville, Virginia according to research at
this point. Isham David's father was William F. Cleveland, and his mother
was Mary Winifred Moon. Any information would be appreciated and will share
info that I have. Thanks very much. Marilyn Hughes Johnson
e mail: gamblinbob(a)aol.com
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Seeking further information on Alexander Cleveland, father of Elizabeth
Cleveland, who died 1826 in Bedford County, Tennessee. She had married James
Coffey in 1750. Coffey had died in Wilkes Co.., North Carolina. Any
information would be appreciated and will share. Sincerely, Robert Campbell
of Long Beach, California, Cleveland/Coffey descendant. RCampb1437(a)aol.com
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This may seem like a really dumb question to some of you, but I
really haven't paid a lot of attention to the Cleveland line until
lately. I understand the the "Northern" branch pretty much spawns
from Moses Cleveland. What about the "Southern" branch? Is there
another line that immigrated or are these northerns that went south?
Do we have much history of this? I'd like to hear from some of you
on the list about this, and I think it would be appropriate to reply
to the list as there may be others that don't know this.
Thanks
Teri
Terry (Phil 4:13) Teri (Ps 37:5)
Lancaster, OH
pastor751(a)greenapple.com
http://www.greenapple.com/~pastor751
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------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
One of my Internet friends sent this -- and I thought I'd share it with you.
How to observe Thanksgiving...
Count your blessings instead of your crosses;
Count your gains instead of your losses.
Count your joys instead of your woes;
Count your friends instead of your foes.
Count your smiles instead of your tears;
Count your courage instead of your fears.
Count your full years instead of your lean;
Count your kind deeds instead of your mean.
Count your health instead of your wealth;
Count on God instead of yourself.
-- Author Unknown
Terry (Phil 4:13) Teri (Ps 37:5)
Lancaster, OH
pastor751(a)greenapple.com
http://www.greenapple.com/~pastor751
November feature page - Thanksgiving
October feature page - CIVIL WAR
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Dear list members,
H A P P Y T H A N K S G I V I N G!!
I had meant to get this out to you before as many of you will be
traveling over the weekend, but it slipped my mind! Had our
Thanksgiving last Sunday as my brother and much of his family was
going to be in New York, and I took husband Terry down to the VA
hospital in Chillicothe, OH and left him there to have his
fluctuating blood sugar monitored.
The best laid plans??
Hope to get our descendancy chart updated soon. Have just taken on a
couple more USGenWeb counties also. Must need my head examined. No
comments from daughter Tami needed here!!
Love to all,
Terry and Teri Cleaveland
Terry (Phil 4:13) Teri (Ps 37:5)
Lancaster, OH
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Seeking data about the ancestors, family, and descendants of Fanny
BURGER/BURGET [b. aft. 1785, probably in Schoharie Co., NY], who m.
________ CLEVELAND in either Schoharie, Delaware, or Chenango Co., NY.
They are known to have had a son named Chilron CLEVELAND.
Fanny was the youngest of six children of Revolutionary War soldier,
Jehoiakim BURGET, Sr. [ch. 1 Jul 1752, Loonenburg, Greene Co., NY], and
Sarah WHITE [b. 1753; d. Ashtabula Co., OH].
Jehoiakim BURGET, Sr. was an older brother of Margaret BURGET, who m.
Revolutionary War soldier, Lemuel CLEVELAND, in Schoharie Co., NY ca.
1797.
When four older siblings of Fanny [Judith; William, Sr.; Milberry; and
Jehoiakim, Jr.] migrated from Smithville, Chenango Co., NY to
Harpersfield, Ashtabula Co., NY with their families ca. 1813; Fanny and
her husband stayed in NY state. They are known to have visited their
Ashtabula Co., relatives in OH.
Thanks for looking.
Milbrey Otto Burgett
777 Bayshore Drive, #601
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33304
Voice: 954-564-1322
Fax: 954-567-1141
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Seeking data about the ancestors, family, and descendants of Conrad
CLEVELAND [b. 1785/1792, NY; d. Benton Center, Yates Co., NY].
According to the "Cleveland Family" genealogy, he was the third of four
children of Lemuel CLEVELAND [b. 1748/1755, MA; d. abt. 1820,
Bloomfield, Ontario Co., NY or Mendon, Monroe Co., NY] and Margaret
BURGET [b. 19 Jul 1763, Schoharie Co., NY; d. abt. 1815, Mendon, Ontario
Co., NY].
Conrad m. Abigail PATTERSON [d. abt. 1818, Alford, Berkshire Co., MA]
bef. 1809 at Great Barrington, Berkshire Co., MA.
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CLEVELAND FAMILY GENEALOGY
Lemuel CLEVELAND: Researching the ancestors, family, and descendants of
Lemuel CLEVELAND of Great Barrington, Berkshire Co., MA; Schoharie and
Middleburgh, Schoharie Co., NY [just to the west of Albany]; and Mendon,
Monroe Co., NY or Bloomfield, Ontario Co., NY.
Lemuel CLEVELAND served during the Revolutionary War from Berkshire Co.,
MA. He apparently migrated westward to Middleburgh, Schoharie Co., NY in
1797. It is believed that he was twice married, and that probably his
second marriage was to Margaret BORGHARD/BURGET, a daughter of Conrad
BORGHARD and Judick VAN VALKENBURG of Schoharie Co., NY.
The PATTERSON and BURGHARDT/BURGET families also lived in Berkshire Co.,
MA from the 1730s to the present day. The BURGET, CLEVELAND, and
PATTERSON families migrated westward together to Schoharie Co., NY and
Chenango Co., NY and ultimately to MO and OR. BURGET and PATTERSON
individuals intermarried several times during the period of 1820 to 1860
from Ashtabula Co., OH to Benton Co., OR.
Milbrey Otto Burgett
777 Bayshore Drive, #601
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33304
Voice: 954-564-1322
Fax: 954-567-1141
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Are you still in need of the children, their birth dates, death dates,
etc. If so I will send it to you.
mailto:rclevela@pacbell.net
Kathy
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Teri, a while back you wrote about Judah Storr married Lucy Cleaveland
and one of the children had a middle name of Fitch. Lucy's father Henry
married Lucy Fitch. If you want more information let me know,
Kathy
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Hi Jackie,
Is it possible to get the book you spoke of? My book only goes to Andrew
Jackson Cleveland. Would really like to have the book, and am quite
willing to pay for it.
mailto:rclevela@pacbell.net
Kathy
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Going through old mail to try and catch up, came on this one. The names
I have for the children are:
Adden
Amaziah
Hezekiah
Ebenezer or Ezer
Zachariah
Abigail
Effa
Junia
Passah
Would like to compare with what you have.
mailto:rclevela@pacbell.net
Kathy
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I am trying to catch up on some old mail and came across this one. It
lists the Ward side of the family and what was on it was correct. I have
more dates, etc if you need them.
mailto:rclevela@pacbell.net
Kathy
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I am trying to catch up on some old mail and this was one of the pieces.
What was it you need on them? I have a few generations of them in THE
GENEALOGY OF THE CLEVELAND AND CLEAVELAND FAMILY, so let me know and I
will send it.
mailto:rclevela@pacbell.net
Kathy
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I also am interested in sources to use in documentation!
Teri
> Hi Jackie,
> Is it possible to get the book you spoke of? My book only goes to Andrew
> Jackson Cleveland. Would really like to have the book, and am quite
> willing to pay for it.
> mailto:rclevela@pacbell.net
> Kathy
> --
> http://home.pacbell.net/rclevela/index.html
Terry (Phil 4:13) Teri (Ps 37:5)
pastor751(a)greenapple.com
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