Beginning March 2nd, 2020 the Mailing Lists functionality on RootsWeb will be discontinued. Users will no longer be able to send outgoing emails or accept incoming emails. Additionally, administration tools will no longer be available to list administrators and mailing lists will be put into an archival state.
Administrators may save the emails in their list prior to March 2nd. After that, mailing list archives will remain available and searchable on RootsWeb
Thanks. M.E.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kith-n-Kin" <Kith-n-Kin(a)cox.net>
To: <clay(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [CLAY] Clay book
> The book is _Kentucky Clay, Eleven Generations of a Southern Dynasty_, by
> Katherine Bateman.
> Chicago Review Press, Incorporated
> November 01, 2008
>
> We'll look forward to *your* review -- <G>
>
> Pat (in Tucson)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: clay-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:clay-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
> Behalf
> Of M.E.Sorensen
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:08 AM
> To: clay(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: [CLAY] Clay book
>
> What's the title and author of the Clay book? Borders Book store is
> closing
> and when I get home today I'd like to check and see if they have it.
> Thanks.
> M.E.
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CLAY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in
> the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CLAY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1866 - Release Date:
> 12/27/2008 8:49 PM
>
>
What's the title and author of the Clay book? Borders Book store is closing and when I get home today I'd like to check and see if they have it. Thanks. M.E.
Ned, thank you!!?? gynger cook
-----Original Message-----
From: Ned Boyajian <nboyajian(a)earthlink.net>
To: clay(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 10:12 pm
Subject: [CLAY] New Clay Book -- for real?
Happy/Merry everyone,
Just saw on the Clay list on GenForum that someone named Katherine Bateman is
promoting a book she has written on the "Kentucky Clays" -- Her plug refers to
John Thomas Clay (uh-oh...) and her website shows a pedigree with "JTC"'s
aristocratic ancestors. Has anyone read this book? Know Bateman? Has she
discovered long-missing documentation or is she re-hashing old myths? I'm not
keen on shelling out $ for the book if it's the latter.
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLAY-request(a)rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message
Well, that's what I get for (a) only drinking one cup of coffee and (b) not
checking this out before speaking. I've been researching the
thoughts/assumptions/documentation today, including Ned's very nice synopsis
of Robert Young Clay's work, Stephen Southall, the Library of Virginia, the
Cook family, and others. To summarize:
In order to close the loop, we need:
Documentation that
(a) John Wall had a "son-in-law" (step-son) named Charles Clay, to whom he
gave two ewes. This is pretty well documented. Date: Oct 1660
(b) Elizabeth (___) Clay m John Wall (and maybe a Tate) What is the
documentation for the "Elizabeth" name? Depositions in 1662, Ned, quoting
Robert Young Clay.
(c) This Elizabeth Clay was the widow of John Clay the Immigrant (not some
other John Clay, and not some other Clay entirely) What is the documentation
for the name of her first husband? There was a John Clay in IoW County, and
maybe others. This is the kicker.
Below my message I've left the rest of my gleanings, but the "assumption"
appears to be that because "a" John Wall held property near "a" John Clay,
that the "Elizabeth (___) Clay-Wall-Tate" had to have been married to "our"
John Clay, and that therefore Charles is the "last" son of John the
immigrant.
"On 3 October 1660, a deed of gift for 2 ewes was made by John Wall 'unto
his son-in-law Charles Clay' in Charles City County (Fleet, Virginia
Colonial Abstracts, Vo. 11, Charles City County Court Orders, 1658-61, page
78). The term 'son-in-law,' at that date, usually was used for a stepson. It
seems probable (from this reference) that the widow of John Clay, and mother
of Charles Clay, had married secondly John Wall" - Barnes, Robert,
Genealogies of Virginia Families (The Virginia Magazine of History and
Biography), Vol. II, p. 79.
I just did a quick "drive by survey" of the land and find it interesting.
In 1636, Charles City County was west of James City County, which was west
of Warrosquoyacke, renamed to Isle of Wight. Chippoakes Creek is, and
apparently was, the dividing line between IoW and James City, which became
Surry in 1652.
So, visually, west to east along the James River:
Charles City County/Prince George ----- James City County/Surry -----
Warrosquoyacke/Isle of Wight
Jordan's Point, or Jordan's Journey is about 35 miles from Chippoakes Creek,
via road. Of course, by boat it's something different.
1629 John Wall is in Surry County (then James City County) adjoining John
Clay.
1635 John Clay patents 1200 acres in Charles City County on Ward's Creek.
1643 John Wall is in Isle of Wight County, Chippoakes Creek, the border
between Surry/James City and Warrosquoyacke/Isle of Wight, between John
Hooke and Wm Pilkington, adjacent John Clay and John Freme.
1655, Wm Bailey in Charles City County, reference to 200 acres granted
..Hooke 26 Oct 1637...assg to John Clay and John Freme.
1660, John Wall is in Charles City County, giving Charles the ewes.
Frankly, unless some were unrelated patents and activities, this makes no
sense to me. We know he lived in Charles City County, when he was mustered
with Anne, and perhaps he held land elsewhere.
More research needed there, regardless.
The upshot is, I think, that people are making the "contiguity" argument,
that the "only" possible husband for Elizabeth in the neighborhood is John
Clay the immigrant. Rule #3 of genealogy research is "never fail to look for
the 'other' solution. Who else could this be?"
Others take a "possible" but not "only" position. Southall and others
propose that the John who married Elizabeth was a son, not the immigrant. If
there are documents on the passing of his property to William, (as the first
son) it is possible that there were documents relating to the son John, but
are either lost, or "mis-filed." (in San Marino?) Heck, maybe he was
William's son? Nah, that's too may years, I think.
Apparently some have used the Barnes, Southall, or RYClay documentation to
get into the Order of Ancient Planters, but which one? I'd be curious to
know.
There are an awful lot of other records around regarding "other" Clay men,
for me to be that comfortable.
In more detail, RYC says, as transcribed by Bill LaBach:
" Researchers seem now agreed that his marriage to Ann likely took place
here
rather than in England. She is assumed to be the mother of John*s son
William. At some later date, John married a second wife, Elizabeth, whose
surname is also unknown, who was the mother of Charles. After John Clay*s
death, Elizabeth his widow married a close neighbour, Captain John Wall
and
after Wall*s death, she married John Tate. That Elizabeth was the mother
of
Charles Clay is proven by a deed of gift of two ewe lambs from Captain
Wall
to his sonne in Law Charles Clay, 3 October 1660. Elizabeth Clay Wall is
the
subject of several depositions in 1662 when she was involved in a brawl
with
an Indian servant who hit her, bit her, and tried to force her head into
an oven then red hott & ready
for bread to be set therein. Our early ancestors were such a gentle lot!
John Clay died at an unknown date, From the manner in which his property
passed to his heir-at-law William Clay, it would appear that he died
intestate. William lived north of the river and several records
concerning
him have survived in the Charles City County and Virginia Land Office
records. His widow Emlin Clay was executrix of William*s will, no copy of
which is known to have survived. There is no indication that they had
children.
It would appear from the few extant records that John Clay the immigrant
had
but one son who left issue, Charles Clay, who later moved into what is
now
Chesterfield County. He married Hannah Wilson, daughter of John W1lson,
Sr.,
an Indian trader who lived on the north side of Appomattox River near the
present Petersburg. Charles also was involved in the Indian trade as were
several of his sons.
It seems unlikely that the few records that have survived will furnish
further information about John Clay*s life. Unless new records are found
one
can only re-examine and re-appraise those that are known to exist. Have
they
been correctly used and interpreted? Has every scrap of data been
thoroughly
understood?
So, have we indeed re-examined and re-appraised the records? How do we
account for the Isle of Wight "John Clay" -- some 35 miles away from
Jordan's Point? If it weren't for the name of the creek, I would have to
assume "scribner error" on the county. But that creek hasn't moved.
Truth is, this makes sense to me, but I'd like it to be proven, and I admire
RYC more than most researchers I know. I'm suspicious of the document about
IoW, but haven't seen the original. And, what about the fellows on the north
side of the James river.
I do note that Bateman has added several of the "old" children -- one in
Westmorland county and another one, so I think she's operating off the
Boddie work. And, in this case, his work has been proved wrong.
Pat
Misc, unverified records from various sites:
Adventurers of Purse and Person Jester
CLAY p 192-3
CLAY also owned land on the north side of James River near "Westover",
described in patents to Richard Milton, 29 Nov. 1636 and 26 May 1637. 4 In
addition to these holdings, he owned 1000 acres called "Clay's Clossett,"
which adjoined his 1635 patent on the south side of the James. This was part
of a 2000 acre tract which he, together with John Frame, had purchased from
Capt. Francis Hooke. 5
JOHN CLAY married (1), about 1624, Ann ______ and (2), before 1645,
ELIZABETH _____, who married (2) John Wall of Charles City. Wall conveyed
two ewes, 3 Oct 1660, to his "sonne in Law" [step-son] Charles Clay. 6 Wall
had patented land 20 Sept. 1629 adjoining John 1 Clay. 7 He was dead by 4
Feb. 1664/5 when his widow Elizabeth Wall proved his will, now lost. 8 On 3
Feb. 1665/6 mention is made of John Tate "who married the relict of Capt.
Jno. Wall. "
Surry County Order Books?
"Wall had patented land 20 Sept. 1629 adjoining John (1) Clay. (7). He was
dead by 4 Feb. 1664/5 when his widow, Elizabeth Wall proved his will, now
lost (8). On 3 Feb 1665/6 mention is made of John Tate "who married the
relict of Capt. Jno. Wall." (9)"
" Seventeenth Century Isle of Wight
Some Isle of Wight Families
Page 212-4
August 23, 1643, John Wall patented 1790 acres on Chippoakes Creek, between
John Hooke and William Pilkington, adjacent JOHN CLAY and John Freme.
One William Bailey patented 400 acres of land in Charles City, May 1st, 1655
"part of a dividend of 200 acres granted Captain Francis Hooke 26 October,
1637, and assigned to JOHN CLAY and John Freme and by inheritance descended
unto William Clay son of said JOHN and by William Bailey purchased of said
William Clay, the younger.""
http://pages.prodigy.net/blankenstein/John%20Clay%20&%20Elizabeth.htm
On July 13, 1635, John Clay was granted, in Charles City County, 1200 acres
bounding from the land granted to Capt. Francis Hooke, by the heads of Ward
his creek; south east upon the creek; south west into the main land and
north up the main river; 100 acres due the said John Clay as being an old
planter at or before the government of Sir Thomas Dale; the other 1100 acres
due unto him for the transporting of 22 other persons at his own cost.
(Patent Book I, page 230)
"Genealogy of VA Families VII 1981
Some Notes on the Clay Family p 77-80
Contributed by the late Reverend Stephen O. Southall
(this was written in 1943, don't know why the different dates, reprint?)
We can find only two children who might be sons of John Clay, viz: a William
Clay and a JOHN CLAY who lived just across the river from ward's Creek where
"the Grenadier" lived. William Clay, who sold the land to William Bayly (as
stated in Bayly's patent; see above), is called "the son of John Clay" and
also William Clay, the younger." As there was a William Clay, the younger,"
there must have been a William Clay, the elder. Therefore, we have for the
first John Clay the immigrant, two sons, viz:
William Clay; possibly he is the William Clay n the north side of James
River.
JOHN CLAY; maybe he, too, was the son of John Clay who was on the north side
of James River.
General Green Clay's account says that this second JOHN CLAY had several
sons, but only two of them are known, viz:
William Clay, "the younger", who sold land to William Bayly, as we have seen
above. We know nothing more of him.
Charles Clay, born 1638, died 1688 who married Hannah Wilson and whose
descendants are well accounted for by Mrs. Mary Rogers Clay in her book, The
Clay Family."
-----Original Message-----
From: clay-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:clay-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf
Of SPRAD666(a)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 12:05 PM
To: clay(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CLAY] New Clay Book -- for real?
What are you talking about Pat? The Documentation is in "Purse and
Persons":
Proof of John CLAY (marrying after his first Wife Anne had died) Elizabeth
SOMEONE (who later married John WALL after John CLAY died before 1657), is
in
"Purse and Persons" p. 192. The information, in that well known
publication,
states John WALL conveyed two ewes to his Son - In - Law (Stepson), Charles
CLAY, in 1660 (Charles City Co. Order Book 1655-65, p. 245) .
Charles was the Only Child of John CLAY and his two Wives that is known to
have had Children.
In a message dated 12/27/2008 1:02:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Kith-n-Kin(a)cox.net writes:
Uh, Tim
You mean the John Clay for whom we have no "proof" of relationship? The one
with the "missing link" to Charles?
Her chart has:
"John Thomas Clay" m1 Ann Nichols
Children
Thomas (1615-1673)
William (1617-aft 1655)
Francis (1625-1667)
m2 Elizabeth
child
Charles (1645-1667) m Hannah Wilson
I have heard speculation that Anne was not the mother of some of the
purported children, but where did Elizabeth come from.
Maybe she has found that proof. And, I'll put up with the additional name,
if she has.
Pat
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000
025)
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
CLAY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
the subject and the body of the message
I've been reading all these messages about the Clay book. If any of you buy it and it mentions Amy Clay who married Wm Green. will you let me know please as I would like to buy the book. I believe this Amy Clay was daughter of Henry Clay whose first marriage was to Wm Green, son of the Seagull Green. If so, she is my ancestor. Thanks. M.E. jsorensen4(a)cfl.rr.com
A mind is a terrible thing to loose ... I'd completely forgotten there was a discussion about Elizabeth on this very list back in the day ...
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/clay/1998-04/0892649851 and etc.
Ned
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ned Boyajian <nboyajian(a)earthlink.net>
>Sent: Dec 27, 2008 2:58 PM
>To: clay(a)rootsweb.com, clay(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [CLAY] New Clay Book -- for real?
>
>
>
>Hi Pat,
>
>Bob Clay (Robert Young Clay) uncovered Elizabeth years ago.
>Some of his research is posted in this note and others on GenForum/Clay.
>
>You can start here:
>
>http://genforum.genealogy.com/clay/messages/1228.html
>
>Cheers,
>
>Ned
>
>
>>I have heard speculation that Anne was not the mother of some of the
>>purported children, but where did Elizabeth come from.
>>
>>Maybe she has found that proof. And, I'll put up with the additional name,
>>if she has.
>>
>>Pat
>>
>>
Hi Pat,
Bob Clay (Robert Young Clay) uncovered Elizabeth years ago.
Some of his research is posted in this note and others on GenForum/Clay.
You can start here:
http://genforum.genealogy.com/clay/messages/1228.html
Cheers,
Ned
>I have heard speculation that Anne was not the mother of some of the
>purported children, but where did Elizabeth come from.
>
>Maybe she has found that proof. And, I'll put up with the additional name,
>if she has.
>
>Pat
>
>
What are you talking about Pat? The Documentation is in "Purse and Persons":
Proof of John CLAY (marrying after his first Wife Anne had died) Elizabeth
SOMEONE (who later married John WALL after John CLAY died before 1657), is
in
"Purse and Persons" p. 192. The information, in that well known publication,
states John WALL conveyed two ewes to his Son - In - Law (Stepson), Charles
CLAY, in 1660 (Charles City Co. Order Book 1655-65, p. 245) .
Charles was the Only Child of John CLAY and his two Wives that is known to
have had Children.
In a message dated 12/27/2008 1:02:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Kith-n-Kin(a)cox.net writes:
Uh, Tim
You mean the John Clay for whom we have no "proof" of relationship? The one
with the "missing link" to Charles?
Her chart has:
"John Thomas Clay" m1 Ann Nichols
Children
Thomas (1615-1673)
William (1617-aft 1655)
Francis (1625-1667)
m2 Elizabeth
child
Charles (1645-1667) m Hannah Wilson
I have heard speculation that Anne was not the mother of some of the
purported children, but where did Elizabeth come from.
Maybe she has found that proof. And, I'll put up with the additional name,
if she has.
Pat
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom000...)
Gee, I wonder who this John Thomas CLAYE was? Wonder if he was related to
the John CLAY that came to Jamestown in 1613 that is in my direct line? Tim
Spradling
In a message dated 12/27/2008 12:14:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Kith-n-Kin(a)cox.net writes:
The blurb includes "Clays of Kentucky, a true Southern dynasty. The Clays of
Virginia and the Cecils of Maryland were second sons of the English
aristocracy who gambled on the New World."
Here's an excerpt from the book:
" Excerpt from Chapter 1: The Ancient Planter
Although I cannot prove it, I am convinced that John Thomas Claye-the first
of my ancestors to come over from England-had brown eyes. This may sound
odd, even inconsequential to families who over time have looked into the
eyes of relatives that reflect rainbow hues: blue, green, violet, or that
luscious yellow that turns to key lime in certain lights. It is not odd,
however, to me. My conviction that John Thomas Claye had brown eyes has
substance behind it.
All of us, all of the Clays and Cecils-the mothers, the fathers, the
sisters, the brothers, the grandparents, the babies-are brown-eyed.
Photographs show our dark chocolate eyes for the seven generations that
cameras have existed to capture them. Histories of the early settlers of
Virginia and Kentucky go even further back. One author speaks of my
eighteenth-century relatives not just in terms of their Revolutionary War
service or their careers in law and politics but also discusses in
surprisingly lush language the family's dark brunette looks. A husband
writes love letters to "my black-eyed baby." Oral tradition describes "black
eyes flashing."
Consequently, I think that when John Thomas Claye sailed into the Chesapeake
Bay in February 1613 he gazed at his new Virginia homeland through irises of
brown. I think his dark eyes darkened further when he stepped off the ship
Treasurer onto the wharf built just months before on the James River side of
the fledgling Jamestown colony. They darkened in stunned disbelief as he
walked through the palisade and took in the handful of crude shelters, the
deep mud, and the lethargic shamble of the Jamestown colonists who, like
him, had invested as land speculators in "The Tresorer and Companie of
Adventurers and Planters of the Citty of London for the Firste Colonie in
Virginia.""
>From http://www.kentuckyclay.com/index.html and here's a cool chart:
http://www.kentuckyclay.com/about/lineage%20pages/kc_lineage.pdf
I think this speaks for itself. By the way, my entire family has green
hazel or blue eyes. My father, a Clay descendant, had startling blue eyes.
Oh, the joys of studying Mendel.
Pat Dunford
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom000...)
Here's a link to the book:
http://www.chicagoreviewpress.com/catalog/showBook.cfm?ISBN=1556527950<http://www.chicagoreviewpress.com/catalog/showBook.cfm?ISBN=1556527950>
Barbara Clay Pasch
----- Original Message -----
From: Ned Boyajian<mailto:nboyajian@earthlink.net>
To: clay(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:clay@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:12 PM
Subject: [CLAY] New Clay Book -- for real?
Happy/Merry everyone,
Just saw on the Clay list on GenForum that someone named Katherine Bateman is promoting a book she has written on the "Kentucky Clays" -- Her plug refers to John Thomas Clay (uh-oh...) and her website shows a pedigree with "JTC"'s aristocratic ancestors. Has anyone read this book? Know Bateman? Has she discovered long-missing documentation or is she re-hashing old myths? I'm not keen on shelling out $ for the book if it's the latter.
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CLAY-request(a)rootsweb.com<mailto:CLAY-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Uh, Tim
You mean the John Clay for whom we have no "proof" of relationship? The one
with the "missing link" to Charles?
Her chart has:
"John Thomas Clay" m1 Ann Nichols
Children
Thomas (1615-1673)
William (1617-aft 1655)
Francis (1625-1667)
m2 Elizabeth
child
Charles (1645-1667) m Hannah Wilson
I have heard speculation that Anne was not the mother of some of the
purported children, but where did Elizabeth come from.
Maybe she has found that proof. And, I'll put up with the additional name,
if she has.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: clay-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:clay-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf
Of SPRAD666(a)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:48 AM
To: clay(a)rootsweb.com
Cc: jacord521(a)sbcglobal.net; JNTGREATHO(a)aol.com
Subject: Re: [CLAY] New Clay Book -- for real?
Gee, I wonder who this John Thomas CLAYE was? Wonder if he was related to
the John CLAY that came to Jamestown in 1613 that is in my direct line? Tim
Spradling
In a message dated 12/27/2008 12:14:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Kith-n-Kin(a)cox.net writes:
The blurb includes "Clays of Kentucky, a true Southern dynasty. The Clays
of
Virginia and the Cecils of Maryland were second sons of the English
aristocracy who gambled on the New World."
Here's an excerpt from the book:
" Excerpt from Chapter 1: The Ancient Planter
Although I cannot prove it, I am convinced that John Thomas Claye-the first
of my ancestors to come over from England-had brown eyes. This may sound
odd, even inconsequential to families who over time have looked into the
eyes of relatives that reflect rainbow hues: blue, green, violet, or that
luscious yellow that turns to key lime in certain lights. It is not odd,
however, to me. My conviction that John Thomas Claye had brown eyes has
substance behind it.
All of us, all of the Clays and Cecils-the mothers, the fathers, the
sisters, the brothers, the grandparents, the babies-are brown-eyed.
Photographs show our dark chocolate eyes for the seven generations that
cameras have existed to capture them. Histories of the early settlers of
Virginia and Kentucky go even further back. One author speaks of my
eighteenth-century relatives not just in terms of their Revolutionary War
service or their careers in law and politics but also discusses in
surprisingly lush language the family's dark brunette looks. A husband
writes love letters to "my black-eyed baby." Oral tradition describes
"black
eyes flashing."
Consequently, I think that when John Thomas Claye sailed into the
Chesapeake
Bay in February 1613 he gazed at his new Virginia homeland through irises
of
brown. I think his dark eyes darkened further when he stepped off the ship
Treasurer onto the wharf built just months before on the James River side
of
the fledgling Jamestown colony. They darkened in stunned disbelief as he
walked through the palisade and took in the handful of crude shelters, the
deep mud, and the lethargic shamble of the Jamestown colonists who, like
him, had invested as land speculators in "The Tresorer and Companie of
Adventurers and Planters of the Citty of London for the Firste Colonie in
Virginia.""
>From http://www.kentuckyclay.com/index.html and here's a cool chart:
http://www.kentuckyclay.com/about/lineage%20pages/kc_lineage.pdf
I think this speaks for itself. By the way, my entire family has green
hazel or blue eyes. My father, a Clay descendant, had startling blue eyes.
Oh, the joys of studying Mendel.
Pat Dunford
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000
025)
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
CLAY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
the subject and the body of the message
The blurb includes "Clays of Kentucky, a true Southern dynasty. The Clays of
Virginia and the Cecils of Maryland were second sons of the English
aristocracy who gambled on the New World."
Here's an excerpt from the book:
" Excerpt from Chapter 1: The Ancient Planter
Although I cannot prove it, I am convinced that John Thomas Claye-the first
of my ancestors to come over from England-had brown eyes. This may sound
odd, even inconsequential to families who over time have looked into the
eyes of relatives that reflect rainbow hues: blue, green, violet, or that
luscious yellow that turns to key lime in certain lights. It is not odd,
however, to me. My conviction that John Thomas Claye had brown eyes has
substance behind it.
All of us, all of the Clays and Cecils-the mothers, the fathers, the
sisters, the brothers, the grandparents, the babies-are brown-eyed.
Photographs show our dark chocolate eyes for the seven generations that
cameras have existed to capture them. Histories of the early settlers of
Virginia and Kentucky go even further back. One author speaks of my
eighteenth-century relatives not just in terms of their Revolutionary War
service or their careers in law and politics but also discusses in
surprisingly lush language the family's dark brunette looks. A husband
writes love letters to "my black-eyed baby." Oral tradition describes "black
eyes flashing."
Consequently, I think that when John Thomas Claye sailed into the Chesapeake
Bay in February 1613 he gazed at his new Virginia homeland through irises of
brown. I think his dark eyes darkened further when he stepped off the ship
Treasurer onto the wharf built just months before on the James River side of
the fledgling Jamestown colony. They darkened in stunned disbelief as he
walked through the palisade and took in the handful of crude shelters, the
deep mud, and the lethargic shamble of the Jamestown colonists who, like
him, had invested as land speculators in "The Tresorer and Companie of
Adventurers and Planters of the Citty of London for the Firste Colonie in
Virginia.""
>From http://www.kentuckyclay.com/index.html and here's a cool chart:
http://www.kentuckyclay.com/about/lineage%20pages/kc_lineage.pdf
I think this speaks for itself. By the way, my entire family has green
hazel or blue eyes. My father, a Clay descendant, had startling blue eyes.
Oh, the joys of studying Mendel.
Pat Dunford
-----Original Message-----
From: clay-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:clay-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf
Of Albert Pace
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:08 AM
To: clay(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CLAY] New Clay Book -- for real?
Barnes and Noble have the book for sale and there is also a short blurb
about the contents. It appears to be about only one line and there is no
indication in the write-up that there is anything new. I am thinking about
going to the Barnes and Noble store in Springfield and see if they have it
so that I can look at it more closely. If I make it and they have a copy I
will try to give a more comprehensive description.
Skip
----- Original Message -----
From: <SPRAD666(a)aol.com>
To: <nboyajian(a)earthlink.net>; <clay(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [CLAY] New Clay Book -- for real?
>
>
_http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=first%3A%22katherine%22+last%3A%22bateman%
22
> +state%3A%22illinois%22+&state=illinois&fr=php-phon
>
> In a message dated 12/26/2008 10:13:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> nboyajian(a)earthlink.net writes:
>
> Happy/Merry everyone,
>
> Just saw on the Clay list on GenForum that someone named Katherine
> Bateman
> is promoting a book she has written on the "Kentucky Clays" -- Her plug
> refers
> to John Thomas Clay (uh-oh...) and her website shows a pedigree with
> "JTC"'s
> aristocratic ancestors. Has anyone read this book? Know Bateman? Has she
> discovered long-missing documentation or is she re-hashing old myths? I'm
> not
> keen on shelling out $ for the book if it's the latter.
>
>
>
>
> **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
> Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
>
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000
025)
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CLAY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
CLAY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
the subject and the body of the message
_http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=first%3A%22katherine%22+last%3A%22batem...
+state%3A%22illinois%22+&state=illinois&fr=php-phon
In a message dated 12/26/2008 10:13:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
nboyajian(a)earthlink.net writes:
Happy/Merry everyone,
Just saw on the Clay list on GenForum that someone named Katherine Bateman
is promoting a book she has written on the "Kentucky Clays" -- Her plug refers
to John Thomas Clay (uh-oh...) and her website shows a pedigree with "JTC"'s
aristocratic ancestors. Has anyone read this book? Know Bateman? Has she
discovered long-missing documentation or is she re-hashing old myths? I'm not
keen on shelling out $ for the book if it's the latter.
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom000...)
Happy/Merry everyone,
Just saw on the Clay list on GenForum that someone named Katherine Bateman is promoting a book she has written on the "Kentucky Clays" -- Her plug refers to John Thomas Clay (uh-oh...) and her website shows a pedigree with "JTC"'s aristocratic ancestors. Has anyone read this book? Know Bateman? Has she discovered long-missing documentation or is she re-hashing old myths? I'm not keen on shelling out $ for the book if it's the latter.
Bertha, who and when and where is your John Clay? John was one of the most
common names given to the Clay males. I would be happy to help if you can tell
me a little more about your John. Robin Oliver
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom000...)