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Author: gerrimcdonald50
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/2892/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Too many Marys....
I am researching my paternal great great grandmother Mary Ann Clarke. Mary Ann was born in Manchester @ 1826 according to the 1841 & 1851 census for that city. Her parents were Michael and Mary Clarke born abt. 1800 based on their ages at time of census and birth place identifed as Ireland. Michael was a cotton weaver living at Allum St and 1 Moors Court, Salford.
All of the couple's children were born in Manchester. The other children: Sarah born @1824, John born @ 1830, Elizabeth@ 1841, John @ 1842, Richard @ 1833 and Catherine@1845, all working at some point or other in the mills.
Mary Ann married in 1848 in Templemore Tipperary Ireland. Her husband was Richard Hawkes, son of William. By 1851 she lived with her parents and her two sons William Isaac, 2 years & Richard, 9 months. Richard was likely a soldier as they later moved to Canada where he was stationed in Kingston Ont. Other children were: Margaret born in Manchester in @ 1854, Mary Jane (Jennie) born 1860 in Kingston and Elizabeth @ 1864 in Kingston.
Any information on the Clarkes would be appreciated. Gerri
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Author: gerrimcdonald50
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/2891/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
I am researching my paternal great great grandmother Mary Jane(Jennie) hawkes nee Clarke. Jennie was born in Manchester @ 1826 according to the 1841 & 1851 census for that city. Her parents were Michael and Mary Clarke born abt. 1800 based on their ages at time of census and birth place identifed as Ireland. Michael was a cotton weaver living at Allum St and 1 Moors Court, Salford. All of the couple's children were born in Manchester. The other children: Sarah born @1824, John born @ 1830, Elizabeth@ 1841, John @ 1842, Richard @ 1833 and Catherine@1845, all working at some point or other in the mills. Mary Jane (Jennie) married in 1848 in Templemore Tipperary Ireland. Her husband was Richard Hawkes, son of William. By 1851 she lived with her parents and her two sons William Isaac, 2 years & Richard, 9 months. Richard was likely a soldier as they later moved to Canada where he was stationed in Kingston Ont. Any information on the Clarkes would be appreciated. Gerri
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Author: dchut
Surnames: clark
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/2890/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Frank Clark(e), my grandfather, married Jessie Driscoll in Aprl 1906, aged 34, therefore born in 1872 (approx.) He was then a soldier in the Provisional Battalion based at South Front Barracks Dover. His father's name is given as John. In 1911 Census his place of birth is given as Chelmsford in Essex. Have now hit brick wall. Any help would be appreciated!
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Author: MichaelGriffin74
Surnames: Clarke/Griffin
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.2/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Mary,I am sorry to learn that you never got the package I sent you. I am elated, however, that Kathleen was able to succeed where I failed. Perhaps I can finally get the information to you. I am disappointed, for now, that I could not send the slightly updated package in a PDF file as this facility apparently does not alow it (If I can figure how to build it as a GEDCOM, I'll try again through this post.). If my email address is sent along with this reply, if you can provide an email address to me, I will send it more directly. Will a PDF work for you? If not, please advise. Regards, Mike Griffin
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Author: mgsearch10
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.3.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Thank you so much for the obit, although he was not my grandfather's stepbrother, he was my father's 1st cousin. It is good to be able to add a few new details to my database. Please mail mgsearch(a)fsmail.net if you wish to continue this research direct. I don't want to clog up the message boards with details that are not of benefit generally. Best wishes, Mary G
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Author: katgriffey
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
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Brings a smile to my face at the ingenuity of the Irish! By the way - I somehow posted the next round twice "duh" = sorry about that!!!
many thanks,
kathleen
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Author: mgsearch10
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Glad to be of help Kathleen, what goes around comes around, I had help when I started and always endeavour to help when I can.
Never take census ages for granted. 1851 was always rounded up or down to nearest 5 years, timing of the census in relation to birthdays can make a difference of up to 2 years on birth years, sometimes people lied about their age at time of marriage (so that they didn't have to get legal consent of their parents if under 21) or for other nefarious reasons, as you say, to get a pension. There was no civil registration in Ireland before 1864 so they used their baptism records, but a lot of parish registers went up in flames in Dublin in 1921 so there was no documented proof to rely on. When civil registration came into being, a legal deadline was introduced, if parents went over the deadline, they sometimes pretended that the baby was born later than it actually was. It was common for people not to know exactly how old they were. Claremorris never sent registers to Dublin, so they were saved. They never expect us to go looking for them.
regards, Mary G
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Author: katgriffey
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.3/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Mary - Here's something I think you would like to have. My sister, Geri, found this obit on-line. It is notice of your grandfather's step-brother James Griffin. He died in 1931. It reads as follows:
"1931
James J. Griffin died yesterday at his home, 450 St Mark's Anenue. He was born at Claremorris, County Mayo, Ireland, and lived in Brooklyn for twenty years. He was employed by Edison Co. he was a veteran of the World War and a member of the Church of St. Theresa. He is survived by his widow, Catherine Griffin; one son, James; six brothers, Michael, Patrick, Edward, Thomas, John and Peter and six sisters, Mrs Anthony Griffin, Mrs Albert McConnell, Mrs Bernard Lavin, Mrs James Feeney, Anna and Margaret Griffin. Funeral Friday, at 10:30AM with solemn requiem mass at the Church of St Teresa. Interment at St John's Cemetery under direction of Thomas F Lund, 278 Marcy Avenue."
I shared this with Michael Griffin. It's a sign of those times that the married females were identified by simply being a "MRS" males. We know Mrs Anthony Griffin is my grandmother Catherine Griffin; Mrs James Feeney is Bridget Griffin; Mrs Bernard Lavin is Ellen Griffin (the first of the Anne Clarke line children). That leaves Mary to be the Mrs Albert McConnell (I have yet to find her). Anne & Margaret are named separately so they are off the hook to be Mrs McConnell.
I know you gave Michael Griffin details of all the Clarke Griffins. I can share data I know about the Jeffers Griffins should you want to fill in any blanks.
I wonder if you know anything more about Mary Griffin (the final child of Anne Jeffers who apparently died shortly after her birth).
It would make sense that Peter Griffin relied on his eldest daughter Bridget Griffin to care for Mary until he remarried. I suspected they'd be close. When she was missing from the 1901 census (age 15-16) I checked the Feeney household. In 1901 Mary was there with her sister Bridget (Delia). In 1911 she had gone missing (married?).
I have been searching for an Albert McConnell married to a Mary. So far no luck. Michael Griffin seemed to be unable to find her too.
Thanks again for all your input on my research. You have aided me and I appreciate it very much.
Regards,
Kathleen
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Author: katgriffey
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Mary - Here's something I think you would like to have. My sister, Geri, found this obit on-line. It is notice of your grandfather's step-brother James Griffin. He died in 1931. It reads as follows:
"1931
James J. Griffin died yesterday at his home, 450 St Mark's Anenue. He was born at Claremorris, County Mayo, Ireland, and lived in Brooklyn for twenty years. He was employed by Edison Co. he was a veteran of the World War and a member of the Church of St. Theresa. He is survived by his widow, Catherine Griffin; one son, James; six brothers, Michael, Patrick, Edward, Thomas, John and Peter and six sisters, Mrs Anthony Griffin, Mrs Albert McConnell, Mrs Bernard Lavin, Mrs James Feeney, Anna and Margaret Griffin. Funeral Friday, at 10:30AM with solemn requiem mass at the Church of St Teresa. Interment at St John's Cemetery under direction of Thomas F Lund, 278 Marcy Avenue."
I shared this with Michael Griffin. It's a sign of those times that the married females were identified by simply being a "MRS" males. We know Mrs Anthony Griffin is my grandmother Catherine Griffin; Mrs James Feeney is Bridget Griffin; Mrs Bernard Lavin is Ellen Griffin (the first of the Anne Clarke line children). That leaves Mary to be the Mrs Albert McConnell (I have yet to find her). Anne & Margaret are named separately so they are off the hook to be Mrs McConnell.
I know you gave Michael Griffin details of all the Clarke Griffins. I can share data I know about the Jeffers Griffins should you want to fill in any blanks.
I wonder if you know anything more about Mary Griffin (the final child of Anne Jeffers who apparently died shortly after her birth).
It would make sense that Peter Griffin relied on his eldest daughter Bridget Griffin to care for Mary until he remarried. I suspected they'd be close. When she was missing from the 1901 census (age 15-16) I checked the Feeney household. In 1901 Mary was there with her sister Bridget (Delia). In 1911 she had gone missing (married?).
I have been searching for an Albert McConnell married to a Mary. So far no luck. Michael Griffin seemed to be unable to find her too.
Thanks again for all your input on my research. You have aided me and I appreciate it very much.
Regards,
Kathleen
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Author: katgriffey
Surnames: GRIFFIN
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Wow Mary - You researched this so well. You put things in context too setting the scene with forces driving the Irish about.
This material is pregnant with possibilities because I have wondered why my grandfather would have had "Bacup" as "last residence" on the ship record. Clearly he was there separately from this other Anthony Griffin. This one was born in Bacup three years later than my grandfather too.
You were right - the ship sailed from "Liverpool" and a number of the passengers on the manifest were listed as "English" or from "England". The passenger record clearly states my grandfather is "Irish" in the column "race or people".
The other thing is an indication that "his sister Ellen paid his fare to 499 Ocean Ave in Brooklyn NY." His age is listed "22" in this June 1905. His birth date is Oct 1881 so we are a year off but all my grandfather's census and other records say he came over in 1905.
This Bacup connection feels very right for me. There's the other fact that an Anthony Griffin was a sponsor at his baptism in Ballykinava. I presume this Bacup Anthony with an age of 50 could have been a younger brother of Mark Griffin who was age 60 in the 1901 Irish census.
He might have been an uncle/godfather to my grandfather being 30 years old in 1881? Since I can't find the birth record for Mark Griffin nor the record of his marriage, I'll never know I guess.
The other thing you've given me here is the fact a Patrick Griffin born in Galway is next door as a boarder. He could be the missing eldest brother of my grandfather. Patrick was born in 1865 in Tuam Galway according to the LDS record but I have found ages to be troublesome and clearly inaccurate in some cases with census.
For instance Mark Griffin is listed as 60 in 1901 while in 1911 he's listed as 81? That's 20 years of aging for 10 years of time. However, I did read the Irish lied about their age to obtain a pension (had to be age 70s by 1908? not sure?) Has your research turned up age inconsistencies for our relatives?
Staying on topic - I am confident I have my grandfather's passenger list and he came from Bacup. The stretch here is that I have no concrete proof that these Bacup Griffins may be linked. Nor that this Patrick is my grandfather's eldest brother but I have a hunch you may have found them for me Mary.
Some day perhaps a descendant from this line may see our posts and respond as I did to yours. I know Michael Griffin was greatly surprised that I reached out to him years after he posted a message looking for the US Jeffers line of Griffins.
I'd love to find my grandfather's sister Ellen too - she clearly was in Brooklyn in 1905. More of the puzzle is where the other girls went? We have Mary, Honoria, Julia and Kate as the missing siblings. Time will tell.
You make a fine detective in doing genealogy Mary!
Thank you so much,
Kathleen
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Author: mgsearch10
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
You probably have this already, but in case you haven't: This is the only Griffin family in Bacup 1901 that I could find with anyone born in Ireland. He matches with your Anthony born in Mayo in 1881 census for same place. They may have been the only Griffins, but there were dozens and dozens of Irish families there, including many names seen in the Claremorris area. The men were usually quarrymen, the women and young people worked in the textile mills.
1901
GRIFFIN, Anthony Head Widower F 50 1851 Navvy
b Ireland
GRIFFIN, Mary Daughter Single F 28 1873 Cotton Spinner
b Bacup Lancashire
GRIFFIN, Kate Daughter Single F 20 1881 Cotton Spinner
b Bacup Lancashire
GRIFFIN, Anthony Son Single M 18 1883 Cotton Creeler
b Bacup Lancashire
GRIFFIN, Sarah Ann Daughter F 14 1887
b Bacup Lancashire
Registration District:
Haslingden Sub District:
Bacup Municipal Borough:
Address:6, Clay Street, Bacup
County: Lancashire
As you see, all the offspring were born in England and worked in the textile mills. Bacup was obviously merely a small borough near the major centres for employment, but it was on a railway line, so would have been an easy place for immigrants to end up. If anyone emigrated from here, they would probably have taken a ship from Liverpool.
Here they are at the same address in 1911
GRIFFIN, Mary Head Single F 40 1871 Cotton Rover
b Lancs Bacup
GRIFFIN, Katie Sister Single F 30 1881 Cotton Rover
b Lancs Bacup
GRIFFIN, Anthoney Brother Single M 27 1884 Tenter Calico Print Works b Lancs Bacup
GOGGINS, Mary Leah Niece F 11 1900 School b Lancs Bacup
GOGGINS, Sarah Ann Niece F 8 1903 School b Lancs Bacup
Registration District:
Haslingden Sub District:
Bacup Enumeration District:
Address:
6 Clay St Bacup County:Lancashire
There is one more Griffin in Bacup in 1911, a Patrick, a boarder next door at No. 8, but he is said to have been born c. 1869 Co. Galway.
Next is the 1891 census for Bacup, Wife Ann was still alive,
GRIFFIN, Anthony Head Married M 40 1851 Quarryman Stone
b Ireland
GRIFFIN, Ann Wife Married F 40 1851
b Ireland
GRIFFIN, Mary Daughter Single F 20 1871 Cotton Rover
b Bacup Lancashire
GRIFFIN, Julia Daughter Single F 17 1874 Cotton Spinner
b Bacup Lancashire
GRIFFIN, Catherine Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar
b Bacup Lancashire
GRIFFIN, Anthony Son M 7 1884 Scholar
b Bacup Lancashire
GRIFFIN, Sarah A Daughter F 3 1888
b Bacup Lancashire
Registration District:
Haslingden Sub District:
15, Rose Bank Street, Newchurch, Bacup
County:Lancashire
It was very common for people to work in England even when they planned to join other family members in US eventually. In fact, it was unlikely that the places they went to in UK or US didn't have someone in the family already there, or even a family friend who would put them up for a while. There never has been a problem of moving between Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, in fact, many started their travels via Scotland which is so close that the coastlines of each can be clearly seen from the other across the short stretch of water(and very beautiful the views are in either direction too). In 19th century there was a famous sinking of a ship off the coast of Mayo, filled with young people who had been working for a season in Scotland. When they neared the coast they all rushed to the side so the ship capsized, and they drowned.
It was fairly common for Irishment to join regiments, with large families dividing and sub-dividing land with each generation,it was sometimes the only way that young men could earn a living that gave them a roof over their heads, although many of them would have strongly opposed the idea. There were, and still are, Irish regiments in the British Army. It is only in recent years that there has been a memorial in Ireland to the many Irish servicement who fought and died in WW1 and WW2. There was another influx of Irish into UK at the time of the "Troubles". After the Irish Free State was formed, the civil war between those following Michael Collins and those following Eamonn De Valera began and Ireland was a battlefield in the 1920s so many just wanted to escape the violence and poverty of those times. It was often easier for families to settle in England, or stay there for a few years then move on when they had gathered the cash together to join other members of their !
extended families, or those in the US had saved enough to send for them. Sometimes they married someone English ,as my grandfather did, so didn't want to go to US.
You also have to think of other destinations for missing rellies. Australia was becoming popular and there were incentives, grants and land. There was also a goldrush from late 1800s.
Hope you find something new in this e mail, of course, they may not be any connection, Griffin is a fairly common name.
Mary
PS The person in Washington that I helped was a Lavin descendant, by the way.
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Author: katgriffey
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Yes, I saw that you helped Janet especially with your grandfather's record I believe. Very helpful.
I have found historical info (circa early 1900s) re Bacup:
"BACUP, a market town and municipal borough in the Rossendale parliamentary division of Lancashire, England, on the river Irwell, 203 m. N.N.W. from London, and 22 N. by E. from Manchester, on the Lancashire & Yorkshire railway. Pop. (1901) 22,505. It is finely situated in a narrow valley, surrounded by wild, high-lying moorland. It is wholly of modern growth, and contains several handsome churches and other buildings, while among institutions the chief is the mechanics' institute and library. The recreation grounds presented in 1893 by Mr. J. H. Maden, M.P., are beautifully laid out. Cotton spinning and power-loom weaving are the chief of numerous manufacturing industries, and there are large collieries in the vicinity. The principle of co-operation is strongly developed, and a large and handsome store contains among other departments a free library for members. The borough was incorporated in 1882, and the corporation consists of a mayor, 6 aldermen and 17 councillors. Ar!
ea, 6120 acres. In 1841 the population of the chapelry was only 1526."
There are several Griffins in Lancashire census too.
Do you happen to know if the Irish - back in late 1800s through 1900- would join the British army/navy? The missing eldest brother Patrick seems to be total blank - just a thought - could he have enlisted?
Ireland was considered part of Britain until that uprising eventually lead to the Erie free state. Presume that meant the Irish easily traveling about(?)
Although I find Mark Griffin in Ballykinava in the 1901 Irish census, I have also found mention of several Mark and Anthony Griffins in Lancashire.
For instance, the 1881 English census mentions an Anthony Griffin age 34 born in Mayo in Haslingden. The 1851 English census mentions an Anthony Griffin age 60 living in Liverpool but born in Ireland.
An Anthony Griffin was sponsor at my grandfather Anthony's baptism. This family seemed to have bounced around quite a bit before they hit Ballykinava so that's why I think they had migrant tendencies.
However, would they go some place where they had no family connections? Clearly I speculate that Anthony's pre USA location of Bacup may mean family or Irish connections there in England. Do you think it feasible?
Making guesses for the years between 1901 census where Anthony is with Mark & Ellen and the fact he emigrated 1905 from Bacup, Lancashire (but is listed as Irish). It could be that he'd leave when older brother Mark came back to take the farm.
With a sister already in USA why go to Bacup? Remarks in passenger indicates Ellen sent the money for his passage but perhaps he was trying to earn money in England to get to USA during the period 1901-1905?
This may be a red herring looking for English connections but this Ballykinava Griffin family is very puzzling.
My elder cousin, Helen McNally,(her mother was Catherine's daughter Catherine) knew family history. I asked Helen if grandfather had English connections. Answer, the only thing her mother ever said is, "We don't speak of the English."
Growing up grandmother Catherine stayed connected to her brothers Michael & James. Her sister Bridget "Delia" & step sister Ellen "Nellie" too because they often spoke of the Lavins and the Feeneys. But no mention of grandfather's Griffin family except for a cousin, "Mary E" (daughter of Mark?). She was the last one left "over there". It's so very odd.
Thank you for your advice. I enjoy collaborating with you.
Regards,
Kathleen
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Author: mgsearch10
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Hi, I already had most of my information before Jan started doing her transcriptions, and sometimes helped her out with corrections when she couldn't read things as I already had the references in my database.
Griffins and Clarkes were obviously well known to each other long before the Peter and Ann marriage, but these things were often brokered by members of the family, which is why distant cousins sometimes married to keep the landholding "in the family". Sometimes you see widowers with loads of kids marrying within months of the first wife's death so it seems there were often marriages of convenience rather than passion! The fella got a replacement housekeeper and bedmate, the woman's brothers got rid of an unmarried liability.
Naming patterns: It was expected practice to name the first child for a grandfather, maybe the second after the maternal grandfather, then the 2nd or 3rd after the father of the child, then the names of various uncles. This wasn't just an Irish pattern, it was the same in England at that time. My own Clarkes follwed the rule in early 20th c. Same went for daughters, using grandmothers' names. And of course, it was compulsory to have a Mary in a Catholic family. This is often helpful in identifying strays of a family, but life gets complicated when there's a large number of sons ALL of whom name first son after the grandfather, so often all the cousins have the same names.
It was very common for people to go to England for work before moving on to US. Sometimes they flitted back and forth, working the family farms in Summer, doing navvy work in UK in winter. There was a huge influx of Irish from 1850s onwards, partly because of the famine, partly because of the industrialisation of the north of England and West Midlands, railways, cotton mills, shipyards, docks for imports from Africa etc. In some English and Scottish towns the majority in some areas were Irish. It seems that my grandfather did this and did not settle in England finally until his parents died when he married an English girl. The story goes that a brother was over here too at some stage, and they said their goodbyes on the quayside when the elder brother went to US. Unfotunately, with such a common name, and the fact that sometimes they were registered as Clary or Cleary rather than Clarke, Ellis records haven't been much help. I've never heard of "Bacup" (my UK geogra!
phy knowledge is pretty good)and suspect that it may be a mistranscription, there certainly is no port of that name. Will have to ponder that one.
Stay in touch, Mary
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Off topic abit..but this has been the greatest dialogue between people
helping each other through this "hunt". And the history lesson is
wonderful. I appreciate the graciousness. I wish my Clark's would surface.
I have a Clark and a Clarke from different sides of my family, but I
wouldn't have missed this conversation about Bacup, the Irish and the
connections. Thank you., Mary and Sue and the rest who chime in. Sally
----- Original Message -----
From: <gc-gateway(a)rootsweb.com>
To: <CLARKE-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [CLARKE] Clarke/Costello
> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
>
> Author: katgriffey
> Surnames:
> Classification: queries
>
> Message Board URL:
>
> http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
>
> Message Board Post:
>
> Yes, I saw that you helped Janet especially with your grandfather's record
> I believe. Very helpful.
>
> I have found historical info (circa early 1900s) re Bacup:
>
> "BACUP, a market town and municipal borough in the Rossendale
> parliamentary division of Lancashire, England, on the river Irwell, 203 m.
> N.N.W. from London, and 22 N. by E. from Manchester, on the Lancashire &
> Yorkshire railway. Pop. (1901) 22,505. It is finely situated in a narrow
> valley, surrounded by wild, high-lying moorland. It is wholly of modern
> growth, and contains several handsome churches and other buildings, while
> among institutions the chief is the mechanics' institute and library. The
> recreation grounds presented in 1893 by Mr. J. H. Maden, M.P., are
> beautifully laid out. Cotton spinning and power-loom weaving are the chief
> of numerous manufacturing industries, and there are large collieries in
> the vicinity. The principle of co-operation is strongly developed, and a
> large and handsome store contains among other departments a free library
> for members. The borough was incorporated in 1882, and the corporation
> consists of a mayor, 6 aldermen and 17 councillors. Ar!
> ea, 6120 acres. In 1841 the population of the chapelry was only 1526."
>
> There are several Griffins in Lancashire census too.
>
> Do you happen to know if the Irish - back in late 1800s through 1900-
> would join the British army/navy? The missing eldest brother Patrick seems
> to be total blank - just a thought - could he have enlisted?
>
> Ireland was considered part of Britain until that uprising eventually lead
> to the Erie free state. Presume that meant the Irish easily traveling
> about(?)
>
> Although I find Mark Griffin in Ballykinava in the 1901 Irish census, I
> have also found mention of several Mark and Anthony Griffins in
> Lancashire.
>
> For instance, the 1881 English census mentions an Anthony Griffin age 34
> born in Mayo in Haslingden. The 1851 English census mentions an Anthony
> Griffin age 60 living in Liverpool but born in Ireland.
>
> An Anthony Griffin was sponsor at my grandfather Anthony's baptism. This
> family seemed to have bounced around quite a bit before they hit
> Ballykinava so that's why I think they had migrant tendencies.
>
> However, would they go some place where they had no family connections?
> Clearly I speculate that Anthony's pre USA location of Bacup may mean
> family or Irish connections there in England. Do you think it feasible?
>
> Making guesses for the years between 1901 census where Anthony is with
> Mark & Ellen and the fact he emigrated 1905 from Bacup, Lancashire (but is
> listed as Irish). It could be that he'd leave when older brother Mark
> came back to take the farm.
>
> With a sister already in USA why go to Bacup? Remarks in passenger
> indicates Ellen sent the money for his passage but perhaps he was trying
> to earn money in England to get to USA during the period 1901-1905?
>
> This may be a red herring looking for English connections but this
> Ballykinava Griffin family is very puzzling.
>
> My elder cousin, Helen McNally,(her mother was Catherine's daughter
> Catherine) knew family history. I asked Helen if grandfather had English
> connections. Answer, the only thing her mother ever said is, "We don't
> speak of the English."
>
> Growing up grandmother Catherine stayed connected to her brothers Michael
> & James. Her sister Bridget "Delia" & step sister Ellen "Nellie" too
> because they often spoke of the Lavins and the Feeneys. But no mention of
> grandfather's Griffin family except for a cousin, "Mary E" (daughter of
> Mark?). She was the last one left "over there". It's so very odd.
>
> Thank you for your advice. I enjoy collaborating with you.
>
> Regards,
> Kathleen
>
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Author: katgriffey
Surnames:
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Mary - More data to digest here. Thank you for you information. I guess you used Jan's lists - I have seen them. I truly enjoyed her jokes at the start of each transcription.
Most of my data re the Ballykinava Griffins is from LDS (Latter Day Saints/Mormon) records. They offer their info free and I understand Mormons own "Ancestry.com".
A few years ago I search online and found and sent for my grandparents (Catherine's) marriage record from NYC. From it I learned the names of both their parents. Without that link I'd have nothing.
It stated my grandfather was from Ballykinava and his father was Mark Griffin. His mother was Ellen Hession. The LDS records helped me flesh out the fact that family records started in Tuam Galway. The first son, Patrick, was born there as was the second son, Mark.
I wonder if you've noticed the first son never seems to be the "junior" namesake? It seems to be the second...? I have seen this more than once as I research.
Nevertheless the family seemed to be moving along the road up into Mayo. The daughters were all born along the way in Hollymount (Mary & Honoria), Ballindine (Julia & Ellen), Cloonamike Kate (= probably a transcription error = no such place exists) - finally my grandfather Anthony in Ballykinava.
In the 1901 census there are two families of Stanton in Ballykinava. I focused on the one of John Stanton. He had a wife Ellen. He married Ellen Clarke. I figured Ellen may have played a role in having Peter Griffin of Gorteenmore marry her sister Anne Clarke when Anne Jeffers died.
The Stanton children in the census are Michael, Patrick, Kate and then Brdgit, John Ellen and Thomas Joseph.
I had reasoned that this Ballykinava Patrick Stauton being close in age to Anthony = they may have been close enough for that Patrick to be the witness at the US marriage of Catherine and Anthony.
Catherine's passenger record indicates that her & Kate were on their way to a Mary Stanton in 1902. Mary must have left for the USA before the 1901 census.
I note another person you mention - a Celia "Nally" is a neighbor. She is also mentioned in baptisms.
Have you ever used the Ellis Island records to trace the passage to America? They have a wonderful on-line database and like LDS it is also free.
I wish I could find out what happened to the Ballykinava Griffins. I see that Mark took the farm in 1911 and his father Mark is there without Ellen who must have died along the way.
I do not know about the others. Grandpa Anthony's passenger record shows he was coming here to his sister Ellen. She must have emigrated before him. But I have no clue as to the other siblings.
One thing curious, the departure place for Anthony's trip to the USA in 1905 was "Bacup" - in the UK. I wonder if some of the family may have gone there and Anthony went to work in the UK?
Thanks again for all your data. It is very helpful to share data with you Mary.
All the best,
Kathleen
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Author: mgsearch10
Surnames: Clarke/Costello/Staunton/Barnicle/Griffin
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Ah now, there's a complicted weave with the Barnicles/Barnicals and Stauntons. There's a Barnicle who was my grandfather's godfather,no doubt related,but I haven't discovered exactly how, although there was an early Barnicle Clarke marriage in the register, and a Staunton married my great aunt Ellen Clarke. I've quite a bit on that particular group which was definitely a family shown in the 1901 census. There was a Catherine Staunton born 1882, daughter of John Staunton of Ballykinava and Ellen Clarke, godparents were Peter Griffin and Catherine Clarke, and I have a note that she definitely emigrated to US. She would have been my father's first cousin. She had a brother Patrick b. 1879. My grandfather Edward Clarke was godfather to another of the Stauntons, various other Clarkes were godparents to others, and so was a Michael Griffin. I also have a William Gibbons who married an Ellen Boyle in US - the Boyles of Kiltimagh and Ballinastanford were connected to the C!
ostello family, so there's a distant link to the Griffins via Ann Clarke (2nd wife) There's also a "Nally" in there somewhere too as a godparent to Stanton. (One of my grandmothers was a McNally, but from another part of Ireland, probably Co. Down. The cousins you mention as heading for Mary Stanton's address - they had a sister Mary in Ballykinava ..... inevitably no family could be without one : o )
I don't know anything about Ballykinava Griffins, but of course, they are not my direct line so I hadn't checked them out. There were Griffins in Ballyhaunis but I don't know if there was any relationship. Strangely, I knew a priest called Michael Griffin a few years ago whose family came from there, but I didn't find that out until he left his parish. Coincidentally he had found out that he was related distantly to one of his parishioners, whose son was an acquaintance of my youngest.
There is now a website that has transcriptions of the registers for Claremorris done by Jan Seberg - I daresay you could find it by googling although I will have a look for URL. All my research had been done the hard way, but it's worth having a look for possible connections. I know from the microfiche in Dublin that a lot of it was very hard to read so there's a bit of guesswork in those transcriptions.
I'm glad the NJ Michael Griffin acknowledged to you that he had received the documents I sent in late 1990s. Now I know for sure that they were shared with some of the US families as I had hoped. If he didn't pass on precise details of baptisms etc., I'll let you have what I can. I also helped a family member in Washington a few years ago who was descended from Ellen Griffin. Of course, there were Clarkes in NJ too. Best wishes. Mary
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Author: katgriffey
Surnames: GRIFFIN BARNICLE STANTON JEFFERS MCNALLY
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Mary - Thank you so much for responding. I have seen your posts - became aware of our mutual connection through common ancestor Peter Griffin. You were trying to trace the Halligans at that time.
Re Michael Griffin - I am sure he meant to thank you. He acknowledged your major contribution in sharing what he had with me. He claimed he had lost touch with you. At the time he was trying to trace the Jeffers' Griffins in USA.
Ironically, my sister in California found his post on the net and told me. Crazy at it might seem I lived for many years in NJ (same town) right down the road from him on the same street. By the time I found out, I had moved to Virginia.
I have made contact with him and met his Griffin family members at a celebration of his mother's 80th birthday. As for Jeffers' side he has only met me, my sons, and my cousin Helen who is another grandchild of Catherine Griffin (half sister to Ellen).
I have two old photos of Catherine Griffin (my grandmother). One with her new husband, Anthony Griffin, and another of her as a young woman given to us by my now deceased Aunt Mary.
My cousin Helen McNally has some additional photos of the family and I hope to get copies.
I have discovered that Catherine came to New York arriving May 1, 1902 age 18 via a ship named the "Majestic" departing from Queenstown. She traveled with Kate Barnicle and Kate Stanton. The notation indicated the two Kates were cousins. The Kates were headed to Kate Stanton's sister Mary in NYC while Kate Barnacle was headed to Brooklyn to her Uncle Martin Gibbons. (The name was hard to read and that's what I "think" is says.) The Kates were going to Mary Stanton at 15 West 85 Street NYC. (Again hard to read but apparently they went to Manhattan and not Brooklyn initially).
Do you know anything about how Kate Griffin (my grandmother Catherine) was a cousin to Mary and Kate Stanton? I also think I saw the name Barnicle as a sponsor to some Griffin birth. Are you aware how they connect to Griffins?
A Patrick Stanton was witness to the 1909 wedding of Catherine to Anthony Griffin. My father used to say his mother and father were distant cousins but I can find no connection. Perhaps it was through the Stantons?
I note Stantons lived in Ballykinava where my grandfather Anthony was in 1901 Irish census along with his father Mark, mother Ellen and sister Kate. Do you have any records of the Ballykinava Griffins?
Thank you for your input - it helps.
All the best,
Kathleen
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Author: mgsearch10
Surnames: Clarke/Costello/Griffin/
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/99.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Hello Kathleen, yes I did have contact with Michael Griffin about 12 years ago when I wrote to him with a lot of detailed information about the Claremorris families that he did not previously have, but unfortunately, although I know he received it because I have seen he posted these details elsewhere, he never had the courtesy to write a reply or acknowledge receipt of the parcel I sent him.
You may or may not know that the Jeffers came from Tawnylough.I have your Catherine's baptism in my database, and the baptisms of her siblings, but no further details for the next generation. My impression was that all of this family probably went to US at some time or other (that information came from a second cousin, May o'Brien, a grandaughter of Peter Griffin and Ann Clarke) Some of the Clarke cousins of your grandmother also went to US, with Patrick Clarke staying at home to keep the farmstead. My grandfather Edward Clarke went to England. Let me know if I can help you further. I have one old photograph of Ellen Griffin a half sister in your line, but sadley no others. Best wishes, Mary
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Author: dashlewis
Surnames: Ashley, Clarke
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/2889/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Trying to find information on Erwin Linly Clarke b.28 Mar 1887 in MA, USA. He had a son Linly E. Clarke b. 15 Oct 1915 in RI, USA. Their trail seems to stop around 1915. Linly's mother is listed as Sabra Clarke. After 1915 I find a Erwin Linly Ashley and son Linly E. Ashley with the same birth dates.
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Author: clarkero379
Surnames: Clarke, Reynolds, Fawls, Idiens, Gillett, Edgington, Nash, Munslow,
Classification: queries
Message Board URL:
http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.clarke/2888/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Looking for information on the Richard Clarke family that immigrated from IReland ca. 1864 to Canada with evental stop in Toronto
Richard did not make the trip but his wife Ellen Reynolds Clarke did with 7 kids in tow one eventually to become the Mayor of Toronto in 1888 Edward Frederick Clarke and later MPP and MP to west Toronto
Very extensive family throughout Ontario but trying to track peripherals in Walkerton area, Toronto and of course any info on family in Ireland and exact immigration date to Canada
Any help appreciated; If any one wants info on the fmaily in Canada, I have most of it.
Researching: Clarke, Reynolds, Fawls, Idiens, Gillett, Edgington, Nash, Munslow,
Roger Clarke
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