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For Brenda regarding Claiborne. My Claiborne line ended with Jane who
married Thomas Brereton and Mary (if indeed her name was Claiborne and if
indeed she did marry Robert Harris, ends there and begins my Harris line.)
Thanks Clare
Sorry, but the only information I possess about Jane Claiborne and Thomas
Brereton is that which I quoted in an earlier posting. You may want to find
the land patent referred to for more specific information.
In a message dated 3/24/01 6:26:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,
KappaHall(a)aol.com writes:
> Would you be kind enough to forward to me your information on the marriage
> of
> Jane Claiborne (1610 - 1680) to Thomas Brereton (1600 - 1676) about 1635.
> I
> am a direct descendent. The name of Brereton has continued in my family
> down
> through the years to my brother, Brereton C. Jones. He was the Gov. of KY
> from 1991 - 1995.
>
> Thanks in advance for any information you can send me.
The articles of Clayton Torrence are considered the definitive source on
William Claiborne for one reason and one reason only -- he CLEARLY documents
his research, citing irrefutable proof sources as evidence of his findings
and conclusions.
In a message dated 3/24/01 6:32:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gcooper(a)lexcominc.net writes:
> Why is the word of Torrence the gospel?
> Is he beyond reproach ?
>
It is not my intention to pick a fight. Personally, as I descend from
William and Elizabeth (Butler) Claiborne's son Thomas, it matters little to
me whether or not William and Elizabeth (Butler) Claiborne had a daughter
Mary that married (1) ??? Rice and (2) Robert Harris. Nonetheless, I find it
difficult to accept unproven and unaccepted (by modern authorities)
genealogies simply because a family genealogy written in the early-1900s,
makes such a statement.
Specifically, W.H. Miller, HISTORY AND GENEALOGY, 1907, which you referenced,
states:
"Major Robert Harris was a member of the Virginia House of Burgesses from
Hanover County, 1736-1738, 1740-1742, and Justice of the Peace of Louisa
County in 1742, and Surveyor in 1744.
"His wife, Mary Rice nee Claiborne, was a daughter of Secretary William
Claiborne who came to Virginia with George Wyant in 1621. William Claiborne
was born in 1587, and died in 1676, he married Elizabeth Butler. He was
secretary of state in Virginia in 1625-1635, 1652-1660, treasurer in
1642-1660. Surveyor Gentry in 1621-1625. He was a Justice of the Peace of
York and Northumberland in 1653. Member of the Council in 1623. In 1629 he
commanded an expedition against the indians; again in 1644, he did the same.
In the Northampton records, April 1653, is an order referring to the
worshipful Colonel William Claiborne Esq. Deputy Governor. "Temperance
Overton, (the wife of William Harris) came to this country with three
brothers and settled in Virginia. She was a daughter of William Overton, and
Mary Waters, William Overton was a Colonel under Oliver Cromwell, and
commanded one wing of the army at the battle of Dunbar; for some cause he was
cast into the Tower of London by Cromwell, and died there."
Article 2.--One Robert Harris of Wales, (1630-1700) about 1650, married Mrs.
Rice, whose maiden name was Claibourne, daughter of Secretary William
Claiborne, to whom was born, in 1752, a son, William Harris.
They came to America, and settled in the Colony of Virginia, on the James
River, near Weyanoke. The said William Harris, married Temperance Overton, a
daughter of a wealthy tobacco grower, William Overton, and Mary Walters, his
wife. The said William Overton, was a son of Colonel (???) Overton, who
commanded a Brigade of Iron sides under Oliver Cromwell."
Nowhere does W.H. Miller cite his source documentation or otherwise prove his
statements. In fact, some of the information he writes about William
Claiborne ("William Claiborne was born in 1587 . . . .") leads one to believe
W.H. Miller was using as his source documentation disproven genealogical
information pertaining to William Claiborne. [Typically, those genealogies
list William, b. 1587, as the son of Edmund and Grace (Bellingham) Cleburne
of Westmoreland. It has been proven William Claiborne was the son of Thomas
and Sara (Smyth) Cleyborne of Crayford Parish, Kent, England, where he
(William) was baptized August 10, 1600.]
I apologize to those who are convinced William and Elizabeth (Butler)
Claiborne had a daughter Mary who married (2) Robert Harris, but there exists
no proof or credible evidence that this is, in fact, the case. However,
those of you so convinced can choose to use any source you desire.
In a message dated 3/24/01 6:11:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gcooper(a)lexcominc.net writes:
> There has been much skepticism as to who Robert Harris of New Kent County
> married; however, early genealogists and family records seem to have
> independently arrived at the same conclusions. The first printed information
> contained the statement: "One Robert Harris of Wales (1630-1700), about
> 1650,
> married Mrs. Rice, whose maiden name was Claiborne, daughter of Secretary
> William
> Claiborne, to whom was born, a son William Harris." This was written in
> 1907 by
> William H. Miller in his History and Genealogies. 9 The wife of William
> Claiborne
> was Elizabeth Butler.
>
> Other writers seem to have independently arrived at the same information,
> adding that Mary
> Claiborne Rice was the widow of Edward Rice and that Robert later settled
> in the
> Forks area of Hanover
> County. 10 His son, William born in 1665, married Temperance Overton, born
> 1679,
> the daughter of William
> Overton. 11
>
> Confirmation of the fact that William Claiborne had a daughter named Mary
> has
> not been found in the records, but it is known that he had two daughters.
> One was
> Jane, who married Thomas Brereton, and is well documented in the records of
> that
> time. 12 Another daughter, not named, was referred to in a request by
> William
> Claiborne to have Samuel Smith, as guardian of his two daughters, collect
> debts
> owed William for them (1648). 13 A later land patent, of 1668, in New Kent
> County, named Mrs. Elizabeth Claiborne, Jr..
>
>
>
> & On a July night in 1787, the clerk's office of New Kent County was burned
> and
> all of the records of the county were destroyed. The fire the result of
> arson and
> the person was apprehended, tried, convicted and hanged. The records were
> lost to
> posterity however.
> Some take this to be the name of the other daughter. It was also the name
> of the
> wife of William Claiborne, Jr. (II). '4
>
> Scttfoster(a)aol.com wrote:
>
> > Gary ---
> >
> > What is the preponderance of evidence to which you refer? While I have
> seen
> > a number of genealogies which mention the marriage of Robert Harris to
> widow
> > Mary Rice, daughter of William Claiborne, I have seen no credible source
> > documentation to support these claims.
> >
> > --- Scott
> >
> > In a message dated 3/24/01 4:56:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > gcooper(a)lexcominc.net writes:
> >
> > > This is my line as well, however, to my knowledge there is no proof...
> Only
> > > the
> > > pre-
> > > ponderance of evidence. The Jamestowne Soc. will not acknowldege this.
> > > Gary
> > >
> > > Tiafind(a)aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > Does anyone know if there is proof that Mary Claiborne Rice b. ca
> 1635 m.
> > > rca
> > > > 1650 Robert Harris .in VA was indeed the dau of William Claiborne and
> his
> > > > wife Elizabeth Butler? I keep seeing this but can't seem to find the
> > > proof.
> > > > I also have Jane Claiborne married to thomas Brereton, which there
> does
> > > seem
> > > > to be more proof. Thanks Clare
>
Would you be kind enough to forward to me your information on the marriage of
Jane Claiborne (1610 - 1680) to Thomas Brereton (1600 - 1676) about 1635. I
am a direct descendent. The name of Brereton has continued in my family down
through the years to my brother, Brereton C. Jones. He was the Gov. of KY
from 1991 - 1995.
Thanks in advance for any information you can send me.
Bartow Ned Jones
Clare ---
The definitive source of information pertaining to William Claiborne, his
ancestors and his family is Clayton Torrence's two part article "The English
Ancestry of William Claiborne of Virginia" appearing the VIRGINIA MAGAZINE OF
HISTORY AND BIOGRAPHY. There is no mention of a daughter Mary nor mention of
a Robert Harris. Torrence writes:
"That the aforesaid William, Thomas, Leonard, John and Jane Claiborne (Mrs.
Thomas Brereton) were children of the Honorable William Claiborne (1600-circa
1677/8) is established fact, the evidence for each child being stated above.
That the mother of these five children was Elizabeth Butler is established by
the fact that we in note 45 established the fact that the Honorable William
Claiborne (1600-circa 1677/8) had only the one wife, whom we have proved to
have been Elizabeth Butler.
"There is no evidence that the Honorable William Claiborne (1600-circa
1677/8) and his wife Elizabeth Butler had other children (at least who
survived infancy or childhood) than William, Thomas, Leonard, John and Jane,
named above."
Regarding the references to Jane Claiborne being the daughter of William and
marrying Thomas Brereton, Torrence writes:
"William Claiborne and Elizabeth Butler, his wife, had issue:
"(1) William Claiborne, . . .
"(2) Thomas Claiborne, . . .
"(3) Leonard Claiboren, . . .
"(4) John Claiborne, . . .
"(5) Jane Claiborne; the dates of her birth and death are unknown; she
married prior to May 1661 Colonel Thomas Brereton, of Northumberland County.
Evidence that Mrs. Jane (Claiborne) Brereton was daughter of Honorable
William Claiborne (1600-circa 1677/8) lies primarily in a patent granted to
Captain John Witty for 1,450 acres in Northumberland County, May 15, 1661;
the land formerly granted February 10, 1657, to Jane Claiborne, the daughter
of Colonel William Claiborne, and now assigned unto said Whitty by Colonel
William Claiborne, Captain William Claiborne and Thomas Brereton, who married
the said Jane Claiborne (Virginia Land Patents, Patent Book No. 4, page 474,
quoted in Nugent, Cavaliers and Pioneers: Abstracts of Virginia Land Patents
and Grants, 1623-1800, Volume I, page 409)."
Hope this helps.
--- Scott Foster
In a message dated 3/24/01 1:26:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, Tiafind(a)aol.com
writes:
> Does anyone know if there is proof that Mary Claiborne Rice b. ca 1635 m.
> rca
> 1650 Robert Harris .in VA was indeed the dau of William Claiborne and his
> wife Elizabeth Butler? I keep seeing this but can't seem to find the
> proof.
> I also have Jane Claiborne married to thomas Brereton, which there does
> seem
> to be more proof. Thanks Clare
>
There has been much skepticism as to who Robert Harris of New Kent County
married; however, early genealogists and family records seem to have
independently arrived at the same conclusions. The first printed information
contained the statement: "One Robert Harris of Wales (1630-1700), about 1650,
married Mrs. Rice, whose maiden name was Claiborne, daughter of Secretary William
Claiborne, to whom was born, a son William Harris." This was written in 1907 by
William H. Miller in his History and Genealogies. 9 The wife of William Claiborne
was Elizabeth Butler.
Other writers seem to have independently arrived at the same information,
adding that Mary
Claiborne Rice was the widow of Edward Rice and that Robert later settled in the
Forks area of Hanover
County. 10 His son, William born in 1665, married Temperance Overton, born 1679,
the daughter of William
Overton. 11
Confirmation of the fact that William Claiborne had a daughter named Mary has
not been found in the records, but it is known that he had two daughters. One was
Jane, who married Thomas Brereton, and is well documented in the records of that
time. 12 Another daughter, not named, was referred to in a request by William
Claiborne to have Samuel Smith, as guardian of his two daughters, collect debts
owed William for them (1648). 13 A later land patent, of 1668, in New Kent
County, named Mrs. Elizabeth Claiborne, Jr..
& On a July night in 1787, the clerk's office of New Kent County was burned and
all of the records of the county were destroyed. The fire the result of arson and
the person was apprehended, tried, convicted and hanged. The records were lost to
posterity however.
Some take this to be the name of the other daughter. It was also the name of the
wife of William Claiborne, Jr. (II). '4
Scttfoster(a)aol.com wrote:
> Gary ---
>
> What is the preponderance of evidence to which you refer? While I have seen
> a number of genealogies which mention the marriage of Robert Harris to widow
> Mary Rice, daughter of William Claiborne, I have seen no credible source
> documentation to support these claims.
>
> --- Scott
>
> In a message dated 3/24/01 4:56:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> gcooper(a)lexcominc.net writes:
>
> > This is my line as well, however, to my knowledge there is no proof... Only
> > the
> > pre-
> > ponderance of evidence. The Jamestowne Soc. will not acknowldege this.
> > Gary
> >
> > Tiafind(a)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > Does anyone know if there is proof that Mary Claiborne Rice b. ca 1635 m.
> > rca
> > > 1650 Robert Harris .in VA was indeed the dau of William Claiborne and his
> > > wife Elizabeth Butler? I keep seeing this but can't seem to find the
> > proof.
> > > I also have Jane Claiborne married to thomas Brereton, which there does
> > seem
> > > to be more proof. Thanks Clare
>
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Gary ---
What is the preponderance of evidence to which you refer? While I have seen
a number of genealogies which mention the marriage of Robert Harris to widow
Mary Rice, daughter of William Claiborne, I have seen no credible source
documentation to support these claims.
--- Scott
In a message dated 3/24/01 4:56:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gcooper(a)lexcominc.net writes:
> This is my line as well, however, to my knowledge there is no proof... Only
> the
> pre-
> ponderance of evidence. The Jamestowne Soc. will not acknowldege this.
> Gary
>
> Tiafind(a)aol.com wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know if there is proof that Mary Claiborne Rice b. ca 1635 m.
> rca
> > 1650 Robert Harris .in VA was indeed the dau of William Claiborne and his
> > wife Elizabeth Butler? I keep seeing this but can't seem to find the
> proof.
> > I also have Jane Claiborne married to thomas Brereton, which there does
> seem
> > to be more proof. Thanks Clare
Gary & Claire
Do either of you have any Claiborne's that ended up in Smith Co. Tennessee?
I'm searching for info on Clarie Divine Claiborne 1859-1932.
Will gladly share info.
Thanks
Brenda Knight
Nashville, Tn.
Does anyone know if there is proof that Mary Claiborne Rice b. ca 1635 m. rca
1650 Robert Harris .in VA was indeed the dau of William Claiborne and his
wife Elizabeth Butler? I keep seeing this but can't seem to find the proof.
I also have Jane Claiborne married to thomas Brereton, which there does seem
to be more proof. Thanks Clare
HI,
I have another Cook(e) - Claiborne marriage I'm researching:
Robert Claiborne (no dates or parents) married Sarah (Sally) Cook(e) d/o John & 1st wife Cook(e). Based on the disbursement of Sarah's father's estate (John Cook(e) died intestate about 1802-3 in Halifax Co. VA), she was dec'd before her father's death. Her husband, Robert Claiborne is named in the disbursement of his father-in-law's estate ... although no children are named for their marriage in the information I have available.
Is Robert Claiborne related to Richard Claiborne who married Mary Cook(e), sister of Sarah (Sally)? If so, how? Brothers? Cousins?
Thanks to anyone who can help me sort these Claibornes out who married into the Cook(e) line.
Be well & God bless,
Kate Beaugrand Cook
Minnesota
kbcook(a)cfaith.com
or
k.b.cook(a)worldnet.att.net
Hello all,
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CLAIBORNE list manager
Hi,
I'm new to this list and I'm looking for information about the Richard Claiborne who married Mary Cook July 04, 1786 in Lunenburg Co., Virginia. They had 2 known (to me) children -- John Leonard Claiborne & Elizabeth Hillary Claiborne, but I have no dates for these children.
I have no information about this Richard Claiborne's background ... his birth & death dates are unknown to me and anything about his ancestry. I also wonder if this couple had more children than I'm aware of. Did they stay in Lunenburg Co.? Were they in the part of Lunenburg Co. that became Halifax Co.? Most of Mary's family (the younger step-siblings) were married in Halifax Co., which leads me to believe they were in the part that changed county names. I also suspect that Richard may have some relationship with Leonard (whose name I keep seeing) since he named his son Leonard. Mary's father was John Cook, but I don't know the name of her mother.
I'll be happy to exchange information with anyone who is researching this line. Looking forward to hearing back soon.
Be well & God bless,
Kate Beaugrand Cook
Minnesota
kbcook(a)cfaith.com
or
k.b.cook(a)worldnet.att.net