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All,
Recently I have come across information from sources in England that has
changed my view on the possible marriage of Eliezer2 Churchill of
Plymouth to Mary Bryant.
We know from primary Plymouth records that William2 Churchill of
Plymouth married on 17 Jan 1683 at Plymouth Lydia Bryant, daughter of
Steven and Abigail (Shaw) Bryant.
It has been long speculated that Eliezer Churchill married Mary Bryant a
sister of Lydia. What we actually know about Eliezer’s wife is as
follows:
The wife of Eleazer died Dec. 11, 1715 at age 60 years according to her
grave stone (#1661) at Burial Hill, Plymouth which is inscribed "Here
lyes ye body of Mrs. Mary Churchell wife to Mr. Eleazar Churchell aged
60 deces'd Decr ye 11th 1715."
There is also a primary Plymouth Vital Record:
"Mary Churchill The Wife of Eliazar Churchill Deceased Desember 11th
1715"
She being Mary Bryant is reported by various secondary sources such as
Torry. However, over the years various studies have been conducted with
no primary evidence discovered to prove that Eliezer’s wife was Mary
Bryant.
From sources in England, I have recently learned a fact that precludes
Mary Bryant from being Eliezer’s wife. The argument that she was Mary
Bryant centers around the fact that William Churchill, Eliezer’s
brother, married Lydia Bryant – and failing any record of Mary Bryant’s
death or who and if Mary Bryant married, it was reasonable to speculate
that Eliezer’s wife was this Mary Bryant.
However, it turns out that prior to 1835, in England and her Colonies,
one could not marry a sibling of a sibling’s spouse. The Church of
England viewed a man and wife “of one flesh.” Thus, one’s wife’s sister
was your sister and “of your flesh.” The marriage of a brother and
sister was prohibited. The fact that we know William Churchill married
Lydia Bryant tells us that Eliezer did not marry Lydia Bryant’s sister
Mary.
Such a marriage was quite risky. If Eliezer had married Mary Bryant in
1675 then William would never have married Lydia Bryant in 1683. Such a
marriage was non existent. Children were bastardized and, thus, made
ineligible to inherit tenure. This means that William would not have
been able to pass his holdings in land to his children and their rights
to hold would have terminated or his land would have passed allied
relatives. We know that William’s land did pass to his children.
By way of understanding this, prior to the land reforms of the 20th
century, all land in England and her colonies was owned by the Crown.
It was given out to landholders under tenure agreement. Today we “own”
land under a perpetual “hold” as it were. But in the 17th century land
tenure had a term that was generally for life and renewable. (This was
only true for freehold. Copyhold had no right of continuance.) Normally
under tenure, freehold land passed from father to sons, and failing a
surviving or suitable son, to daughters. While a bastard had certain
rights he could not inherit a freehold. That is to say he was ranked
below all legitimate relatives. Thus, it would have been quite
dangerous for William to marry outside Church law. The fact that
William married Lydia means that Eliezer’s wife was not Mary Bryant.
Bill Churchill
dw,
No idea.
According to CFA Josiah and Elizabeth Churchill’s male children were
Joseph and Benjamin and a third son who was born after Benjamin and died
an unnamed infant. I believe this agrees with Malcolm Churchill’s
information.
Did you ask Malcolm about these individuals? Possibly he would know.
I don’t know of a Henry in this time frame from the Connecticut group.
I have extensive listings of 17th century English families. Henry was
not a name used by English Churchills until after Henry VIII’s time.
This may have been due to the early Churchill’s “king Henry I problem.”
My understanding is that before Henry VIII’s time Churchills did not use
Henry.
In Henry VIII’s time both the OXON and Colliton Churchills of Dorset
were allowed, freeholds “of the king” and probably other offices in turn
for favors. After Henry’s reign the OXON line and one unrelated
Colliton family began using Henry. However, in Dorset only one line used
Henry and that use extended into the late 18th century. However, Henry
became quite popular in OXON lines and by the 17th century there were a
good number.
At least 2 OXON Henries came to the Virginia Colony in the 17th century.
One was a free holder. His nephew, Henry, disappears from Virginia
records after his uncle’s death circa 1650. What happened to this Henry
is not known.
George was a quite common name in 17th century English Churchill
families. Like Darrel and his brother Darrel, almost every 17th century
Churchill family had at least one George. So the name George is no help
in regard to identifying a family group.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: dwchurchill [mailto:dwchurch@shaw.ca]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 12:31 AM
To: Al Braley
Cc: churchil(a)koyote.com
Subject: new churchill
Hi Al and Bill:
Through extensive surfing the internet, thought I had found every
Churchill ever recorded.
So was stunned yesterday upon finding the following entry:
"Wethersfield Town Records - birth, marriages, Deaths A-F"
"The following families are extracted from New England Historical &
Genealogical Register, Vol 15, July 1861, p 241 & subsequent, RECORDS OF
WETHERSFIELD, CONNECTICUT, R.R. Hinman."
This entry:
"CHURCHEL, R. Georg, sonne of Churchel & of Marget his wife was born 14
Mar 1653"
Where oh where did this come from? Where has it been hiding? Why was
it missed???? Tried followup of all usual internet sources, could find
nothing else on above Churchill or parents????
I have not seen one other single reference ANYWHERE to above
Churchills. Have either of you???
The children of settler Josiah Churchill and wife Elizabeth Foote
(married 1638) were born between 1638-1657. There were only two boys
(maybe a third, Henry) - one named Joseph, the other Benjamin. None
named R. Georg, no girls or wives named Marget.
And, next generation following had no Georg's or Marget's (Or
George's or Margarets) that I noticed.
If I didn't know better than to assume (ass of me), I would have to
think Josiah had a brother, abt. the same age who also lived
Wethersfield.
But, how could this Churchill and his parents been overlooked
overlooked all these years????
Will keep looking for explanations???
Meanwhile, do either of you have any????
Regards, dw.
Gene,
Thank you for the information. I also noted that Jacquelen Kyler had
not listed all the children.
Question: The url page says Hull Family. Any idea what Kyler's "Hull"
connection is? I'm interested in Ottery Saint Mary, Devon, England
Martin's and Churchills who were 17th century followers of an Anglican
non-conformist the Rev. Joseph Hull. Hull had children that came to New
England and settled in the MA Bay Colony and points north.
Elkanah Hamblin of Barnstable descendants or Samuel Bates descendants
would have the most interest in tracking down the marriage of Elkanah to
Margaret whoever she was. But there was no Hamblin issue from the
marriage so no interest there I suppose. That leaves only Bates
descendants or Hamblin descendants from an associated line.
You have interesting speculation. It might be worthwhile to post to the
Hamblin and Bates GenForum lists to see if any descendants have
researched the issue.
Also, Wills and probates might answer the question.
Bill Churchill
-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Hubbard [mailto:hubfam@earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 2:48 PM
To: churchil(a)koyote.com; mabarnst-l(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Elkanah Hamblin + Margaret "Bates of Plymouth"
Dear Bill and List:
I wrote for Margaret Churchill's birth "Oct 1675" in the referenced
message.
Call that a senior moment. Davis, in his Genealogical Register of
Plymouth Families, on. p. 57 says her birth was Oct, 1684. That was a
major slipup on my part ...Dang! :-(
Anyway, I think the Hamblin/Churchill relationship pretty much matches.
Too bad there isn't a will or something available to prove the point.
One Rootsweb source, for the information on Benjamin Bates and Margaret
Churchill is at
http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:14
54661&id=I4159
You will find their dates of births and deaths attributed to LDS
records.
Mayflower Descendant 5:54-5 lists Samuel Bates' and Margaret's children.
(Job, the last of 5 listed , was born in 1721.)
I would judge that because there were no children of the
Hamblin/Churchill union, not much interest has been paid in identifiying
Margaret "Bates".
'Gene
Gene,
I have this Margaret Churchill born Oct, 1684. This is from "A
Genealogical Dictionary of The First Settlers of New England" by James
Savage, p. 387. What is the source for the Oct. 1675 birth date?
Also, what is the source for Samuel Bates 6 Apr 1730 date of death?
Bill Churchill
-----Original Message-----
From: Eugene Hubbard [mailto:hubfam@earthlink.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 1:32 PM
To: CHURCHILL-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Elkanah Hamblin + Margaret "Bates of Plymouth"
Elkanah Hamblin of Barnstable is said to have married (2d) a Margaret
Bates of Plymouth. While it is true that the given name of Margaret is
endemic in Clemence Bate's descendants, I have found no linkage of
Elkanah's wife to the Clemence Bates line.
That being the case, I posited that Bates may have been Margaret's
married name (not her surname). Bolstering this idea is that early
records frequently listed a widow by her married name. Anyway, doing a
Rootsweb search using just Bates as a male and Margaret as a female (
Margaret to be born 1675 + or - 10 years to make her age near that of
her 2nd husband Elkanah), I obtained one hit, for a Margaret Churchill
(dau. of Joseph and (Sarah Hicks) Churchill, b. Oct. 1675. The date
makes her almost equal in age to Elkanah (a few month's difference.)
Margaret Churchill married Samuel Bates, who died 6 Apr 1730 in
Wareham, Plymouth Co., MA. Elkanah married Margaret "Bates" on August
11, 1734.
I would make a guess that Margaret Bates was indeed Margaret (Churchill)
Bates.
Have I reinvented a wheel?
Has Margaret "Bates" been otherwise identified?
I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter.
Thanks,
'Gene Hubbard
Elkanah Hamblin of Barnstable is said to have married (2d) a Margaret
Bates of Plymouth. While it is true that the given name of Margaret is
endemic in Clemence Bate's descendants, I have found no linkage of
Elkanah's wife to the Clemence Bates line.
That being the case, I posited that Bates may have been Margaret's
married name (not her surname). Bolstering this idea is that early
records frequently listed a widow by her married name. Anyway, doing a
Rootsweb search using just Bates as a male and Margaret as a female (
Margaret to be born 1675 + or - 10 years to make her age near that of
her 2nd husband Elkanah), I obtained one hit, for a Margaret Churchill
(dau. of Joseph and (Sarah Hicks) Churchill, b. Oct. 1675. The date
makes her almost equal in age to Elkanah (a few month's difference.)
Margaret Churchill married Samuel Bates, who died 6 Apr 1730 in
Wareham, Plymouth Co., MA. Elkanah married Margaret "Bates" on August
11, 1734.
I would make a guess that Margaret Bates was indeed Margaret (Churchill)
Bates.
Have I reinvented a wheel?
Has Margaret "Bates" been otherwise identified?
I'd appreciate any thoughts on the matter.
Thanks,
'Gene Hubbard
Coralyn,
If I may ask, what is your interest in this Mary Churchill?
My replies to your message:
I WOULD APPRECIATE VERY MUCH IF YOU WOULD KINDLY SHARE YOUR SOURCES SO
THAT I HAVE A FOUNDATION FOR HER.
At the bottom of the message I have pasted a report that gives sources
for the information on Mary2 Churchill.
WAS MARY'S SECOND HUSBAND A COUSIN?
The identity of Henry Churchill of Rochester is unknown. His situation
was confused by 20th century speculation that he was a younger son of
John & Hannah Churchill and, thus, Mary's brother. However, there is no
Plymouth birth record for him and he was not mentioned in John's probate
which most certainly means he was not a child of John & Hannah Churchill
of Plymouth.
I have quite a large listing of English Churchill lines collected and
compiled over the last 15 years. In the 17th century Henry was a given
name used in only a couple family groups.
It turns out that there was a Henry Churchill baptized, 1631, son of
Thomas Churchill of Clifton, Deddington, Oxfordshire. This Henry came
to the Virginia Colony in the service of his uncle Henry Churchill of
Steeple Claydon, Oxfordshire and the Virginia Colony. His uncle died in
Virginia in 1653/4 and the nephew Henry disappears from Virginia records
after 1654. My suspicion is that the Rochester Henry Churchill was this
Henry. The uncle (Steeple Claydon Henry Churchill) was Church of
England but the Deddington Churchills were non-conformists. (Actually
in this period all Churchills familiar to me were COE, whether
non-conformist or not.)
In Plymouth MA mentions, the Rochester Henry comes over as a
non-conformist. My postulation is that this Henry left Virginia
(non-conformity was suppressed there) and removed to Plymouth Colony
where his beliefs were accepted. (Plymouth Colony was actually within
the Virginia church diocese but in the early years the church did not
exercise control there.) All this, however, may not be the case.
CAN YOU RECOMMEND A TRUSTWORTHY HISTORY BOOK, OR SOCIAL HISTORY BOOK,
ABOUT EARLY PLYMOUTH SETTLERS? DO YOU KNOW OF ANY THAT MENTIONS THE
CHURCHILLS?
I don't know of a good social history about Plymouth. Maybe someone on
the list does. I have never come across a book that I think correctly
characterizes the religious view of the early Plymouth settlers. The
nature of the early settlers was diverse but is usually portrayed by one
or two fixed views. In reality I think, Puritanism and non-conformity
took a variety of changing forms in this period.
In order to truly understand the Churchills of Plymouth (and the
Connecticut Colony for that matter) I think it necessary to understand
(circa 17th century) the development of English non-conformity. With
regard to land holdings and succession in the colonies, it is also
necessary to have an understanding of English law as it applied to
entail there.
By the way (as you may have guessed by now) Mary is my favorite Plymouth
Churchill. She was spirited, strong-willed and always seems to have
triumphed over adversity. She read, wrote and (from the scant samples
we have) had a good command of the king's English. This is in contrast
to her brother John who spelled phonetically (a common custom of the
day) and was not quite "grammatically" correct. Mary did not write
script but used a very neat cursive printing. Her sister Hannah used
the same printing form. Brothers Eliezer and John wrote in script.
Joseph may not have been able to write and I have never found a sample
of William's writing.
Regards,
Bill Churchill
From the Association database:
Name: Mary CHURCHILL1,2,3,4,5,6
Sex: Female
Father: John CHURCHILL of Plymouth MA (bet 1602 and 1616 - 1 Jan
1662/63)
Mother: Hannah PONTUS ( - 22 Dec 1690)
Individual Facts
Birth 1 Aug 1654 Hobb's Hole, MA7,8
Death aft 18 Oct 1725 (age 71) Rochester, MA9
Marriages/Children
1. Thomas DOTY
Marriage bef 29 Oct 1673 (age 19) Plymouth,
Massachuesetts10
Children Martha DOTY (May 1672 - aft 29 Jun 1748)
Hannah DOTY (Dec 1675 - 12 Apr 1764)
Thomas DOTY Jr. (22 Jul 1679 - bet 9 May 1721 and 16 Feb 1722)
2. Henry CHURCHILL
Marriage 8 Feb 1687/88 (age 32) Plymouth,
Massachuesetts11,12,13,14
Sources
1. From the files of George Ernest Bowman edited by Susan E. Roser.
Mayflower Marriages. Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 1990. p.
161.
2. Peter B. Hill Compiler. Mayflower Families through Five Generations
Volume II, Part I & II
Edward Doty His Descendants Through Sons Thomas and Samuel, and
Daughters Desire and Elizabeth. General Society of Mayflower
Descendants, 1996. p. 5.
3. Nathaniel B. Shurtleff, M.D.. Records of the Plymouth Colony
1633-1689
Reprint by George Ernest Bowman
75-34715. The Press of William White, 1875 reprinted by Genealogical
Publishing Company, Baltimore, MD, 1991. p. 137.
4. From the files of George Ernest Bowman edited by Susan E. Roser.
Mayflower Deeds & Probate. Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 1994.
p. 263.
5. Churchill Association database. Notes, papers and reports as noted.
6. W. G. Churchill. MS Word Report, “Facts and Fictions about Mary2
Churchill of the Plymouth Colony.”
7. Nathaniel B. Shurtleff, M.D.. Records of the Plymouth Colony
1633-1689
Reprint by George Ernest Bowman
75-34715. The Press of William White, 1875 reprinted by Genealogical
Publishing Company, Baltimore, MD, 1991. P. 16.
8. Peter B. Hill Compiler. Mayflower Families through Five Generations
Volume II, Part I & II, Edward Doty His Descendants Through Sons Thomas
and Samuel, and Daughters Desire and Elizabeth. General Society of
Mayflower Descendants, 1996. p. 4.
9. Ibid. p. 6.
10. Ibid. p. 4.
11. From the files of George Ernest Bowman edited by Susan E. Roser.
Mayflower Marriages. Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 1990. p.
161
12. Roser, Susan E.. Mayflower Vital Records, Deeds and Wills,
1600-1900s, "Mayflower Births and Deaths, Volume I" Copyright 1992,
"Mayflower Births and Deaths, Volume II" Copyright 1992, "Mayflower
Increasings " Copyright 1995
"Mayflower Marriages" Copyright 1990, "Mayflower Deeds and Probates"
Copyright 1994. Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., Baltimore
Reproduced on Broderbund Software's Family Archive CD # 167. Mayflower
Increasings, Chapter on Edward Doty/Doten, page 45.
13. Thomas Faunce. LDS Microfilm 0416334. A page-by-page reproduction
of the original book including 1880 transcriptions of some of the town
records. “Original Plymouth Towne Book” original book page 154 (image
available).
14. Massachusetts Society of Mayflower Descendants. “The Mayflower
Descendant,” A Quarterly Magazine of Pilgrim Genealogy and History
(1899-1937) in 34 Volumes. Search & ReSearch Publishing Corporation,
1997, 1999, Revised October 1999, Wheat Ridge, CO 80033. Vol. 13,
October 1912, No.. 4, p. 203.
***********************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Coralyn [mailto:bonjourcd@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 8:00 PM
To: churchil(a)koyote.com
Subject: Re: Mary (CHURCHILL) DOTY, Plymouth Co., MA, 1600's
Hello, Bill!
I was delighted to receive your response! It is kind of you to take the
time to help me. I'm thrilled to see a breakthrough in this mystery
about Mary (Churchill) Doty. I was afraid that everyone who was
knowledgeable through the centuries would have tried every avenue to
sort out who Mary was, but could go no further, leaving her a "stand
alone" lady.
I would appreciate very much if you would kindly share your sources so
that I have a foundation for her.
Was Mary's second husband a cousin?
Can you recommend a trustworthy history book, or social history book,
about early Plymouth settlers? Do you know of any that mentions the
Churchills?
Thank you for your kindness.
Coralyn
bonjourcd(a)comcast.net
Seeking information about Mary (CHURCHILL) DOTY:
b: abt 1650
d: ?
m: Thomas DOTY, abt 1670, Plymouth Co., MA
Child:
Hannah (DOTY) DELANO
b: Dec 1675 Plymouth, Plymouth, MA
d: 12 April 1764 Duxbury, Plymouth, MA
m: Jonathan DELANO, 12 Jan 1697/98, Duxbury, Plymouth, MA
Is it known where Mary (CHURCHILL) DOTY was born? When? Her parents' names?
Your help would be greatly appreciated!
Coralyn
bonjourcd(a)comcast.net