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Hi Chris,
It was good to read all this info on your Churchill side.
We too are looking for our Ggggrandfather William Churchill b c1796. We only have his London death certificate to say that he died in 1847 age 51ys in the St Marylebone Workhouse. The entry records to the workhouse say he was a married man, though no sign of his wife but two children aged in their teens, Elizabeth and John are inmates too. Elizabeth was sent to Australia in 1849 and John to 'Barking'.
William was being admitted from Bath Hospital. He died of 'Brain Disease'.
William worked as a Stableman to a William Wool in Cavendish Sq.
When daughter Elizabeth married, she gave her father's name as James, the reason for that remains a mystery.
There were two other Churchills in the Workhouse at the same time. A Thomas and a Mary Ann, from Hanwell. Both older than Wlm.
Does anyone know what the population of Churchills was in London during the 1830's?
Regards
Jan.
----- Original Message -----
From: sbcjhope(a)currantbun.com
To: CHURCHILL-L(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: My line in Devon
Can anyone help fill in the gaps or the ancestry if I outline my Churchill
line in more detail?
William Churchill was born in Harpford, Devon, England ca 1775
according to records when he joined the army in 1805 at Bath,
Somerset, aged 30 (1st Foot Guards, now the Grenadier Guards,
whose c-in-c was John Churchill, Duke of Marlborough in the 1600s -
coincidence??)
He left the army in 1814, discharged through ill health, having served
in Spain in the Peninsula Wars. He received an army pension, and
lived in Sidmouth, where he married Hannah GOSS in 1817. Three
children followed, John (1818, Sidmouth, my ancestor), Sarah and
Samuel (both 1821 Sidmouth). PR records show Sarah and Samuel's
parents incorrectly, but marriage certificates at Teignmouth and
Exmouth and subsequent census entries show without a shadow of
doubt that these are all William and Hannah's children. William was a
dyer by trade.
William and Hannah went to West Teignmouth, Devon sometime
before 1841, with their 3 children, who all married in WT or married a
person from WT. William died in July 1851at Lower Brook St, WT aged
84, shortly after the 1851 census which gave his age as 83. His widow
Hannah seems to have died in the workhouse at Newton Abbot in
1857, aged 70, but the death cert gives widow of JOHN (not William)
Churchill, soldier. She died of debility, and it is known from a family
letter that she was unable to look after herself or keep herself clean
when she entered the workhouse. She was born at Farway in 1787.
However, another family letter in the possession of the descendants of
Samuel Churchill is most interesting. Dated '1817 Sidmouth', it is from
a 'William' to 'Dear Mother', informing his mother to come at once or
his father will marry another who is known to her, as father needs a
woman about the house. It goes on to say that it is her (his mother's)
fault that he they have not married before, and that it has always been
his father's desire to make her and his children happy.
William, the author of the letter, mentions his schooling in 'summing
and writing', so he is obviously still a child, and presumably the
illegitimate child of William senior, who was baptised in Sidmouth on
the same day as John Churchill in 1818, but his parents were given as
William (dyer) and JANE, as opposed to William (dyer) and Hannah for
John's entry. In the margin by John's name, the entry states '12yrs', but
it would seem that this should refer to William, not John.
William (jnr) witnessed Samuel's marriage in Exmouth in 1843 to a
Teignmouth girl, Susan Maria Voysey. He used the name William
Gilbert Churchill, by which he always referred to himself. Was his
mother's name Gilbert, I wonder, and he used both surnames to
indicate his connection? Census records show that William (jnr) was
born in Marylebone, Middlesex (London) ca 1805/7 and he married
Loveday Bolt at Sidmouth in 1830, which would fit approximately with
age 12 in 1818. William (jnr) and John were both dyers by trade, as
was their father William snr...... Was William born out of wedlock in
London when William (snr) was in the army? Who was GEORGE
Gilbert Churchill, also the son of William and Jane, baptised at
Marylebone in 1813 according to IGI? William's letter to his mother
mentioned a brother and sister, whose health William enquired after,
implying that the siblings were living with his mother. No names were
given, but who were they?? Was George his brother? If so, why was
George baptised in Marylebone, but not William, who was older? Had
William married Jane Collins or Collier in 1801 at Aylesbeare, near
Harpford? A son, Thomas, of William and Jane was baptised in 1803 at
Harpford.. Was it the same Jane, wife of William Churchill of the
King's Guards who was buried at Ottery St Mary in 1808? (The
Grenadiers Museum thinks it likely that the 1st reg of Foot may have
been referred to as the King's Guards, and PRO records show no other
William Churchill serving in the army at that time....so it looks like my
man....) If so, who was William son of William and Jane who was
BURIED at Ottery St Mary 27 March 1807? Was this a mistake?
Should it have read baptism, and referred to William jnr, k/a Wm
Gilbert Churchill? Or was this a legitimate child from a legitimate
marriage, whilst William also had a mistress in Marylebone, mother of
William jnr, author of the letter?
On this same branch, is it coincidence that William jnr and Loveday
had a son William Henry Gilbert Churchill in 1832 at Exmouth, and the
IGI gives a cryptic entry in the Devon section of the 1988 version, with
no place name for William Henry Gilbert Churchill, born 15 May 1832
to Gilbert Randolph Spencer Churchill and Loveday. No baptism entry
is the given, just a birth. The father's name does not agree with my
ancestor, but how many babies named William Henry Gilbert Churchill
with a mother called Loveday would have been born in Devon in
1832?? Family legend has always suggested a link to the Dukes of
Marlborough..... Does this entry have anything to do with my family, I
wonder?
Unfortunately, I do not know how to set about finding who sent this
entry to IGI, or where they got it from. Can anyone help?
There are so many questions about this line. Perhaps William snr was
baptised in Venn Ottery, a chapelry linked to Harpford, in 1778? If so,
his parents might have been John and Mary (Maddocks). Around 1768
there was a curate called Charles Churchill at Harpford. Could he have
been anything to do with the family? Perhaps they were descendants of
the Ottery St Mary Churchills, or had they travelled about? Or maybe
William was born in 1767/8, as his age at death suggests? However, I
am inclined to think it more likely that the age on entry to the army is
correct, ie born ca 1775.
I have descendant charts for John and Samuel, and know that Sarah
married Robert Heath of Ipplepen. If anyone is related, please contact
me. There are descendants in USA and Australia, as well as the UK.
John married Mary Finch in WT in 1841 - tree on Rootsweb.com under
worldconnect project.
I am happy to pass on any information that I have. Hope someone is
connected.
Chris Hope.
==============================
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Can anyone help fill in the gaps or the ancestry if I outline my Churchill
line in more detail?
William Churchill was born in Harpford, Devon, England ca 1775
according to records when he joined the army in 1805 at Bath,
Somerset, aged 30 (1st Foot Guards, now the Grenadier Guards,
whose c-in-c was John Churchill, Duke of Marlborough in the 1600s -
coincidence??)
He left the army in 1814, discharged through ill health, having served
in Spain in the Peninsula Wars. He received an army pension, and
lived in Sidmouth, where he married Hannah GOSS in 1817. Three
children followed, John (1818, Sidmouth, my ancestor), Sarah and
Samuel (both 1821 Sidmouth). PR records show Sarah and Samuel's
parents incorrectly, but marriage certificates at Teignmouth and
Exmouth and subsequent census entries show without a shadow of
doubt that these are all William and Hannah's children. William was a
dyer by trade.
William and Hannah went to West Teignmouth, Devon sometime
before 1841, with their 3 children, who all married in WT or married a
person from WT. William died in July 1851at Lower Brook St, WT aged
84, shortly after the 1851 census which gave his age as 83. His widow
Hannah seems to have died in the workhouse at Newton Abbot in
1857, aged 70, but the death cert gives widow of JOHN (not William)
Churchill, soldier. She died of debility, and it is known from a family
letter that she was unable to look after herself or keep herself clean
when she entered the workhouse. She was born at Farway in 1787.
However, another family letter in the possession of the descendants of
Samuel Churchill is most interesting. Dated '1817 Sidmouth', it is from
a 'William' to 'Dear Mother', informing his mother to come at once or
his father will marry another who is known to her, as father needs a
woman about the house. It goes on to say that it is her (his mother's)
fault that he they have not married before, and that it has always been
his father's desire to make her and his children happy.
William, the author of the letter, mentions his schooling in 'summing
and writing', so he is obviously still a child, and presumably the
illegitimate child of William senior, who was baptised in Sidmouth on
the same day as John Churchill in 1818, but his parents were given as
William (dyer) and JANE, as opposed to William (dyer) and Hannah for
John's entry. In the margin by John's name, the entry states '12yrs', but
it would seem that this should refer to William, not John.
William (jnr) witnessed Samuel's marriage in Exmouth in 1843 to a
Teignmouth girl, Susan Maria Voysey. He used the name William
Gilbert Churchill, by which he always referred to himself. Was his
mother's name Gilbert, I wonder, and he used both surnames to
indicate his connection? Census records show that William (jnr) was
born in Marylebone, Middlesex (London) ca 1805/7 and he married
Loveday Bolt at Sidmouth in 1830, which would fit approximately with
age 12 in 1818. William (jnr) and John were both dyers by trade, as
was their father William snr...... Was William born out of wedlock in
London when William (snr) was in the army? Who was GEORGE
Gilbert Churchill, also the son of William and Jane, baptised at
Marylebone in 1813 according to IGI? William's letter to his mother
mentioned a brother and sister, whose health William enquired after,
implying that the siblings were living with his mother. No names were
given, but who were they?? Was George his brother? If so, why was
George baptised in Marylebone, but not William, who was older? Had
William married Jane Collins or Collier in 1801 at Aylesbeare, near
Harpford? A son, Thomas, of William and Jane was baptised in 1803 at
Harpford.. Was it the same Jane, wife of William Churchill of the
King's Guards who was buried at Ottery St Mary in 1808? (The
Grenadiers Museum thinks it likely that the 1st reg of Foot may have
been referred to as the King's Guards, and PRO records show no other
William Churchill serving in the army at that time....so it looks like my
man....) If so, who was William son of William and Jane who was
BURIED at Ottery St Mary 27 March 1807? Was this a mistake?
Should it have read baptism, and referred to William jnr, k/a Wm
Gilbert Churchill? Or was this a legitimate child from a legitimate
marriage, whilst William also had a mistress in Marylebone, mother of
William jnr, author of the letter?
On this same branch, is it coincidence that William jnr and Loveday
had a son William Henry Gilbert Churchill in 1832 at Exmouth, and the
IGI gives a cryptic entry in the Devon section of the 1988 version, with
no place name for William Henry Gilbert Churchill, born 15 May 1832
to Gilbert Randolph Spencer Churchill and Loveday. No baptism entry
is the given, just a birth. The father's name does not agree with my
ancestor, but how many babies named William Henry Gilbert Churchill
with a mother called Loveday would have been born in Devon in
1832?? Family legend has always suggested a link to the Dukes of
Marlborough..... Does this entry have anything to do with my family, I
wonder?
Unfortunately, I do not know how to set about finding who sent this
entry to IGI, or where they got it from. Can anyone help?
There are so many questions about this line. Perhaps William snr was
baptised in Venn Ottery, a chapelry linked to Harpford, in 1778? If so,
his parents might have been John and Mary (Maddocks). Around 1768
there was a curate called Charles Churchill at Harpford. Could he have
been anything to do with the family? Perhaps they were descendants of
the Ottery St Mary Churchills, or had they travelled about? Or maybe
William was born in 1767/8, as his age at death suggests? However, I
am inclined to think it more likely that the age on entry to the army is
correct, ie born ca 1775.
I have descendant charts for John and Samuel, and know that Sarah
married Robert Heath of Ipplepen. If anyone is related, please contact
me. There are descendants in USA and Australia, as well as the UK.
John married Mary Finch in WT in 1841 - tree on Rootsweb.com under
worldconnect project.
I am happy to pass on any information that I have. Hope someone is
connected.
Chris Hope.
------- Forwarded message follows -------
From: sbcjhope(a)currantbun.com
To: CHURCHILL-L-request(a)rootsweb.com
Date sent: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 15:26:34 +0100
Subject: N Y Churchills from Devon, England
Copies to: sbcjhope(a)currantbun.com
Priority: normal
Relations of my Churchill line went to America some time after 1881.
They may have gone with, or had connections with Whiteway or
Hutchings families. Does anyone know of a house at Schenectady, NY
or of a C. F. Churchill and his wife Jennie or Annie? - or of the wedding
of a Ruth Churchill ca 1943, possibly to a GI? (Ruth's mother appears
to be called Eleanor). Photos were sent to one of my distant cousin's
grandparents of these people and places in the mid 20th century. Can
anyone help to identify the families or has anyone heard of
Schenectady??
Family records say that William Henry Churchill, born 1846, West
Teignmouth, Devon, England emigrated to America, as did his sister
Jessie Fanny Ellen Hutchings, born 1850 West Teignmouth. Has
anyone come across them? Jessie's daughter Florence Hutchings (b
1880) married her Whiteway cousin and they emigrated to USA to
escape the scandal in GB.
If anyone is related to this line, it is said by all researchers in the UK
and Australia with whom I have had contact, that their ancestors pass
on the tale of a link to the Dukes of Marlborough, which is so far not
proved. Our earliest known ancestor is William Churchill, born in
Harpford, Devon ca 1767-75, probably 1775.
Any help would be appreciated.
Chris Hope.
------- End of forwarded message -------