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This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ilI.2ACIB/195.697.1.1
Message Board Post:
Hi Betty,
It was the Fleet B. Ketcham farm at Bread and Cheese Hollow in Suffolk County NY that I meant. I'm sorry that it is not the one that you are looking for.
Good luck,
Angelique
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ilI.2ACIB/195.697.1
Message Board Post:
Hi, Are u talking about the Ketchum farm in Dalton GA??
Whitfield co, GA? Let me know. Betty
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ilI.2ACIB/946
Message Board Post:
looking to complete this line:
____7. Caroline "Carrie" Mercedes Wiggins / Jessie CHURCH, m. 1855; of Butler / Passaic, MO
_______b. 10-07-1835, d. 9-1919
_______8. George Church / (1) Catharine COLEMAN
__________b. ?, d. ? / b.?, d. 1889
__________9. Cora Church / ? HUMPHRIES
__________9. Grace Church, b. ?, d. 8 yo
__________9. Mary Elizabeth Church / Byron Secondo SNYDER
_______Geo. remarried (2) Catharine WADDLE after 1889
__________9. Walter Jesse Church
__________9. Kathleen Church
__________9. Ruby Elva Church
__________9. Nettie Church / Jackson THOMPSON
_____________10. Maud Thompson / ? SNYDER
_______8. Nettie Church / ?
__________9. Charles
__________9. Fred
__________9. Elva
Please tell me how to unsubscribe.
----- Original Message -----
From: <kjhh41(a)hotmail.com>
To: <CHURCH-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 6:26 AM
Subject: [CHURCH] Re: THE CHURCH PAPERS
>
> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
>
> Classification: Query
>
> Message Board URL:
>
> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ilI.2ACIB/501.510
>
> Message Board Post:
>
> At the Clarke Historical Library at Central Michigan University Mt.
Pleasant MI, there are about two years of Civil War letters written by
Lafayette and Nathan Church. They were father and son and both served in
the Civil War. Maybe this will help. You can contact me at
kech42(a)hotmail.com if you want further information. Kathleen
>
>
> ==============================
> Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1
> Source for Family History Online. Go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB
>
>
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ilI.2ACIB/511.638.777.1
Message Board Post:
Would like to hear from you, too! Please e-mail me. Erastus2was my gfather's uncle.
Bernie
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ilI.2ACIB/511.638.777
Message Board Post:
I'm related to Erastus, gg grd father.
I have a lot of info down to me.
Would like to hear from you.
Betty Donnel Burchard
father.Erastus was my 2nd grt grd
Erastus was my2
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
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Message Board Post:
At the Clarke Historical Library at Central Michigan University Mt. Pleasant MI, there are about two years of Civil War letters written by Lafayette and Nathan Church. They were father and son and both served in the Civil War. Maybe this will help. You can contact me at kech42(a)hotmail.com if you want further information. Kathleen
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Surnames: Church, Hamlin,Gere, Wiltse
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ilI.2ACIB/707.738.739.1.1.1
Message Board Post:
Hope the lead produces results...let me know if you come up with anything...thanks.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Surnames: Foster Church Norwood
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/ilI.2ACIB/945
Message Board Post:
At age 37 on Sep 28, 1956, Oleta Church Norwood listed her address as Box 165 Norwood, NC. on her SS-5 Application for Social Security Account Number. I thought it was strange that her last name is the same as the town in which she was living .
She was born Oleta Church, Jan 26, 1919 in Champion, Wilkes, NC to Jessie Calvin Church and Eulala (Foster ). She was a unemployed white female and she was given the number 243-60-5404.
I have a copy of her SS-5
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/ilI.2ACIB/707.738.739.1.1
Message Board Post:
Thanks for the info on this early family. This is new info which has given me at least a starting place in England for Garrett's family. I'll check it out!
I think this message says it very well. Rita.
*****************************************************************************************
Subject:
Mythology vs Genealogy
Resent-Date:
Mon, 23 Jul 2001 16:38:26 -0600
Resent-From:
Maggie_Ohio-L(a)rootsweb.com
Date:
Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:34:24 -0700
From:
"Tiffany" <TANARI(a)prodigy.net>
Organization:
Prodigy Internet
To:
Maggie_Ohio-L(a)rootsweb.com
The following was written by Ferna Lary. FernaLary(a)aol.com as posted at
http://www.dearmyrtle.com/01/0322.htm It is one of the best pieces I
have
seen on the importance of documentation and researching with a critical
eye.
I think most if not all of us can attest to the ideas and problems
presented
in this essay.
Genealogy is proven family history.
Mythology is not.
With all the data available today, 98% of it is Mythology. That doesn't
mean
it's not great information, it just means it's not factually proven. It
is,
however, an excellent source to use to give you some idea of where to
check
for "proven" facts, especially when you're confronted with a brick wall.
It's just that the "true genealogist" should remember to keep it
separate
from "proven" facts.
Recently, I used information off of a tombstone as the birth date of one
of
my family members, thinking this was a "proven" record. However, after
researching SSDI and birth records, I discovered the birth year was off
by
one year. The SSDI and the birth certificate both agreed she was born in
1905, however, her headstone has engraved in stone "1906".
In that same vein, her parents listed on the death certificate were also
incorrect. Yes, at times even the death certificate can be wrong when
you
consider that the "informant" giving the information is doing so under
duress and without benefit of "legal forms" in front of them. In many
cases,
the informant is the second or third spouse, and their knowledge of the
deceased's ancestry may be quite vague.
The best tool a genealogist can have is an "inquiring eye" when it comes
to
any and all data. IGI records, PAF files, GEDCOM's and family histories
are
only as good as the researcher who put them together. It doesn't mean
they
don't include valuable research information, because more often than not
this information will help you find another hole to dig around in or
another
location to research that you hadn't thought of before. But remember
it's
"Mythology" until you prove it.
What constitutes "proven" fact? My definition of "proven" (just going by
my
experience) are facts that are documented in numerous records that
remain
the same throughout, or facts documented in Court records, marriage
licenses, probate records, and such. But even then, you have to keep
that
"inquiring eye".
My father's birth certificate says he was born November 19, 1926. Is
this a
proven fact? Maybe. Maybe not. According to him, he was born on November
13,
1926 and was so premature the doctor said he wouldn't live and that
there
was no need to complete a birth certificate or to give him a name.
Supposedly when the doctor came around again 6 days later and saw him
"still
kicking" he decided they better name him. Then he completed a birth
certificate. Mythology or Genealogy?
Since this story seemed to be true, he weighed only 3 pounds at birth,
born
to a mother in her late forties, and since his brothers and sisters
corroborated the story, I took it as fact. So much so, that when he
died, I
had the Nov. 13th birthdate put on his headstone. Many years from now,
when
future genealogists of my family search back and find his birth
certificate
with Nov. 19th and his headstone with Nov. 13th, what will they think?
Hopefully they will use an "inquiring eye". Hopefully I'll have left a
trail
wide enough for them to follow.
On my first trip to the Family History Center in my hometown, the man
running the center gave me a tour of the place. At the beginning of his
tour, he pointed to the hundreds of FTM files all on CD and said, "Most
of
this is Mythology." Then he pointed to the microfilm cabinets and said,
"Some of that is mythology, some is genealogy. It's up to you to
decipher
the truth."
I've been researching seriously now for six years and have seen a lot of
mythology and a little of genealogy. The main thing I have noted is that
ALL
of the mythology has a purpose, in that it has led me to find what
genealogy
I have actually found. So don't disregard it as useless because it
isn't,
and I'm so eternally grateful for the millions of hours folks have put
into
posting their information for all to see. Just be sure to keep that
"inquiring eye" open for real proof. By Ferna Lary
Regards,
Tiffany
Surnames: Van Hoosan, Van Hoosen, Holmes
Applegate, Goodeill, Salyer, Henderson, Miller, Møller and Pourner
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/p/o/u/Tiffany-M-Pourner/http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/6338/genealogy.html
ICQ# 1508831
AIM ID Ladytanari
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I think this message says it very well, re genealogy frauds.
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Subject: Mythology vs Genealogy
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:34:24 -0700
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The following was written by Ferna Lary. FernaLary(a)aol.com as posted at
http://www.dearmyrtle.com/01/0322.htm It is one of the best pieces I have
seen on the importance of documentation and researching with a critical eye.
I think most if not all of us can attest to the ideas and problems presented
in this essay.
Genealogy is proven family history.
Mythology is not.
With all the data available today, 98% of it is Mythology. That doesn't mean
it's not great information, it just means it's not factually proven. It is,
however, an excellent source to use to give you some idea of where to check
for "proven" facts, especially when you're confronted with a brick wall.
It's just that the "true genealogist" should remember to keep it separate
from "proven" facts.
Recently, I used information off of a tombstone as the birth date of one of
my family members, thinking this was a "proven" record. However, after
researching SSDI and birth records, I discovered the birth year was off by
one year. The SSDI and the birth certificate both agreed she was born in
1905, however, her headstone has engraved in stone "1906".
In that same vein, her parents listed on the death certificate were also
incorrect. Yes, at times even the death certificate can be wrong when you
consider that the "informant" giving the information is doing so under
duress and without benefit of "legal forms" in front of them. In many cases,
the informant is the second or third spouse, and their knowledge of the
deceased's ancestry may be quite vague.
The best tool a genealogist can have is an "inquiring eye" when it comes to
any and all data. IGI records, PAF files, GEDCOM's and family histories are
only as good as the researcher who put them together. It doesn't mean they
don't include valuable research information, because more often than not
this information will help you find another hole to dig around in or another
location to research that you hadn't thought of before. But remember it's
"Mythology" until you prove it.
What constitutes "proven" fact? My definition of "proven" (just going by my
experience) are facts that are documented in numerous records that remain
the same throughout, or facts documented in Court records, marriage
licenses, probate records, and such. But even then, you have to keep that
"inquiring eye".
My father's birth certificate says he was born November 19, 1926. Is this a
proven fact? Maybe. Maybe not. According to him, he was born on November 13,
1926 and was so premature the doctor said he wouldn't live and that there
was no need to complete a birth certificate or to give him a name.
Supposedly when the doctor came around again 6 days later and saw him "still
kicking" he decided they better name him. Then he completed a birth
certificate. Mythology or Genealogy?
Since this story seemed to be true, he weighed only 3 pounds at birth, born
to a mother in her late forties, and since his brothers and sisters
corroborated the story, I took it as fact. So much so, that when he died, I
had the Nov. 13th birthdate put on his headstone. Many years from now, when
future genealogists of my family search back and find his birth certificate
with Nov. 19th and his headstone with Nov. 13th, what will they think?
Hopefully they will use an "inquiring eye". Hopefully I'll have left a trail
wide enough for them to follow.
On my first trip to the Family History Center in my hometown, the man
running the center gave me a tour of the place. At the beginning of his
tour, he pointed to the hundreds of FTM files all on CD and said, "Most of
this is Mythology." Then he pointed to the microfilm cabinets and said,
"Some of that is mythology, some is genealogy. It's up to you to decipher
the truth."
I've been researching seriously now for six years and have seen a lot of
mythology and a little of genealogy. The main thing I have noted is that ALL
of the mythology has a purpose, in that it has led me to find what genealogy
I have actually found. So don't disregard it as useless because it isn't,
and I'm so eternally grateful for the millions of hours folks have put into
posting their information for all to see. Just be sure to keep that
"inquiring eye" open for real proof. By Ferna Lary
Regards,
Tiffany
Surnames: Van Hoosan, Van Hoosen, Holmes
Applegate, Goodeill, Salyer, Henderson, Miller, Møller and Pourner
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/p/o/u/Tiffany-M-Pourner/http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/6338/genealogy.html
ICQ# 1508831
AIM ID Ladytanari
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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==== Maggie_Ohio Mailing List ====
Listowners Email is 73777.25(a)compuserve.com or MaggieOhio(a)columbus.rr.com
To search this list go to http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl and enter Maggie_Ohio for the list name.
==============================
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--------------A8056A2A8E430B0F848AC2A4--
Just after my exchanges with Jim Edgar about Churches who might have moved
from CT to VT, I ran across a newspaper abstract printed in the Summer 2001
NEHGS journal, "New England Ancestors" ("Weekly Windows to the Past: Vermont
Newspaper Abstracts, 1783-1816," 22-23), which had to do with a Samuel and
Elizabeth CHURCH. I have transcribed it as follows:
"Last week passed through this town, with their clothing and provisions, and
on foot, a venerable pair of the name of Samuel and Elizabeth Church. He
was born in Stonington, Connecticut, in January 1704, and she in Enfield,
Connecticut, on the 20 May 1707; they were lawfully joined in matrimony at
Voluntown in the year 1729 by Rev. Mr. Samuel Dorrence. They were blessed
with four promising children, all been taken away by death. The aged pair,
in September 1780, being possessed of £200 were induced to make over their
interest to Samuel Church, their grandson, son of Samuel Church, eldest son
of the travelers. At that time, the young man entered into a verbal
contract to support his aged grandparents to the end of their natural life.
He removed to Dorset, Vermont, and after two years moved so far north as
rendered it inconvenient for this aged couple to travel. May God in his
infinite wisdom grant, the found indulgence of parents to their children to
not in future force them on Pilgrimage at such an advanced age. The above
account was taken from the mouth of the aged pair." (Vermont Gazette, June
21, 1784)
Leslie - The only birth I show in 1835 is Celina A. Church, born 6/7/1835 from a family bible. This family was originally in Winsted, Conn., then Winthrop. Celina's father, Isaac Church. He died 8/13/1857, buried in Erie, PA There is a James Edward Church born 5/19/1867, died same day, but I find no other James Church. Sorry. Marilyn
-------Original Message-------
From:DKraus4934@aol.com
Date: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 08:05:51 PM
To:CHURCH-L@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CHURCH] Re: Marilyn......
Marilyn,
Do you have a James Church born in Gales Ferry, CT around 1835 in your book?
I can't find his family for anything. He is my true brick wall!
Thank you
Leslie
==============================
Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1
Source for Family History Online. Go to:
http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB
OK - I'll join the roll call. My Maria Jane CHURCH, b. 5 May 1845 in
Allen
County, Ohio, d. 17 April 1916 in Marengo, Iowa, married George W.
Zimmerman on 23 Feb 1862 in Center Point, Linn County, Iowa. He was
born 16 Mar 1823 in Ross County, Ohio, and died 10 Jan 1895 in Center
Point, Linn County, Iowa. He married (1) Sarah Jane SAXTON 14 Mar 1849
in Hardin County, Ohio, daughter of David SAXTON and
Jane McFARLAND. She was born about 1829, place unknown and died before
1860 in Iowa. (They moved to Iowa in 1854.) He married (2) Maria Jane
CHURCH.
Children of George and Sarah were: G.W., Isabel and Joseph.
Children of George and Maria were: Clinton, Alice, Cora, Henry, Frank,
Elizabeth, Florence, Arthur, Earl, Frederick and Walter, my grandfather.
I found Maria on the 1850 Census of Ohio, Auglaize Co, Wapakoneta.
Father listed as P.W. Church, age 40, Mason, born Vermont; Elizabeth,
age 29, born Ohio; William, age 10, b. Ohio; Mariah, age 5, b. Ohio;
James, age 3, b. Ohio; David, age 3, b. Ohio; Rebecca A., age 8/12, born
Ohio; John, age 33(P.W.'s brother?), Laborer, b. Ohio; Joseph Hamilton,
age 53, Mill Wright, b. Delaware; Gemima Godfrey, age 19, b. Ohio.
This GIF image can be seen at
<http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/oh/auglaize/census/1850/0351a.gif>
Rita Zimmerman Guzzo, great-granddaughter of George Zimmerman and Mariah
Jane Church.
Maureen wrote:
>
> Hi Jim -
>
> I received a note from Dave Edgar (pasted below) re. his connection and mine
> to Harriet (Hattie) Hooker Edgar, b. 1873, Lucas County OH, his
> great-grandmother. Interestingly, Harriet's grandmother was Fannie Church,
> reportedly born in Hartford CT, c. 1809, died in Lucas County in 1853. I
> have been searching for her family for some time.
>
> Would you be kind enough to tell me about your Church connection (saw your
> recent post on the Church mailing list), just on the off-chance that there
> might be some remote tie that I might follow up on, either in Ohio or
> Michigan or New York or Connecticut or . . . ? And, by the way, are you
> related to Dave Edgar?
>
> Thanks so much!
>
> Maureen
>
>
Marilyn,
Do you have a James Church born in Gales Ferry, CT around 1835 in your book?
I can't find his family for anything. He is my true brick wall!
Thank you
Leslie
I wanted to thank you for a very informative message and the website. I
spent most of last night reading up on the Anjou forgeries. I read most
everything and found it a real eye-opener. Incredible that he charged
$9000.00 a piece for his genealogies!!! Incredible that people would
pay that much for them!!! It's a real shame. All the more to follow
the rule, document, document, document. You'd think that with the
internet and the proliferation of information, that the good info would
outweigh and spread more than the bad. Rita.
casey church wrote:
>
> Sometimes I wish that one of the terms of being a list member of this Church group would be to visit the website:
> http://www.linkline.com/personal/xymox/fraud/fraud.htm.
>
> Another term would be to send an email to the LDS site at www.familysearch.org to remove all "works" of Gustav Anjou from their database. They are as guilty of disseminating his forgeries as anyone.
> It seems that the first "lineage" a new Church researcher encounters are these unfounded, undocumented and invented genealogies of Gustav Anjou, who has been dead for nearly 60 years. Yet his "genealogy" of the Church family persists, like a virus that invades an address book, multiplying and sending copies of itself to the unwary.
> There are some researchers that are aware of his fictions, yet continue to quote his "findings". Some seem to think that his fact-to-fiction ratio is about 50/50. My answer to that is: tell me the name of even one professional genealogist that agrees with that notion.
> This anti-Anjou rant is for the new Church researchers that have found their ancestry with Richard of Hartford and going all the way back to the 11th century. Unless you have documented such a lineage for yourself, then you are no doubt the victim of the Anjou Virus. Read the article on the above website about his Church genealogy.
>
> I hope newcomers to the Church research has found this rant-and-rave to be useful.
> Freddie Church
>
> ==============================
> Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp
> Search over 2500 databases with one easy query!
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
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Message Board Post:
Hi, Have the joseph line in spades. Please contact me privately. nightsong(a)worldnet.att.net
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Message Board URL:
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Message Board Post:
Dear Nick, Oral history has it that both Richards were cousins. Happy hunting. nightsong(a)worldnet.att.net