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Peg and Debra, Do either of you know who the James A. Chronister is who
received BLM land under Cash entry, document #22043 and 22562 in 1856
and 1857 in Reynolds county, MO.
Ps Sarfari is Mac's new browser
Mary Lou
Hello everyone, You guys sure know your stuff when it comes to
genealogy. I love reading it all, very informative.
I have found Mathias Chronister in the1930 Census in Wayne county, MO.
This census does not name the family just the approximate age and
number of people in the household. Where would be some places to look
to find the names of his wife and children. Would I need to order
film, are there places in Ancestry to look? All help is much
appreciated.
Mary Lou
On Monday, August 30, 2004, at 08:00 AM,
CHRONISTER-D-request(a)rootsweb.com wrote:
>
>
> CHRONISTER-D Digest Volume 04 : Issue 54
>
> Today's Topics:
> #1 Re: [CHRONISTER] CHRONISTER, ART & [Hawley486(a)aol.com]
> #2 Re: [CHRONISTER] CHRONISTER, ART & ["JAMES T BRADSHAW"
> <juanita793@msn]
> #3 Re: [CHRONISTER] Arthur and Mary [Hawley486(a)aol.com]
> #4 Re: [CHRONISTER] Arthur and Mary ["Peggy K. Reeves"
> <peg(a)reevesweb.c]
>
> Administrivia:
> To unsubscribe from CHRONISTER-D, send a message to
>
> CHRONISTER-D-request(a)rootsweb.com
>
> that contains in the body of the message the command
>
> unsubscribe
>
> and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software
> requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too.
>
> To contact the list administrator, send mail to
> CHRONISTER-admin(a)rootsweb.com.
>
> ______________________________
>
>
> From: Hawley486(a)aol.com
> Date: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:39:04 PM US/Central
> To: CHRONISTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CHRONISTER] CHRONISTER, ART & MARY
>
>
> Actually you were very clever.............you got me to pull out part
> of the
> file. Clever girl that you are. I also note that per Art they were
> married
> twice. Once before 1900 in the manner of the Cherokee and then again
> in
> 1900. How about that. No date was given for the Cherokee wedding.
>
> Marilyn
>
> ______________________________
>
>
> From: "JAMES T BRADSHAW" <juanita793(a)msn.com>
> Date: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:46:20 PM US/Central
> To: CHRONISTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CHRONISTER] CHRONISTER, ART & MARY
>
>
> How cool, I am glad I wasent married twice,
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Hawley486(a)aol.com>
> To: <CHRONISTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 5:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [CHRONISTER] CHRONISTER, ART & MARY
>
>
>> Actually you were very clever.............you got me to pull out part
>> of
>> the
>> file. Clever girl that you are. I also note that per Art they were
>> married
>> twice. Once before 1900 in the manner of the Cherokee and then
>> again in
>> 1900. How about that. No date was given for the Cherokee wedding.
>>
>> Marilyn
>>
>>
>> ==== CHRONISTER Mailing List ====
>> Check the archived posts to the Chronister List
>> at:http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index
>>
>> Enter <chronister> in the search box.
>>
>> ==============================
>> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
>> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
>> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________
>
>
> From: Hawley486(a)aol.com
> Date: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:47:20 PM US/Central
> To: CHRONISTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CHRONISTER] Arthur and Mary
>
>
> Peg, what I got out is the testimony in the matter of the application
> of...... there are , I have no ieda how many pages. It has the
> questions & answers
> plus all correspondence to and from, affidavits, notarized statements
> and
> copies of docs.
>
> I have done just a quick scan to gleam out some of the facts and also
> took
> info from the marriage cert. and death affidavit.
>
> The children, Lawrence and Ellen (Ella) were first listed as
> ChroMister and
> there are letters to get that corrected on the rolls.
>
> Also a copy of the letter rejecting L. G. Faulkner application for
> enrollment as a citizen by intermarriage.
>
> There is even a copy of an evelope.
>
> I am glad you all enjoyed this it has been another great
> learning/sharing
> experience.
>
> Marilyn
>
> ______________________________
>
>
> From: "Peggy K. Reeves" <peg(a)reevesweb.com>
> Date: Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:34:17 AM US/Central
> To: CHRONISTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CHRONISTER] Arthur and Mary
>
>
> Marilyn,
>
> Thanks so much for posting this! The microfilm I looked at apparently
> didn't have all of the follow-up stuff, just the application itself
> and a
> letter or two explaining the relationships.
>
> The Dawes roll index that NARA has online at their website still gives
> the
> children as "Chromister". Somehow, I'm not surprised.
>
> Peg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Hawley486(a)aol.com>
> To: <CHRONISTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 8:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [CHRONISTER] Arthur and Mary
>
>
>> Peg, what I got out is the testimony in the matter of the application
>> of...... there are , I have no ieda how many pages. It has the
>> questions
> & answers
>> plus all correspondence to and from, affidavits, notarized
>> statements and
>> copies of docs.
>>
>> I have done just a quick scan to gleam out some of the facts and also
>> took
>> info from the marriage cert. and death affidavit.
>>
>> The children, Lawrence and Ellen (Ella) were first listed as
>> ChroMister
> and
>> there are letters to get that corrected on the rolls.
>>
>> Also a copy of the letter rejecting L. G. Faulkner application for
>> enrollment as a citizen by intermarriage.
>>
>> There is even a copy of an evelope.
>>
>> I am glad you all enjoyed this it has been another great
>> learning/sharing
>> experience.
>>
>> Marilyn
>>
>>
Peg, what I got out is the testimony in the matter of the application
of...... there are , I have no ieda how many pages. It has the questions & answers
plus all correspondence to and from, affidavits, notarized statements and
copies of docs.
I have done just a quick scan to gleam out some of the facts and also took
info from the marriage cert. and death affidavit.
The children, Lawrence and Ellen (Ella) were first listed as ChroMister and
there are letters to get that corrected on the rolls.
Also a copy of the letter rejecting L. G. Faulkner application for
enrollment as a citizen by intermarriage.
There is even a copy of an evelope.
I am glad you all enjoyed this it has been another great learning/sharing
experience.
Marilyn
Actually you were very clever.............you got me to pull out part of the
file. Clever girl that you are. I also note that per Art they were married
twice. Once before 1900 in the manner of the Cherokee and then again in
1900. How about that. No date was given for the Cherokee wedding.
Marilyn
WOW,
I guess Marilyn and I are not looking at the same thing after all! The Guion Miller application file that I have doesn't include Mary's age nor the date of marriage.
Marilyn, did I fail to see some stuff on that application? Maybe you have something that is more detailed. As I said, I am very new at looking up Native American records, though I want to learn so I can do our son-in-law's pedigree one of these days (if I ever get a grandchild)!
Peg
I finally got out part of the file. Art was 27 when he married Mary age 15
per their marriage license. September 23, 1900. They have her last name
spelled...Hindman. Both were from Muldraw in Indian Territory.
Per the affidavit of relative pertaining to her death. Died on June 21,
1905 at or near Etta, Indian Territory. Affaiavit by her step father, L. G.
Faulkner.
Mary's mothers name on the rolls was Jinnie Blair on roll of 1880, page
682,#83 and on the roll of 1896 as Jennie Faulkner page 1067, #529. Jinnie Blair
Faulkner had been married prior to Faulkner to a Hinem.
Mary was listed on the rolls at age 15 year 1896 page 1073, #690.
Does this help any at all?
Marilyn
Juanita, I may be wrong but I think they are one and the same. Mary is
listed as the parent as she is and again as self with her own enrollment number.
She was very young to say the least.
Marilyn
Peggy, you helped a lot but, who is the Mary Chronister age 15. Because the
papers I have has two marys ,One is a parent and the other is 15 years old,I
am toooo old to try to figure all of this out,
Marilyn I love you, Juanita
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peggy K. Reeves" <peg(a)reevesweb.com>
To: <CHRONISTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 12:52 PM
Subject: [CHRONISTER] Arthur and Mary
> Well, you guys have been busy without me, I see.
>
> There are apparently conflicting sources for Arthur and his family. This
> is not unusual, and this is a good example of why we need to compare many
> different sources and consider the margin of error for each, always
> looking for the original documents whenever possible.
>
> It is helpful, in the case of Arthur, to remember that women then (of any
> color) did not enjoy the rights that they have today. At one time, women
> couldn't own property in their own name unless it was joint with a man.
> If a woman was willed property by a parent, it would be put in their
> husband's name, and if they weren't married they would have an
> administrator or "custodian" named (who was male), to transact their
> business for them. They couldn't buy or sell land without their husband's
> permission.
>
> We see Arthur Chronister enrolled, not by blood, but as husband and
> parent. Arthur was of age, and male, and capable of owning property and
> transacting business. He filled out the application to get compensation
> that the government was offering, for his wife, Mary Hinem, and for
> children Lawrence and Eller. He lists only two children on his
> application when asked to give the names and birthdates of his children.
>
> I was incorrect before when I said that Mary apparently completed the
> application after Arthur's death. She did not. She was already dead when
> Arthur applied. Thus, the children were orphaned upon Arthur's death. It
> was Mary's father (or brother) who completed the application process for
> the sake of getting the children enrolled. The names of Mary's parents
> are given as:
>
> Father's English name: Jim Hinem
> Mother's English name: Jenie Hinem (now Jeni Faulkner), maiden name Jenie
> Blair.
>
> That information was all on Arthur's original application. There were
> several letters in the file from other family members explaining other
> family connections on Mary Hinem's side of the family. In fact, her
> parents and grandparents were also enrolled.
>
> Always consider the sources and weigh the differing evidence carefully.
> Would Arthur have more of it written down correctly on his application
> form, or would various volunteers compiling databases be more likely to
> have copied everything correctly without making a number of mistakes? I
> made a HUGE mistake when I said Art's widow completed the application.
> That is the nature of humans--we have trouble copying things down exactly
> right. I don't ever get it all right, and the people compiling databases
> and publishing abstracts of records don't always get it right, either. I
> like to look at the original papers to see what is correct.
>
> I have something else to report that I found recently, but I'll do it in a
> separate message because it has nothing to do with this.
>
> Peg
>
>
> ==== CHRONISTER Mailing List ====
> All messages posted to the Chronister Ancestry Message Board are gatewayed
> to the Chronister mailing list at Rootweb.
>
> ==============================
> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
>
>
This is for the PA and OH Chronisters...
Remember when I posted a brief abstract of the pension file of Wilson Boyd Chronister, who served in both the Mexican War and the Civil War? In that file, there was a notarized record of marriage. It gave the parents of Wilson Boyd Chronister as "Casper Chronister and Maria Larversprager".
I had searched census indexes, thinking that it ought to be pretty easy to find that unusual name of "Larversprager" and find out more about Casper Sr.'s wife. I couldn't find even ONE family in PA or OH with that last name. It seemed that it didn't exist.
Karen, this is for you...
Those Lower Bermudian Church record abstracts show the birth and baptism of a child named "Livy Ann" born 23 January 1816 to Casper Kranster and Maria. The sponsor at that baptism was "Elisabeth Lieffelsperger". I am guessing that is probably the child's grandmother, the mother of Casper Sr.'s wife, Maria. Now I'll have to search again for families with the name spelled this way.
Peg
Well, you guys have been busy without me, I see.
There are apparently conflicting sources for Arthur and his family. This is not unusual, and this is a good example of why we need to compare many different sources and consider the margin of error for each, always looking for the original documents whenever possible.
It is helpful, in the case of Arthur, to remember that women then (of any color) did not enjoy the rights that they have today. At one time, women couldn't own property in their own name unless it was joint with a man. If a woman was willed property by a parent, it would be put in their husband's name, and if they weren't married they would have an administrator or "custodian" named (who was male), to transact their business for them. They couldn't buy or sell land without their husband's permission.
We see Arthur Chronister enrolled, not by blood, but as husband and parent. Arthur was of age, and male, and capable of owning property and transacting business. He filled out the application to get compensation that the government was offering, for his wife, Mary Hinem, and for children Lawrence and Eller. He lists only two children on his application when asked to give the names and birthdates of his children.
I was incorrect before when I said that Mary apparently completed the application after Arthur's death. She did not. She was already dead when Arthur applied. Thus, the children were orphaned upon Arthur's death. It was Mary's father (or brother) who completed the application process for the sake of getting the children enrolled. The names of Mary's parents are given as:
Father's English name: Jim Hinem
Mother's English name: Jenie Hinem (now Jeni Faulkner), maiden name Jenie Blair.
That information was all on Arthur's original application. There were several letters in the file from other family members explaining other family connections on Mary Hinem's side of the family. In fact, her parents and grandparents were also enrolled.
Always consider the sources and weigh the differing evidence carefully. Would Arthur have more of it written down correctly on his application form, or would various volunteers compiling databases be more likely to have copied everything correctly without making a number of mistakes? I made a HUGE mistake when I said Art's widow completed the application. That is the nature of humans--we have trouble copying things down exactly right. I don't ever get it all right, and the people compiling databases and publishing abstracts of records don't always get it right, either. I like to look at the original papers to see what is correct.
I have something else to report that I found recently, but I'll do it in a separate message because it has nothing to do with this.
Peg
Juanita, I have looked up online and will agree with you that Lawrence is
showing 3/4. I again checked the Dawes Roll for OK Historical Society that I
have and they have Lawrence as 3/8 same as Ella.
So, I guess that means we will need to explore further. I will get out my
National Archives file after I get back in town and see if I can find anything
there.
Will send through anything I find at that time. And I do not feel you are
crossing me. Just reporting what you found and that is how it should be.
Love, Marilyn
Hi, there are 3 children,Mary-15,Ella--3 and Lawrence--1. I got this from
DATABASE=NATIVE AMERICAN DATA. Juanita
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hawley486(a)aol.com>
To: <CHRONISTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: [CHRONISTER] Cherokee
> Peggy & Juanita,
>
> I checked the CD Dawes rolls and Mary is listed as 3/4 and both children
> listed as 3/8.
>
> Marilyn
>
>
> ==== CHRONISTER Mailing List ====
> All messages posted to the Chronister Ancestry Message Board are gatewayed
> to the Chronister mailing list at Rootweb.
>
> ==============================
> Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration
> Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more.
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237
>
>
Chronister Cousins, I have found some Cherokees with our name and from our
family,Alexander Calvin Chronisters 3 child is, Arthur R,1874 married Mary
Hinem,23 Sep 1900 in Muldrow,Sequoyah,Oklahoma. and in Native American Data
I found, Art Chronister--tribe: Cherokee, Enrolliment Type:( Parent) Card
No: M3706 and Mary Chronister, tribe:
Cherokee, Enrolliment Type (Parent) Card No: M3706
Mary Chronister, age 15 Sex F,Enrolliment Type BB ( By Blood) blood %3/4
Card No: 1433 --Roll No: 3895
Ella Chronister, tribe; Cherokee,age 3 sex. F, Enrolliment Type: \
(Minor)Blood % 3/8 Card No: M3706 Roll No: 4197.
Lawrence Chronister. tribe: Cherokee,age 1, sex, M Enrolliment Type BB ( By
Blood) Blood % 3/4, Card No: 1433, Roll No:3895. My grandma Chronister was
Choctaw but, her name was Goforth
Peg, you are probably right. I have not had the file out for sometime. Now
of course you know I will have to get it out and look at it again!!!!
It'll be a good learning experience for me.
But tomorrow as I too am calling is a night at 11pm eastern time.
Marilyn
Juanita, You have the right Arthur Chronister. There were 2 children. Ella
and Lawrence.
He was deceased as was Mary when application ws made on the childrens
behalf.
I have the file from National Archives. The pages are really big. Can get
them out to look for any additional info.
Marilyn
Okay, I am ready to deal with this now, but I can tell you that I haven't
found much.
I looked at the WWI draft cards, since the census said that the head of
household, George Jackson, was a WWI veteran. On the census, George was
supposedly born in MO (that's not always true, of course, but it's all we
have to go on right now, so that's the first place I looked).
There are a number of men named George Jackson, of course. I only found one
that had a birth year that seemed close enough to the fellow in the census
to be a possibility. The man I found is George Dyer Jackson, b. 25 Jan
1895. He filled out the draft card in Austin, Travis County, TX. He says
he was born in Troy, MO (I don't know which county that's in). He was
employed by the U.S. Government, single, caucasian, tall, stout, blue eyes,
blond hair, and bald.
This guy doesn't sound very Indian to me, so it's probably the wrong one.
Guion Miller lists two women named Nancy Jackson, one from GA and one from
NC. I'll have to look at those on microfilm to see what Mary's dob is and
who she's attached to.
Peg
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hawley486(a)aol.com>
To: <CHRONISTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [CHRONISTER] Chronister, Nancy-Indian
> Evening Peggy, I tell you I have to stop reading this "stuff" >gr<.
> Actually I was looking for Nancy Walker so on & so on Chronister. George
W. wife.
> Was trying different name combinations and in doing that I found this
Nancy.
> Yes, you have the right census.
>
> Maybe one of our silent members can help with this and let Peggy get a
good
> nights rest.
> Marilyn
>
Thank you Marilyn, I think they are part of our family. Juanita
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hawley486(a)aol.com>
To: <CHRONISTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [CHRONISTER] Arthur Chronister
> Juanita, You have the right Arthur Chronister. There were 2 children.
> Ella
> and Lawrence.
> He was deceased as was Mary when application ws made on the childrens
> behalf.
>
> I have the file from National Archives. The pages are really big. Can
> get
> them out to look for any additional info.
>
> Marilyn
>
>