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Author: 63khill
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2145.5.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Just providing additional information -
I have information from a document that was signed by a Thomas Christian that indicated he was raised as a orphan by Thomas Mastin. "It appeared that Hezekiah Witt was trying to obtain a pension"
The Document in part:
"This aff???" was raised from childhood (being left an orphan) by Capt Thomas Mastin, whom he has often heard say, "??" Hezekeah Whit, the applicant for a pension in the foregoing declaration, was a soldier under him in the Cherokee expedition into Tennessee- This "aff???" knew the said Whit at the time & has known him ever since. This "a???nt" knows nothing of any other service stated by the said Whit, but he believes them to have been performed as stated. Sworn to & subscribed the day "????" above "???" in open Court. (signed by Thomas Christian)
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Author: Kennith_Simpson
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2162/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
I just got notification of another BETA Christian DNA match. Keeping in mind that virtually all BETA matches come through the MATERNAL line. This match starts with the White family in Texas/California and ends with the the Christian family in Virginia. The connecting match is Drucilla Christian the daughter of Nathaniel Christian and Jane Ewing. Drucilla was born in Green Brier Virginia and died in Missouri, Drucilla had married a Thomas Holland in 1785, Green, North Carolina. I have a number of Christians matches from Missour and NC but could never place them in my line since my line remained in Virginia and Georgia and Alabama. Drucilla would connect everything with Missouri and North Carolina.
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Author: MrsCatherinedeeAuvil
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2145.6.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
I'm just getting a chance to read these posts. I am so glad other people are interested in these mysteries. I can't really add anything because I've been opening 50 windows in my browser (how can you not?) and then my computer freezes and I really should be working. So I just dropped in to say hi and I will be back asap. I did find a curious family tree that has Thomas Christian son of Thomas Christian and --Pine as being born in Tazewell in 1809 - that means there was TBC and Thomas and Pine in Tazewell at the same time. ?
Also - why, if TBC is the son of Nathaniel why didn't he name any of his kids Nathaniel?? And Why no Jane daughters? Mastin must have been named for Thomas Mastin (can we agree on that?) But Moses Bailey?? Was there a Moses Bailey ancestor? I tried to look a little but had the computer freeze problem and now I have to go fix dinner. See you all around these parts later : )
Catherine dee Auvil
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Author: txgeezer
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2145.6.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
In my considerable experience in doing in-depth research on many families, I have found oral traditions to be almost useless, and almost always mostly wrong. Yes, there usually is some grain of truth buried in oral traditions, but you can never recognize that grain of truth until you know the whole truth.
It is too bad that we don't know who added that note about Nathaniel Christian being killed by Indians. If the note was added by the surveyor or entry taker at the time of the survey, it is likely to be highly relevant; if it was added much later, then it might not be so relevant. Assuming that the note was added at about the time of the survey, then I'll observe and speculate further:
The fact that the note was added to the 7 Oct 1773 survey, but NOT to the 26 Oct 1773 survey strongly suggests to me that there were two Nathaniel Christians who were partnered with J. Donelson in obtaining land grants, which further suggests a close relationship between the two Nathaniels (e.g., father and son?).
Usually I have found that when a man died without heirs, the land survey, like the one above, was cancelled or called off. The fact that a survey was made for a man reported to have been killed by Indians is a good hint that one of the Nathaniels (presumably the younger one since we know that Nathaniel Sr. did not die until ca. 1779) had at least a wife, and perhaps some children (for the surveyor to continue with the survey).
The wife was probably quite young, and if she had children then they were quite young - probably no more than infants. The widow probably remarried, and probably very soon after her husband was killed. If so her children, if she had any, were probably raised in the household of another name. But if there were children, there should have been a record somewhere of them being assigned a guardian. And many years later there should have been some record regarding the disposition of that property that was surveyed on 7 Oct 1773.
Just offered as food for thought...
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Author: txgeezer
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2161.1.1/mb.ashx
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Unfortunately my Christian family is mainly a maternal branch on my tree. The last male Christian in my my line was a John Christian who died in 1831. I'm sure there are other Christians "out there" who descend from this line, but I don't personally know of any.
But his father, Christopher Christian, made it pretty clear in his 1781 Will that his - Christopher's father - was Thomas, deceased in 1781, and had owned land on both sides of the Staunton River in Bedford County. That little bit of information narrows down the field of choices considerably.
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Author: Kennith_Simpson
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/869.5/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
I am related via DNA to a Christian family in Georgia, Charles Hunt Christian in Virginia had a son George who left Virginia and built a large farm or plantation in Georgia, he had a son James Allen Christian whom I share DNA with.
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Author: Kennith_Simpson
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2161.2/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
I should also add that a son of Charles City Virginia Christians, George Daniel Christian, left Virginia nad moved to Georgia around 1782, and Alabama, around 1818 do you have any relatives or ancestry in those states. A son James Allen Christian is connected to me by DNA. They both go back to Charles Hunt Christian, Charles City Virginia and Goochland, Virginia.
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Author: Kennith_Simpson
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2161.1/mb.ashx
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I was wondering, has any one in your family (male) taken a Y-DNA test. That would be the surest way of making the connections. I had the Y-DNA test (46 Marker) done and I also had the BETA Ethnicity test done, I have a Hanna Christian, born in 1680, Craven North Carolina. But all other matches are from Tennessee and Virginia.
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Author: Kennith_Simpson
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2160.1/mb.ashx
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This is new information, great, thanks. I believe this is the first indication or evidence of the death of a member of the Christian family by Indians. Lots to look into.
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Author: Kennith_Simpson
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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This is very interesting, it goes back to 1726. Now if we can just show if either of these Thomas Christians were any where near Tazewell we could begin to make a connection. But of importance as well is if we can show any of these Christians in the area because we need to find out who the father of Thomas Bailey Christian was.
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Author: Kennith_Simpson
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2145.6/mb.ashx
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I think the DNA results speaks for itself. The hunches you have raised are really interesting and valid.
This is very interesting, I have found nothing pertaining to the birth of Elinipsico. Another interesting fact is that outside of the message forums, I have yet to uncover a single article that supports the taking in of the children by Mr. Mastin. Everything pertaining to Mr. Mastin and the orphans comes from oral history handed down by the descendants.
There is ample evidence to show that Mr. Mastin, Chief Cornstalk and Elinipsico were in fact historical figures, But there is not a single thread of evidence that establishes the relationship between these individuals and Thomas Bailey Christian, other than a statement by Hezekiah Whitt that refers to TBC as a brother. If anything TBC is simply (as they say) gulty by association. TBC lived and died at the time listed and may have been aware of the others but there is nothing crediable to establish anything other than guilt by association.
I know that everyone talks about Oral Tradition etc. I would agree that it would be substantial, if it were not for the fact that so much documentation does exist that includes Mastin, Cornstalk and Elinipsico thier lives and battles, their families. Yet not one mentions TBC or the connections.
If this story was about me or my brother and our past, I would say that oral tradition would be acceptabile based on the fact that nothing would be written about us since we are not note worthy. But all the characters in this story, Cornstalk, his family, including his sister and brother, Thomas Mastin and his place in the history of the frontier are all written about. They are of historical importance. Yet not one word in any historical document connects these individuals with TBC or Mr. Mastin. There is not a single shred of evidence to show that Thomas Mastin took 4 Indian orphans and raised them. There is nothing that indicates that Chief Cornstalk or his son Elinipsico, ever even knew a TBC. There are books written about the Shawanee wars and skirmishes against the white. Thomas Mastin did fight in the Indian Wars, he did kill Shawanee Indians but there is nothing to show that he ever actually obtained the release of any captives or took in any orphans except for t!
he oral history or tradition.
In my mind it simply does not hold water that at the death of Chief Cornstalk, his son Elinipsico and Red Hawk, that the taking of any child of his family would have gone unnoticed or unreported. Indian Wars were fought over the death of the Chief. These children, if any were his would have been pawns in any political circle, white or Indian.
I have found no evidence that the Shawanee nation recognizes TBC as a descendant of the Cornstalk family. Yet the Cherokee and Shawanee Nations would have the most to gain if it could be shown that a son of Elinipsico survived the Indian Wars.
There is simply no credible evidence to link TBC to any NA ancestry. There is no credible evidence to link any of the orphans to Thomas Mastin as adopted children in the sense that we today understand adoption. There is evidence that TBC and Thomas Mastin may have known each other and may have in fact been neighbors at one time, but nothing to associate that relationship with blood lines or emotional ties.
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Author: txgeezer
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2145.5/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Since speculation or hunches are allowed, please see my thread titled "Christian Riddle #2" 5 threads later than this one (dated 20 June 2013).
It just might be possible that Nathaniel Christian and wife, Jane/Jean, had an older son named Nathaniel, who was reported to be killed by Indians prior ca. Oct 1773. If this postulated Nathaniel Jr. actually existed, could he have been married, with his own son then just an infant? I'll note that there was one or more Bailey families living in Cumberland County, VA, and that Nathaniel Christian Sr. can be proved by records to have been back and forth between Cumberland County and Lunenburg, Halifax, Pittsylvania, and Bedford counties in the period from ca. 1755 through 1770, i.e., he maintained contact with his Cumberland Co. relatives. So a first son - hereby postulated to have been Nathaniel Christian Jr. - may have married a Bailey from Cumberland County.
Just a wild speculation for whatever it might be worth...
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Author: txgeezer
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2161/mb.ashx
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I am a descendant of Christopher Christian of Anson and Montgomery counties, NC. Christopher first appeared in Anson County records in 1765 when he began buying land. He died between 1781 & 1783. In the first bequest in his will (this is transcribed from the original) he left:
"Item: I give & bequeath to my Eldest son John Christian four hundred acres of land lying in the State of Virginia in Bedford County on Both sides of Stanton River it being the Plantation Whereon my father Thomas Christian decd also one Hundred acres of land on Pee Dee River adjoining the Land of Mark Allen it part of the tract of land Whereon I now live I also give to my son John one bay colt called Robert[?] also one feather bed and furniture -"
If I can take the wording of the will literally, land previously owned by his father, THOMAS CHRISTIAN, was located on BOTH SIDES of the Staunton River in Bedford County. In 1781 the only location that would meet that description is somewhere along the Staunton River that now separates Bedford and Franklin counties (Franklin was created from Bedford). This land would then appear to be under what is now Smith Mountain Lake through which the county line runs. There a number of other records that show that Nathaniel Christian purchased and owned land on the Blackwater River and Bull Run in the same immediate area. I suspect, therefore, that Nathaniel and Thomas Christian were brothers, and the sons of who is generally referred to as Thomas Christian (III).
Another clue that I might be on the right track is the fact that a Jesse Christian appeared in a few Anson County records prior to his moving on to SC, e.g.,
"[12 Jul 1774] ... Ord. Joseph Bell be overseer of rd fr. mouth of Huwary to John Nelsons on Clarke Cr. and that hands Sam'l Swearingen, Britain Harris, JESSE CHRISTIAN, Shadrack Hogan, Turner Harris, Christopher Chappell, Henry Queen, Chas. Prichard, James Sargent, Josiah Taylor, John Schreinsher, John Schrimshire, Jr., Chas. Trysell, Christopher Munday, Thompson Clemmons, Arthur Munday, Wm. Clemmons, Sam'l Munday, Thomas Horn, Nathaniel Bell work same." ["Abstracts of County Court Minutes, 1771-1777" - McBee, May Wilson, Anson County, North Carolina: Abstracts of Early Records, p. 91.]
"CHRISTOPHER CHRISTIAN 10 July 1778 - 3 September 1779; 300 a ne Peedee on Rocky Creek and Monger's Road; including Phillips Cabbins and Samuel Swearingen's imp.; survey 15 Jul 1778 by Wm. Love, Dep. Surv.; ch: JESSE CHRISTIAN, Samuel Swearingen." ["Abstracts of Land Grant Surveys - #4098" - McBee, May Wilson, Anson County, North Carolina, Abstracts of Early Records, p. 24.]
"JESSE CHRISTIAN 100 ac; Anson Co warrant #721 issued 21 Dec 1778 by David Love to Jesse Christian for 100 ac on NE of Pee Dee [R], below mouth of Rockey Cr, joins his brother's upper line, & includes his own improvement; 100 ac surveyed 11 May 1780 by Mark Allen; on NE side of Yadkin R; border: begins at CHRISTOPHER CHRISTIAN'S upper line; Nathan Briggs & JESSE CHRISTIAN, chain carriers; grant #104 issued 11 Oct 1783." ["#103" - Pruitt, Dr. A. B., Land Warrants & Surveys, Montgomery Co, NC, Part 1 (1778-1833), p. 11.]
"10 Mar 1795 - JESSE CHRISTIAN and Rachel Christian, His wife, of Greenville County in the State of South Carolina, to JOHN CHRISTIAN of the County of Montgomery, N.C. - 200 pds. - 100 acres - Tract granted to the said JESSE CHRISTIAN by pattent dated 11 Oct 1783 - lying on the N.E. side of the Pee Dee River - including the improvements where Colbey Randle now lives - joining CHRISTOPHER CHRISTIAN. Wit: Bunyan Orr, Christopher Cleark, Champnest Dellingham. Signed: JESSE (x) CHRISTIAN, Rachel (x) Christian." ["P. 132" - Jackson, Vivan Poe, Montgomery County, North Carolina, the Earliest Extant Deeds, 1774-1842, p. 4.]
If Christopher Christian was a son of Thomas Christian (IV) (as it sure looks might be possible), then another uncle of Christopher Christian was JESSE CHRISTIAN (and there were not too many Jesses running around VA and NC in that time frame). Though I cannot say that the Jesse in the above deeds was the Uncle Jesse, I think it is a remarkable coincidence that someone of that name would appear in Anson & Montgomery counties apparently closely associated with Christopher Christian.
Based on the fact that Nathaniel and his presumed brother, Thomas, were moving around southern VA, living on adjacent properties, witnessing each other's deeds, etc., and ended up on adjacent properties in Bedford County near the Staunton River, it sure seems likely to me that Christopher's father, Thomas, explicitly named in Christopher's will was Thomas (IV) in the common construct of the Christian family. Agnes Branch Pearlman, editor of the Christian Family Chronicles, apparently thought so, too. And the fact that a Jesse Christian passed through the Anson/Montgomery County area is just icing on the cake.
BUT THERE IS A PROBLEM! As stated above, Christopher Christian first started buying land in Anson County in 1764. If I assume that he was 21 years old at the time, then he would have been born ca. 1743, or before. And that would make him too old to have been the son of Thomas Christian who "everybody" claims was born ca. 1728. It gets worse, because in 1759 a Christopher Christian is on record in Cumberland Co., VA., for guarding a prisoner:
"[Cumberland County, Va.] 23 Jan 1759 ...
To Christopher Christian for Guarding Markum 9 days 225"
"[Cumberland County, Va.] 28 Jul 1760 ... On the Petition and Summons brought by Josiah Thompson, Plt. agt. Christopher Christian, Deft. for Forty one shillings due by account. The plt. to recover debt with costs." ["Part III, pp. 26, 212" - Fretwell, Shela S., Abstracts of the Cumberland County, Virginia, Court Order Books from May 1756 to June 1762, pp. 58, 113.]
I think young lad could be, and often was, employed to guard prisoners. If we assume that the above Christopher (and there weren't too many of them either) was the same one who showed up in Anson County in 1764, and that he was only 16 when the above records were made, then he would have been born 1743, or earlier, if we assume he was older than 16.
I'm stumped! Until I start running a sanity check on dates, it looks almost certain that Christopher Christian's father, Thomas, was the son of Thomas Christian (III). Something, then, seems to be wrong with all the assumptions everyone has made about Thomas Christian (IV), son of Thomas Christian (III), or else I've been led down a wrong track by some pretty amazing coincidences.
Since the answer to this riddle may affect a number of other assumptions people have made about the sons of Thomas Christian (III) I would hope that more people than just me would be interested in finding the answer.
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Author: txgeezer
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2160/mb.ashx
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I've been following Nathaniel and his alleged brother, Thomas Christian, through records of their wanderings in Lunenburg (now Charlotte), Halifax, Pittsylvania, and Bedford counties. (I think I might be a descendant of Thomas Christian).
Everybody knows that Nathaniel Christian died in 1779 in Montgomery County, VA, where his widow Jane/Jean was named the administratrix of his estate. So I was much surprised to find the following:
7 Oct 1773
"Nathaniel Christian & J. Donelson Enters 800 ac in two Surveys beg. at Ballards cor. R.O. on White Oak br. th. along his line and off each way. THE ABOVE MENTION'D N. CHRISTIAN KILLED BY THE INDIANS." [Chiarito, Marian Dodson, Entry Record Book, 1770-1796, (Land Entries in the Present Virginia Counties of Pittsylvania, Henry, Franklin and Patrick), p. 35.]
26 Oct 1773
"Nathaniel Christian and J. Donelson Enters 400 ac on the brs. of Bull run beg. at a R.O. on the No. side of sd Run th. run.g off each way."
Bull Run is in the very northeastern corner of present-day Franklin County and emptied either into the Blackwater River or Staunton River, and this land is mostly now covered by the waters of Smith Mountain Lake. Both Nathaniel and Robert Christian had purchased land in this same immediate area previously.
So who is the Nathaniel Christian who was killed by Indians ca. 1773? Could this have possibly been another son - previously unrecognized (on this forum), of Nathaniel and Jane/Jean Christian Sr.?
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Author: txgeezer
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/2159/mb.ashx
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First of three...
I think I've pored through all the Christian postings and all the old issues of The Christian Family Chronicles, and I have not seen anyone discuss the following riddle (well, it's a riddle to me). Two deeds, both dated 1726:
"Deed 19 Jan 1726. Thomas Christian of Henrico Co., to Thomas Christian, Jr. of Charles City Co., for £ 20, land in Westover Parish, 115 acres, bounded by Stith's line, James Christian, said Thomas, Jr., Chickahominy Swamp, Petato Run; with all houses, etc.
Wit: John Boseman, Charles Christian, James Christian, Jr., Charles Christian, Jr.
Signed: Thomas Christian
Recorded 1 Feb 1726" ["P. 148" - Weisiger, Benjamin B., III, Charles City County, Virginia, Wills and Deeds, 1725-1731, p. 18.]
And...
"Deed 30 Jan 1726. Thomas Christian, Jr. of Westover Parish, Charles City Co., to James Christian of same, for £30, 115 acres in Westover Parish, bounded by Potato Run, Stith's line, said James Christian, said Thomas, Jr. and Chickahominy Swamp.
Wit: John Boseman, William Ridlehurst, Charles Christian, Jr.
Signed: Thomas Christian, Jr.
Recorded 1 Feb 1726. Elizabeth, wife of Thomas, relinquished her dower right." ["P. 149" - Weisiger, Benjamin B., III, Charles City County, Virginia, Wills and Deeds, 1725-1731, p. 18.]
I cannot be totally sure, that based on the people named in those two deeds, and the date, it sure looks to me like Thomas Christian (Sr.) was the one commonly referred to as Thomas (II), and Thomas Christian Jr. appears to be the one commonly referred to as Thomas Christian (III).
But if that is so, then it should be observed that Thomas Christian (III), in 1726, was married to an ELIZABETH! I've not seen anyone else mention this "fact." If I've identified the principal parties correctly, then how many of Thomas (III)'s children were children of Elizabeth? And when did he marry Rebecca?
If I've not named the principal parties correctly, then who was Thomas Christian Jr.?
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Author: WilliamMidgette
Surnames: CHRISTIAN, WALL(S)
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christian/869.4.1/mb.ashx
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I have the will of John Wall who died in Edgefield, SC in 1820 that was administered by Stephen Christian and Francis Hall. Would the Stephen Christian be your Stephen Chappel Christian? Is there another Christian- Wall relationship that you know of in Edgefield?
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