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Author: CandyCox51
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christensen/448.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1...
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Thank you again! I now have my mothers DNA results, and it is pointing more to the secrets being in names. My cousin I found is also Mormon, and will be in Salt Lake Utah in July. She plans on searching the records at the family center while she is there. We have some new info now, and perhaps more by then with the DNA testing. For the first time in 14 years, I see hope. I saw the name once in an obit somewhere for another family member, only it was a middle name....so I am thinking that it is relevant to our searching. I am excited to see what all my new leads will bring. You have really help me focus again :)
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Author: falsterden
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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Okay, so that report from your cousin makes a crucial difference in search strategy.
The first Mormon missionaries arrived in Denmark in the mid-1800s, before Minnie was born. My understanding is that Danes who converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints were generally not accepted by Danish society (I am not an expert in this particular aspect of Danish history!). Probably at least partly due to religious pressure, many of the early converts emigrated to the USA (they made up the first wave of Danes who who emigrated). Most settled in Utah.
Normally a Dane would register a birth with the parish pastor (such records were kept in the churchbook, rather than at a courthouse, as we do in the USA). The system worked well because everybody was Lutheran. If one or both of Minnie's parents converted, then likely her birth is not registered in a regular Danish church book. I don't know how to go about finding a Mormon birth.
But perhaps her parents did not convert, or at least did not convert before her birth. We can't know at this time what happened.
The next question mark comes at the time Minnie left Denmark. Normally a Dane would register an intent to leave with his or her pastor. The pastor then made a record of the move. I do not know in what way (if any) Mormon Danes registered an intent to leave.
The next chance to find Minnie traveling would be her entry into the USA. If she married a Mr. Colburn before marrying Bennett Courtright, then that marriage record might be your first chance to spot her in the USA. As I say, that's not really a Danish name, so one guesses (and it is only a guess) that she would have married that man (if she did) after arriving in the US.
I guess where I'm going is that probably the next best step is to search the LDS records at an LDS Family History Center or in Salt Lake (many records can be ordered on microfilm and mailed to you) and civic records in the USA (marriage, death, birth of her children, obits for her and her husband, obits for her children).
My questions remain about Pauline's birth record and about copies of originals of Minnie's marriage and death record etc.
The information I posted about a separate Danish emigration database for Danish Mormons said that the information will be put online but is not available yet. I think the link said those records are being put online but not available yet. They can be searched in person at the National Archives in Copenhagen. BUT what is the point, as you don't know who you are looking for. Only a birth record with day-month-year that matches Minnie could tell you who she is among the crowd of Mormon emigrants.
All this is speculation and not based on any deep study I've made of Mormon records and ways. Other researchers might know much more.
With the confirmation that Minnie was Mormon, one does guess it's best to search LDS first before cross checking with all those people in Pleasant Grove, Utah, Utah. However, if you have time on your hands, it couldn't hurt to develop the list of who's who in Pleasant Grove in 1900 and when he/she immigrated and where he/she was born. Since there's so much emphasis on ancestors among Mormons, there's a lot of research that's already been done on those folks and posted on Find-a-Grave (and maybe elsewhere, such as Ancestry trees). By developing a sturdy little database about that community at that time, you might be prepared to "match" Minnie with someone once your cousin (or you) have had a chance to do more searching in the LDS records and order copies of the available public records.
So that's me thinking out loud. I haven't had a chance to get back to any research. I did find a lot of girls of the right name and age in Hjorring amt in the census whose birth records could be searched, one by one. That would take quite a while, and again, it's better if we have more info on Minnie in the USA if it's possible to get it.
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Author: CandyCox51
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christensen/448.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1...
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Sometimes I scare myself. LOL My newly found cousin, who descends from one of Minnes children says she was told Minne was excommunicated from the LDS church.....we ARE talking about Mormon family here. How can I go about searching the lost files during the years you talked about. I am real convinced now that the alt name is relative to this. Also the name colburn has cropped up before. My cousin will be in Salt lake in July....and she plans to search records again. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your fresh look at this.....I truly believe we are on the right path now. How can we go wrong when we have 2 die hard genealogists in this family ;)
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Author: falsterden
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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Do you have a copy of the original of Pauline's birth or baptism record? Are you saying various other records for her show various names? Can you specify?
You might be onto something there, with that speculation about a previous marriage for Minnie. Here are names in the Danish census, searching all years 1787 onward, in all parts of Denmark, at Dansk Demografisk Database, for names that start with "Colb":
Colb, Colbjørn, Colbiørn, Colbye, Colberg, Colbe, Colber, Colbak, Colbeck, Colback, Colbiverssen, Colbendsen, Colbyalsen, Colbrue, Colbanus, Colboe
Colbrine was the only female first name starting with Colb and belonged to only one woman.
.
One woman born in Germany was in the census in Sydslesvig in 1803 with surname Colbens, and another, same area, with surname Colbaum.
I see some women born in Denmark and named Colburn in the US census, but they are married.
Don't know if this applies - but I'll toss it out for your evaluation - sometimes Danish immigrants flip flopped from one surname to the other. They might use their patronymic one time (child of Christen = Christensen) and use their father's patronymic or other last name another time. Maybe they were torn between the two cultures and undecided about which name to use, or they just didn't notice their own variations, or someone else gave the information to the record keeper, etc. So Minnie could be Christensen in one sense and Colbjørnsen in another - but the name on that birth record is Colburn. If that = Colbjørn, that's a male first name. It should have "sen" or "datter" added to it if Minnie is using it as her own Danish surname.
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Author: CandyCox51
Surnames:
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I noticed the use of Minne in records at times, and other times not. I recently returned to this branch so I have to keep digging into my older notes when I was chasing leads. I also have considered she may have married previously since the records show her as 21 when married to BB. That seems older aged to marry back in those days (especially with mormon's), but not unheard of. I also wonder if that alt name was mispelled. I am hoping my mother's DNA will shed further light on other danish names I keep seeing in matches, and possibly solve this old mystery. Perhaps she was married to a polygamist herself, and that was the BIG secret. New day today, so I am going to be digging more. LOL
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Author: falsterden
Surnames:
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Culbrun!? That's surprising. Does not sound like a Danish name or place, but I don't know for sure. Can you get or do you have the original of that record? Maybe it's an error in transcription. BTW I'm happy you've found someone who might be willing to share the bother and expense of ordering copies of originals. One possibility is that Minnie was married before she married Bennett Courtright. Her marriage record (to him) calls her Christensen, but she might have used her maiden name for that.
Yes the records for her children can yield clues so good for you for combing through and posting those as you're able. Another researcher or two may come along and might be able to use a clue even if we don't make headway with it.
Another thing to check on FAG is whether any of the Danes in Pleasant Grove are noted as NOT from Hjørring. Their years of immigration (as noted in 1900 census) are relevant, as it's unlikely a Christensen family that arrived decades before Minnie would be related (given the Danish patronymic probably got frozen in the USA into a permanent surname, whereas that might not be the case in Denmark).
Another idea - based on the census records you've posted, daughter Pauline was called Minnie. What was Pauline's full name? Is she perhaps named for her mother?
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Author: falsterden
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Culbrun!? That's surprising. Can you get or do you have the original of that record? Maybe it's an error in transcription.
Yes the records for her children can yield clues so good for you for combing through and posting those as you're able. Another researcher or two may come along and might be able to use a clue even if we don't make headway with it.
Just to let you know I will take another look for candidates, one girl to be investigated, below.
1880
Hjørring, Vennebjerg, Rubjerg, Rubjerg, Ulstrup By, en Gaard, 57 [ 13 ], FT-1880, C2703
Jens Peter Christiansen 28 Gift Husfader, Gaardejer Rubjerg Sogn, Hjørring Amt
Ane Jensen 32 Gift hans Kone Rubjerg Sogn, Hjørring Amt
Dorthea Kjerstine Christiansen 11 Ugift deres Børn Rubjerg Sogn, Hjørring Amt
Jensine Kjerstine Christiansen 10 Ugift deres Børn Rubjerg Sogn, Hjørring Amt
Christian Christiansen 8 Ugift deres Børn Rubjerg Sogn, Hjørring Amt
Vilhelmine Christiansen 5 Ugift deres Børn Rubjerg Sogn, Hjørring Amt
Johanne Marie Christiansen under 1 Aar Ugift deres Børn Rubjerg Sogn, Hjørring Amt
Christian Villumsen 71 Enkemand Husfaderens Fader, der af ham forsørges Rubjerg Sogn, Hjørring Amt
Ane Kjerstine Christensen 24 Ugift Tjenestepige (servant) Rubjerg Sogn, Hjørring Amt
Another thing to check is whether any of the Danes in Pleasant Grove were NOT from Hjørring.
Their years of immigration are relevant, as it's unlikely a Christensen family that arrived decades before Minnie would be related (given the Danish patronymic probably got frozen in the USA into a permanent surname, whereas that might not be the case in Denmark).
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Author: CandyCox51
Surnames:
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Hahaha! I never met a person I couldn't talk an ear off of ;) I just found a note I tucked away....this was on Salt Lakes Mormon repository:
Minnie Culbrun was listed as her name when Wesley was born via Family search center:
Bennett Courtwright in entry for Wesley B Courtwright, "Utah, Salt Lake County Birth Records, 1890-1915" Name: Wesley B Courtwright Event Type: Birth Event Date: 25 Jul 1898 Event Place: Salt Lake, Utah Gender: Male Race: W Father's Name: Bennett Courtwright Mother's Name: Minnie Culbrun Source Reference: line 7690 Digital Folder Number: 004121046 Image Number: 00037
Ever hear of this sir name? I never found anything with it
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Author: falsterden
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Bravo!
Masterpiece Theater time here...
To be continued, lol.
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Author: CandyCox51
Surnames:
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Yay....I got a response from the other researcher and she is my cousin!!!! Maybe we can pool resources to get to the bottom of this. She appears to not have any newer info than I do....but I will see if she has ordered any documents yet.
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Author: falsterden
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Well family stories are usually a mix of fact and fantasy and/or mistakes and misunderstandings, but I take them seriously.
Yes, most often a girl of 14 wouldn't travel alone, but if she immigrated in 1894 she would be about 18. "Alone" could mean no parents. She could have traveled with a sibling - or be traveling alone but expecting to join family/friends in the USA. Also, if she was Mormon. it is kind of likely she traveled with a group of fellow believers, so in that case she would be under the protection of that community.
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Author: CandyCox51
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You rock! I checked through those hoping maybe a family first name would pop us (in case she named them after relatives) none sound familiar and children not b on her bd. I wish the people who I strongly match in 4-5 generations would respond to me. LOL I see a lot of other denmark names....and some are full danish, so I know we are related through her line. I don't believe her story the family says happened....she immigrated her at 14 by herself?????
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Author: falsterden
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Yes, you're right, we really need to keep an open mind about the hypothesis statements - it's just a set of maybes that enable searching in a direction, as a place to start. I did look at Christensens and Christiansens in Pleasant Grove in 1900 and welcome your take on them - there are quite a few.
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Author: CandyCox51
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OK, going to regroup and search for relatives in Pleasant Grove Utah. I have been trying to be careful of assuming what others have posted....but E very well may be her middle initial.
Candy
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Author: CandyCox51
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Those are great questions....and since doing genealogy for the past 14 years....I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO patient. LOL. I will drill my mother again. Perhaps the religion is the reason for the secrecy. The 1900, 1910, and 1920 census all give different immigration years, but my guess would be about 1894 ish. I have never sent for a death record...when I was in Oregon, and at the courthouse doing research, the 50 yrs had not passed to enable genealogy ordering of death cert. Thank you so much for all your help! I was hoping for an obit, but so far have not found one.
Candy
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Author: falsterden
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Good idea! (note for FAG creator)
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Author: CandyCox51
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.christensen/448.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Western states marriages show this:
Details For Marriage ID#311533
Groom Last Name: COURTWRIGHT
Groom First Name: Bennett B. (21)
Groom Residence: Salt Lake City
Bride Last Name: CHRISTENSEN
Bride First Name: Minnie (21)
Bride Residence: Pleasant Grove
Place: Salt Lake City
Date: 27 Sep 1897
County of Record: Salt Lake
State: Utah
Volume: H
Page: 142
Minnie Christensen Courtright
Birth: Jul. 20, 1876, Denmark
Death: May 1, 1959
Oregon, USA
Burial:
Sunset Memorial Park
Coos Bay
Coos County
Oregon, USA
Created by: Grandpa Gene's Girl
Record added: Feb 18, 2010
Find A Grave Memorial# 48306093
I have left a not for the creator of the memorial...her and her daughter leave virtual flowers and notes on the memorial page....they seem to know her, hopefully they will respond.
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Author: falsterden
Surnames:
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As we talked about she might be Vilhelmine (or Wilhelmine if she came from southern Jutland, where German spellings are common). She might be --?-- Vilhelmine and was called by a middle name. She might have a father Christian/Christen or a father --?-- Christensen/Christiansen. What does the 1900 census say about her year of immigration? This might be a tough one. Your patience is appreciated! As I mentioned, I have searched the Danish emigration archives, the Danish census, etc., and haven't turned her up, but that is just the first go-round.
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Author: CandyCox51
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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Ancestry record:
Utah, Select County Marriages, 1887-1937 about Minnie Christensen
Name: Minnie Christensen
Gender: Female
Age: 21
Birth Date: 1876
Marriage Date: 27 Sep 1897
Marriage Place: Salt Lake, Utah, United States
Spouse: Bennett B. Courtwright
FHL Film Number: 429057
Familysearch online (Mormon site) does not have marriage records listed. I may have to send off for that after all.
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Author: CandyCox51
Surnames:
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OK....going to go one at a time. LOL My mother is still alive and can only tell me Minnie was very secretive, as was my great grandmother, grandmother, and yes even my mother holds back info sometimes. Nobody I know in my family has ever heard of any siblings, nor have they heard a middle name for her. She passed away in a sanitarium, although we do not know why she was there. I have a cousin who remembers her (I was only 1 1/2 yrs old when she died) and says she was prone to flying off the handle in violent rages in her older age. Possibly dementia or alzheimers disease would be my guess. I have to check all my research to see where I saw the alt spelling. Here is the 1900 census:
1900 United States Federal Census about Minnie Courtwright
Name: Minnie Courtwright
Age: 23
Birth Date: Jul 1876
Birthplace: Denmark
[Tennessee]
Home in 1900: Salt Lake City Ward 2, Salt Lake, Utah
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Bennet Courtwright
Marriage Year: 1897
Years Married: 3
Father's Birthplace: Denmark
Mother's Birthplace: Denmark
Mother: number of living children: 1
Mother: How many children: 1
Bennet Courtwright 20
Minnie Courtwright 23
I will post all my sourcing info hereafter
Candy
Westly Courtwright 1
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