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Hi Joe,
My husband has CHOATE and MATLOCK ancestors, and I think you and I might
have corresponded before some years ago. I haven't worked on these lines in
quite some time.
I'd like to know if you or anyone else on the list might have information on
Lucien CHOATE. I think his full name might have been Isom Lucien CHOATE.
His parents might have been James Levi CHOATE and Jane HOOPER. I think Lucien
was b. abt. 1861 in Dickson or Humphreys County. I have been told he was
married possibly 3 times and died 1940 in Collin Co, TX.
I'm hoping to gather some proven info on Lucien and perhaps correspond with
some of his descendants.
Thanks,
Robyn
In a message dated 12/29/2008 6:46:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,
Joe.Matlock(a)state.tn.us writes:
I will check the book when I get the chance but I find this most
interesting...documentation of Native American ancestry is not as easy to prove as some
would believe and this is one of the first ones I have seen in one of my
lines. Moses Choate would be my 4th great grand uncle his grand nephew Squire
Jackson Choate married Orleana Sanders (John Sanders and Susan West)... There
son James Marion Choate was my great grand father. He had bought and sold
land with Sanders family in Dickson County Tennessee. Do you know of any
connection between John Sanders b 1797 d 1848 and the Samual Sanders mentioned
below?
Joe Matlock
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom000...)
Berlene ,and Joe I also have heard the name Saunders/Sanders mentioned in my
Choate/Lankford line from Warren/Marion/Grundy Co TN.
Roy.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Matlock" <Joe.Matlock(a)state.tn.us>
To: <CHOATE-L(a)rootsweb.com>; <tawquish(a)yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [CHOATE] Moses Choate's Wife
>I will check the book when I get the chance but I find this most
>interesting...documentation of Native American ancestry is not as easy to
>prove as some would believe and this is one of the first ones I have seen
>in one of my lines. Moses Choate would be my 4th great grand uncle his
>grand nephew Squire Jackson Choate married Orleana Sanders (John Sanders
>and Susan West)... There son James Marion Choate was my great grand father.
>He had bought and sold land with Sanders family in Dickson County
>Tennessee. Do you know of any connection between John Sanders b 1797 d
>1848 and the Samual Sanders mentioned below?
>
> Joe Matlock
>
>
>>>> Berlene Jacques <tawquish(a)yahoo.com> 12/29/08 11:23 AM >>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For Choate researchers,
>
> I ran into an on-line book called "Shawnee Heritage" by Noel Schulz and
> Shawnee Professor Don Greene. I found two reviews for the book which
> were both negative but if you read the introduction, Dr. Greene explains
> his work and why he didn't add a bibliography or sources to his work.
>
> This book tells the genealogy of Shawnee families. Within this book is
> the family line of Samuel Sanders and Pashika of the Shawnee Pekowi clan.
>
> There is no name mentioned but "Youngest Daughter" of Samuel Sanders and
> Pashika married Moses Choate according to the authors and that she was the
> mother of Silas, Edward, Sanders and James. (NOTE: I have recently
> discovered another brother John Choate b. ca. 1785).
>
> The "Oldest Daughter" of Samuel and Pashika married Adam Brown Jr. I was
> able to trace the daughter of Adam Brown Jr., Nancy Guthery (sic, should
> be Guthrie), and found her living in 1880 in Richland, Labette County,
> Kansas. Her mother is living with her but her name is really hard to
> figure out and it could be either Teresia or Ledisia Brown. She is
> listed as Indian and is 75 years old and a widow who was born in Canada.
> The book states that Teresa/Ledisia was born in the late 1760's, which
> doesn't match with the census record who puts her as being born ca. 1805.
> Of course back then, most Indian people didn't know what year they were
> born.
>
> The book also states that "Youngest Daughter" Sanders Choate was born
> about 1764 and died in Mississippi about 1820.
>
> Samuel Sanders' (or Saunders) background states the he was born about 1745
> in England and that he was "caught pinching coins" and sentenced to life
> in the colonies as an indentured servant/laborer in Virginia. He arrived
> in 1760 where he immediately escaped. He is said to have gone into North
> Carolina where he some how connected with Daniel Boone and was with him
> during several of Daniel's expeditions. Eventually, Samuel was captured
> by the Shawnee and ended up being "adopted" into the tribe and he married
> Pashika. He and Pashika had four children before she passed away. They
> were Nancy, Unnamed Daughter Choate, James and Samuel Jr.
>
> After Pashika's death, Samuel then married a Wyandot Woman and was
> "adopted" into the Wyandot tribe. They had a son who was named Jonathan
> Sanders. The Wyandot Woman died soon after Jonathan's birth.
>
> Samuel then is said to have married a Cherokee Woman and had children but
> the authors didn't expand on this marriage.
>
> I did some searching on the web and found Samuel Sanders mentioned on the
> Wyandot
> Tribal website, Pilot Point War as an interpreteur (government website),
> Early Jewish Settlers in America (Samuel is named as a "yound Jewish
> boy"), Tecumseh and the Baptist Church webpages. It is stated on many of
> the websites that Samuel, his son Samuel Jr and the Prophet went into
> Canada where Samuel Sr. died and that he had never returned to the "white
> world" once he had been taken by the Indians.
>
> Two things of interest....on the records regarding the Baptist Church,
> Samuel Jr. is a member along with Sugg Fort. Also during the Pilot Point
> period, Samuel's son James is a militiaman with the Americans and also
> Emanuel Shoatt (sic).
>
> Just a little bit of information for everyone to ponder.
>
> Berlene
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CHOATE-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CHOATE-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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10:48 AM
I will check the book when I get the chance but I find this most interesting...documentation of Native American ancestry is not as easy to prove as some would believe and this is one of the first ones I have seen in one of my lines. Moses Choate would be my 4th great grand uncle his grand nephew Squire Jackson Choate married Orleana Sanders (John Sanders and Susan West)... There son James Marion Choate was my great grand father. He had bought and sold land with Sanders family in Dickson County Tennessee. Do you know of any connection between John Sanders b 1797 d 1848 and the Samual Sanders mentioned below?
Joe Matlock
>>> Berlene Jacques <tawquish(a)yahoo.com> 12/29/08 11:23 AM >>>
For Choate researchers,
I ran into an on-line book called "Shawnee Heritage" by Noel Schulz and Shawnee Professor Don Greene. I found two reviews for the book which were both negative but if you read the introduction, Dr. Greene explains his work and why he didn't add a bibliography or sources to his work.
This book tells the genealogy of Shawnee families. Within this book is the family line of Samuel Sanders and Pashika of the Shawnee Pekowi clan.
There is no name mentioned but "Youngest Daughter" of Samuel Sanders and Pashika married Moses Choate according to the authors and that she was the mother of Silas, Edward, Sanders and James. (NOTE: I have recently discovered another brother John Choate b. ca. 1785).
The "Oldest Daughter" of Samuel and Pashika married Adam Brown Jr. I was able to trace the daughter of Adam Brown Jr., Nancy Guthery (sic, should be Guthrie), and found her living in 1880 in Richland, Labette County, Kansas. Her mother is living with her but her name is really hard to figure out and it could be either Teresia or Ledisia Brown. She is listed as Indian and is 75 years old and a widow who was born in Canada. The book states that Teresa/Ledisia was born in the late 1760's, which doesn't match with the census record who puts her as being born ca. 1805. Of course back then, most Indian people didn't know what year they were born.
The book also states that "Youngest Daughter" Sanders Choate was born about 1764 and died in Mississippi about 1820.
Samuel Sanders' (or Saunders) background states the he was born about 1745 in England and that he was "caught pinching coins" and sentenced to life in the colonies as an indentured servant/laborer in Virginia. He arrived in 1760 where he immediately escaped. He is said to have gone into North Carolina where he some how connected with Daniel Boone and was with him during several of Daniel's expeditions. Eventually, Samuel was captured by the Shawnee and ended up being "adopted" into the tribe and he married Pashika. He and Pashika had four children before she passed away. They were Nancy, Unnamed Daughter Choate, James and Samuel Jr.
After Pashika's death, Samuel then married a Wyandot Woman and was "adopted" into the Wyandot tribe. They had a son who was named Jonathan Sanders. The Wyandot Woman died soon after Jonathan's birth.
Samuel then is said to have married a Cherokee Woman and had children but the authors didn't expand on this marriage.
I did some searching on the web and found Samuel Sanders mentioned on the Wyandot
Tribal website, Pilot Point War as an interpreteur (government website), Early Jewish Settlers in America (Samuel is named as a "yound Jewish boy"), Tecumseh and the Baptist Church webpages. It is stated on many of the websites that Samuel, his son Samuel Jr and the Prophet went into Canada where Samuel Sr. died and that he had never returned to the "white world" once he had been taken by the Indians.
Two things of interest....on the records regarding the Baptist Church, Samuel Jr. is a member along with Sugg Fort. Also during the Pilot Point period, Samuel's son James is a militiaman with the Americans and also Emanuel Shoatt (sic).
Just a little bit of information for everyone to ponder.
Berlene
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CHOATE-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
For Choate researchers,
I ran into an on-line book called "Shawnee Heritage" by Noel Schulz and Shawnee Professor Don Greene. I found two reviews for the book which were both negative but if you read the introduction, Dr. Greene explains his work and why he didn't add a bibliography or sources to his work.
This book tells the genealogy of Shawnee families. Within this book is the family line of Samuel Sanders and Pashika of the Shawnee Pekowi clan.
There is no name mentioned but "Youngest Daughter" of Samuel Sanders and Pashika married Moses Choate according to the authors and that she was the mother of Silas, Edward, Sanders and James. (NOTE: I have recently discovered another brother John Choate b. ca. 1785).
The "Oldest Daughter" of Samuel and Pashika married Adam Brown Jr. I was able to trace the daughter of Adam Brown Jr., Nancy Guthery (sic, should be Guthrie), and found her living in 1880 in Richland, Labette County, Kansas. Her mother is living with her but her name is really hard to figure out and it could be either Teresia or Ledisia Brown. She is listed as Indian and is 75 years old and a widow who was born in Canada. The book states that Teresa/Ledisia was born in the late 1760's, which doesn't match with the census record who puts her as being born ca. 1805. Of course back then, most Indian people didn't know what year they were born.
The book also states that "Youngest Daughter" Sanders Choate was born about 1764 and died in Mississippi about 1820.
Samuel Sanders' (or Saunders) background states the he was born about 1745 in England and that he was "caught pinching coins" and sentenced to life in the colonies as an indentured servant/laborer in Virginia. He arrived in 1760 where he immediately escaped. He is said to have gone into North Carolina where he some how connected with Daniel Boone and was with him during several of Daniel's expeditions. Eventually, Samuel was captured by the Shawnee and ended up being "adopted" into the tribe and he married Pashika. He and Pashika had four children before she passed away. They were Nancy, Unnamed Daughter Choate, James and Samuel Jr.
After Pashika's death, Samuel then married a Wyandot Woman and was "adopted" into the Wyandot tribe. They had a son who was named Jonathan Sanders. The Wyandot Woman died soon after Jonathan's birth.
Samuel then is said to have married a Cherokee Woman and had children but the authors didn't expand on this marriage.
I did some searching on the web and found Samuel Sanders mentioned on the Wyandot
Tribal website, Pilot Point War as an interpreteur (government website), Early Jewish Settlers in America (Samuel is named as a "yound Jewish boy"), Tecumseh and the Baptist Church webpages. It is stated on many of the websites that Samuel, his son Samuel Jr and the Prophet went into Canada where Samuel Sr. died and that he had never returned to the "white world" once he had been taken by the Indians.
Two things of interest....on the records regarding the Baptist Church, Samuel Jr. is a member along with Sugg Fort. Also during the Pilot Point period, Samuel's son James is a militiaman with the Americans and also Emanuel Shoatt (sic).
Just a little bit of information for everyone to ponder.
Berlene
Dear Bruce,
I believe I have written you times before on my Choate ancestors......I know of a couple of errors that you have attributed to me on your list, and would like to clear some of them up..........please..........
My maternal grandmother was Hattie Orilla (Ora) Choate who was married to James Tully Biggs........I know she was married only once and it was to James Tully Biggs---there is no Upchurch connection.............also you mention that Hattie and James were 3rd cousins..........that's not true, either...........it was James Tully Biggs parents: Joseph Biggs and Anna Elizabeth Biggs who were 3rd cousins.............they were originally from MS and died in Lorenzo, TX................
There was no birth certificate for Hattie, but Granny said that she didn't like the name Orilla, so she shortened it to Ora, and that was the name she put on her social security and the name she put down whenever she was asked as well as?when she married.......Most everyone called her Hattie, but her grandchildren and great grandchildren called her Granny Biggs................
As for a George W. Choate being one of her siblings, there was no George W..............her brother was Wade Hampton Choate.......I spent a lot of time with them in Keller and Roanoke, TX when I was young, along with a cousin Samuel (Sam) Williams of theirs, who also was from Fentress Co., TN.
I know the Choate line probably isn't your direct lineage, and I see what I believe to be a lot of questionable parentage issues, but then I am not a professional in this genealogy........maybe there are others on the Fentress list who want to check out their Choate lineage questions, to help clear up some discrepancies that have occurred over the years in this name?that might resolve some of these older issues.
Everyone appreciates all of your hard and dedicated work through the years in that beloved county, as do I..............Thanks so very much......Bev Casey, Tecumseh, OK