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Author: rpchisholm
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.chisholm/478.1.1.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1.1.1....
Message Board Post:
Hi Leonard. Re John"D" and his description of himself: there are many salt licks in olde Eastern Tennessee, You need totale olde JD's description with a lick of that salt. If he was Scottish born and came to the new World at an age older than when he learnt to speak,somebody would sureley have commented on his manner of speech when describing him. Especially if a Highlander, where English was a second language. The 1777 date rings alarm bells, if he meant that he came from Scotland to New York oi that time period, as the Scots themselves stopped emigration, and ships which may have arrived were attended to by the Royal navy. Take the case of the Glasgow, the very last emigrant ship from Scotland (1775).On its way to new York, with many Chisholms on board, bound for Johnson's Grant up the Mohawk,it was waylaid by the Royal Navy and the emigrants were pressed into redcoats. Some managed to make south carolina in a naval excursion, they ended up as prisoners of the rebels,p!
oor old Brits couldnt figure out the tides and channels and were sitting ducks. I dont think olde John D came to Charleston via this way. For me, North carolina seems a reasonable place for him to have been born or raised if he ca]me as a youngster. He is very conspicuous by his absence from the records of the revolutionary war, and I think there may have been more than a few fence sitters up there. The bottom line seems to be that he was no greenhorn Johnny come lately with the way he got around the frontier and worked his way with the Cherokee.
Now the last part of your post, that Thomas and John Chisholm on the Savannah, reputed to be nephews of Anne Bulloch. This is a myth which started off from a rather innocent "musing" by the highly respected Meredith Colkert back in 1984. He simply wondered if Thomas Chisholm on the south side of the Savannah, and John on the north bank,could be the nephews of Anne Bulloch, wife of the GA governor, and proprietor of the Mulberry plantation, because she did indeed mention them in her will, as secondary benificiaries if their mother (Anne's sister) was unable to benefit from the will. Now Meredith Colkert would have known that this is a starting point for research and investigation, he mused that maybe their mother had died and Anne had bought these youngsters up in Georgia. If he had had internet capability he would have found that the two younger sons of Rev Thomas of Kilmorack, were not in Georgia as youngsters, John being tagged by a deed in 1754, and Thomas by a marriage!
in Kintail about 1764. Rather unfortunately, the Colkert musing was written up in a Clan Chisholm Society publication as being fact, and the story thereafter took off. Never however has the Clan Chisholm genealogist accepted this version. The DNA project threw up more logical conclusions,that is the descendants of Lt Thomas Chisholm in Georgia, and John Chisholm in SC, are 100% matches to the descendants of Adam Chisholms son David. This Y chromosome profile contains several distinctive featuires, enough to say that its not a coincidence, because they do also match, but to a slightly a lesser degree, many , many other Chisholms, this "Haplotype" being that of the Founder of the clan, and it covers Chisholms with both Highland and Border origins.
Hence I would be extremely interested to see the record you have of John Chisholm baptised 1753 in Georgetown.
To me , this John is sounding very much like your kinsman, the brother of Elizabeth Pellot.
How it looks is that Adam has several sons, but the ravages of time prevent us from obtaining primary records. There is evidence of the son David who remained in Virginia, and I think there was a Walter as well. The hypothesis is that John in Beaufort SC (Father of John Jnr and Elizabeth Pellot), and Thomas in Georgia, are indeed brothers, and are sons of Adam Chisholme of Hanover Co VA. I have seen , some time ago now, some evidence to show that Thomas's group of aquaintances, and his future wife, were from the Beaufort area in SC.(Note that Rev Thomas son Thomas married Anne McLean in 1764 in Kintail, Scotland, Factual evidence of this event)
So your theory about several Johns in coastal SC.. yes it would fit.. John(I), a son of Adam, chasing the opportunities offered in the Carolina's, and he has a son named John, baptised in Georgetown ).. The John mentioned in Rev Thomas of Kilmorack theory.. is in fact John I.. so these three Johns melt into one John, and his son of the same name. Do you have the baptism record or the reference to it, I vaguely recall having seen something or Elizabeth, but the=at was two years later and a bit further south.
Above all, note that while you will find lots of internet stuff about Rev Thomas Chisholm of Kilmorack and his son Thomas, being Lt Thomas of Georgia of the Revolutionary Army
you will find it mostly to be post 2000 writing, maybe a tiny bit 1999, and then referenced back to meredith Colkert 1984, and then back to that will of Anne Bulloch. And that will can simply be paraphrased as that she leaves so much money to her sister in North Britain(ie Inverness Scotland), and if she is dead then the money goes to her sons Thomas and John. That's all the will says in this matter, and if Thomas and John were actually in Georgia, especially if raised by her, I am sure they would have figured in that will in a less roundabout method. So what happens is that something, right or wrong , gets put out "there" and becomes accepted and repeated, and I note that you have repeated this, albeit in good faith.
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Author: leonardh182
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.chisholm/478.1.1.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1.1.1....
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Thanks for replying. Our discourse has inspired me to dig into my old and disorganized notes. I comment on some of your most recent points.
First, John D of Knoxville's origin remains a mystery. In John D's written declaration to Rufus King in 1797 he stated that he came from Scotland to New York then Charleston in 1777 when these cities were in British control. His father lived in Charleston. "D" soon went to Savannah, St Augustine and then to Pensacola. He was forced to flee into the Creek and Cherokee territories when the Spanish took over. He eventually wound up in Knoxville where first he met Blount. He revealed nothing of his Scotland roots.
Second, None of these references (to Chisholms in Beaufort area) will lead to the John Chisholm who was established in Eastern Tennessee. Granted; the Tedcastle ref noted earlier is the closest; although with a one generation difference but leading from Knoxville to Beaufort.
There are several John Chisholms in the literature/records about coastal South Carolina. One fits my theory well. "A Dictionary of Scottish Emigrants to America" has John Chisholm to Charleston South Carolina before 1769 with daughter, Elizabeth. There are others, including John, and brother Thomas(of Georgia)and son of Reverend Thomas of Kilmorack. They were nephews of Ann Bulloch of Georgia whose will is recorded. There is John, baptized in Prince Fredrick Winyah Parish(Georgetown) in 1753.
What's most interesting to me is the history swirling around these people during 1750 to 1800.
Again,
Thanks
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Author: rpchisholm
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.chisholm/478.1.1.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1.1.1....
Message Board Post:
Yes I can follow.And I can see that there has been some historical confusions about the various John Chisholms.
The one belonging to Narcissa Owen, and Jessie Chisholm is the one involved in the Blount conspiracy. In times before the conspiracy, known sometimes with a "Captain" title, but never a middle D, which appeared during the Blount impeachmeant. This John is firmly associated with Eastern Tenessee, and his earlier origin remains a mystery so fr as I can see.
There is the case of Jon Chisholm doing the survey work in Florida, in 1774, in a locality where Elizabeth Pellot later moved to. John D Chism is of the firm belief that this person is John of Beaufort, brother to Elizabeth, and the SC rep at the Philadephia congess.
This family has land and family around SC , partic in the Beaufort area, and other family members further upstate. You will find lots of historical references to John Chisholm in this locality. None of these references will lead to the John Chisholm who was established in Eastern Tennessee, who later moved West in early 1800's.
So progress on this matter definitely helped by either primay historical documentation, or by very early books such as the one where the name pops up surveying in Florida. Later written books are liable to be repeating errors which morph these historical Johns, and its a 3 way morph sometimes when John Chisum is put into the mix. We have a Y chromosome sample from descendants of two of then,thats SC John and John Chisum of "Franklin" or Watauga, he was very much involved in the statehood of this territory, getting away from NC, and maybe VA. Both of these two separate families get back to Virginia, noe to Hanover Co, the other to Amelia Co. Tennessee Archive has plenty of original material on John D Chisholm. Actually, logic dictates that if John Chisholm who represented SC at the Constitutional Congress, was the same John Chisholm who was involved in the Blount conspiracy, then he, or somebody would have mentione dit, to show of his character as somebody being trustworth!
y. Instead, the opposite sort of aspersions were cast upon the John Chisholm of the Blount conspiracy. It may be possible to find some primary source material on John in SC, and find a primary source document on Knoxville John, with the same date, to show that these two Johns are different people. It will be very feasible to work from a DNA sample, but to date, no volunteer from the John D Chisholm of Knoxville clan. Not quite true, one of the descendants was amenable but he is descended from a female line and therefore the Y chromosome comparison wont be helpful
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Author: leonardh182
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Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.chisholm/478.1.1.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1.1.1/...
Message Board Post:
rpchisholm,
Google book searches show Blount conspiracy John D Chisholm as the grandfather of Narcissa Chisholm Owens. This in "Jesse Chisholm, ambassador of the plains", Stan Hoig, 1991. In "The Beville family of Virginia, etc...." by Agnes Tedcastle, 1917, also find Narcissa Chisholm Owens as the granddaughter of John Chisholm who lived in Beaufort district of South Carolina. With this John being the father of Elizabeth Chisholm Pelot, my ancestor.
Per John D's testimony concerning the Blount affair, he came to Charleston in 1777 where his father had earlier emigrated. He also stated that he was in Amelia Island, East Florida in 1796..Elizabeth Chisholm and James Pelot had moved there in 1795. John D had also gone through there around 1780 on way to St Augustine.
Other sources show John Chisholm esq in 1771 administering a will in old Granville County, in 1788 voting no at the South Carolina constitutional convention. Also found a John born to (J) Chisholm in 1753 and Elizabeth in 1755; possibly in South Carolina. I think John of Granville County died in 1791. John D died in 1818.
If Agnes Tedcastle cited John, grandfather of Narcissa, as Elizabeth's father when he actually was her brother, then my claim is correct. Tedcastle's book made same mistake for my greatgrandmother, Mary Caroline Hall. It showed her brother as her father.
Granted some of my information came from partial and "snippit" views in Google books which yield incomplete and sometimes misleading information. I plan to follow up some of the partial and snippit views with inter-library loans when I have more time. Until then, I like my case for John D's identity. Hope you can follow this; I am having trouble and I wrote it!
Leonard
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Author: Wytdove2
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Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.chisholm/623.3/mb.ashx
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I just got on this morning and finding my family history on my Father's side. I am Ruth Brown and my Father was Billy Joe or J. Brown from Montgomery, Alabama. He passed in 1983 in Sandusky, Ohio. I just found that I was part of the Chisholm family tree and looked up the name online and seen that you were looking for people in this tree. I know that my Dad had a brother William who worked the oil rigs off of New Orleans and that I have many relatives that I don't know In Mobile Alabama. I know that my Grandmother on my Father's side had several children most of which are in Montgomery, Mobile and the Louisiana area. He had a half sister Carolyn or Melissa, Sue or Susan who was a whole sister. I believe that we may be in search of the same people.
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Author: rpchisholm
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Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.chisholm/478.1.1.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1.1/mb...
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Hi Leonard.
Quite a lot more info has come forward since "The Chisz" was written. Part of that info comes from the DA project, and the putting together of other pieces into the jigsaw puzzle of Adam's descendents. It is believed that Adam had two other sons, John in Beaufort Co and Thomas, nearby on the other side of the Savannah River.
I dont think the living John D, author of the Chisz, would be keen on mixing John "D" Chisholm of the Blount conspiracy into this family. I would really be keen on seeing one of the John D Chisholm descendants into the DNA project, but to date no volunteers, that would settle a lot of things. My research and that of the living John D inc SC indicated that Elizabeth Pellots brother was the one who was representing SC at the Constitutional conference. Definitinety no information to suggest this family was tied up with John D of Knoxville. But if you have found solid information on the origin of Knoxville John, then can you please post the info? There have been quite some confusions betweeen John Chisum in Eastern Tenessee, of the Ameia Co VA family, and Knoxville John from the yet to be determined family origin, would not want to see him tied up with the Adam family unless there was good cause.
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Author: leonardh182
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Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.chisholm/478.1.1.1.1.2.2.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
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My Chisholm ancestor is Elizabeth Chisholm Pelot. Through Google book search I found information indicating that John "D" Chisholm of the Blount conspiracy was her brother. The two primary sources were South Carolina historical records, especially Beaufort area, and congressional and other testimony about the Blount affair and other 'filibusters'. Two significant points: 1-"D" testified that he came to South Carolina before the war and visited his father, also John, who had migrated to Charleston area before him. 2-Other testimony placed "D" at Amelia Island Florida in 1795. James Pelot and Elizabeth had moved there to settle on Spanish land grants. Other Chisholms, Harrisons and Vaughns from the Beaufort area settled there also.
Leonard
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