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Stacy,
Would you mind telling me if your Childress line connects to Obediah Childress of Choctaw County, MS? Obediah was my ggg-grandfather and was married to Selah/Celia. He was
born October 15, 1792 and migrated from Alabama to Mississippi in 1831. He died August 5, 1852 His children were:
Elizabeth, William, John, Obediah Jr., Edmond, Minerva, Mary Jane, and Eliza.
I have a book on the families of Choctaw County that lists this family.
Joann
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Confederate Soldiers Buried at Vicksburg
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:14:39 EDT
From: Kc5zji(a)aol.com
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Hi there yes the Cedar Hill Cem is in Vicksburg ,MS and it is a city cem but
has a Confederate section. My Father was Dorrell Childress and my Grandfather
was Doward Douglass "Babe" Childress. All of my family came from Choctaw Co
Ms. Well if we are connected in anyway or I can help you anymore let me know.
Stacy Childress
If any one has any photo's of any Childress that were in the Civil War, I
would really like a scanned copy for our Civil War site.
INDIANA JACK
injack1(a)aol.com
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/injackcw/">CHILDERS/CHILDRESS RESEARCH CENTER</A> (CIVIL WAR SITE) <A HREF="http://angelfire.lycos.com/in4/injack">CHILDERS/CHILDRESS
CEMETERY DIRECTORY</A>
Hi there yes the Cedar Hill Cem is in Vicksburg ,MS and it is a city cem but
has a Confederate section. My Father was Dorrell Childress and my Grandfather
was Doward Douglass "Babe" Childress. All of my family came from Choctaw Co
Ms. Well if we are connected in anyway or I can help you anymore let me know.
Stacy Childress
hey there let me see if i can get some pictures of the childress tombstones
in cedar hill for you i live about thirty minutes away from there .
stacy childress
Actually the Confederates aren't buried at the national cemetery the
Cemetery was reserved for "soldiers who shall die in the service of the
country." That is the Union soldiers. The Confederates are buried in an
another cemetery called Cedar Hill.
INDIANA JACK
injack1(a)aol.com
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/injackcw/">CHILDERS/CHILDRESS RESEARCH CENTER</A> (CIVIL WAR SITE) <A HREF="http://angelfire.lycos.com/in4/injack">CHILDERS/CHILDRESS
CEMETERY DIRECTORY</A>
July 21, 2002 The Clarion Ledger, Jackson, MS
Bobbie Jean B. Childress, Horn Lake, MS
Bobbie Jean Bland Childress, 69, died of heart failure Thursday, July 18,
2002, at Baptist Desota Center. Services were Saturday at Dickins Funeral
Home with burial in Batesville Magnolia Cemetery.
John William Childress who married Pheobe Midkiff moved to Kanawha County WV
(actually lived in Putnam County WV next door to a Turley family).
Pheobe's sister Nancy Midkiff married Royal B. Childers and lived in Cabell
County WV.
Robert Childress, Agness Childress, Peggy Childress all married Turley's in
Pittsylvania County and moved to Kanawha County.
Sally Childress and Jesse Parsons moved to Kanawha County.
Isabelle Childress and Pleasant Phears moved to Missouri.
It is believed that Robert, Isabelle, Agness, Peggy, John W., James, and
Sally were children of Richard Childress and Mary McMurdy based on a
indenture dated 20 Oct 1801 in Pittsylvania County were Richard Childress
and his wife Mary sell 221 acres to John Smith. The children and spouses
are listed.
Anyone know of a connection between Royal B. Childers and the Childress
family of Pittsylvania County other then they both married into the Midkiff
family?
Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: roberta childers <robertachi(a)msn.com>
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Re: Childress documents Attention:
Jkacjc(a)msn.com
>Jerry,
>While I was in the Danville Public Library I was given a listing of
Pittsylvania County marriages. Among them was a Joshua Childres (note one s)
and Tabitha Haymore on Sept. 10, 1827. Maybe this is your Joshua?
>
>And in the No. 6 document you sent to Mark and Gary it looks like the same
document I have about the marriage between Joshua and Frankey Crane.
>
>Some further marriage listings I had were: John William Childress and Phobe
Midkiff (not too sure about this spelling) on March 24, 1818 in Pitts.
Cnty.; Jesse Parsons and Sally Childress on April 4, 1808; Robert Childress
and Polly Turley in 1799; William Childress and Rebecca Ford on Jan. 19,
1789; Pleasant Fears and Isabelle Childress 1800; Thomas Turley and Agnes
Childress Dec. 23, 1799; Zachariah Turley and Margaret "Peggy" Childress
Aug. 18, 1797; James Childress and Marry Petty Nov. 30, 1839; James H.
Childress and Mary Ann Haymore Sept. 1852; William I. Childress and Cornelia
Jane Sledge 1859; William T. Childress and Elizabeth Guinn Oct. 31, 1860;
and Isreal Davis and Susan E. Childress Oct. 31, 1858. Hope this helps some
of you.
>
>Roberta Childers
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Mark and Gary
>Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 12:53 AM
>To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: [Childress Research] Re: Childress documents Attention:
Jkacjc(a)msn.com
>
>Jkacjc(a)msn.com
>
>Jerry,
>Thank you for the e-mail attachments regarding Joshua Childress, Thomas
>Childress, Barbary Childress and Lucy Childress from Kentucky. While this
>is not the Pittsylvania-County-Virginia-Joshua that I had been
>referencing in the postings, your documents are none the less very
>interesting, timely and relevant to research we are doing
>elsewhere. Mark and I have discussed the handwriting and have reached an
>agreement on what we think the handwriting indicates. It is an opinion
that
>you may take or leave, but gives you an idea of what we see.
>
>DOCUMENT NUMBER 1
>Know all men by these presence that we Martin Martin & Benjamin DShain are
>held and firmly bound unto the Commonwealth of Kentucky in the sum of L51
>the payment of which well and truly be made do bind ourselves our heirs
(? )
>jointly firmly and severally by these presence sealed and dated 26th day of
>August 1823.
>The condition of above obligation is such that whereas the said Martin
>Martin (blank space) is about to obtain a license for a license intended
>between himself and Lucy Childrefs (bland space) now should there be no
>lawful cause to obstruct said marriage then the obligation to be void else
>remain in full force
>Martin Martin
>Benjamin DChain
>Tes't Mr. Barrit? DC (Deputy Clerk)
>
>[Opinion: The "Lucy Childrefs" entry is in the handwriting of the Clerk
>
>Reasoning: The name "Martin Martin" in the first line of the text appears
>to be the same handwriting as "Martin Martin" in the blank space towards
the
>middle of the document BUT DIFFERS from the handwriting of Martin Martin
on
>the signature line at the end of the document.
>
>The "r" in Martin is distinctive. The "r" in "Lucy Childrefs", looks very
>similar to the "r" in the first and second entries of "Martin Martin" in
the
>body of the clerks text, meaning that whoever wrote the first 2 entries of
>"Martin Martin" in the text seems to have written the "r" in "Lucy
>Childrefs". Also the capital "C" in "Childress" looks very similar to the
>capital "C" in "Cause" that appears several words later suggesting the
Clerk
>is writing both the text of the document and the "Lucy Childress" entry.
>
>But the "r" in "Martin" in the Signature Line is substantially different
>than the "r' in Martin" in the document text. The "M" of the Martin in
>the Signature Line is pointed while in the body of the text the "M" is
>rounded. So the Signature Line appears to be written by someone other that
>the person who wrote the body of the text.
>
>Conclusion: The Clerk wrote the first "Martin" in the text, wrote the
second
>"Martin" in the text, wrote "Lucy Childrefs", wrote "Cause" but didn't
write
>the "Martin" on the Signature Line.]
>
>_____________________
>DOCUMENT NUMBER 2
>August 24?29 ? 1823
>I do hear by certify that I freely give my consent for Martin Martin to
>obtain a license to marry my Daughter Lucy Childrefs witness my hand and
>seal 25th August date above.
>Joshua Childrefs
>Tes't Greens ?????
>Benjamin DChain
>
>[Opinion: The Signature Line entry of "Joshua Childrefs" is written by a
>Clerk.
>
>Reasoning: The "Martin" handwriting in Document #2 has the same pointed
"M"
>and same "r" as the "Martin" in the Signature line on Document #1. The
>person writing "Martin" on the SIGNATURE LINE IN DOCUMENT #1 is the same
>person who wrote "Martin" in the BODY OF THE TEXT IN DOCUMENT #2.
>
>Also, the handwriting of the entry "Joshua Childrefs" in Document #2 matche
s
>the handwriting of the entry "Lucy Childrefs" in Document #2 indicating one
>person is writing both the text and Signature Line..
>
>Conclusion: The same person wrote the text of Document #2, wrote the
>Signature Line of Document #2, and wrote the Signature Line of "Martin
>Martin" in the previous Document #1. Only a Clerk could do all three.
>Therefore there are 2 clerks for these 2 documents and no signatures by any
>Childresses.]
>
>__________________
>DOCUMENT NUMBER 3
>Know all men by these presence that we J Oaks and Thos Childrefs are held
>and firmly bound unto the Commonwealth of KY in the sum of L50 the payment
>of which well and truly to be made to the s'd (said) Commonwealth we bind
>ourselves our heirs & severally and jointly firmly by these presence sealed
>and dated this 20 July 1836.
>The condition of the above obligation is such that whereas the above bound
>Oaks is about to obtain a licens for a marriage intended between himself
and
>Barbary Childrefs if their be no lawful obstruction to s'd (said) marriage
>this obligation to be void else remain in full force and virtue in law.
>Isaac X Oaks (his mark)
>Thomas Childrefs
>
>[Opinion: This is a true autograph signature of Thomas Childrefs i.e. his
>own
>handwriting.
>
>Reasoning: Comparing the Clerk's writing of "Childrefs" in the body of the
>text to the Signature Line entry of "Thomas Childress", the Clerk's
>handwriting is very distinctive and couldn't be more different from that of
>Thomas Childress. It is also interesting to see Thomas write his final
"s"
>in his name with a downstoke, which could easily be mistranscribed as a "y"
>though it is a "s".
>
>Conclusion: This is a strong document for a Thomas Childress signature ]
>
>____________
>DOCUMENT NUMBER 4
>This will certify that I have consented that Isaac Oakes shall obtain
>licens(sic) to wed my daughter Barbary Childrefs given my hand this 20 July
>1836.
>Joshua Childrefs
>Thomas Childrefs
>Proven by sd witnefs
>
>[Opinion: Both "Joshua Childrefs" and "Thomas Childrfs (sic)" are
original,
>authentic, autograph signatures in the handwriting of those individuals.
>
>Reasoning: Thomas Childresses handwriting on Document #4 matches his
>previous signature on Document #3.
>
>The person who wrote the text of this document also wrote the name "Joshua
>Childress" on the Signature Line. We don't think this is the Clerk because
>it would seem highly unlikely that a Clerk, making a copy, would have the
>witness Thomas Childress in front of him but not the principal Joshua
>Childress. And why would Thomas be there, without Joshua, and witness a
>document
>for which there is nothing to witness i.e. no Joshua present. It seems
>more probable that Joshua Childress wrote the one line sentence and signed
>the document all in his own handwriting.
>
>Conclusion: It is also interesting to see Thomas Childress misspell his
own
>name when he leaves out the "e" in "Childrfs". Actually he makes the "e"
do
>double duty.... first as an "e" then as part of the first long "s". I've
>done that too in my own signature and it suggests one explanation why some
>signatures surface with only one "s"... if the penstroke, confusing the
>brain, is doing double duty as 2 letters.]
>______________________
>DOCUMENT NUMBER 5
>Know all men by these presence that we Joshua Childrefs and Richard Proctor
>are held and firmly bound unto Robert Brooke esq. Governor of the
>Commonwealth of Virginia for the time being and his successors in the sum
of
>hundred and fifty dollars to which payment shall firmly to be made we bind
>our heirs and do severally by these presence, sealed with our seals and
>dated the 2'd December 1795. Whereas there is a marriage ? between the
above
>bound Joshua Childrefs and Frankey Crane, now the consideration of the
above
>obligation is such that if there is no lawful cause to obstruct the said
>marriage in the above obligation to be voided else remain in full force and
>virtue. Joshua Childrefs, Rich'd Proctor, witnefs Will Tunstall
>
>[Opinion: Our best guess is that the Signature Line for Joshua Childrefs is
>in the handwriting of the Clerk.
>
>Reasoning: A close call. Not too sure about this one. The Signature Line
>has only 4 letters of the surname "Chil....." readable. But comparing the
>"Joshua Childrefs" in the text to the "Joshua Chil???" in the Signature
Line
>it looks generally like the same style, which would make it the Clerk's
>handwriting.
>
>Conclusion: Inconclusive]
>___________________
>DOCUMENT NUMBER 6
>Sir,
>Please to let a license to issue for the marrage (sic) of our daughter
>Frankey Crane with Joshua Childers (sic) and obliged yr* (your etc. your
>servant etc)
>To Mr. Wm. Tunstall CPC (clerk PC, county name?)
>John Crain and Franky
>Tes't Richard Proctor
>
>[Opinion: "Joshua Childers" is a misspelling done by an non-Childress.
>
>Reasoning: No Childress is present as a witness or signatory.
>
>Conclusion: Irrelevant courthouse document as to determining the spelling
>of the surname by the family.]
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>==== CHILDRESS Mailing List ====
>View the archives of PREVIOUS POSTINGS to the CHILDRESS list at
http://searches2.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl
>
>
>
Jerry,
While I was in the Danville Public Library I was given a listing of Pittsylvania County marriages. Among them was a Joshua Childres (note one s) and Tabitha Haymore on Sept. 10, 1827. Maybe this is your Joshua?
And in the No. 6 document you sent to Mark and Gary it looks like the same document I have about the marriage between Joshua and Frankey Crane.
Some further marriage listings I had were: John William Childress and Phobe Midkiff (not too sure about this spelling) on March 24, 1818 in Pitts. Cnty.; Jesse Parsons and Sally Childress on April 4, 1808; Robert Childress and Polly Turley in 1799; William Childress and Rebecca Ford on Jan. 19, 1789; Pleasant Fears and Isabelle Childress 1800; Thomas Turley and Agnes Childress Dec. 23, 1799; Zachariah Turley and Margaret "Peggy" Childress Aug. 18, 1797; James Childress and Marry Petty Nov. 30, 1839; James H. Childress and Mary Ann Haymore Sept. 1852; William I. Childress and Cornelia Jane Sledge 1859; William T. Childress and Elizabeth Guinn Oct. 31, 1860; and Isreal Davis and Susan E. Childress Oct. 31, 1858. Hope this helps some of you.
Roberta Childers
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 12:53 AM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [Childress Research] Re: Childress documents Attention: Jkacjc(a)msn.com
Jkacjc(a)msn.com
Jerry,
Thank you for the e-mail attachments regarding Joshua Childress, Thomas
Childress, Barbary Childress and Lucy Childress from Kentucky. While this
is not the Pittsylvania-County-Virginia-Joshua that I had been
referencing in the postings, your documents are none the less very
interesting, timely and relevant to research we are doing
elsewhere. Mark and I have discussed the handwriting and have reached an
agreement on what we think the handwriting indicates. It is an opinion that
you may take or leave, but gives you an idea of what we see.
DOCUMENT NUMBER 1
Know all men by these presence that we Martin Martin & Benjamin DShain are
held and firmly bound unto the Commonwealth of Kentucky in the sum of L51
the payment of which well and truly be made do bind ourselves our heirs (? )
jointly firmly and severally by these presence sealed and dated 26th day of
August 1823.
The condition of above obligation is such that whereas the said Martin
Martin (blank space) is about to obtain a license for a license intended
between himself and Lucy Childrefs (bland space) now should there be no
lawful cause to obstruct said marriage then the obligation to be void else
remain in full force
Martin Martin
Benjamin DChain
Tes't Mr. Barrit? DC (Deputy Clerk)
[Opinion: The "Lucy Childrefs" entry is in the handwriting of the Clerk
Reasoning: The name "Martin Martin" in the first line of the text appears
to be the same handwriting as "Martin Martin" in the blank space towards the
middle of the document BUT DIFFERS from the handwriting of Martin Martin on
the signature line at the end of the document.
The "r" in Martin is distinctive. The "r" in "Lucy Childrefs", looks very
similar to the "r" in the first and second entries of "Martin Martin" in the
body of the clerks text, meaning that whoever wrote the first 2 entries of
"Martin Martin" in the text seems to have written the "r" in "Lucy
Childrefs". Also the capital "C" in "Childress" looks very similar to the
capital "C" in "Cause" that appears several words later suggesting the Clerk
is writing both the text of the document and the "Lucy Childress" entry.
But the "r" in "Martin" in the Signature Line is substantially different
than the "r' in Martin" in the document text. The "M" of the Martin in
the Signature Line is pointed while in the body of the text the "M" is
rounded. So the Signature Line appears to be written by someone other that
the person who wrote the body of the text.
Conclusion: The Clerk wrote the first "Martin" in the text, wrote the second
"Martin" in the text, wrote "Lucy Childrefs", wrote "Cause" but didn't write
the "Martin" on the Signature Line.]
_____________________
DOCUMENT NUMBER 2
August 24?29 ? 1823
I do hear by certify that I freely give my consent for Martin Martin to
obtain a license to marry my Daughter Lucy Childrefs witness my hand and
seal 25th August date above.
Joshua Childrefs
Tes't Greens ?????
Benjamin DChain
[Opinion: The Signature Line entry of "Joshua Childrefs" is written by a
Clerk.
Reasoning: The "Martin" handwriting in Document #2 has the same pointed "M"
and same "r" as the "Martin" in the Signature line on Document #1. The
person writing "Martin" on the SIGNATURE LINE IN DOCUMENT #1 is the same
person who wrote "Martin" in the BODY OF THE TEXT IN DOCUMENT #2.
Also, the handwriting of the entry "Joshua Childrefs" in Document #2 matches
the handwriting of the entry "Lucy Childrefs" in Document #2 indicating one
person is writing both the text and Signature Line..
Conclusion: The same person wrote the text of Document #2, wrote the
Signature Line of Document #2, and wrote the Signature Line of "Martin
Martin" in the previous Document #1. Only a Clerk could do all three.
Therefore there are 2 clerks for these 2 documents and no signatures by any
Childresses.]
__________________
DOCUMENT NUMBER 3
Know all men by these presence that we J Oaks and Thos Childrefs are held
and firmly bound unto the Commonwealth of KY in the sum of L50 the payment
of which well and truly to be made to the s'd (said) Commonwealth we bind
ourselves our heirs & severally and jointly firmly by these presence sealed
and dated this 20 July 1836.
The condition of the above obligation is such that whereas the above bound
Oaks is about to obtain a licens for a marriage intended between himself and
Barbary Childrefs if their be no lawful obstruction to s'd (said) marriage
this obligation to be void else remain in full force and virtue in law.
Isaac X Oaks (his mark)
Thomas Childrefs
[Opinion: This is a true autograph signature of Thomas Childrefs i.e. his
own
handwriting.
Reasoning: Comparing the Clerk's writing of "Childrefs" in the body of the
text to the Signature Line entry of "Thomas Childress", the Clerk's
handwriting is very distinctive and couldn't be more different from that of
Thomas Childress. It is also interesting to see Thomas write his final "s"
in his name with a downstoke, which could easily be mistranscribed as a "y"
though it is a "s".
Conclusion: This is a strong document for a Thomas Childress signature ]
____________
DOCUMENT NUMBER 4
This will certify that I have consented that Isaac Oakes shall obtain
licens(sic) to wed my daughter Barbary Childrefs given my hand this 20 July
1836.
Joshua Childrefs
Thomas Childrefs
Proven by sd witnefs
[Opinion: Both "Joshua Childrefs" and "Thomas Childrfs (sic)" are original,
authentic, autograph signatures in the handwriting of those individuals.
Reasoning: Thomas Childresses handwriting on Document #4 matches his
previous signature on Document #3.
The person who wrote the text of this document also wrote the name "Joshua
Childress" on the Signature Line. We don't think this is the Clerk because
it would seem highly unlikely that a Clerk, making a copy, would have the
witness Thomas Childress in front of him but not the principal Joshua
Childress. And why would Thomas be there, without Joshua, and witness a
document
for which there is nothing to witness i.e. no Joshua present. It seems
more probable that Joshua Childress wrote the one line sentence and signed
the document all in his own handwriting.
Conclusion: It is also interesting to see Thomas Childress misspell his own
name when he leaves out the "e" in "Childrfs". Actually he makes the "e" do
double duty.... first as an "e" then as part of the first long "s". I've
done that too in my own signature and it suggests one explanation why some
signatures surface with only one "s"... if the penstroke, confusing the
brain, is doing double duty as 2 letters.]
______________________
DOCUMENT NUMBER 5
Know all men by these presence that we Joshua Childrefs and Richard Proctor
are held and firmly bound unto Robert Brooke esq. Governor of the
Commonwealth of Virginia for the time being and his successors in the sum of
hundred and fifty dollars to which payment shall firmly to be made we bind
our heirs and do severally by these presence, sealed with our seals and
dated the 2'd December 1795. Whereas there is a marriage ? between the above
bound Joshua Childrefs and Frankey Crane, now the consideration of the above
obligation is such that if there is no lawful cause to obstruct the said
marriage in the above obligation to be voided else remain in full force and
virtue. Joshua Childrefs, Rich'd Proctor, witnefs Will Tunstall
[Opinion: Our best guess is that the Signature Line for Joshua Childrefs is
in the handwriting of the Clerk.
Reasoning: A close call. Not too sure about this one. The Signature Line
has only 4 letters of the surname "Chil....." readable. But comparing the
"Joshua Childrefs" in the text to the "Joshua Chil???" in the Signature Line
it looks generally like the same style, which would make it the Clerk's
handwriting.
Conclusion: Inconclusive]
___________________
DOCUMENT NUMBER 6
Sir,
Please to let a license to issue for the marrage (sic) of our daughter
Frankey Crane with Joshua Childers (sic) and obliged yr* (your etc. your
servant etc)
To Mr. Wm. Tunstall CPC (clerk PC, county name?)
John Crain and Franky
Tes't Richard Proctor
[Opinion: "Joshua Childers" is a misspelling done by an non-Childress.
Reasoning: No Childress is present as a witness or signatory.
Conclusion: Irrelevant courthouse document as to determining the spelling
of the surname by the family.]
==== CHILDRESS Mailing List ====
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Jkacjc(a)msn.com
Jerry,
Thank you for the e-mail attachments regarding Joshua Childress, Thomas
Childress, Barbary Childress and Lucy Childress from Kentucky. While this
is not the Pittsylvania-County-Virginia-Joshua that I had been
referencing in the postings, your documents are none the less very
interesting, timely and relevant to research we are doing
elsewhere. Mark and I have discussed the handwriting and have reached an
agreement on what we think the handwriting indicates. It is an opinion that
you may take or leave, but gives you an idea of what we see.
DOCUMENT NUMBER 1
Know all men by these presence that we Martin Martin & Benjamin DShain are
held and firmly bound unto the Commonwealth of Kentucky in the sum of L51
the payment of which well and truly be made do bind ourselves our heirs (? )
jointly firmly and severally by these presence sealed and dated 26th day of
August 1823.
The condition of above obligation is such that whereas the said Martin
Martin (blank space) is about to obtain a license for a license intended
between himself and Lucy Childrefs (bland space) now should there be no
lawful cause to obstruct said marriage then the obligation to be void else
remain in full force
Martin Martin
Benjamin DChain
Tes't Mr. Barrit? DC (Deputy Clerk)
[Opinion: The "Lucy Childrefs" entry is in the handwriting of the Clerk
Reasoning: The name "Martin Martin" in the first line of the text appears
to be the same handwriting as "Martin Martin" in the blank space towards the
middle of the document BUT DIFFERS from the handwriting of Martin Martin on
the signature line at the end of the document.
The "r" in Martin is distinctive. The "r" in "Lucy Childrefs", looks very
similar to the "r" in the first and second entries of "Martin Martin" in the
body of the clerks text, meaning that whoever wrote the first 2 entries of
"Martin Martin" in the text seems to have written the "r" in "Lucy
Childrefs". Also the capital "C" in "Childress" looks very similar to the
capital "C" in "Cause" that appears several words later suggesting the Clerk
is writing both the text of the document and the "Lucy Childress" entry.
But the "r" in "Martin" in the Signature Line is substantially different
than the "r' in Martin" in the document text. The "M" of the Martin in
the Signature Line is pointed while in the body of the text the "M" is
rounded. So the Signature Line appears to be written by someone other that
the person who wrote the body of the text.
Conclusion: The Clerk wrote the first "Martin" in the text, wrote the second
"Martin" in the text, wrote "Lucy Childrefs", wrote "Cause" but didn't write
the "Martin" on the Signature Line.]
_____________________
DOCUMENT NUMBER 2
August 24?29 ? 1823
I do hear by certify that I freely give my consent for Martin Martin to
obtain a license to marry my Daughter Lucy Childrefs witness my hand and
seal 25th August date above.
Joshua Childrefs
Tes't Greens ?????
Benjamin DChain
[Opinion: The Signature Line entry of "Joshua Childrefs" is written by a
Clerk.
Reasoning: The "Martin" handwriting in Document #2 has the same pointed "M"
and same "r" as the "Martin" in the Signature line on Document #1. The
person writing "Martin" on the SIGNATURE LINE IN DOCUMENT #1 is the same
person who wrote "Martin" in the BODY OF THE TEXT IN DOCUMENT #2.
Also, the handwriting of the entry "Joshua Childrefs" in Document #2 matches
the handwriting of the entry "Lucy Childrefs" in Document #2 indicating one
person is writing both the text and Signature Line..
Conclusion: The same person wrote the text of Document #2, wrote the
Signature Line of Document #2, and wrote the Signature Line of "Martin
Martin" in the previous Document #1. Only a Clerk could do all three.
Therefore there are 2 clerks for these 2 documents and no signatures by any
Childresses.]
__________________
DOCUMENT NUMBER 3
Know all men by these presence that we J Oaks and Thos Childrefs are held
and firmly bound unto the Commonwealth of KY in the sum of L50 the payment
of which well and truly to be made to the s'd (said) Commonwealth we bind
ourselves our heirs & severally and jointly firmly by these presence sealed
and dated this 20 July 1836.
The condition of the above obligation is such that whereas the above bound
Oaks is about to obtain a licens for a marriage intended between himself and
Barbary Childrefs if their be no lawful obstruction to s'd (said) marriage
this obligation to be void else remain in full force and virtue in law.
Isaac X Oaks (his mark)
Thomas Childrefs
[Opinion: This is a true autograph signature of Thomas Childrefs i.e. his
own
handwriting.
Reasoning: Comparing the Clerk's writing of "Childrefs" in the body of the
text to the Signature Line entry of "Thomas Childress", the Clerk's
handwriting is very distinctive and couldn't be more different from that of
Thomas Childress. It is also interesting to see Thomas write his final "s"
in his name with a downstoke, which could easily be mistranscribed as a "y"
though it is a "s".
Conclusion: This is a strong document for a Thomas Childress signature ]
____________
DOCUMENT NUMBER 4
This will certify that I have consented that Isaac Oakes shall obtain
licens(sic) to wed my daughter Barbary Childrefs given my hand this 20 July
1836.
Joshua Childrefs
Thomas Childrefs
Proven by sd witnefs
[Opinion: Both "Joshua Childrefs" and "Thomas Childrfs (sic)" are original,
authentic, autograph signatures in the handwriting of those individuals.
Reasoning: Thomas Childresses handwriting on Document #4 matches his
previous signature on Document #3.
The person who wrote the text of this document also wrote the name "Joshua
Childress" on the Signature Line. We don't think this is the Clerk because
it would seem highly unlikely that a Clerk, making a copy, would have the
witness Thomas Childress in front of him but not the principal Joshua
Childress. And why would Thomas be there, without Joshua, and witness a
document
for which there is nothing to witness i.e. no Joshua present. It seems
more probable that Joshua Childress wrote the one line sentence and signed
the document all in his own handwriting.
Conclusion: It is also interesting to see Thomas Childress misspell his own
name when he leaves out the "e" in "Childrfs". Actually he makes the "e" do
double duty.... first as an "e" then as part of the first long "s". I've
done that too in my own signature and it suggests one explanation why some
signatures surface with only one "s"... if the penstroke, confusing the
brain, is doing double duty as 2 letters.]
______________________
DOCUMENT NUMBER 5
Know all men by these presence that we Joshua Childrefs and Richard Proctor
are held and firmly bound unto Robert Brooke esq. Governor of the
Commonwealth of Virginia for the time being and his successors in the sum of
hundred and fifty dollars to which payment shall firmly to be made we bind
our heirs and do severally by these presence, sealed with our seals and
dated the 2'd December 1795. Whereas there is a marriage ? between the above
bound Joshua Childrefs and Frankey Crane, now the consideration of the above
obligation is such that if there is no lawful cause to obstruct the said
marriage in the above obligation to be voided else remain in full force and
virtue. Joshua Childrefs, Rich'd Proctor, witnefs Will Tunstall
[Opinion: Our best guess is that the Signature Line for Joshua Childrefs is
in the handwriting of the Clerk.
Reasoning: A close call. Not too sure about this one. The Signature Line
has only 4 letters of the surname "Chil....." readable. But comparing the
"Joshua Childrefs" in the text to the "Joshua Chil???" in the Signature Line
it looks generally like the same style, which would make it the Clerk's
handwriting.
Conclusion: Inconclusive]
___________________
DOCUMENT NUMBER 6
Sir,
Please to let a license to issue for the marrage (sic) of our daughter
Frankey Crane with Joshua Childers (sic) and obliged yr* (your etc. your
servant etc)
To Mr. Wm. Tunstall CPC (clerk PC, county name?)
John Crain and Franky
Tes't Richard Proctor
[Opinion: "Joshua Childers" is a misspelling done by an non-Childress.
Reasoning: No Childress is present as a witness or signatory.
Conclusion: Irrelevant courthouse document as to determining the spelling
of the surname by the family.]
Roberta, I will send the copies in the next few days.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: roberta childers
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 6:13 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Hi Jerry,
I'd like some copies of those same documents with Joshua's signature for my files. You can send them to me in care of the Daily Camera, attn. Terry, P.O. Box 591, Boulder CO 80306. That is the address of my friend who can get it to me. Thanks so much.
Roberta Childers
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 2:44 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Hi Jerry
I apologize about the name mix up.
Rootsweb computers don't accept attachments...because of virus concerns.....
but if you care to, you can send me attachments to London2001(a)earthlink.net
or hard copy printouts to my snail mail address at 8403 Seranata Drive
Whittier CA 90606. I'd welcome whatever you anyone else cares to send.
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathryn childress" <kacjc(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
First, I am Jerry. Kathryn is my wife. The email just has her name on it.
I have attached three documents that I believe were signed by Joshua
Childress. They plainly show his name was Childress, but many records show
his name as Childers.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 10:25 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
What document do you have that has a signature of Joshua?
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathryn childress" <kacjc(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
I don't know if Richard Childress is Joshua Childers father or not, but the
Joshua Childers Roberta is talking about is listed on various documents as
both Childress and Childers. One document I have a copy of he signed Joshua
Childress, Another is hard to read and could be Childers. I know he was
James Childress' father. I know you have a thing about Childers and
Childress being separate lines, but they can be the same line. If you saw
my signature, you would likely not read it as Childress. So it is possible
that Joshua's real name was Childress.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 5:49 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Roberta,
You start your lineage with you, your father, your grandfather, and your
"Childers" kin signing their names in their own handwriting as "Childers".
You wind-up tied to a family of Pittsylvania Childresses who are linked to
signatures in their own handwriting as "Childress". That is suggestive that
there is an error somewhere in your linkages. It is a red flag. I warning.
There is a potential for error looming about.
Which is why I am saying examine your linkages at your last known "Childers"
signature to the next, previous generation because somewhere you've
transitioned signatures made by the family members. The documents and
records at this transitional juncture need to be as exhaustive and complete
as is possible because the potential for error is so great. The greatest
probability is that you have misconnected generations, because in the past
you've stated that your documentation is weakest at those transitional
spelling generations.
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "roberta childers" <robertachi(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Dear Mark and Gary,
I talked by email to my 3rd cousin in Texas and we agreed that we both need
to do further research to find out for sure about Joshua Childress and
Richard Childress. I did get the marriage agreement between Richard
Childress and Mary McMurdy as contained in the last will and testament of
James McMurdy. William J. McCallum was my source for the children of Joshua
and Frances Childress.
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 12:38 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Dear Roberta,
I still remain where I was on day one..... very skeptical or withholding
judgment that records can show the linkage as you have outlined. I haven't
seen any proof linking your "Childers" kin of the late 1800's to your
researched "Childresses" and the potential for error is just too great for
me accept linkages without some documentary evidence. If you ever develop
those records showing the linkages, I would very much welcome seeing what it
shows. If your research is to withstand the test of time, others will also
want to see how you document that crossover as well. Its not just me.
Regards
Gary
Dear Mark and Gary,
I am back from Pittsylvania County and was successful in my research. Joshua
Childress is the son of Richard Childress and Mary McMurdy. I have put this
info into my family tree on ancestry.com along with the children of Joshua
and Richard. If you need any more from me just holler.
Roberta Childers/Childress
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Dear Tazz,
1) Throw out all tombstones and death certificates which are always
presumptively inaccurate.
2) You have receipts which you say show the same? handwriting (no hired help
here) changing its spelling....
3) It appears that your father was outvoted by his siblings 6 to 1 that the
name is CHILDERS.... looks like you described a name change to me....and
your family keeps the CHILDRESS spelling......
4) I'd guess your DNA is Childers. I vote with the 6 siblings that say
CHILDERS.
Did you talk to your grandparents about this... What did they say?
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tazz Childress" <johnnycocopop(a)yahoo.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 7:34 AM
Subject: {not a subscriber} Signatures
Might I butt in here about signatures.... what you are
saying holds alot of truth - especially for the time
period. However... I have original documents that were
signed by my grandparents Jesse and Lillie Moore
Childress/Childres/Childers.These documents include
store receipts, personal memo book, lodge due receipts
and a petition from Echols, Ky. My grandfather signed
these documents with all three spellings of
Childress/Childres/Childers.My grandmother was also
inconsistent with the spelling of our last name.This
would have been in the late 1800's and neither of my
grandparents were illiterate. When my father and his
siblings had to get birth certificates, social
security numbers, and draft records prepared they
debated on which spelling to use. My father's 6
siblings took Childers and my father took Childress.
Therefore... I have had to search for information
using all three spellings. In fact, on my
grandfather's tombstone it is spelled Childres. My
grandmother's death certificate reads Lillie Childers.
Go figure....
By the way... has anyone heard of a Samuel
Childers/Childress/Childres in Kentucky in the early 1800's??
Hi Jerry,
I'd like some copies of those same documents with Joshua's signature for my files. You can send them to me in care of the Daily Camera, attn. Terry, P.O. Box 591, Boulder CO 80306. That is the address of my friend who can get it to me. Thanks so much.
Roberta Childers
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 2:44 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Hi Jerry
I apologize about the name mix up.
Rootsweb computers don't accept attachments...because of virus concerns.....
but if you care to, you can send me attachments to London2001(a)earthlink.net
or hard copy printouts to my snail mail address at 8403 Seranata Drive
Whittier CA 90606. I'd welcome whatever you anyone else cares to send.
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathryn childress" <kacjc(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
First, I am Jerry. Kathryn is my wife. The email just has her name on it.
I have attached three documents that I believe were signed by Joshua
Childress. They plainly show his name was Childress, but many records show
his name as Childers.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 10:25 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
What document do you have that has a signature of Joshua?
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathryn childress" <kacjc(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
I don't know if Richard Childress is Joshua Childers father or not, but the
Joshua Childers Roberta is talking about is listed on various documents as
both Childress and Childers. One document I have a copy of he signed Joshua
Childress, Another is hard to read and could be Childers. I know he was
James Childress' father. I know you have a thing about Childers and
Childress being separate lines, but they can be the same line. If you saw
my signature, you would likely not read it as Childress. So it is possible
that Joshua's real name was Childress.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 5:49 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Roberta,
You start your lineage with you, your father, your grandfather, and your
"Childers" kin signing their names in their own handwriting as "Childers".
You wind-up tied to a family of Pittsylvania Childresses who are linked to
signatures in their own handwriting as "Childress". That is suggestive that
there is an error somewhere in your linkages. It is a red flag. I warning.
There is a potential for error looming about.
Which is why I am saying examine your linkages at your last known "Childers"
signature to the next, previous generation because somewhere you've
transitioned signatures made by the family members. The documents and
records at this transitional juncture need to be as exhaustive and complete
as is possible because the potential for error is so great. The greatest
probability is that you have misconnected generations, because in the past
you've stated that your documentation is weakest at those transitional
spelling generations.
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "roberta childers" <robertachi(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Dear Mark and Gary,
I talked by email to my 3rd cousin in Texas and we agreed that we both need
to do further research to find out for sure about Joshua Childress and
Richard Childress. I did get the marriage agreement between Richard
Childress and Mary McMurdy as contained in the last will and testament of
James McMurdy. William J. McCallum was my source for the children of Joshua
and Frances Childress.
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 12:38 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Dear Roberta,
I still remain where I was on day one..... very skeptical or withholding
judgment that records can show the linkage as you have outlined. I haven't
seen any proof linking your "Childers" kin of the late 1800's to your
researched "Childresses" and the potential for error is just too great for
me accept linkages without some documentary evidence. If you ever develop
those records showing the linkages, I would very much welcome seeing what it
shows. If your research is to withstand the test of time, others will also
want to see how you document that crossover as well. Its not just me.
Regards
Gary
Dear Mark and Gary,
I am back from Pittsylvania County and was successful in my research. Joshua
Childress is the son of Richard Childress and Mary McMurdy. I have put this
info into my family tree on ancestry.com along with the children of Joshua
and Richard. If you need any more from me just holler.
Roberta Childers/Childress
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First, I am Jerry. Kathryn is my wife. The email just has her name on it. I have attached three documents that I believe were signed by Joshua Childress. They plainly show his name was Childress, but many records show his name as Childers.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 10:25 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
What document do you have that has a signature of Joshua?
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathryn childress" <kacjc(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
I don't know if Richard Childress is Joshua Childers father or not, but the
Joshua Childers Roberta is talking about is listed on various documents as
both Childress and Childers. One document I have a copy of he signed Joshua
Childress, Another is hard to read and could be Childers. I know he was
James Childress' father. I know you have a thing about Childers and
Childress being separate lines, but they can be the same line. If you saw
my signature, you would likely not read it as Childress. So it is possible
that Joshua's real name was Childress.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 5:49 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Roberta,
You start your lineage with you, your father, your grandfather, and your
"Childers" kin signing their names in their own handwriting as "Childers".
You wind-up tied to a family of Pittsylvania Childresses who are linked to
signatures in their own handwriting as "Childress". That is suggestive that
there is an error somewhere in your linkages. It is a red flag. I warning.
There is a potential for error looming about.
Which is why I am saying examine your linkages at your last known "Childers"
signature to the next, previous generation because somewhere you've
transitioned signatures made by the family members. The documents and
records at this transitional juncture need to be as exhaustive and complete
as is possible because the potential for error is so great. The greatest
probability is that you have misconnected generations, because in the past
you've stated that your documentation is weakest at those transitional
spelling generations.
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "roberta childers" <robertachi(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Dear Mark and Gary,
I talked by email to my 3rd cousin in Texas and we agreed that we both need
to do further research to find out for sure about Joshua Childress and
Richard Childress. I did get the marriage agreement between Richard
Childress and Mary McMurdy as contained in the last will and testament of
James McMurdy. William J. McCallum was my source for the children of Joshua
and Frances Childress.
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 12:38 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Dear Roberta,
I still remain where I was on day one..... very skeptical or withholding
judgment that records can show the linkage as you have outlined. I haven't
seen any proof linking your "Childers" kin of the late 1800's to your
researched "Childresses" and the potential for error is just too great for
me accept linkages without some documentary evidence. If you ever develop
those records showing the linkages, I would very much welcome seeing what it
shows. If your research is to withstand the test of time, others will also
want to see how you document that crossover as well. Its not just me.
Regards
Gary
Dear Mark and Gary,
I am back from Pittsylvania County and was successful in my research. Joshua
Childress is the son of Richard Childress and Mary McMurdy. I have put this
info into my family tree on ancestry.com along with the children of Joshua
and Richard. If you need any more from me just holler.
Roberta Childers/Childress
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Genuine "autograph signatures"may be found on legal declarations,
recognizance bonds, original receipts, petitions, pension declarations,
marriage bonds (not marriage licenses), and sometimes within family Bibles
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "roberta childers" <robertachi(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research, Dear
Roberta,
Mark and Gary, How do I find these documents signed by my supposed
ancestors? Most of the records in the clerk's office didn't go back any
farther than 1795.
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 11:08 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research, Dear Roberta,
Dear Roberta,
The document you reference does not contain signatures. Signatures by
definition must be in the handwritng of the individual who bears that
name....The documents that you reference and most Deeds and Wills found in
Courthouse records (that I think Kathryn Childress is referencing) are
CLERK generated text... and are NOT SIGNED by the parties mentioned on the
signature lines.
When I say "find signatures".... I mean find that specific person's own
handwriting, in this case, Joshua Childress's or Richard Childress's, or his
nearest kin or descendants, and see how THAT person who carries the name
spells ....IN HIS OWN HANDWRITING.....his own name.
The document you reference is a transcription...and might have well as been
done on a typewriter and has all the mistakes of a transcription.......
which is why you and Kathryn Childress see THE CLERK sometimes spelling a
name Childers and sometimes as Childress. To know which is correct you need
to find the HANDWRITING OF THE ANCESTOR (or kin)... then these documents
start to sort themselves out and make sense. (The "original" of these
documents, with true autograph signatures, was handed to the parties
concerned and they took them home with them and lost and destroyed them.)
You may, if you wish, reason it this way. The handwriting the of clerk (as
found in the body of the document's text) should be compared to the
transcribed names on the signature line. In nearly all cases, you should
see that the HANDWRITING of the CLERK in the body of the document matches
the handwriting of those names listed at the end of the document....which
you incorrectly are calling "signatures". The Clerks handwriting matches the
handwriting in the signature line because the clerk wrote the names on the
signature line transcription that you are looking at. (very infrequently, if
the handwriting doesn't match then the potential exists for a true autograph
sigature).
Reason it this way. If a person, in THEIR OWN HANDWRITING does indeed sign
a document as "Childers" and then again in THEIR OWN HANDWRITING signs
another document as "Childress" (as you claim) wouldn't the handwriting
match.....Wouldn't both signatures, if they were by the same person, show a
same pen stroke for the letters "C" and "h" and "i" and "l" and "d" and "r"
and "e". If you compare your documents you will notice that handwriting of
the person who YOU claimed "signed" as "Childers" is not the same
handwriting who "signed" "Childress".... This is because they are indeed
different people, ie. THE CLERKS who wrote one document were a different set
of CLERKS who wrote the other document.
The point I was making with your research, Roberta, is that you leave me
behind circa the late 1800's when you, in my opinion, don't connect your
Great Grandfather and his father and his father correctly together. You jump
from Childers-Signature lineages to Childress-Signature lineages (Signatures
verified in THEIR OWN HANDWRITING) without adequate documentation... and
incorrectly would be my guess. In any case, you need documentation there in
the 1800's ....not in Pittsylvania in the 1700's.
The Childress's of Pittsylvania are not not yet clear as to their progenitor
or multiple progenitors but some of the descendants of these Pittsylvania
Childresses move to Kanawha, West Virginia circa 1800 and whose descendants
still live in Kanawha to this very day and who for the past century have
been creating records in Kanawha where documents in their own handwriting
show they spell their names CHILDRESS.
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "roberta childers" <robertachi(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Dear Mark and Gary,
I have tried to make out exactly what the document says, here is what I was
able to decipher:
Upon all men by these present that Joshua Childress we Richard Proctor are
held and ..... bound unto Robert Brooke.......Gorman of the commonwealth of
Virginia for the time among his ....... in the ....... hands .... and he ..
..... to which payment will and truly be made. We find ... ..... and ......
living by this presents sealed with our seals and the dates 2nd day December
1793. Whereas there is a marriage depersing (?) and ..uddenly .... .... the
above bound Joshua Childress and Frankey Crane. Now the condition of the
above obligation is such that is there is no lawful cause to ...... the said
marriage then the above obligation to be voided else remain in the ...four
and Nisbie (?).
Joshua Childress
Rich Proctor
Witness Will Turnstall.
Then on another sheet I got from the Chatham County recorder:
Sir, Please to let a license issue for the marriage of our daughter Frankey
Crane with Joshua Childers (note) and oblige you we ......
John Crain (Crane, they spelled it both ways)
J. Franky
To William Turnstall
Test. Richard Proctor
I would say that Joshua definitely signed his name Childress. I can mail you
a copy of this document if you will send me an address.
Roberta Childers
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 9:25 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
What document do you have that has a signature of Joshua?
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathryn childress" <kacjc(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
I don't know if Richard Childress is Joshua Childers father or not, but the
Joshua Childers Roberta is talking about is listed on various documents as
both Childress and Childers. One document I have a copy of he signed Joshua
Childress, Another is hard to read and could be Childers. I know he was
James Childress' father. I know you have a thing about Childers and
Childress being separate lines, but they can be the same line. If you saw
my signature, you would likely not read it as Childress. So it is possible
that Joshua's real name was Childress.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 5:49 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Roberta,
You start your lineage with you, your father, your grandfather, and your
"Childers" kin signing their names in their own handwriting as "Childers".
You wind-up tied to a family of Pittsylvania Childresses who are linked to
signatures in their own handwriting as "Childress". That is suggestive that
there is an error somewhere in your linkages. It is a red flag. I warning.
There is a potential for error looming about.
Which is why I am saying examine your linkages at your last known "Childers"
signature to the next, previous generation because somewhere you've
transitioned signatures made by the family members. The documents and
records at this transitional juncture need to be as exhaustive and complete
as is possible because the potential for error is so great. The greatest
probability is that you have misconnected generations, because in the past
you've stated that your documentation is weakest at those transitional
spelling generations.
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "roberta childers" <robertachi(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Dear Mark and Gary,
I talked by email to my 3rd cousin in Texas and we agreed that we both need
to do further research to find out for sure about Joshua Childress and
Richard Childress. I did get the marriage agreement between Richard
Childress and Mary McMurdy as contained in the last will and testament of
James McMurdy. William J. McCallum was my source for the children of Joshua
and Frances Childress.
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 12:38 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Dear Roberta,
I still remain where I was on day one..... very skeptical or withholding
judgment that records can show the linkage as you have outlined. I haven't
seen any proof linking your "Childers" kin of the late 1800's to your
researched "Childresses" and the potential for error is just too great for
me accept linkages without some documentary evidence. If you ever develop
those records showing the linkages, I would very much welcome seeing what it
shows. If your research is to withstand the test of time, others will also
want to see how you document that crossover as well. Its not just me.
Regards
Gary
Dear Mark and Gary,
I am back from Pittsylvania County and was successful in my research. Joshua
Childress is the son of Richard Childress and Mary McMurdy. I have put this
info into my family tree on ancestry.com along with the children of Joshua
and Richard. If you need any more from me just holler.
Roberta Childers/Childress
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Roberta,
The Witnesses are not signing these documents either. The Witness line is no
different than the Signature line....a transcription by the Clerk.... all
the same handwriting, the Clerk's. When it isn't.... take notice.
The fancy "s" is called a "long s". It has the pen stroke of a modern
figure 8. It stopped being taught in schools circa the early 1800's and
appears in some family bibles, used by the elderly I surmise, as late the
1870's.
----- Original Message -----
From: "roberta childers" <robertachi(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Signatures
In the text of this deed the signatures look just like the handwriting of
the clerks, but they are witnessed!! The Childress name looks like this
Childrefs. Meaning the first is a fancy "s". Right?
Roberta Childers
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 2:07 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [Childress Research] Signatures
Joke........
How do you tell an illiterate CHILDERS from an illiterate CHILDRESS.
An illiterate CHILDRESS signs with 2 X's ("XX").
Gary
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Mark and Gary, How do I find these documents signed by my supposed ancestors? Most of the records in the clerk's office didn't go back any farther than 1795.
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 11:08 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research, Dear Roberta,
Dear Roberta,
The document you reference does not contain signatures. Signatures by
definition must be in the handwritng of the individual who bears that
name....The documents that you reference and most Deeds and Wills found in
Courthouse records (that I think Kathryn Childress is referencing) are
CLERK generated text... and are NOT SIGNED by the parties mentioned on the
signature lines.
When I say "find signatures".... I mean find that specific person's own
handwriting, in this case, Joshua Childress's or Richard Childress's, or his
nearest kin or descendants, and see how THAT person who carries the name
spells ....IN HIS OWN HANDWRITING.....his own name.
The document you reference is a transcription...and might have well as been
done on a typewriter and has all the mistakes of a transcription.......
which is why you and Kathryn Childress see THE CLERK sometimes spelling a
name Childers and sometimes as Childress. To know which is correct you need
to find the HANDWRITING OF THE ANCESTOR (or kin)... then these documents
start to sort themselves out and make sense. (The "original" of these
documents, with true autograph signatures, was handed to the parties
concerned and they took them home with them and lost and destroyed them.)
You may, if you wish, reason it this way. The handwriting the of clerk (as
found in the body of the document's text) should be compared to the
transcribed names on the signature line. In nearly all cases, you should
see that the HANDWRITING of the CLERK in the body of the document matches
the handwriting of those names listed at the end of the document....which
you incorrectly are calling "signatures". The Clerks handwriting matches the
handwriting in the signature line because the clerk wrote the names on the
signature line transcription that you are looking at. (very infrequently, if
the handwriting doesn't match then the potential exists for a true autograph
sigature).
Reason it this way. If a person, in THEIR OWN HANDWRITING does indeed sign
a document as "Childers" and then again in THEIR OWN HANDWRITING signs
another document as "Childress" (as you claim) wouldn't the handwriting
match.....Wouldn't both signatures, if they were by the same person, show a
same pen stroke for the letters "C" and "h" and "i" and "l" and "d" and "r"
and "e". If you compare your documents you will notice that handwriting of
the person who YOU claimed "signed" as "Childers" is not the same
handwriting who "signed" "Childress".... This is because they are indeed
different people, ie. THE CLERKS who wrote one document were a different set
of CLERKS who wrote the other document.
The point I was making with your research, Roberta, is that you leave me
behind circa the late 1800's when you, in my opinion, don't connect your
Great Grandfather and his father and his father correctly together. You jump
from Childers-Signature lineages to Childress-Signature lineages (Signatures
verified in THEIR OWN HANDWRITING) without adequate documentation... and
incorrectly would be my guess. In any case, you need documentation there in
the 1800's ....not in Pittsylvania in the 1700's.
The Childress's of Pittsylvania are not not yet clear as to their progenitor
or multiple progenitors but some of the descendants of these Pittsylvania
Childresses move to Kanawha, West Virginia circa 1800 and whose descendants
still live in Kanawha to this very day and who for the past century have
been creating records in Kanawha where documents in their own handwriting
show they spell their names CHILDRESS.
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "roberta childers" <robertachi(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Dear Mark and Gary,
I have tried to make out exactly what the document says, here is what I was
able to decipher:
Upon all men by these present that Joshua Childress we Richard Proctor are
held and ..... bound unto Robert Brooke.......Gorman of the commonwealth of
Virginia for the time among his ....... in the ....... hands .... and he ..
..... to which payment will and truly be made. We find ... ..... and ......
living by this presents sealed with our seals and the dates 2nd day December
1793. Whereas there is a marriage depersing (?) and ..uddenly .... .... the
above bound Joshua Childress and Frankey Crane. Now the condition of the
above obligation is such that is there is no lawful cause to ...... the said
marriage then the above obligation to be voided else remain in the ...four
and Nisbie (?).
Joshua Childress
Rich Proctor
Witness Will Turnstall.
Then on another sheet I got from the Chatham County recorder:
Sir, Please to let a license issue for the marriage of our daughter Frankey
Crane with Joshua Childers (note) and oblige you we ......
John Crain (Crane, they spelled it both ways)
J. Franky
To William Turnstall
Test. Richard Proctor
I would say that Joshua definitely signed his name Childress. I can mail you
a copy of this document if you will send me an address.
Roberta Childers
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 9:25 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
What document do you have that has a signature of Joshua?
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathryn childress" <kacjc(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
I don't know if Richard Childress is Joshua Childers father or not, but the
Joshua Childers Roberta is talking about is listed on various documents as
both Childress and Childers. One document I have a copy of he signed Joshua
Childress, Another is hard to read and could be Childers. I know he was
James Childress' father. I know you have a thing about Childers and
Childress being separate lines, but they can be the same line. If you saw
my signature, you would likely not read it as Childress. So it is possible
that Joshua's real name was Childress.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 5:49 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Roberta,
You start your lineage with you, your father, your grandfather, and your
"Childers" kin signing their names in their own handwriting as "Childers".
You wind-up tied to a family of Pittsylvania Childresses who are linked to
signatures in their own handwriting as "Childress". That is suggestive that
there is an error somewhere in your linkages. It is a red flag. I warning.
There is a potential for error looming about.
Which is why I am saying examine your linkages at your last known "Childers"
signature to the next, previous generation because somewhere you've
transitioned signatures made by the family members. The documents and
records at this transitional juncture need to be as exhaustive and complete
as is possible because the potential for error is so great. The greatest
probability is that you have misconnected generations, because in the past
you've stated that your documentation is weakest at those transitional
spelling generations.
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "roberta childers" <robertachi(a)msn.com>
To: <CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Dear Mark and Gary,
I talked by email to my 3rd cousin in Texas and we agreed that we both need
to do further research to find out for sure about Joshua Childress and
Richard Childress. I did get the marriage agreement between Richard
Childress and Mary McMurdy as contained in the last will and testament of
James McMurdy. William J. McCallum was my source for the children of Joshua
and Frances Childress.
Roberta
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 12:38 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [Childress Research] Pittsylvania County research
Dear Roberta,
I still remain where I was on day one..... very skeptical or withholding
judgment that records can show the linkage as you have outlined. I haven't
seen any proof linking your "Childers" kin of the late 1800's to your
researched "Childresses" and the potential for error is just too great for
me accept linkages without some documentary evidence. If you ever develop
those records showing the linkages, I would very much welcome seeing what it
shows. If your research is to withstand the test of time, others will also
want to see how you document that crossover as well. Its not just me.
Regards
Gary
Dear Mark and Gary,
I am back from Pittsylvania County and was successful in my research. Joshua
Childress is the son of Richard Childress and Mary McMurdy. I have put this
info into my family tree on ancestry.com along with the children of Joshua
and Richard. If you need any more from me just holler.
Roberta Childers/Childress
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In the text of this deed the signatures look just like the handwriting of the clerks, but they are witnessed!! The Childress name looks like this Childrefs. Meaning the first is a fancy "s". Right?
Roberta Childers
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark and Gary
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 2:07 PM
To: CHILDRESS-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [Childress Research] Signatures
Joke........
How do you tell an illiterate CHILDERS from an illiterate CHILDRESS.
An illiterate CHILDRESS signs with 2 X's ("XX").
Gary
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In a message dated 07/05/2002 8:25:47 AM Central Daylight Time,
hurdv(a)hms.crooknet.k12.wy.us writes:
> What if they signed with an "X"?
>
>
This could mean that they may have tremors of old age, not that they never
could read and write.