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BY THE WAY, THIS IS NOT DEMNSTAT OR RINGWALD (SPELLING?)
http://genforum.genealogy.com/smith/
Humphrey Smith did not leave a will that I can locate, but established
his children's names by giving them all his land at various times. In
1713 he deeded "for love and affection" 50 acres to his son John and 50
acres to his son Philemon Smith. The property was on the north side of
the James River on the Queens Cabbin Creek branch of the Chickahominy
River. This was the 100 acres he had gotten from John Pleasants. Thomas
and Mary Childers were witnesses to the deeds. He deeded the 40 acres to
his son Humphrey, Jr. "for love and affection" in 1732. It was located
on the Western Run, next to William Porter, McKinney's line and Francis
Gathrite. He was 77 at the time.
I have no idea when John Smith, son of Humphrey and Mary above, was
born. We know his birth date had to be before 1713, but we don't know
how old he was when he received his land. He may have been 21 or older,
but there is no real way to tell. By 1731, he lived in Goochland County,
which was formed from the western part of Henrico County in 1728. He
sold the 50 acres his daddy had given to him in Henrico County in 1731.
He signed that deed with his mark: (This mark helped me trace him but
unfortunately I can’t reproduce it for genforum.) He died in 1757 in
Cumberland County, Virginia, [which was created from Goochland County in
1748-9,] and left a will. You can go see this will in the Cumberland
County Courthouse in Will Book 1, page 125. (All these little Virginia
county courthouses in this area are beautiful, and look very much
alike.) John Smith's wife was Jane Childers, a first cousin, according
to information from the Virginia Genealogist, Vol. 35, page 48. His sons
were Abraham (a Childers name); Humfre (a Smith name); Childres (too
obvious to say anything); "Elachsander" (Alexander... do you suppose he
was named for Alexander Mekenny?...); Joseph; John, (Jr.); James; and a
daughter Mary Blankenship. He gave John (Jr.) and James the 100 acres he
had purchased from Matthew and Ann Age(e) of Goochland in 1728, to
divide equally between them. The land was on the south side of the James
River and on the east side of Mathews Branch. John Smith, (Jr.) was to
get the upper portion and James was to get the lower portion where John
(Sr.) lived. This will was proven to be the true will of John Smith in
February Court, 1757.
______________________________________________________________________
John and James Smith sold the land to Samuel Fluornoy in 1766, and both
of the wives of John and James who relinquished dower rights were named
“Mary.”
==========================
About 8 years ago, I rec'd copies of several pages of the Journal of
Andrew Jackson Davison, whose wf was Martha Jane Young, dau of Thos K
Young & Rosanna Wood of Jackson Co, AL & maury Co, TN. AJ Davison wrote
that his wf, Martha Jane Young Davison, had told him that her father,
Thos K Young, was a son of John Young & MISS ADKINS. I began searching
for desc's of John Young & Miss Adkins, and found several of their
desc's had md ch or step-ch of a John Adkins of Jackson Co, AL & Maury
Co, TN. That led me to search for the connection or relationship between
Miss Adkins & this John Adkins, and I'm still searching for that
relationship.
Within the last year, I have ordered & rec'd the Civil War Union pension
file of Andrew J/Jackosn J Adkins of JKAL, the Civil War Confederate
widows pesion file of Jane Childry & the death cert of Jane Childrey. I
have posted some of info from AJ/Jackson J Adkins pension file in
Alabama: Jackson County Gen Forum, and will only post here that he was
md 4th to Aley Sanders in JKAL in May of 1886. Sanders may have been her
maiden name, if she was md previously, and I have not rec'd any
responses to request for marr lookups for that marriage. Also, AJ/JJ
died in Maynards Cove, Jackson Co, AL.
In late July of this year of 2002, I ordered the widows pension file for
Jane Childry from TX State Library & death cert for Jane Childrey from
TX dept of Health. Rec'd pension file in early Aug, but was waiting for
death cert to post additional new info, and just rec'd it about a week
ago. Together with the censuses of Navarro & Hill Co's, TX, there is new
evidence that AJ/JJ was prob from 1st wf of John Adkins, and Amanda
Jane, Nancy Adaline & Malinda were daus of 2nd wf of John Adkins.
The pension file consisted of a two page application, one page
certification by County Judge & County Commissioners, one page avidavit
of E(dmond) T(hos) Murphy who served in same Co as James Childry & one
page avidavit of L(ucious) S Freeland who was prob too young to serve in
Civil War. The most interesting & useful info from the application was:
(1) resides near Hubbard city, Hill Co, TX, and has since 1874, (2)
physical cond-feeble & not able to engage in any occupation at age 65,
(3) md James Childry 1851 Maury Co, TN (actually 12/29/1853), (4) James
Childry enlisted in Co C of 48th TN Regement & served form the beginning
until the fall of 1863 when he died in a hospital in KY, (5) Q. "Are you
unmarried, and have you so remained unmarried since the death of your
said husband for whose services you claim a pension?" Answer. "Yes" and
(6) applicant indigent with no property or income.
I have no idea what happened to Wade Hampton Smith who md Amanda Jane on
12/12/1867 in MUTN, and was listed as the head of household in 1870 FC
of MUTN as follows: p684 66/66, Dist 25; SMITH, (Wade) Hampton 37 (28)
TN Farmer _/95, (Amanda) Jane (Adkins-Childsey) 42 TN (37 MO), THURMAN,
James 17 TN, Nancy (Childers) 16 TN (md 12/24/1869 MSTN), CHILDRESS,
(Wm) David 14 TN, Alice 12 TN & (Malissa) Elizabeth 11.
Just as Wm James Childrey/Childress, Amanda Jane's 1st husb, was prob a
relative of her step-mother, Nancy Jane Childress Haley Allred Adkins,
Wade Hampton Smith, Amanda Jane's 2nd husb, was prob a relative, at
least an in-law, of her step-mother Elizabeth Tanner Adkins. Wade
Hampton Smith & his bro, Joseph Claiborne/Claiburn Smith, also served in
same Co C 48th TN Rgmt. as Wm James Childria/Childress. Clem Smith, prob
uncle of Wade Hampton Smith, md Nancy Tanner in 1839 MUTN. Wade Hampton
Smith was son of Philip Smith & Lettatitia Davis who were md in MUTN on
7/18/1838.
1850 FC of MUTN: p641 1099 Dist 4 (Culleoka); SMITH, Phillip 51 NC,
Letitia (Davis) 31 NC, Nancy 11 TN, Sarah 9 TN, Hamden 7 TN, John 5 TN &
Joseph 1 TN. p641 1100: DAVIS, Edmond 75 (70-75) NC, Pheobe (???) 65 NC,
Nancy 85 NC & Naomi 20 TN. 1860 FC of MUTN: p89 316 Dist 4; SMITH, Tisha
42 NC, Nancy J 21 AL, Sarah A 19 TN, Wade H 18 TN, John H 13 TN, Joseph
C 12 TN & Mary F 10 TN; DAVIS, Edmond 100 (80-85) NC.
The death cert gave DOB as Aug 12th 1839 (should be 1833) & POB as TN
(should be MO). Date of death was Sept 18th 1914 in Hubbard City, Hill
Co, TX. Four soild black lines were drawn thru name of father,
birthplace of father, name of mother & birthplace of mother. The most
useful info would have been the maiden name of her mother, the 1st/2nd
wf of John Adkins, but the info from the censuses of Navarro & Hill
Co.s, TX may provide some useful clues. Will post some of the info found
in these for Jane Childrey and her daus, Nannie Childers Thurman &
Melissa Childress Davis, in a later post.
I will also try to get time to post info on other Confederate Veterans
from MUTN who also moved to Navarro (near Dawson) & Hill (near Hubbard)
Co.s, TX. Hubbard area of Hill Co was originally part of Navarro Co, TX.
These CSA veterans & their families include members of the
Murphie/Murphy, Freeland, Cheatham & Warden.
===================
There is a page Wilson Station Church Monroe Co Tn webpage by a lady
last name Nipper she is related to this Smith she has a lot of
connections on her page. I also am looking for a John Smith m. Panthore
Childress/Childers their child Martha/Mattie Smith m. John Bayless
Thompson Jr His father was John Bayless Thompson Sr m. Martha Angeline
Childress/Childers. in other words John Jr married his cousin because
Martha's Father was Archibald Childress brother to my Panthora Childress.
====================================================================================
The 1st John Smith m. to Panthore Childress/Childers on the 1880 Polk Co
Census is my grgrgrgrandfather and the second John Smith m. Mary
Angeline McClanahan 2nd wife Mae Harrison showing gdau Angeline and
Mollie is my grgrgrandfather. They would be his daughters not gdaughters
Does anyone have a connection to these Smith's please contact me.
glizzie1(a)bellsouth.net
=================================================================================
Clara Jane Benton, born Abt. 1883, m. Sweet Miles Childers
============================================================
Has anyone run across Savanna or Vanna Smith,Wilson,Childers,Hargrove.
Three marragies,first to a Pink Wilson second to a Logan Childers and
last to a Mr. Hargrove. Vanna had Bernice Wilson, Zelda Lee
Wilson,Louise Wilson,Broadus Wilson. Second marrage Minnie
Childers,Maggie Sue Childers,an Jack Childers. Do not know of any
childern by Mr. Hargrove. Vanna Smith is said to have been born about
1890,maybe near Mill Springs S.C. Any information would be very helpful.
thank you, john
==============================================================================
Goochland County, Va. Wills and Deeds, 1736-1742 by Benjamin B. Weisiger III
[
[book page 30] Peter Massie and Edward Bennet were witnesses to deed
from William Cannon of Goochland County to Abraham Childers living near
Tuckahoe Creek in Henrico Co. and Elizabeth, his wife, and William
Cannon Chillers (sic) son of said Abraham and Elizabeth, of 16 July
1739. Land on south side of James River bounded by William Megginson,
the river, Taylors Creek and said William Cannon ( no amount of acreage
stated)
===========================================================================================
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:RdBNDXgYpN4J:sutkin.net/d0001/g00000...
. Philemon "Lemon" CHILDERS BIRTH: 1656, Curles, Henrico Co., VA DEATH:
10 Jan 1717, Henrico Co., VA Family 1 : Mary EVAN MARRIAGE: 1669,
Henrico Co. VA "Philemon Sr. to son Abraham, same land and description
Shilliman Childers Sr. security for executors of John Woodson, Jr. ^u)
^1703 ^Philemon Sr. to Philemon Jr., two tracts north side of James
where Fhilemon I/ ' Jr. now lives and 1706 - Philemon Childers Sr. to
grandchildren Elizabeth and Tabitha, children of his son Abraham,
livestock when they reach sixteen years or marry (girls born after 1690)
Children:
1. (___) CHILDERS md James HORTON , Sr.
2. Thomas CHILDERS Family 1 : Mary HOLMES Family 2 : Mary MILNER
3. Abraham CHILDERS md Hester PLEDGE (CANNON) who married John Cannon first.
4. Philemon CHILDERS , Jr.
5. Mary CHILDERS md Humphrey SMITH
========================================================================================
http://pages.prodigy.net/blankenstein/abram_childers_&_jane_howard.htm
Philemon Childers b 1656 in Curles, Henrico County, Virginia was called
Lemon. He was involved with Nicholas Perkins in land purchase. He was a
planter and he died 10 Jan 1717 in Henrico. He married very young - in
1669 in Henrico Mary Evans daughter of Griffin Evans of Henrico County,
Virginia who died 15 May 1681. They had a daughter who married James
Horton Sr; Thomas who married Mary Holmes and Mary Milner; Abraham who
married Hester Pledge, widow of John Cannon; Philemon Jr; and Mary who
married her cousin Humphrey Smith. [A note says 1 source has his wife as
Mary Howard, daughter of John Howard. Another note questions whether
wife’s name was Hester or Ester - will of Abraham d 1720 clearly shows
Hester.]
To the list members,
The information below is just that. Information fyi only. If more
information is needed about the information, please visit the url
included with this post. Thanks........k
http://genforum.genealogy.com/smith/
Humphrey Smith was in Virginia very early. He was born about 1655. We
know that because he gave a deposition, now preserved in the Henrico
County records, and,in this deposition, he had to state his age. He
married Mary Childers, daughter of Mary and Philemon Childers, Sr. (who
was also born about 1655,) probably the son of "Lemon" Childers, who was
deeding 2 sows, a cow and a calf to his grandson James Horton 1682, son
of James Horton, Sr. who was born in 1650. The child was not to get the
animals until he was twelve years old.*
Right off the bat, we see that Humphrey Smith was old enough to be his
wife Mary's father. While that causes us to snicker in this day and
time, it was quite common in the Colonial times. I have no indication
that Humphrey was married before, so he must have been very choosy about
who his mate would be.
_____________________________________________________________________
* Every time I refer to early Henrico records, I am thankful for the
time and effort Mr. Benjamin Weisiger III put into abstracting these
records through 1750 (deeds) and 1787 (wills) and publishing them.
______________________________________________________________________
Philemon Childers, Sr. died in Henrico County, Virginia, about 1717 at
approximately 61 years of age. He, thankfully, provided us with a will,
and in it, he gave his daughter Mary Smith a feather bed, a seal skin
trunk, and other items. Now you are probably wondering how we could be
so sure that this Mary Smith was the wife of Humphrey. Well, they named
a son "Philemon," Smith and, later in the family, a grandchild was named
"Childers." That in itself is not positive proof, but after examining
the other Smith families in the area at that time, (and there weren't
many) I am comfortable in my reasoning.
Henrico Co Wills, p ?, proved May 1717---Will of Phillemon Childers, In
the name of God...
Item I give and bequeath to my son Phillemon Childers.(house goods and
heifer)
Item I give to my son Abram Childers...(bedding at Robert Blaws
plantation, goods at Thmas Matthewes, heifer,etc.),
Item I give to daughter Mary Smith... (bedding, goods, heifer,sealskin
trunk) all the rest of my personal estate
I give to my sonThomas Childers whom I make ... ordain and constitute my
whole and sole executor... Witnessed 10 Jan 1716, Edmond Lipstrott,
Rachell Lipstrott, Joseph Pleasants. Signed Phillemon (X) Childers
Senr.Philemon Childers , (Sr.):First located: 1704, Henrico Co VABuried:
Thos Matthews Plantation, Henrico Co VA
Thomas Childers:
Henrico Co VA Wills, pg 508, ---In the name of God I Thomas Childers of
theparish and county of Henrico being sick of body but of Perfect mind...
Imprimus, I give and devise to my son Philemon Childers one Tract or
dividend of land lying on the West side of land of my son
Thomas Childers and to goa straight course from a certain crosspath and
on the south side of the land of Benjamin Childers near Amos Lipstrock
to the head of Spring Branch near theplantation whereon I now dwell
thence down the said branch as far as my landdoth extend...
Item I give unto my son James Childers... land joining to a
certainspring branch being the line of my son Philemon and on the west
side of the land of my son John on the eastern side of Thomas Matthew's
land being the land and plantation on which I now dwell. Item I give...
to my wife Mary Childers all theremaining ... whom I constitute
executrix this 15th of Nov 1734. Witness Thomas(T) Matthews, Thomas (T)
Matthews Jr, Henry (X) Roe, Charles Woodson. SignedThomas Childers.
Recorded 3 Nov 173(5?).
Henrico Co Records - Southside by Fleet- Deed 28 May 1736, Sackiel
Brewer sellsto Wm Taylor of Henrico Co for L7, 75 acres lately purchaes
of Philemon Childers,Jr., son of Thomas Childers, dec'd. It is bounded
as by the will of sd Thos Childers dec'd in Henrico County on the North
side of the James River, etc...Signed. Wit WmRoyall, John Powell.
Recorded asst Monday in July, 1736 Thomas Childers:First located: 1704,
Henrico Co VA
Thomas Childrey, SR:
Henrico Co Wills, May Court 1758, p 237---Will of Thomas Childrey
presentedby Thomas Childrey executor and proved by Amos Liptrot and John
Pleasants Jr.
Ibid, p 1713, recorded May 1758---Will of Thomas Childrey
to son Benjamin Childrey, £10.
to son Jeremiah, bed I lie on, etc and wearing apparel.
to daughter Elizabeth Stone, 40 shillings and £6 in goods at a store...
clear of here husband William Stone and if she die to her
children.
To son Thomas, JR all the land whereon I live. Dated 29 Jun 1750.
Witness John Pleasants, Jr., Richard Coward, Amos Liptrot.
Thomas Childrey , (Jr.):
Henric Co Wills, p 55---Certified by Thomas Childrey one of the
executors as, Will of Thomas Childrey:
to nephew Thomas Childrey, son of Benjamin Childrey two parcels of land
containing 100 acres each, one where I now live and the other purchased
of John Hobson, 8 negroes and items and all not hereafter given.
To Sarah Childrey £30.
To Thomas Bates, one negro on paying Thomas Childrey £25. Executors:
Thomas Childrey and Thomas Bates. Dated 1772.
Hatcher, Benjamin (1644-1728)
Benjamin Hatcher, son of William Hatcher the Immigrant, married on or
before Juneof 1680 Elizabeth, the daughter of John Greenhaugh. His will
is dated12 Apr 1727 and probated October 1728. [WILLS & DEEDS
(1725-1737), p 215.] In ithe names sons 1.Benjamin,
2.Henry, and
3.Jeremiah, and daughters
4.Sarah,
5.Elizabeth Childrey,
6.Mary Tindall, and
7.Martha Hobson and his
wife Elizabeth. There
were two other sons also--
8.William who died in 1716, and
9.John.
Humphrey Smith bought 900 (sic) acres in Henrico County from Alexander
and Mary Mekenny in 1689 and another 40 acres from them in 1694. I
believe the Henrico clerk made an error in recording the number of acres
in the first deed, because in 1708, the deed was confirmed by John
Pleasants and Co., and it was for only 100 acres. That makes more sense
as we see later that Humphrey gave a total of 140 acres to his three
children. Anyway, the deeds establish him firmly in Henrico County, and
that is our point.
________________________________________________________________________
Neighbors of the Smiths included Thomas Cocke, Sr. (b. 1639 d. 1697) and
William Cocke (whose wife was Sarah Perrin) In 1711, when William and
Sarah sold part of their land to John Hancock, John Smith, "son of
Humphrey Smith" was mentioned as a neighbor.
Information to be used only as a guide. I guareetee none of it...........k
World Family Tree Volume 105, Tree 496
CREED CHILDERS 1874-1880 SON OF PHILLIP CHILDERS 8 APR 1852- 24 MAR 1917
AND ELIZA J. MYERS 25 JUL 1857-20 NOV 1927.
PHILLIP CHILDERS WAS SON OF THOMAS CHILDERS 1810-1856 MARRIED 18 SEP
1837 AND CATHERINE HELMICK 13
OCT 1822-1857.
THOMAS CHILDERS WAS THE SON OF ROBERT CHILDERS 1780-1830... MARRIED 21
JAN 1806 AND MAY TALBERT 1769-1828.
ROBERT CHILDERS WAS THE SON OF ??TECUMSAH 1768-5 OCT 1813 AND ELIZ
CHILDERS 1756-1784 THAMES ONTARIO. ELIZABETH CHILDERS WAS THE DAUGHTER
OF WILLIAM CHILDERSS 1740-FEB 1803 HARRISON CO. WV AND MARTHA REBECCA
LOWTHER 1744-1761.
JAMES CHILDERS 1828, MARRIED 13 NOV 1848-1854 MARY JANE CARTER 1831-1854
JAMES WAS THE SON OF ROBERT CHILDERS IN THE ABOVE INFORMATION
JOHN CHILDERS 1761-1767 SON OF WILLIAM CHILDERS AND MARTHA REBECCA LOWTHER
JOHN T. CHILDERS 1817 MARRIED 31 MAR 1845 OLIVE BROWN 1824- 2NOV 1861.
JOHN T. CHILDERS WAS THE SON OF ROBERT CHILDERS AND MAY TALBERT.
CHILDREN OF JOHN T AND OLIVE WERE:
1. MARY J. CHILDERS 1847-1848
2. WRIGHT CHILDERS 1848-1849
3. SARAH CHILDERS 1849-1876 MD LEWIS McKINLEY
4. JOHN R. CHILDERS 1850-1879 MD MARGARET A. McKINLEY
5. ELVINA CHILDERS 1855-1856
6. ELMORE CHILDERS 1856-1889 MD LOUISA J. HUGHES
ROBERT CHILDERS 1801-1807 SON OF ROBERT CHILDERS AND MAY TALBERT.
===========================================================
Creed Childers found in World Family Tree Volume 5, Tree 647
JOHN CHILDERS 1706-1727 MARRIED JANE WARE 1701-1727 JOHN WAS THE SON OF
E. JOHN CHILDERS 1689-1761 AND ELIZ UNK 1667-1723
CHILDREN OF JOHN AND JANE WERE:
1. FRANCIS WARE CHILDERS 1727-1792
2. MOSEBY CHILDERS 1741-1783 DIED REV WAR AT BRANDYWINE BATTLE
3. WILLIAM CHILDERS 1741-BEF 1783 REV WAR-CAPTURED AND NEVER RETURNED
4. ABRAHAM CHILDRESS?? 1749-1849 MARRIED ELIZ UNK 1745-1770 CHILDREN OF
ABRAHAM AND ELIZ WERE:
1. WILLIAM CHILDRESS
2. FRANCIS CHILDRESS
3. POLLY CHILDRESS
4. DICY CHILDRESS
5. ABRAHAM CHILDRESS
6. ELIZABETH CHILDRESS
7. GOLDSBY CHILDRESS
8. SILEY CHILDRESS
E. JOHN CHILDERS 1789-1761 WAS THE SON OF ABRAHAM CHILDERS 1655-1696
AND ANN PEW/PUGH 1649-1698
ABRAHM WAS THE SON OF ABRAH CHILDERS 1605-1681 AND JANE "ANNE"HOWARD
1613-1659
FREDERICK CHILDERS 1746-1785 SON OF ABRAHAM CHILDERS MARRIED ANN UNK
1745-1764.
ABRAHAM CHILDERS WAS THE SON OF ABRAHAM CHILDERS 1700-1756 AND MARY UNK
1696- 1721.
ABRAHAM CHILDERS WAS THE SON OF C. ABRAHAM CHILDERS 1673-1720 AND HESTER
PLEDGE 1664-1703.
C. ABRAHAM CHILDERS WAS THE SON OF PHILLEMON "LEMON" CHILDERS 1656-1719
AND MARY UNK 1629 AND 1678
LEMON CHILDERS WAS THE SON OF ABRAH CHILDERS 1605-1681 AND JANE "ANNE"
HOWARD 1613-1656
==============================
History of Albemarle County, Virginia The history of Albemarle County,
Virginia, A description of the founding and events of this Virginia
county including narritives on its residents families from 1727-1890.
Bibliographic Information: Woods, Edgar Rev. History of Albemarle Co,
Virginia: The Michie Company, Printers, 1901 History of Albemarle
County, Virginia
Stephen Hughes was a large landholder near Charlottesville at the time
the town was established. In 1764 he purchased from John Grills nearly a
thousand acres on Moore's Creek, including the mouth of Biscuit Run. In
June 1762 he bought from Colonel Richard
Randolph, of Henrico, five hundred and fifty-eight acres lying mainly on
the east side of the present Scottsville Road, and extending from the
limits of the town beyond Moore's Creek; this tract, except a few acres,
he sold in 1765 to Creed Childress, who the same year sold it to
Nicholas Lewis.
Steve,
It is great that you pay such close attention to what is going on. Too bad
though that you seemed to have slept through the important points. So just
for you.
>Did someone say that Philemon I was the younger brother of Abraham II? I
>must have missed that message.
I think her name was Dennstedt. Does this ring a bell?
PROGENITORS AND KINFOLK OF ABRAHAM CHILDERS III
By Alberta Marjorie Dennstedt
San Diego, California
Has a familiar ring doesn't it? Wonder if anyone has mentioned her on this
list?
Again just for you, here is what she said:
The known children of Abrah Childers and his wife were:
+I. Abraham, married Ann Pew.
+II. Phillemon, married Mary .
Chapter 5
II. PHILEMON CHILDERS
In examining the existing records still viewable for Henrico County
concerning. Philemon Childers, nick-named Lemon, you find an interesting
person. He was uneducated, married at a very tender age, more or less a
child bridegroom. gave gifts to nephews, grandchildren and sons and was a
respected friend. To prove his birth year one must first consider the
acknowledment Lemon Childers made in "open Court" on 2 Oct. 1682. He gave to
his grandson James Horton, Jr., two sows, one cow named Flower, and a calf.
These animals were then in the possession of the grandson's father, James
Horton, Sr. When the child became 12 years old his father was to deliver to
him one cow and Calf or one cow with calf of six years and two sows with pig
or pigs by their sides. If the grandson died before 12 years of age the
animal were to return to Philemon. On 10 Feb. 1680/1 James Horton had made
a deposition and his age was stated to be about 30 years.
No further records of the father or son can be found so the baby must have
died. What was the year of Philemon's birth? His brother Abraham's birth has
been established as 1655 and he was the son and heir of his father. Philemon
had to be his younger twin or born within a year after Abraham, He was then
about 14 years old, which was allowed, when he married in 1669. His first
child must have been the mother of James Horton, Jr., and born ca. 1670. She
then would have been nearly 13 when she had her baby and died, since she was
not mentioned in the acknowledgment.
....
>
>However, it is quite possible that Philemon I is the OLDER brother of
>Abraham II!
Curious that Dennstedt didn't think so, and even said she didn't, and why
she didn't. And then there's that whole cousin issue, with her perculiar
twist.
Proof that Abraham had a brother named Philemon is provided by a deed of
gift of 20 Aug. 1686 whereby Philemon Childers gave for "good love and
affeccon wch I bear unto my cosens, Abraham, Henry and Robert sons of
Abraham Childers" a young sorrel mare about three years of age. The children
were underage.' Philemon made his mark as a circle with a horizontal line
through the middle. This deed was recorded the same day.
Now it all makes sense, doesn't it?
Green Ayres
PS Thanks, for the opportunity. You make a great straight man.
_________________________________________________________________
Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now!
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If Phil were married at 16 and had the first child (first ones always come
early), his first child would be 16 when he was 32. Then the same repeats,
he could have been a grandfather at 33 which would be in 1689. Quite
possible and even more probable in those days.
So why do you say impossible? Not that I believe it, I believe it possible.
Regards,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: childress-research-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
[mailto:childress-research-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Green Ayres
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 2:29 PM
To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] A simple question ........k
Kay and List,
I can't get some of you to get focused on this issue. Let's try again.
Here is what Kay is using -- from her source:
#5-3-6-1 Philemon CHILDERS b 1657 d 1717 Mary EVANS d/o Griffith EVANS.
Will of Philemon is found in Bk 1716/1717 Henrico Co,VA Will of Mary EVANS
in HenricoCoVA dtd 15 May 1691
Ch:
1. Abraham
2. Thomas b 1675 d 1735 m 1) Mary HOLMES d/o Thomas 2) Mary MILNER d/o
John & Katherine MILNER
3. Philemon
4. Mary m Humphrey SMITH, Sr
5. Daughter m c1681/2 James HORTON, Sr, had son James
This is the same as Dennstedt, which I have posted.
Now, who out there really believes that Philemon was born in 1657 and had a
grandson (James Horton Jr., son of James Horton and an unnamed daughter) in
1682. In 25 years, you believe that
1) Philemon grew up and got married;
2) Philemon had a daughter;
3) This daughter grew up and got married;
4) The grandson was born.
Now don't forget to add in 9 months for each pregancy. I'm still looking
for someone, anyone who actually believes this to step up and say so. If
you don't then why do some of you keep trotting this out as data. Either
defend it, or quit bringing it up. If it is indefensible, then it is
worthless as an argument.
Green Ayres
>From: KAY <NOMONEY6(a)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
>To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] A simple question ........k
>Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:38:25 -0400
>
>Green and list.
> Two different Philemon Childers. Will check for source.
>1. .Philemon bapt 26 Nov 1637. Went to Charles City Co Va 27 Oct 1673
>Son of Robert Childers and Mary Seaman
>braham
>SOURCES:
>1.Childers Family Date: Monday, May 19, 2003 9:22 AM From: Rdvsr(a)aol.com
>To: <childers(a)dca.net> Rodney Veitschegger, Bowling Green, Ky R.
>Veitschegger, 2072 Quail Run Dr., Bowling Green, Ky 42104
>e'mail: RDVSR(a)aol.com
>2.In an article in the Virginia Historical Society magazine which ran a
>series of articles on the CHILDERS family. I DO NOT KNOW WHICH EDITION,
>PAGE OR DATE.
>3.ALSO FROM MOLLY REIGARD'S WORK BOOK By Molly Reigard,
>Childers/Childress Researcher (deceased)
>:http://www.childers-childress.com/mollyreigardwookbook.doc.
>4.This document was scanned into Microsoft Word April 30, 2005 by Jack
>Childers, a member of the Childers/Childress Family Association.*A
>workbook for use in research of the CHILDERS/CHILDRESS family was first
>presented by me(*Jack Childers)* In Issue 57 - July 1 1988.
>5.http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jvoyles/alliedkiserfamilies/abra
hamchilders.htm
>*
>
>
> *Workbook No. 14*
>
>
> Generations: Robert CHILDERS (4) - Richard CHILDERS(3) - Ralph
> CHILDERS (2) - Childers (1) Spouse: Mary SEAMAN
>
>
> Robert CHILDERS, SR died about 1660/65. Married Mary SEAMAN, dau of
> James SEAMAN. Robert & Mary had children:
>
>
> 1.Robert CHILDERS, JR - buried 9 Sep 1642
>
>
> 2.James CHILDERS - born about 1635. Lived Sussex Co
> England 1674
>
>
> 3.Philemon CHILDERS - bapt 26 Nov 1637. Went to Charles City
> Co Va 27 Oct 1673
>
>
> 4.Thomas CHILDERS - bapt Q Mar 1640. Went to America 15 Apr
>1667.
>
>
> 5.Philip CHILDERS- BORN ABOUT 1645. TO HENRICO CO, VA 26 MAY 1675
>
>The Rector of South Wheatley (Mr. Chamberlain) is a great antiquarian
>and has spent years looking up old documents relating to his part of the
>country.
>
>Chancery Bills & Answers Bridges before 1714 Bundle 459 Childers v
>Seaman 11 July 1674
> James Childers of Barking in County Essex, yeoman, complains that
>whereas about the year 1652 Robert Childers plts., father late of
>Wenhaston of County Suffolk decd being seised of several messuages,
>lands, tenements in Wenhaston, of the clear yearly value of L50, & being
>obliged to sell the same could not make the purchaser a good title to
>the same unless Mary(Seaman) Childers his then wife since deced, plts,
>mother would join with him in levying of a fine, which she at length
>consented to do, on condition that out of the purchase money L350 should
>be placed in the hands of James Seaman late of Wenhaston, deced, father
>of the said Mary, for the use of her and her heirs, The said James
>Childers having received the said sum disposed of it at interest to Paul
>Seaman. Seaman of Wenhaston, who for the repayment thereof entered into
>a bond of L500, dated 7 Feb. 1652. The said Robert & Mary Childers are
>now both dead and the said Money is still unpaid, which aught to be paid
>to plt. as administrator of the goods of the said Mary Childers, but the
>sd James Seaman being dead, John Seaman his son & executor has combined
>with the sd Paul Seaman to "do" Plt. of the same.Plt. prays for remedy.
>
>
>
>2. PHILEMON CHILDERS = born 1657, died 1717 son of Abraham Childers I
>Philemon CHILDERS was born 1657, died 1717. He married Mary EVANS, dau
>of Griffith EVANS. The will of Mary EVANS CHILDERS will be found in
>Henrico Co Va dated 15 May 1691. Children of Philemon and Mary were:
>Will of Griffith EVANS w.w. 15 May 1681 w.p. 1 Aug 1681 bk 1 pg 173
>states: To Mary CHI LDRES the dau of Philemon CHI LDERS his stock of
>hogs, cattle etc. Other legatees, John AUST, Anne AUST, my worthy friend
>Mr. Thomas COCKE. To Philemon CHILDRES, sonne of Philemon CHILDRES Sr my
>gunne at Mr. Thomas COCKE's house. To Philemon CHILDRES Sir my
>broadcloth coate and my dimity wastecoat and foure yards of dimity. To
>Mary CHILDRES aforesaid my saddle and bridle.
>1.Abraham CHILDERS
>2.Thomas CHILDERS - born 1675 died 1735, married Mary
>3.Phitemon CHILDERS
>4.Mary CHILDERS married Humphrey SMITH. had sons Philemon & John SMITH.
>Humphrey SMITH be 1655 as per court disposition wherein he stated his ag
>5.dau CHILDERS- married James HORTON. They had son James who In 1682 was
>under age 12 and was given livestock by grandfather
>6.Philemon CHILDERS in 1682
>7.William CHILDERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Green Ayres wrote:
>
> > Kay and List,
> >
> > This is interesting:
> >
> >> 2.Philemon bapt 26 Nov 1637. Went to Charles City Co Va 27 Oct 1673
> >
> >
> > Do you have a source for the baptism?
> >
> > Doesn't this contradict what you included later ?
> >
> >> PHILEMON CHILDERS = born 1657, died 1717
> >
> >
> >
> > So, which is it? Do you think the 1637 date or the 1657 date is more
> > likely based on other data?
> >
> > Green AYres
> >
> >
> >> From: KAY <NOMONEY6(a)bellsouth.net>
> >> Reply-To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
> >> To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
> >> Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] A simple question ........k
> >> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:45:58 -0400
> >>
> >>
> >> 1.Abraham CHILDERS I BORN: 30 Nov 1618, Nottinghamshire or Leeds,
> >> Yorkshire, England * DIED: 15 Oct 1679, Henrico Co. VA
> >>
> >> 2.Philemon bapt 26 Nov 1637. Went to Charles City Co Va 27 Oct 1673.
> >>
> >> 3.ABRAHAM CHILDERS II= born 1655 at Curls, Henrico Co Va., died 1698
> >> Henrico Co Va -youngest of the two that were asked about, based on
>birth
> >> dates
> >> ===========================================================
> >>
> >>
> >> Philip born about 1645. To Henrico Co Va 26 May 1675
> >> Philip Childers born-1650 Henrico Co, VA
> >> PHILEMON CHILDERS = born 1657, died 1717
> >> Abraham - born 1677 in Henrico Co Va., died 1720 Henrico Co Va
> >> Philamon Childers born-c1680 in Henrico Co, VA Burial Henrico Co, VA
> >> Abraham Childers IIl born-c1681 in Henrico Co, VA Will dated November
> >> 28, 1768
> >> Philemon - born 1685
> >> Abraham CHILDERS born 1700 Henrico co Va, died 22 Dee 1763
> >> Abraham - born 1746 died 1812
> >> Abraham Childers b 15 Nov 1752 Albemarle Co Va , as per RWS pension
> >> application. Died 6 May 1849 Letcher Co Ky
> >> Abraham - born 1787, died 1867 Franklin Co Va
> >> Abraham CHILDERS,Jr - born 1800, went to Russell Co Va. Died 29 Dee
> >> 1887
> >> ABRAHAM CHILDERS born acout 1801, died 1 Mar 1866/7 Franklin Co Va
> >> Abram - born 1818
> >>
> >> -------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> >> CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
> >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Windows Live Spaces is here! It's easy to create your own personal Web
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> >
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>the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> >
>
>
>-------------------------------
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List,
Did someone say that Philemon I was the younger brother of Abraham II? I
must have missed that message.
However, it is quite possible that Philemon I is the OLDER brother of
Abraham II!
So which came first, the chicken or the farmer, Green?
Regards,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: childress-research-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
[mailto:childress-research-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Green Ayres
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:37 AM
To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
Lee,
I agree that there could have been two Thomases and am willing to leave the
question as to who the first Thomas was as open. The question as to who he
was does not impact the analysis of the data except for what we can say
about Thomas, son of Philemon. If we knew that there was only one Thomas,
then we could use the date of 1667 (assuming an age of 16 at the time of
transportation) to say that Thomas was born no later than 1651. If we are
restricted only to the later date of 1673, then (assuming an age of 16 at
the time of transportation) we would only be able to say that he was born no
later then 1657. In either case, Thomas and Abraham II are of the same
generation making it impossible for Philemon I (the father of Thomas) to
have been the younger brother of Abraham II as argued by Dennstedt.
Green
>From: "Lee Rau" <leerau(a)comcast.net>
>Reply-To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
>To: <childress-research(a)rootsweb.com>
>Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
>Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:52:21 -0400
>
>Green
>
>
>John Greenbaugh might have lived independently and thus in need of separate
>notification. The logic of a head of household list would seem to be that
>a
>household head would notify members of his household. The point is that
>the
>Thomas Childres/ers for whom land patents were granted in 1667 and 1674,
>respectively, could have been two individuals and not just one. That is
>possible not only because one could have been an elderly parent living in
>Henrico in 1679 and not listed in the 1679 list, but also because he had
>previously died or lived in another county. That does not mean that your
>analysis based on the absence of two Thomas' on the 1679 list is wrong,
>just
>that it must be understood with this possibility in mind. Conceivably, the
>elder Thomas might have been Philemon I's father as you have suggested
>based
>on naming conventions.
>
>
> Lee
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: childress-research-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
>[mailto:childress-research-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Green Ayres
>Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:18 AM
>To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
>
>Lee,
>
> >From Prichett's version we find the following
>
>John Greenhaugh (father-in-law of Benjamin Hatcher) 1
>Benjamin Hatcher 1
>
>If you follow the link to Benjamin Hatcher, you will find the following
>
>Benjamin married Elizabeth Greenhaugh, the daughter of John Greenhaugh
>(c.1614 [Henrico Co. Deeds & Wills 1677-92, p. 314] ),...
>
>One must wonder then why, using your logic, John Greenhaugh was included on
>the list. And, are we to assume that in the event of an Indian attack that
>they wouldn't be interested in notifying everyone? And, what would be the
>logic behind not including all tithables on this list?
>
>Let's cut to the chase. What particular elderly parents are you suggesting
>might not have been included? Or is this just a pointless argument, which
>has nothing to do with the data of interest?
>
>Green
>
> >From: "Lee Rau" <leerau(a)comcast.net>
> >Reply-To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
> >To: <childress-research(a)rootsweb.com>
> >Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
> >Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:44:10 -0400
> >
> >Green,
> >
> >Bacon's Rebellion was fueled primarily by the then government's failure
>to
> >defend the colonists adequately from Indian attacks. I understand that,
> >and
> >I agree that those that compiled the 1679 list in all probably were
>highly
> >motivated to achieve the goal of that compilation to strengthen colonial
> >defenses. It was though, a head of household list, designed I believe to
> >allocate notification responsibilities in the event of an Indian attack,
> >which, unlike a tax list, did not require a listing of every 16 or older
> >male in a household. I continue to believe that elderly parents were not
> >likely included in the 1679 list.
> >
> >
> > Lee
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: childress-research-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
> >[mailto:childress-research-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Green Ayres
> >Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:44 PM
> >To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
> >Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
> >
> >Lee,
> >
> >While later heads of household lists do indeed sometimes suffer from the
> >problems you listed, I disagree with your assessment regarding the
>Henrico
> >1679 one. There are several factors present at this time and place that
> >would have increased the likelyhood that a dilligent job would have been
> >done to make a complete list.
> >
> >1) The recent history of the two massacres, which would not have faded
>from
> >memory (1644 -- the last one -- to 1679 is a short enough period that
>some
> >of those present whould have been survivors of that one). This was a
> >serious issue.
> >
> >2) Conditions at the time. Bacon's rebelliiion was fueled only in part
>by
> >economic issues. The handling of the Indian issue was also very much
> >involved. Tied to all this were charges of corruption. Given this
> >setting,
> >
> >there would have been considerable pressure, from all sides, which would
> >have raised the stakes if the lists weren't done accurately.
> >
> >3) The fact Henrico County was fairly sparsely settled. A missing name
> >would stand out. Society was very tight by modern standards or even 18th
> >century standards. In many ways it is surprising what things did make it
> >into the Henrico County records during this time period. Our record
> >problem
> >
> >here is less than from most of other counties. Difficulties arise in
> >tracing the later generations as they move away from Henrico.
> >
> >Rather than this list being "particularly suspect" as you suggest, I
>think
> >it is more likely the opposite. I think this one was particulary good
>and
> >that was why I included it as I did. Comparing it to rent rolls, where
> >there would have been an economic incentative to try to avoid them, I do
> >not
> >
> >find appropriate in general. However, the 1704-5 rent roll was probable
> >better than most later ones for some of the reasons I cited. There were
>no
> >other lists from this time period.
> >
> >Green
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Lee Rau" <leerau(a)comcast.net>
> > >Reply-To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
> > >To: <childress-research(a)rootsweb.com>
> > >Subject: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
> > >Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:34:58 -0400
> > >
> > >Green,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I can find no fault with your suggestion that Philemon I
> > >married
> > >twice. I think the strongest evidence of this is Griffin Evans' will in
> > >which he bequeathed property to only two of Philemon's children. The
> >fact
> > >that John Howard requested that Philemon care for John's estate and his
> > >children, moreover, does indeed suggest that Philemon may have been
> >John's
> > >brother-in-law. Can you point me and other list members to further
> > >information on John in particular and the Howards in general?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Where I do have some reservations is with the constraints
> >you
> > >have suggested in earlier posts on the identity of early Childers/ress
> > >Virginia inhabitants. I agree that inferences can be drawn from the
> > >absence
> > >of individuals on tax lists, head of household lists, quit rent rolls
>and
> > >the like, but those inferences must be tempered with recognition that
> >those
> > >lists were often incomplete. I have spent time with original tax lists
> >and
> > >I have found most to have suffered at least some deterioration to the
> >point
> > >where data has been lost. Quite apart from lost data, is the problem
>of
> > >incomplete data. Even today, there are omissions in census data and
>the
> > >efforts to evade taxes and quit rents made accurate enumeration even
>more
> > >difficult. My understanding is that tax lists and quit rent rolls were
> > >usually inaccurate and incomplete. I think the 1679 Henrico head of
> > >household list is particularly suspect. According to John W.
>Pritchett,
> > >that list was compiled to comply with the provisions of "An act for the
> > >defence of the country against the incursions of the Indian Enemy."
> >Given
> > >that purpose, I think it unlikely that an elderly father living with a
> > >child
> > >would have been included in the list, and he may not have been included
> > >even
> > >if he were living independently, since the likely focus was on able
> >bodied
> > >men who could engage in active combat.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > With this in mind, I doubt that the 1667 and 1674 patents
> >that
> > >claim land based on the passage of a Thomas Childers are referring to
>the
> > >same Thomas Childers. Given the difficulty and expense of
>trans-oceanic
> > >travel in those days, I would expect the incidence of immigrant return
>to
> > >England and re-immigration to be extremely rare. I think it much more
> > >likely that they were indeed separate individuals, and for one reason
>or
> > >another were simply not included in the 1679 head of household list and
> >the
> > >1705 rent roll. One possible reason is that only one of the Thomas'
> >lived
> > >in Henrico County. Another is that one of the Thomas' may have died.
>A
> > >third is that one was an elderly parent living in his child's
>household.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Lee
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-------------------------------
> > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > >CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
> >without
> >
> > >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> >
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> >
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>
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Green and list.
Two different Philemon Childers. Will check for source.
1. .Philemon bapt 26 Nov 1637. Went to Charles City Co Va 27 Oct 1673
Son of Robert Childers and Mary Seaman
braham
SOURCES:
1.Childers Family Date: Monday, May 19, 2003 9:22 AM From: Rdvsr(a)aol.com
To: <childers(a)dca.net> Rodney Veitschegger, Bowling Green, Ky R.
Veitschegger, 2072 Quail Run Dr., Bowling Green, Ky 42104
e'mail: RDVSR(a)aol.com
2.In an article in the Virginia Historical Society magazine which ran a
series of articles on the CHILDERS family. I DO NOT KNOW WHICH EDITION,
PAGE OR DATE.
3.ALSO FROM MOLLY REIGARD'S WORK BOOK By Molly Reigard,
Childers/Childress Researcher (deceased)
:http://www.childers-childress.com/mollyreigardwookbook.doc.
4.This document was scanned into Microsoft Word April 30, 2005 by Jack
Childers, a member of the Childers/Childress Family Association.*A
workbook for use in research of the CHILDERS/CHILDRESS family was first
presented by me(*Jack Childers)* In Issue 57 - July 1 1988.
5.http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jvoyles/alliedkiserfamilies/ab...
*
*Workbook No. 14*
Generations: Robert CHILDERS (4) - Richard CHILDERS(3) - Ralph
CHILDERS (2) - Childers (1) Spouse: Mary SEAMAN
Robert CHILDERS, SR died about 1660/65. Married Mary SEAMAN, dau of
James SEAMAN. Robert & Mary had children:
1.Robert CHILDERS, JR - buried 9 Sep 1642
2.James CHILDERS - born about 1635. Lived Sussex Co
England 1674
3.Philemon CHILDERS - bapt 26 Nov 1637. Went to Charles City
Co Va 27 Oct 1673
4.Thomas CHILDERS - bapt Q Mar 1640. Went to America 15 Apr 1667.
5.Philip CHILDERS- BORN ABOUT 1645. TO HENRICO CO, VA 26 MAY 1675
The Rector of South Wheatley (Mr. Chamberlain) is a great antiquarian
and has spent years looking up old documents relating to his part of the
country.
Chancery Bills & Answers Bridges before 1714 Bundle 459 Childers v
Seaman 11 July 1674
James Childers of Barking in County Essex, yeoman, complains that
whereas about the year 1652 Robert Childers plts., father late of
Wenhaston of County Suffolk decd being seised of several messuages,
lands, tenements in Wenhaston, of the clear yearly value of L50, & being
obliged to sell the same could not make the purchaser a good title to
the same unless Mary(Seaman) Childers his then wife since deced, plts,
mother would join with him in levying of a fine, which she at length
consented to do, on condition that out of the purchase money L350 should
be placed in the hands of James Seaman late of Wenhaston, deced, father
of the said Mary, for the use of her and her heirs, The said James
Childers having received the said sum disposed of it at interest to Paul
Seaman. Seaman of Wenhaston, who for the repayment thereof entered into
a bond of L500, dated 7 Feb. 1652. The said Robert & Mary Childers are
now both dead and the said Money is still unpaid, which aught to be paid
to plt. as administrator of the goods of the said Mary Childers, but the
sd James Seaman being dead, John Seaman his son & executor has combined
with the sd Paul Seaman to "do" Plt. of the same.Plt. prays for remedy.
2. PHILEMON CHILDERS = born 1657, died 1717 son of Abraham Childers I
Philemon CHILDERS was born 1657, died 1717. He married Mary EVANS, dau
of Griffith EVANS. The will of Mary EVANS CHILDERS will be found in
Henrico Co Va dated 15 May 1691. Children of Philemon and Mary were:
Will of Griffith EVANS w.w. 15 May 1681 w.p. 1 Aug 1681 bk 1 pg 173
states: To Mary CHI LDRES the dau of Philemon CHI LDERS his stock of
hogs, cattle etc. Other legatees, John AUST, Anne AUST, my worthy friend
Mr. Thomas COCKE. To Philemon CHILDRES, sonne of Philemon CHILDRES Sr my
gunne at Mr. Thomas COCKE's house. To Philemon CHILDRES Sir my
broadcloth coate and my dimity wastecoat and foure yards of dimity. To
Mary CHILDRES aforesaid my saddle and bridle.
1.Abraham CHILDERS
2.Thomas CHILDERS - born 1675 died 1735, married Mary
3.Phitemon CHILDERS
4.Mary CHILDERS married Humphrey SMITH. had sons Philemon & John SMITH.
Humphrey SMITH be 1655 as per court disposition wherein he stated his ag
5.dau CHILDERS- married James HORTON. They had son James who In 1682 was
under age 12 and was given livestock by grandfather
6.Philemon CHILDERS in 1682
7.William CHILDERS
Green Ayres wrote:
> Kay and List,
>
> This is interesting:
>
>> 2.Philemon bapt 26 Nov 1637. Went to Charles City Co Va 27 Oct 1673
>
>
> Do you have a source for the baptism?
>
> Doesn't this contradict what you included later ?
>
>> PHILEMON CHILDERS = born 1657, died 1717
>
>
>
> So, which is it? Do you think the 1637 date or the 1657 date is more
> likely based on other data?
>
> Green AYres
>
>
>> From: KAY <NOMONEY6(a)bellsouth.net>
>> Reply-To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
>> To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] A simple question ........k
>> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:45:58 -0400
>>
>>
>> 1.Abraham CHILDERS I BORN: 30 Nov 1618, Nottinghamshire or Leeds,
>> Yorkshire, England * DIED: 15 Oct 1679, Henrico Co. VA
>>
>> 2.Philemon bapt 26 Nov 1637. Went to Charles City Co Va 27 Oct 1673.
>>
>> 3.ABRAHAM CHILDERS II= born 1655 at Curls, Henrico Co Va., died 1698
>> Henrico Co Va -youngest of the two that were asked about, based on birth
>> dates
>> ===========================================================
>>
>>
>> Philip born about 1645. To Henrico Co Va 26 May 1675
>> Philip Childers born-1650 Henrico Co, VA
>> PHILEMON CHILDERS = born 1657, died 1717
>> Abraham - born 1677 in Henrico Co Va., died 1720 Henrico Co Va
>> Philamon Childers born-c1680 in Henrico Co, VA Burial Henrico Co, VA
>> Abraham Childers IIl born-c1681 in Henrico Co, VA Will dated November
>> 28, 1768
>> Philemon - born 1685
>> Abraham CHILDERS born 1700 Henrico co Va, died 22 Dee 1763
>> Abraham - born 1746 died 1812
>> Abraham Childers b 15 Nov 1752 Albemarle Co Va , as per RWS pension
>> application. Died 6 May 1849 Letcher Co Ky
>> Abraham - born 1787, died 1867 Franklin Co Va
>> Abraham CHILDERS,Jr - born 1800, went to Russell Co Va. Died 29 Dee
>> 1887
>> ABRAHAM CHILDERS born acout 1801, died 1 Mar 1866/7 Franklin Co Va
>> Abram - born 1818
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
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>
Lee,
I agree that there could have been two Thomases and am willing to leave the
question as to who the first Thomas was as open. The question as to who he
was does not impact the analysis of the data except for what we can say
about Thomas, son of Philemon. If we knew that there was only one Thomas,
then we could use the date of 1667 (assuming an age of 16 at the time of
transportation) to say that Thomas was born no later than 1651. If we are
restricted only to the later date of 1673, then (assuming an age of 16 at
the time of transportation) we would only be able to say that he was born no
later then 1657. In either case, Thomas and Abraham II are of the same
generation making it impossible for Philemon I (the father of Thomas) to
have been the younger brother of Abraham II as argued by Dennstedt.
Green
>From: "Lee Rau" <leerau(a)comcast.net>
>Reply-To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
>To: <childress-research(a)rootsweb.com>
>Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
>Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:52:21 -0400
>
>Green
>
>
>John Greenbaugh might have lived independently and thus in need of separate
>notification. The logic of a head of household list would seem to be that
>a
>household head would notify members of his household. The point is that
>the
>Thomas Childres/ers for whom land patents were granted in 1667 and 1674,
>respectively, could have been two individuals and not just one. That is
>possible not only because one could have been an elderly parent living in
>Henrico in 1679 and not listed in the 1679 list, but also because he had
>previously died or lived in another county. That does not mean that your
>analysis based on the absence of two Thomas' on the 1679 list is wrong,
>just
>that it must be understood with this possibility in mind. Conceivably, the
>elder Thomas might have been Philemon I's father as you have suggested
>based
>on naming conventions.
>
>
> Lee
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: childress-research-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
>[mailto:childress-research-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Green Ayres
>Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:18 AM
>To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
>
>Lee,
>
> >From Prichett's version we find the following
>
>John Greenhaugh (father-in-law of Benjamin Hatcher) 1
>Benjamin Hatcher 1
>
>If you follow the link to Benjamin Hatcher, you will find the following
>
>Benjamin married Elizabeth Greenhaugh, the daughter of John Greenhaugh
>(c.1614 [Henrico Co. Deeds & Wills 1677-92, p. 314] ),...
>
>One must wonder then why, using your logic, John Greenhaugh was included on
>the list. And, are we to assume that in the event of an Indian attack that
>they wouldn't be interested in notifying everyone? And, what would be the
>logic behind not including all tithables on this list?
>
>Let's cut to the chase. What particular elderly parents are you suggesting
>might not have been included? Or is this just a pointless argument, which
>has nothing to do with the data of interest?
>
>Green
>
> >From: "Lee Rau" <leerau(a)comcast.net>
> >Reply-To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
> >To: <childress-research(a)rootsweb.com>
> >Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
> >Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:44:10 -0400
> >
> >Green,
> >
> >Bacon's Rebellion was fueled primarily by the then government's failure
>to
> >defend the colonists adequately from Indian attacks. I understand that,
> >and
> >I agree that those that compiled the 1679 list in all probably were
>highly
> >motivated to achieve the goal of that compilation to strengthen colonial
> >defenses. It was though, a head of household list, designed I believe to
> >allocate notification responsibilities in the event of an Indian attack,
> >which, unlike a tax list, did not require a listing of every 16 or older
> >male in a household. I continue to believe that elderly parents were not
> >likely included in the 1679 list.
> >
> >
> > Lee
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: childress-research-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
> >[mailto:childress-research-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Green Ayres
> >Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:44 PM
> >To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
> >Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
> >
> >Lee,
> >
> >While later heads of household lists do indeed sometimes suffer from the
> >problems you listed, I disagree with your assessment regarding the
>Henrico
> >1679 one. There are several factors present at this time and place that
> >would have increased the likelyhood that a dilligent job would have been
> >done to make a complete list.
> >
> >1) The recent history of the two massacres, which would not have faded
>from
> >memory (1644 -- the last one -- to 1679 is a short enough period that
>some
> >of those present whould have been survivors of that one). This was a
> >serious issue.
> >
> >2) Conditions at the time. Bacon's rebelliiion was fueled only in part
>by
> >economic issues. The handling of the Indian issue was also very much
> >involved. Tied to all this were charges of corruption. Given this
> >setting,
> >
> >there would have been considerable pressure, from all sides, which would
> >have raised the stakes if the lists weren't done accurately.
> >
> >3) The fact Henrico County was fairly sparsely settled. A missing name
> >would stand out. Society was very tight by modern standards or even 18th
> >century standards. In many ways it is surprising what things did make it
> >into the Henrico County records during this time period. Our record
> >problem
> >
> >here is less than from most of other counties. Difficulties arise in
> >tracing the later generations as they move away from Henrico.
> >
> >Rather than this list being "particularly suspect" as you suggest, I
>think
> >it is more likely the opposite. I think this one was particulary good
>and
> >that was why I included it as I did. Comparing it to rent rolls, where
> >there would have been an economic incentative to try to avoid them, I do
> >not
> >
> >find appropriate in general. However, the 1704-5 rent roll was probable
> >better than most later ones for some of the reasons I cited. There were
>no
> >other lists from this time period.
> >
> >Green
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Lee Rau" <leerau(a)comcast.net>
> > >Reply-To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
> > >To: <childress-research(a)rootsweb.com>
> > >Subject: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
> > >Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:34:58 -0400
> > >
> > >Green,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I can find no fault with your suggestion that Philemon I
> > >married
> > >twice. I think the strongest evidence of this is Griffin Evans' will in
> > >which he bequeathed property to only two of Philemon's children. The
> >fact
> > >that John Howard requested that Philemon care for John's estate and his
> > >children, moreover, does indeed suggest that Philemon may have been
> >John's
> > >brother-in-law. Can you point me and other list members to further
> > >information on John in particular and the Howards in general?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Where I do have some reservations is with the constraints
> >you
> > >have suggested in earlier posts on the identity of early Childers/ress
> > >Virginia inhabitants. I agree that inferences can be drawn from the
> > >absence
> > >of individuals on tax lists, head of household lists, quit rent rolls
>and
> > >the like, but those inferences must be tempered with recognition that
> >those
> > >lists were often incomplete. I have spent time with original tax lists
> >and
> > >I have found most to have suffered at least some deterioration to the
> >point
> > >where data has been lost. Quite apart from lost data, is the problem
>of
> > >incomplete data. Even today, there are omissions in census data and
>the
> > >efforts to evade taxes and quit rents made accurate enumeration even
>more
> > >difficult. My understanding is that tax lists and quit rent rolls were
> > >usually inaccurate and incomplete. I think the 1679 Henrico head of
> > >household list is particularly suspect. According to John W.
>Pritchett,
> > >that list was compiled to comply with the provisions of "An act for the
> > >defence of the country against the incursions of the Indian Enemy."
> >Given
> > >that purpose, I think it unlikely that an elderly father living with a
> > >child
> > >would have been included in the list, and he may not have been included
> > >even
> > >if he were living independently, since the likely focus was on able
> >bodied
> > >men who could engage in active combat.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > With this in mind, I doubt that the 1667 and 1674 patents
> >that
> > >claim land based on the passage of a Thomas Childers are referring to
>the
> > >same Thomas Childers. Given the difficulty and expense of
>trans-oceanic
> > >travel in those days, I would expect the incidence of immigrant return
>to
> > >England and re-immigration to be extremely rare. I think it much more
> > >likely that they were indeed separate individuals, and for one reason
>or
> > >another were simply not included in the 1679 head of household list and
> >the
> > >1705 rent roll. One possible reason is that only one of the Thomas'
> >lived
> > >in Henrico County. Another is that one of the Thomas' may have died.
>A
> > >third is that one was an elderly parent living in his child's
>household.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Lee
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-------------------------------
> > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > >CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
> >without
> >
> > >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get the new Windows Live Messenger!
> >http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=
>w
> >lmailtagline
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------
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> >CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
>without
> >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> >CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
>without
>
> >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
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>
>
>
>
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Too arrogant to read.... I did pick. First sentence. Look at it
again....closely.......or did your ego get in the way?
Regards,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: childress-research-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
[mailto:childress-research-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Green Ayres
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 7:27 PM
To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] A simple question
Steve,
What's the matter, too chicken to pick? Or, maybe you're just wary of that
farmer -- so, too gun shy to pick?
Green
>From: "Steve Stevens" <steve.stevens(a)verizon.net>
>Reply-To: steve.stevens(a)verizon.net, childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
>To: <childress-research(a)rootsweb.com>
>Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] A simple question
>Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:54:53 -0400
>
>Here we go again...........
>
>If we go by your ground rules, which we usually have to, Philemon I is
>older
>than Abraham II or Abraham I did not feel that he (Abraham II) was ready to
>own land until 1680. Abraham II would have turned 21 in 1677. Philemon I
>is in the tax list of 1679 with 1 tiithables, Abraham I has 2. Abraham II
>didn't make it until 1705. But in 1705 there are two separate Philips, Jr
>&
>Sr so Jr would have had to have been 21.
>
>Anyway, what's the answer?
>
>Regards,
>Steve
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: childress-research-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
>[mailto:childress-research-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Green Ayres
>Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:50 PM
>To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: [CHILDRESS] A simple question
>
>
>Dear List,
>
>I'm curious at this point as to where people are on some of this. I think
>a
>simple question would suffice in this regard.
>
>Question. Who was older, Philemon I or Abraham II?
>
>Green Ayres
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Got something to buy, sell or swap? Try Windows Live Expo
>ttp://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://exp
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>.live.com/
>
>
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
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>
>-------------------------------
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>the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
_________________________________________________________________
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Here we go again...........
If we go by your ground rules, which we usually have to, Philemon I is older
than Abraham II or Abraham I did not feel that he (Abraham II) was ready to
own land until 1680. Abraham II would have turned 21 in 1677. Philemon I
is in the tax list of 1679 with 1 tiithables, Abraham I has 2. Abraham II
didn't make it until 1705. But in 1705 there are two separate Philips, Jr &
Sr so Jr would have had to have been 21.
Anyway, what's the answer?
Regards,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: childress-research-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
[mailto:childress-research-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Green Ayres
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:50 PM
To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [CHILDRESS] A simple question
Dear List,
I'm curious at this point as to where people are on some of this. I think a
simple question would suffice in this regard.
Question. Who was older, Philemon I or Abraham II?
Green Ayres
_________________________________________________________________
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Dear List,
I'm curious at this point as to where people are on some of this. I think a
simple question would suffice in this regard.
Question. Who was older, Philemon I or Abraham II?
Green Ayres
_________________________________________________________________
Got something to buy, sell or swap? Try Windows Live Expo
ttp://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://e...
Lee,
While later heads of household lists do indeed sometimes suffer from the
problems you listed, I disagree with your assessment regarding the Henrico
1679 one. There are several factors present at this time and place that
would have increased the likelyhood that a dilligent job would have been
done to make a complete list.
1) The recent history of the two massacres, which would not have faded from
memory (1644 -- the last one -- to 1679 is a short enough period that some
of those present whould have been survivors of that one). This was a
serious issue.
2) Conditions at the time. Bacon's rebelliiion was fueled only in part by
economic issues. The handling of the Indian issue was also very much
involved. Tied to all this were charges of corruption. Given this setting,
there would have been considerable pressure, from all sides, which would
have raised the stakes if the lists weren't done accurately.
3) The fact Henrico County was fairly sparsely settled. A missing name
would stand out. Society was very tight by modern standards or even 18th
century standards. In many ways it is surprising what things did make it
into the Henrico County records during this time period. Our record problem
here is less than from most of other counties. Difficulties arise in
tracing the later generations as they move away from Henrico.
Rather than this list being "particularly suspect" as you suggest, I think
it is more likely the opposite. I think this one was particulary good and
that was why I included it as I did. Comparing it to rent rolls, where
there would have been an economic incentative to try to avoid them, I do not
find appropriate in general. However, the 1704-5 rent roll was probable
better than most later ones for some of the reasons I cited. There were no
other lists from this time period.
Green
>From: "Lee Rau" <leerau(a)comcast.net>
>Reply-To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
>To: <childress-research(a)rootsweb.com>
>Subject: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
>Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:34:58 -0400
>
>Green,
>
>
>
> I can find no fault with your suggestion that Philemon I
>married
>twice. I think the strongest evidence of this is Griffin Evans' will in
>which he bequeathed property to only two of Philemon's children. The fact
>that John Howard requested that Philemon care for John's estate and his
>children, moreover, does indeed suggest that Philemon may have been John's
>brother-in-law. Can you point me and other list members to further
>information on John in particular and the Howards in general?
>
>
>
> Where I do have some reservations is with the constraints you
>have suggested in earlier posts on the identity of early Childers/ress
>Virginia inhabitants. I agree that inferences can be drawn from the
>absence
>of individuals on tax lists, head of household lists, quit rent rolls and
>the like, but those inferences must be tempered with recognition that those
>lists were often incomplete. I have spent time with original tax lists and
>I have found most to have suffered at least some deterioration to the point
>where data has been lost. Quite apart from lost data, is the problem of
>incomplete data. Even today, there are omissions in census data and the
>efforts to evade taxes and quit rents made accurate enumeration even more
>difficult. My understanding is that tax lists and quit rent rolls were
>usually inaccurate and incomplete. I think the 1679 Henrico head of
>household list is particularly suspect. According to John W. Pritchett,
>that list was compiled to comply with the provisions of "An act for the
>defence of the country against the incursions of the Indian Enemy." Given
>that purpose, I think it unlikely that an elderly father living with a
>child
>would have been included in the list, and he may not have been included
>even
>if he were living independently, since the likely focus was on able bodied
>men who could engage in active combat.
>
>
>
> With this in mind, I doubt that the 1667 and 1674 patents that
>claim land based on the passage of a Thomas Childers are referring to the
>same Thomas Childers. Given the difficulty and expense of trans-oceanic
>travel in those days, I would expect the incidence of immigrant return to
>England and re-immigration to be extremely rare. I think it much more
>likely that they were indeed separate individuals, and for one reason or
>another were simply not included in the 1679 head of household list and the
>1705 rent roll. One possible reason is that only one of the Thomas' lived
>in Henrico County. Another is that one of the Thomas' may have died. A
>third is that one was an elderly parent living in his child's household.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Lee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
>the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
_________________________________________________________________
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I have received word from Patrick Childress that he will have to assume
another DNA project responsibility and will not have sufficient time to look
for and assemble wills connected to Child??.
Some of these wills have already been placed on the web by me and only
require the snooping and querying to obtain any and all others available.
Is there someone out there who would like to take on this very important
project to this timeline? I am sure we have people out there who can
forward via email some of these plus a little querying around Rootsweb and
other sites may render some as well.
There is someone out there just itching to help. We would ALL appreciate
the effort. Thanks!
Regards,
Steve
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I have updated the site with minor changes. One difference I should point
out is I have created a dedicated research links page. If you have some
favorite research links and feel like everyone should have them, please send
them to me and I will include them on this page. Family web pages, if
connected to the Child?? line (like who isn't) only please! General
libraries with great online research areas are welcome.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2p5sj/childres/welcome.htm
We still need volunteers and data, so if you have marriages, births, wills,
etc to contribute, please do, but check the site first to make sure we do
not duplicate and please use the provided template (Preferred submission of
Wills or full length legal document transcriptions are Word, WordPad or any
general text editor.
Patrick Childress is working on wills, Rebecca Graham and Betty Rudolph are
working on census data, but I'm sure they all could use help!
Thanks for your time and information.
Regards,
Steve
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Lee,
In regard to what you were saying about multiple trans-oceanic travels, I
must inject that land grants were also given for voyages from within the
colony so we can not assume multi-trans-oceanic.
I reference a very important link I posted to this list as well as on the
website, 18th Century Virginia Law. "Patents. An early law to encourage
immigration to Virginia gave 50 acres of land for each person transported
into the Colony to the person who brought him. Transport across the Potomac
from Maryland counted equally to bringing someone from Europe. No limit was
stipulated on how many times the same person could qualify. Certification
of the entry was made by a jury of the county court where the land was
located. Certificates could be bought and sold. The patent escheated if
there was no legal heir and no one had bought the land before the patentee
died. Escheat meant it reverted to the crown or in Northern Virginia after
1692 to the
Proprietor of the Northern Neck."
I can not emphasize the importance of reading this lecture before coming to
any conclusions in deeds, wills, patents, etc.
Regards,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: childress-research-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
[mailto:childress-research-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Lee Rau
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 1:35 PM
To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [CHILDRESS] Philemon I
Green,
I can find no fault with your suggestion that Philemon I married
twice. I think the strongest evidence of this is Griffin Evans' will in
which he bequeathed property to only two of Philemon's children. The fact
that John Howard requested that Philemon care for John's estate and his
children, moreover, does indeed suggest that Philemon may have been John's
brother-in-law. Can you point me and other list members to further
information on John in particular and the Howards in general?
Where I do have some reservations is with the constraints you
have suggested in earlier posts on the identity of early Childers/ress
Virginia inhabitants. I agree that inferences can be drawn from the absence
of individuals on tax lists, head of household lists, quit rent rolls and
the like, but those inferences must be tempered with recognition that those
lists were often incomplete. I have spent time with original tax lists and
I have found most to have suffered at least some deterioration to the point
where data has been lost. Quite apart from lost data, is the problem of
incomplete data. Even today, there are omissions in census data and the
efforts to evade taxes and quit rents made accurate enumeration even more
difficult. My understanding is that tax lists and quit rent rolls were
usually inaccurate and incomplete. I think the 1679 Henrico head of
household list is particularly suspect. According to John W. Pritchett,
that list was compiled to comply with the provisions of "An act for the
defence of the country against the incursions of the Indian Enemy." Given
that purpose, I think it unlikely that an elderly father living with a child
would have been included in the list, and he may not have been included even
if he were living independently, since the likely focus was on able bodied
men who could engage in active combat.
With this in mind, I doubt that the 1667 and 1674 patents that
claim land based on the passage of a Thomas Childers are referring to the
same Thomas Childers. Given the difficulty and expense of trans-oceanic
travel in those days, I would expect the incidence of immigrant return to
England and re-immigration to be extremely rare. I think it much more
likely that they were indeed separate individuals, and for one reason or
another were simply not included in the 1679 head of household list and the
1705 rent roll. One possible reason is that only one of the Thomas' lived
in Henrico County. Another is that one of the Thomas' may have died. A
third is that one was an elderly parent living in his child's household.
Lee
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Green,
I can find no fault with your suggestion that Philemon I married
twice. I think the strongest evidence of this is Griffin Evans' will in
which he bequeathed property to only two of Philemon's children. The fact
that John Howard requested that Philemon care for John's estate and his
children, moreover, does indeed suggest that Philemon may have been John's
brother-in-law. Can you point me and other list members to further
information on John in particular and the Howards in general?
Where I do have some reservations is with the constraints you
have suggested in earlier posts on the identity of early Childers/ress
Virginia inhabitants. I agree that inferences can be drawn from the absence
of individuals on tax lists, head of household lists, quit rent rolls and
the like, but those inferences must be tempered with recognition that those
lists were often incomplete. I have spent time with original tax lists and
I have found most to have suffered at least some deterioration to the point
where data has been lost. Quite apart from lost data, is the problem of
incomplete data. Even today, there are omissions in census data and the
efforts to evade taxes and quit rents made accurate enumeration even more
difficult. My understanding is that tax lists and quit rent rolls were
usually inaccurate and incomplete. I think the 1679 Henrico head of
household list is particularly suspect. According to John W. Pritchett,
that list was compiled to comply with the provisions of "An act for the
defence of the country against the incursions of the Indian Enemy." Given
that purpose, I think it unlikely that an elderly father living with a child
would have been included in the list, and he may not have been included even
if he were living independently, since the likely focus was on able bodied
men who could engage in active combat.
With this in mind, I doubt that the 1667 and 1674 patents that
claim land based on the passage of a Thomas Childers are referring to the
same Thomas Childers. Given the difficulty and expense of trans-oceanic
travel in those days, I would expect the incidence of immigrant return to
England and re-immigration to be extremely rare. I think it much more
likely that they were indeed separate individuals, and for one reason or
another were simply not included in the 1679 head of household list and the
1705 rent roll. One possible reason is that only one of the Thomas' lived
in Henrico County. Another is that one of the Thomas' may have died. A
third is that one was an elderly parent living in his child's household.
Lee
Lee, Mary Jean and List,
I agree that Thomas(Thomas,Philemon I) and William(Philemon II, Philemon I)
were first cousins. What I would like to persue further is the question of
Mary Evans being the mother of both Thomas and Philemon II. While the most
likely interpretation of the data from the will of Griffin Evans
Colonial Wills Of
HENRICO COUNTY, VIRGINIA
PART ONE 1677-1737
Abstracted & Compiled by Benjamin B. Weisiger III
p. 173 Will of Griffin Evans Dated May 15,1681
To Mary Childres, daughter of Philemon Childres, 20 hogs, except 1 barrow I
give to loving friend John Aust
Also I give to said Mary other livestock and items
To loving friend John Aust, livestock
To Anne Aust, daughter of John Aust, livestock
Joseph Berekhead is indebted to me 1 pr. plain shoes; give these to John
Aust
To Temperance Cocke, 315 lbs. tobacco due me from John Baxter
To Mr. Thomas Cocke, 5 shillings due me from John Baxter
To John Aust, 3 shillings, 6 pence Joseph Harwood owes me
To Mr. Thomas Cocke's servant Jacke, I give a pr. of plain shoes William
Cocke owes me
To worthy friend Mr. Thomas Cocke, 40 lbs. tobacco ir hands of William Cocke
To Philemon Childres, son of Philemon Childres, a gunn, and suk and cloth
To Mary Childres, my chest and all therein
To Mr. Thomas Cocke, what shall appear to be cominf to me for my wages.
To Mary Childres, my saddle and bridle
Wit: Anne Marshall, Hugh Davis
Probated 1 Aug. 1681
is that
1) Mary Evans was married to Philemon I and
2) Mary was the mother of Mary and Philemon II,
I don't think we can go beyond this. It is highly likely that Philemon had
more than one wife. Consider the daughter who married James Horton. From
Dennstedt:
.... Lemon Childers made in "open Court" on 2 Oct. 1682. He gave to his
grandson James Horton, Jr., two sows, one cow named Flower, and a calf.
These animals were then in the possession of the grandson's father, James
Horton, Sr. When the child became 12 years old his father was to deliver to
him one cow and Calf or one cow with calf of six years and two sows with pig
or pigs by their sides. If the grandson died before 12 years of age the
animal were to return to Philemon. {Henrico Co., Va., Record Bk. 1677-92, p.
227} On 10 Feb. 1680/1 James Horton had made a deposition and his age was
stated to be about 30 years. {Benjamin B. Weisiger, Henrico County,
Virginia, Deeds, 1677-1705 (Richmond, 1986), p.?}
Ignoring Dennstedt's fanciful rendition, it is most likely that the daughter
who married James Horton was born in the late 1650s to early 1660s. The
data on Thomas indicates that he was likely born in the 1650s. Philemon I
only had 1 tithable in 1679 [recall Thomas was listed as a head of household
beside Philemon I], so Abraham had to be under 16 making his birth no sooner
than 1673. Since Philemon I gave Thomas and Abraham land in 1698 and waited
until 1703 to give Philemon II land, it is reasonable to assume that
Philemon II became 21 between these two dates. This would make his birth
date in the late 1670s to early 1680s [but before May 15, 1681, when Griffin
Evans made his will].
I think Philemon I had more than one wife. The children by his first wife
were likely Thomas, the daughter who married James Horton, and Sarah, who
married Nicholas Perkins [this needs more discussion which I will save for
later]. As to the mother of Abraham, I think this must be left as an open
question. The children by Mary Evans were likely Mary and Philemon II.
There is also this other item to be considered from Dennstedt:
Philemon married Mary __. It has been suggested that she was Mary Howard,
daughter of John Howard. The only John Howard located in the records died
before 1 Dec. 1684 leaving a nuncupative will. He wishes Philemon to take
care of his estate and children. On 1 April 1685 Philemon received letters
to administer and make an inventory.3 On 20 Aug. 1685 Philemon appeared at
the Orphans Court and entered the ages of John Howard's orphans; John was 11
years old last April and Thomas was 10 years old last March. {Pauline Pearce
Warner, Henrico County Virginia, orphans' Court Book 1677- 1739
(Tappahannock, Va., 1963), p. 39} Philemon's wife Mary could have been John
Howard's sister. Both Philemon and John Howard named a son Thomas.
I think Dennstedt is likely wrong when she used the name Mary Howard. The
1687 deposition given by Mary, wife of Philemon [Henrico Co., Va., Record
Bk. 1677-92, p. 423. -- from Dennstedt] and Dennstedt's rendition of
Philemon I's life led her to likely believe that Philemon I only had the one
wife. The Mary of the 1687 depostion was likely Mary Evans. This leaves
the Howard woman who Dennstedt says could have been John Howard's daughter
or sister unnamed. It may well be the case that Philemon I did indeed marry
a Howard, and she may have been his first wife. There are many who claim
that the wife of Abraham I was also a Howard. If both of these are true
then the connection between Philemon I and Abraham II and his children bould
be both by blood and marriage.
Here in summary is what I'm suggesting
Philemon I
m. _____ Howard
Children: Thomas, wife of James Horton, and Sarah [posited], wife of
Nicholas Perkins
m. ?
Children: Abraham
m. Mary Evans
Children: Mary and Philemon II
In any case, I think Thomas and Philemon II were half brothers.
Green Ayres
>From: "Lee A. Rau" <leerau(a)comcast.net>
>Reply-To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com
>To: <childress-research(a)rootsweb.com>
>Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] William Childers/ress h/o Elizabeth Hobson
>Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:15:09 -0400
>
>MaryJean,
>
> What I have is that Thomas who married Elizabeth Hatcher and William
>who married Elizabeth Hobson were first cousins. Both, according to my
>sources, were grandsons of Philemon and Mary (Evans) Childers.
>
>
>Lee
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: childress-research-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
>[mailto:childress-research-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of
>MJCV25(a)aol.com
>Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:14 PM
>To: childress-research(a)rootsweb.com; CHILDRESS-RESEARCH(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] William Childers/ress h/o Elizabeth Hobson
>
>
>
>
>Lee,
>
>I have not found my large file (Hatcher-Hobson-Childress) on what we had
>discussed regarding Thomas, father of Thomas (1756 Will). You are solid on
>Philemon as father of Thomas, with a son William who married Elizabeth
>Hatcher? So
>you believe that William who married Elizabeth Hobson was brother to my
>Thomas
>who married Elizabeth Hatcher? Just making sure!
>
>As you know, the 1733 William Hobson, Sr. will (Henrico) was badly torn and
>very faded, I have a copy of the original from George Hobson. It seems to
>have
>two other blank spaces where other grandchildren would have been. We also
>know that the two sons (that we are sure of) were bound out to the church,
>if
>you recall? Cindy Childrey found the reference, it should be in the
>Childress
>Research archives. Anyway, thank you for giving your opinion on this! I
>believe this branch is very difficult, as the Philemons all run together.
>
>MaryJean
>
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
>the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
>the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
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Lee,
I have not found my large file (Hatcher-Hobson-Childress) on what we had
discussed regarding Thomas, father of Thomas (1756 Will). You are solid on
Philemon as father of Thomas, with a son William who married Elizabeth Hatcher? So
you believe that William who married Elizabeth Hobson was brother to my Thomas
who married Elizabeth Hatcher? Just making sure!
As you know, the 1733 William Hobson, Sr. will (Henrico) was badly torn and
very faded, I have a copy of the original from George Hobson. It seems to have
two other blank spaces where other grandchildren would have been. We also
know that the two sons (that we are sure of) were bound out to the church, if
you recall? Cindy Childrey found the reference, it should be in the Childress
Research archives. Anyway, thank you for giving your opinion on this! I
believe this branch is very difficult, as the Philemons all run together.
MaryJean