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Green,
Re: The name PHILLIP -
See below - "Cumberland Co., VA, Draughting Soldiers" - Naming a Philemon
Childres and a Phillip Childres - 1756 - If they were about 18 years old, we can
figure their birth date as about 1738 or earlier. This is not during the late
1600's as we were discussing, but, since there are two here, one named
Phillip AND Philemon, thought this might be of interest. One named Phillip
Childress, wrote his will 56 years later in 1812 Goochland Co., VA. Book 21, page 305
- Sons - Elijah, John and Obediah - Daughters - Jane, Elizabeth, Rebecca,
Sally Highbanks, and Polly Ellis - Grandson - William Ware Ellis. Garland
Childress is a descendant of Phillip, he wrote me (years ago) that Phillip Childress
married Mary Green.
"Cumberland County, VA - Draughting Soldiers" - (Source: Jo Ann Childers,
Editor and Publisher of "Clearinghouse" (previously, "Childress Chatter") - See
Below -
Click here:
http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ifetch2?/u1/textindices/C/CHILDR...
MaryJean
Green,
The ship list by Nugent is a book record. I wasn't explicit in my earlier
message due to a time factor, but I do have them as they appear in the abstract.
I'll be glad to list them, later on tonight. If I recollect correctly (not
exactly sure where I read this), the exact date the patents were issued may be
different then the actual date of when these people were transported? Maybe
someone can enlighten us if this was so or not. I believe Lee Rau and I had
discussed this a while back.
As for the name PHILLIPS Childers/res? - I was reading over the Col. Gracey
Childers papers from the Nashville, TN archives. In those letters pre-1900,
they mentioned an early Phillips Childers. If you would like a copy, I can send
it to you. Other then that, I think there were two named Phillip in several
early records, I'll see if I can find them. I agree, I have no doubt, that
the Christian name of Philemon was spelt in a variety of ways and shortened in
some instances.
Right now, time permitting, I'm working with a fellow researcher on a time
line. We hope this will help with all of the earlier Childers/res. Thanks.
MaryJean
Mary Jean and List,
A quick follow up. Why are you referring to these land patents (which were given in part for transportation) as ship arrivals? Ship arrivals occur at a particular date and place. These land patents clearly had to occur after the fact and possibly occurred in some cases much after the fact. As to the point of who came over first, Philemon or Thomas, there is no actual way to tell from the land patents. Actual ship arrivals would be a different story. So our disagreement on this point is pointless.
Green Ayres
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Mary Jean and List,
I'm going to intersperse my comments within Mary Jean's post.> Nugent ship lists - Arrivals - > > 1665 - - PHILLIPS CHILDERS - (Richard Womack received land) - I believe his > name was Phillip rather then Philemon.
Why do you believe this? Except for the spelling in Richard Womack's land grant there is no other evidence of anyone named Phillip in this time frame. It is more likely a clerk's rendition of what he thought the name was. He may have picked up on just the Phil part and assumed Phillip. Remember he did not get his information first hand. If you read a number of these early patents, and look at the spelling of the various names, the only logical conclusion one can come to is, don't get hung up on the spelling of individual names. I do not think that you can discount this being Philemon. I think it is he and he was the first show up in patents for being transported and not Thomas.> > 1667 - - THOMAS CHILDRES - ( I would say he's the first)
Who transported him? I think we need full detail on all of these.> > 1673 - - PHILEMON CHILDERS - (John Maies (Mayes) received land for > transporting.)> > 1674 - - THOMAS CHILDERS (transported by Wm Hatcher).
The 1679 Henrico County list cannot be ignored in dealing with these names. Besides Abraham there was exactly one Philemon and Thomas listed adjacent to each other (Thomas without the surname listed). Since there are two possibilities as to why they each appeared in more than one patent (they were claimed twice or they returned to England and the second listing is the return -- which did occur), the simplest explanation is that one of these is the case. I think the more serious issue is whether it is father and son or brothers as claimed (but unsubstantiated) in the lineage that Kay recently posted for us. See that post and my response.
> > NO date - THOMAS CHILDREY (along with 70 others transported) -
I've seen this claim on I think a Gary post on the Childress List as being around a 1704 land patent -- but have been unable to locate it. Without more details I consider it suspect data. One thing we need to do is get full details on these land grants rather than depend on a secondary source.
> > As for Thomas who married Elizabeth Hatcher? I am not sure whose son he was. > Most assume he was the son of Thomas who left the 1734 will, I am not > convinced at this point. There were other Thomas'es in early VA, especially if you > look at the ship list dates, which could be off by a few years due to the land > patent dates. IF Thomas was the son of Philemon, the dates are off, since > there is an arrival of a THOMAS CHILDRES in 1667. Robert King received 500 > acres, Strafford Co, VA 15 April 1667, for transporting 10 persons. By the time > of the patent, THOMAS CHILDRES could have arrived much earlier then 1667 and > that, I believe would apply to the rest of those listed. Some strongly believe > that an early Thomas was the son of Abraham? I have no solid proof at this > point.
I agree that there is a serious problem in Dennstedt's rendition here and it was caused primarily by her need to make it all fit in her model of "everyone was descended from Abraham I". Put that aside. Let's deal with the data.
> > The earliest known, by any named Childers/res or variant in Henrico was > Abraham Childres who bought land in 1656 from William Harris. His son was Abraham, > due to the 1681 land sale to John Pleasants, in which Abraham's wife was > named Anne who he had married. Abraham left the 1693 Henrico will naming Anne his > wife - Sons: Abraham - Henry - Phillimon - John - Robert. We don't know if > he had more sons and or daughters before the writing of the will who may have > been deceased by the writing of the will in Henrico, 1683. > After such a good start in your previous post on the deed from William Harris to Abraham I and from Abraham II to John Pleasants why change styles? The link between the two deeds is John Pleasant's will which cleary indicates Abraham II as having inherited the land from Abraham I. The will of Abraham II establishes his sons Abraham, Philemon, John and Robert. These 3 generations of Abraham I's lineage is solid up to this point. The big qu!
estion is Philemon's lineage and where Thomas (also transported as listed in land patents) fits in. As I have pointed out the gift from Philemon to Abraham II's children show that Philemon is related to this line as a cousin.
Green Ayres
> From: MJCV25(a)aol.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 19:53:53 -0400> Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] Unidentified subject! - Thomas Childress> To: CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-L(a)rootsweb.com> > > > Green,> > Re: Thomas Childress - Son of Philemon?> > While I read all of the Dennstedt series, I did not agree with her on some of > her conclusions. I have to wonder if she had access to those on the > surviving ship lists?> > Dennstedt wrote that the Christian name of Thomas first appeared in the > Henrico Tithe for 1679, along with Philemon, correct? She wrote that Thomas born > 1671 and died 1735 was the son of Philemon b.1655 died 1698. The below ship > list would suggest otherwise, as a Thomas Childres is shown to have arrived 1667 > and it could have been earlier then the land patent which was given to Robert > King for transportation. > > Nugent ship lists - Arrivals - > > 1665 - - PHILLIPS CHILDERS - (Richard Womack received land) - I believe his > name was Phillip rather then Philemon.> >!
1667 - - THOMAS CHILDRES - ( I would say he's the first)> > 1673 - - PHILEMON CHILDERS - (John Maies (Mayes) received land for > transporting.)> > 1674 - - THOMAS CHILDERS (transported by Wm Hatcher).> > NO date - THOMAS CHILDREY (along with 70 others transported) - > > As for Thomas who married Elizabeth Hatcher? I am not sure whose son he was. > Most assume he was the son of Thomas who left the 1734 will, I am not > convinced at this point. There were other Thomas'es in early VA, especially if you > look at the ship list dates, which could be off by a few years due to the land > patent dates. IF Thomas was the son of Philemon, the dates are off, since > there is an arrival of a THOMAS CHILDRES in 1667. Robert King received 500 > acres, Strafford Co, VA 15 April 1667, for transporting 10 persons. By the time > of the patent, THOMAS CHILDRES could have arrived much earlier then 1667 and > that, I believe would apply to the rest of those listed. Some strongly believe !
> that an early Thomas was the son of Abraham? I have no solid proof at this > point.> > The earliest known, by any named Childers/res or variant in Henrico was > Abraham Childres who bought land in 1656 from William Harris. His son was Abraham, > due to the 1681 land sale to John Pleasants, in which Abraham's wife was > named Anne who he had married. Abraham left the 1693 Henrico will naming Anne his > wife - Sons: Abraham - Henry - Phillimon - John - Robert. We don't know if > he had more sons and or daughters before the writing of the will who may have > been deceased by the writing of the will in Henrico, 1683. > > > MaryJean>
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Green,
Re: Thomas Childress - Son of Philemon?
While I read all of the Dennstedt series, I did not agree with her on some of
her conclusions. I have to wonder if she had access to those on the
surviving ship lists?
Dennstedt wrote that the Christian name of Thomas first appeared in the
Henrico Tithe for 1679, along with Philemon, correct? She wrote that Thomas born
1671 and died 1735 was the son of Philemon b.1655 died 1698. The below ship
list would suggest otherwise, as a Thomas Childres is shown to have arrived 1667
and it could have been earlier then the land patent which was given to Robert
King for transportation.
Nugent ship lists - Arrivals -
1665 - - PHILLIPS CHILDERS - (Richard Womack received land) - I believe his
name was Phillip rather then Philemon.
1667 - - THOMAS CHILDRES - ( I would say he's the first)
1673 - - PHILEMON CHILDERS - (John Maies (Mayes) received land for
transporting.)
1674 - - THOMAS CHILDERS (transported by Wm Hatcher).
NO date - THOMAS CHILDREY (along with 70 others transported) -
As for Thomas who married Elizabeth Hatcher? I am not sure whose son he was.
Most assume he was the son of Thomas who left the 1734 will, I am not
convinced at this point. There were other Thomas'es in early VA, especially if you
look at the ship list dates, which could be off by a few years due to the land
patent dates. IF Thomas was the son of Philemon, the dates are off, since
there is an arrival of a THOMAS CHILDRES in 1667. Robert King received 500
acres, Strafford Co, VA 15 April 1667, for transporting 10 persons. By the time
of the patent, THOMAS CHILDRES could have arrived much earlier then 1667 and
that, I believe would apply to the rest of those listed. Some strongly believe
that an early Thomas was the son of Abraham? I have no solid proof at this
point.
The earliest known, by any named Childers/res or variant in Henrico was
Abraham Childres who bought land in 1656 from William Harris. His son was Abraham,
due to the 1681 land sale to John Pleasants, in which Abraham's wife was
named Anne who he had married. Abraham left the 1693 Henrico will naming Anne his
wife - Sons: Abraham - Henry - Phillimon - John - Robert. We don't know if
he had more sons and or daughters before the writing of the will who may have
been deceased by the writing of the will in Henrico, 1683.
MaryJean
Mary Jean and List,
This is very good and the kind of response I've been hoping for. Thanks Mary Jean. Keep it coming.
Green Ayres
> From: MJCV25(a)aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 16:15:25 -0400> Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] Unidentified subject! - Abraham - MJCV> To: CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-L(a)rootsweb.com> > > > Green - > List - > > Green, I'm going to start with your last comment - That this could be a fairy > tale and or myth - to make everyone descend from Abraham, the Emigrant? > > Lets start with the Christian name ABRAHAM - And what I have which would show > the EARLIEST date (America) for the name Abraham, from any surviving copy of > an original document that I am aware of - Then you'all can decide for > yourselves if we our earliest ancestor was ABRAHAM - > > > 1) I have no book record for a ship arrival for anyone named ABRAHAM with > any variant spelling.> > > 2) DEED - ABRAH CHILDRES, February 28, 1656 - Between WILLIAM HARRIS of > CURLES in the county of HENRICO CO, VA - (typed exactly from original copy) - > > IN consideration of one bill to be truly and honestly payed according to the > tenons t!
hereof freely clearly and absolutely bargain sell and have by these > presents clearly freely and absolutely bargained and sold unto ABRAH CHILDRES of > CURLES in the County aforesaid, the parcell of land he NOW LIVES ON, > beginning at a pine tree a little above the houses of said CHILDRES and standing by > the river and on the lower side of MORGAN's LANDING and soe running downe the > river to the swamp at the OLD GARDEN and thence into MORGAN's along the maine > side to the nutt trees and from thence along the side of the SWAMPE and MEADOW > side to an Oake tree as one goes into the meadow, etc., to a parcell of oakes > standing in the ridge above the place called the 18 lengths of bords and from > thence to former on a straight line: TO HAVE and TO HOLD the aforsaid land to > HIM the aforesaid CHILDRES his HEIRS and ASSIGNES forever without any > hinderance trouble or molestation of the said HARRIS my HEIRS and assignes forever or > any of us, either by MINE or THEIRS a!
ssent consent of procurement, AND I doe > bind ME and my assignes to make surrender hereof in COURTE as wittness my hand > and seale this 28th of February 1656. Signed, sealed and delivered in the > presence of JOHN EPPS, WILLIAM HARRIS (red wax) - > > MEMORANDUM: That it was agreed before the signing hereof that Ja. ROBINSON > enjoy his parte of the lease as formerly and satisfied to Wm. HARRIS his parte > of the Rent as usuall. Wittnesses my hand this 2nd day of MARCH 1656. Teste: > JOHN EPES, THO LIGGON, Recordant. H. DAVIS, dep c.c. - The mark of - Ab T. > CHILDRES. (the T is in the center as the mark of Abraham (Abrah) CHILDRES.> > NEXT - > > > 3) DEED of ABRAHAM CHILDRES, son of ABRAH CHILDRES, Tenth day of FEBRUARY > 1680/81 - > > Know these presents that I ABRAHAM CHILDRES, soone and heir of ABRAHAM > CHILDRES dec'd for and in consideration of a tract of land of JNO PLESANTS being > five hundred and forty eight acres lying and being in the Forke of FOURE MILL > !
CREEKE (part) as a patent will more fully appeare remitt release and forever > quitt claimed any right title or interest of this within mentioned land which was > by MY FATHER, purchased of WILLIAM HARRIS and given by his last will and > testament as the said will may appeare. And doe by these presents for me, my HEIRS > of adms. forever assigns all rights title and interest of the said land > within represented unto the said JNO. PLEASANTS his heirs and assigns forever to > have and to hold the said piece and parcell of land in as full and ample manner > to all intents and purposes as I myselfe and my heirs might or could doe or > hereafter may doe by virtue of this BILL of SALE and my FATHERS WILL or by any > other way or meanes whosoever I have hereunto sett my hand and seale this TENTH > DAY OF FEBRUARY 1680/1. Signed ABRAHAM CHILDRES, Testes: JOHN HUDDLESEE, > BART B. (his mark), Test. H. DAVID, dep cleark.> > I ANNE wife of the said ABRAH doe hereby acknowledge to r!
elinquish my right > of dower to ye said land in this conveyance mentioned witness my hand this 1st > DECEMBER 1681, ANNE CHILDRES.> > > NOTE: This is the first ABRAHAM or ABRAH CHILDRES from an original copy of > the deed of WILLIAM HARRIS and ABRAH CHILDRESS 1656 and then we have his SON, > ABRAHAM CHILDRES and his WIFE ANNE CHILDRES. Theres no doubt this ABRAHAM is > the son of ABRAH CHILDRES in the 1656 deed of WILLIAM HARRIS. This is > perfectly clear. ABRAHAM CHILDRES is the son and heir of ABRAH CHILDRES who was alive > in 1656 Henrico. ABRAHAM the son had a wife named ANNE. The time between > the 1656 WILLIAM HARRIS deed to the next declaration, is 25 years.> > It would appear the earliest and only surviving record we have would be the > 1656 Deed between Wm HARRIS and ABRAH CHILDRES and we know he had a son named > ABRAHAM CHILDRES with a wife named ANNE in 1681.> > The other's you mentioned in your message do not appear in any surviving > record I have seen E!
ARLIER then the 1656 deed above. Unless someone has found an > earlier record then 1656, I don't know of it. I think a time line needs to be > done. I would suggest beginning with the earliest surviving deed of 1656 and > the ship records, those have NO Abrah's or Abrahams. > > The ship lists do have PHILEMON, LEMON, THOMAS and PHILLIP(s) with all the > surname variants. I have the names from the ship list and wills, some deeds. > 1665 is the first with any name resembling PHILEMON and it was shown as > PHILLIPS CHILDERS, being transported October 20, 1665. Between the ABRAH CHILDRES > deed with Wm HARRIS of 1656, and a PHILLIPS CHILDERS being transported is just 9 > years. Because we only have the one deed of 1656, it certainly suggests that > ABRAH CHILDRES was the first to arrive, that we have ANY record of in America.> > MaryJean>
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Original message from "Mark and Gary" <london2005(a)Charter.net <http://by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=00000000-00...>>:
--------------
> Mark suffered a massive heart attack while driving home from the office.
> He called me on his cell phone and we talked for several minutes, he
> vomiting and breathless. Paramedics were on the scene almost immediately
> but were unable to do anything. He died in front of me and the image of
> his final breathe will haunt me forever. I wish I could erase its
> excruciatingly painful injustice of death from my mind. His final words
> were "I love you and Mom" and his face went morbid.
>
> To say that he was greatly loved by those of us who knew him is an
> understatement. He was a brilliant and gentle, unique, irreplaceable man
> and his death has ripped the guts out of those who knew him. His loss
> is devastating here. I can't yet fathom the impact. I am numb to my
> bones. His death has consumed our family. He was a young man just 59
> and had many projects left unfinished. He had a prodigious photographic
> memory and I stood in awe of his intellect all my life. His loss will
> ripple through everything he touched.
>
> I am dwarfed and intimidated at the prospect to now even attempt to
> assemble his life's genealogy research and salvage what I can of his
> collection of unpublished works on genealogy. I use to joke that he was
> going to take his understanding of Childress genealogy to his grave with
> him, which he now has. He said it would take decades for him write down
> his research in the detail required but that was game to try. So he set
> about writing chapters with immaculate footnoting. He has left behind
> mounds of original source material collected by his hired professional
> researchers and himself in his travels and his multiple writing
> campaigns to archivists. His laborious transcriptions of period
> courthouse records must he unequaled by anyone before him. His complex
> charts of early Childress/Childers lineages make even my eyes glaze
> over. His verbal skills and immense understanding of what he read meant
> that he didn't suffer fools and didn't like the internet because of its
> anonymity for dregs of bizarre personalities and its ignorant postings
> of pretenders. I encouraged him to write for those yet to follow, yet
> to be born, that would be like himself.
>
> Many nights we had long discussions on genealogy or other far ranging
> subjects and his knowledge went everywhere.law, medicine and science.
> His research and management of the medical ordeals of our 90 year old
> mother, kept her alive to win an unwinnable battle when doctor's
> literally quit and walked out. It was a cutting edge, tenacious, high
> tech, low tech, cobbled together medical battle that was a tour de force
> to behold. He applied his intellect to genealogy and could quote
> hundreds if not thousands of arcane texts from memory and explain their
> inter-relationship to me. Though I would pretend to nod knowingly, I
> struggled to retain even the basic structure of his comprehensive jig
> saw puzzle. He used to call me his editor. But I have failed him and
> others in my ability to preserve his efforts. Now I have lost his
> genius and I know I can never in my lifetime match or do justice to him
> or to his work. I will never be able to pay enough homage to the
> respect I had for his existence. I have lost my best friend and
> confident. I tried to associate myself with him, and encourage him to
> write and record his ground breaking insights and use his abilities, and
> only I comprehend my defeat to capture his renaissance mind. It will be
> years, if ever, before I again try to sort through his paper work. I
> have yet to go to his office and pick up his library of material. I
> should, but not now and maybe not ever. I am not up the task and may
> never be, though I know some of his research would be a Rosetta stone.
> Mark's application of his years of formal education has forever taught
> me that if you are thorough and dedicated to detail and intellectualism,
> you can make sense of chaos and in genealogy yet salvage the
> relationships of your ancestors. I regret that I witnessed so much about
> which I can no longer ask questions. We all lost a treasure.
> Gary
Green -
List -
Green, I'm going to start with your last comment - That this could be a fairy
tale and or myth - to make everyone descend from Abraham, the Emigrant?
Lets start with the Christian name ABRAHAM - And what I have which would show
the EARLIEST date (America) for the name Abraham, from any surviving copy of
an original document that I am aware of - Then you'all can decide for
yourselves if we our earliest ancestor was ABRAHAM -
1) I have no book record for a ship arrival for anyone named ABRAHAM with
any variant spelling.
2) DEED - ABRAH CHILDRES, February 28, 1656 - Between WILLIAM HARRIS of
CURLES in the county of HENRICO CO, VA - (typed exactly from original copy) -
IN consideration of one bill to be truly and honestly payed according to the
tenons thereof freely clearly and absolutely bargain sell and have by these
presents clearly freely and absolutely bargained and sold unto ABRAH CHILDRES of
CURLES in the County aforesaid, the parcell of land he NOW LIVES ON,
beginning at a pine tree a little above the houses of said CHILDRES and standing by
the river and on the lower side of MORGAN's LANDING and soe running downe the
river to the swamp at the OLD GARDEN and thence into MORGAN's along the maine
side to the nutt trees and from thence along the side of the SWAMPE and MEADOW
side to an Oake tree as one goes into the meadow, etc., to a parcell of oakes
standing in the ridge above the place called the 18 lengths of bords and from
thence to former on a straight line: TO HAVE and TO HOLD the aforsaid land to
HIM the aforesaid CHILDRES his HEIRS and ASSIGNES forever without any
hinderance trouble or molestation of the said HARRIS my HEIRS and assignes forever or
any of us, either by MINE or THEIRS assent consent of procurement, AND I doe
bind ME and my assignes to make surrender hereof in COURTE as wittness my hand
and seale this 28th of February 1656. Signed, sealed and delivered in the
presence of JOHN EPPS, WILLIAM HARRIS (red wax) -
MEMORANDUM: That it was agreed before the signing hereof that Ja. ROBINSON
enjoy his parte of the lease as formerly and satisfied to Wm. HARRIS his parte
of the Rent as usuall. Wittnesses my hand this 2nd day of MARCH 1656. Teste:
JOHN EPES, THO LIGGON, Recordant. H. DAVIS, dep c.c. - The mark of - Ab T.
CHILDRES. (the T is in the center as the mark of Abraham (Abrah) CHILDRES.
NEXT -
3) DEED of ABRAHAM CHILDRES, son of ABRAH CHILDRES, Tenth day of FEBRUARY
1680/81 -
Know these presents that I ABRAHAM CHILDRES, soone and heir of ABRAHAM
CHILDRES dec'd for and in consideration of a tract of land of JNO PLESANTS being
five hundred and forty eight acres lying and being in the Forke of FOURE MILL
CREEKE (part) as a patent will more fully appeare remitt release and forever
quitt claimed any right title or interest of this within mentioned land which was
by MY FATHER, purchased of WILLIAM HARRIS and given by his last will and
testament as the said will may appeare. And doe by these presents for me, my HEIRS
of adms. forever assigns all rights title and interest of the said land
within represented unto the said JNO. PLEASANTS his heirs and assigns forever to
have and to hold the said piece and parcell of land in as full and ample manner
to all intents and purposes as I myselfe and my heirs might or could doe or
hereafter may doe by virtue of this BILL of SALE and my FATHERS WILL or by any
other way or meanes whosoever I have hereunto sett my hand and seale this TENTH
DAY OF FEBRUARY 1680/1. Signed ABRAHAM CHILDRES, Testes: JOHN HUDDLESEE,
BART B. (his mark), Test. H. DAVID, dep cleark.
I ANNE wife of the said ABRAH doe hereby acknowledge to relinquish my right
of dower to ye said land in this conveyance mentioned witness my hand this 1st
DECEMBER 1681, ANNE CHILDRES.
NOTE: This is the first ABRAHAM or ABRAH CHILDRES from an original copy of
the deed of WILLIAM HARRIS and ABRAH CHILDRESS 1656 and then we have his SON,
ABRAHAM CHILDRES and his WIFE ANNE CHILDRES. Theres no doubt this ABRAHAM is
the son of ABRAH CHILDRES in the 1656 deed of WILLIAM HARRIS. This is
perfectly clear. ABRAHAM CHILDRES is the son and heir of ABRAH CHILDRES who was alive
in 1656 Henrico. ABRAHAM the son had a wife named ANNE. The time between
the 1656 WILLIAM HARRIS deed to the next declaration, is 25 years.
It would appear the earliest and only surviving record we have would be the
1656 Deed between Wm HARRIS and ABRAH CHILDRES and we know he had a son named
ABRAHAM CHILDRES with a wife named ANNE in 1681.
The other's you mentioned in your message do not appear in any surviving
record I have seen EARLIER then the 1656 deed above. Unless someone has found an
earlier record then 1656, I don't know of it. I think a time line needs to be
done. I would suggest beginning with the earliest surviving deed of 1656 and
the ship records, those have NO Abrah's or Abrahams.
The ship lists do have PHILEMON, LEMON, THOMAS and PHILLIP(s) with all the
surname variants. I have the names from the ship list and wills, some deeds.
1665 is the first with any name resembling PHILEMON and it was shown as
PHILLIPS CHILDERS, being transported October 20, 1665. Between the ABRAH CHILDRES
deed with Wm HARRIS of 1656, and a PHILLIPS CHILDERS being transported is just 9
years. Because we only have the one deed of 1656, it certainly suggests that
ABRAH CHILDRES was the first to arrive, that we have ANY record of in America.
MaryJean
Steve,
I certainly understood what you meant:) Speaking for me only, when I first
began to research the Childers / Childress families, there were many book
records and also original records, but I didn't know much at all about my own
Childress family, other then they had lived in Virginia and then KY.
I had no computer (1975) and so, I went to the Georgia Archives in Atlanta.
I took five legal pads and every Childers / Childress in the Virginia census,
tax, land, whatever, I copied, by hand. Then I came across "Childress
Chatter," the newsletter, published by Molly Reigard. I had to go back to the
archives just so I could read them. It seemed like I copied them for days. I then
subscribed to it and wrote everyone who had published data in the Chatter and I
also joined CFA.
It seemed, that everyone I corresponded with, either by phone or snail mail,
followed one line of thought, that of Abraham, Philemon and Thomas, arriving
first in America. This includes, Molly Reigard, Garland Childress, Virginia
Hanks, Molly Reigard, Geneve Childress Stephenson (dbl Childress), Mr. Jones and
many other's who had spent countless hours preparing their papers and
conclusions, some even went to England to do research, this was also published in
"Childress Chatter." Later, Jo Ann Childers and her husband, published
"Clearinghouse" - Also, books on the pensions (Rev. War), Will / Deed / Immigrants, TN
Census, birth, etc. These have proved to be very good sources for me.
I believe the ship lists are important. Those are on the CFA website I
believe. I have the list if anyone wants it. Naturally, this is a book record -
"Cavaliers and Pioneers" - Nell Marion Nugent and one from, "The Genealogist
Post" - Most seasoned researchers for the Childers / Childress families have
used this source as their guide.
As for the surviving Childers - Childress wills and inventories? I've relied
on those published in the will book I own, because they have the original
document included, unless it was moth eaten and or destroyed, some were. I can
safely say, we can use this as documentation, because we can read the wills and
inventories ourselves and make our own assumption and interpretation. Even
in the will book, the index may have Childers when the original copy in the
same book has CHILDRES or Childrefs!
For instance Steve, early abstract deeds? I've seen the book record and then
seen the deeds, sometimes, they say something entirely different. As for
letters and old notes? I think we can use these as a very small part of our
research, but if we base our conclusion entirely on old letters, where someone's
memories have faded or have even been true to their source, but their source
didn't REALLY know the truth, then we're in a heap of trouble! I really believe
that sometimes, the actual events in a family are so private, they
manufacture a family tradition to hide what they don't want to be known.
Regarding old letters - a good for instance, would be the papers of Lyon and
John Childress, brothers. I published those letters to this list. They
contradict one another in who Joel Childress descended from. We have to be very
careful of letters and even tombstones. I've surveyed old cemeteries for
"Ancestors Unlimited," (GA) and I can tell you, many tombstones were replaced and
names even spelt differently from what it really was.
Original Bible records are a good source to. Then, when we have these
sources, contrary to what someone (earlier) has given as the God's truth, we have to
look at it ourselves with an open mind and judge the material to be factual
or not. Common sense and logic, it's about the only way, because records of
the Childers and Childress have been all mixed up and there is some published
data on the Internet which is very confused, mixing so many different families
history because of their having the same Christian name!
The DNA project is fantastic, but then again, we have to trust the people in
charge of the DNA project. I think Patrick Childress has been the most
helpful in this regard and I value his opinion on the Childers and Childress DNA.
What we can do for this list, is to post what we have personally seen
ourselves. Such as you suggest. Census, deeds, ship lists, wills, signatures,
whatever, as in original and or original copies.
I think to, we can look at the data and try to give a logical opinion, based
on these sources, as to how it would appear to be, from what we have. This
has worked for me in the past. However, I can say, the Childers - Childress
ancestry has been by far, the most complicated, because of all the confused
histories online and in even in book records, especially from those who are not
Childers or Childress. We have access now, to the original copies of census and
tax records, even online! A good example are the Childers and Childress in
Henrico Co., VA. Some have said they were ALL named "Childers". If that's so,
then why are the next generation down from these "Childers" named "Childrefs"
in Henrico? I also posted this information to the list. Some of the early
Henrico wills have "Childers" and then the children are named "Childrefs" in the
original tax and census!
Ok, I'll be quiet now! Thanks for all the hard work, in researching and
publishing the grant info! I have three original patents for Childress - Childers
and I'll give that information soon. Feel free to ask me if I have certain
info and I'll be glad to see if I have it. I do think we need to give our
ancestry. It can be very simply done, as in, 1. 2. 3. we don't have to elaborate!
Just give an idea of which bunch of Childers or Childress or both:) that we
descend from.
MaryJean
Before I get thoroughly horse whipped, I must apologize for my previous post
about information not being on the CFA website. I re-read what I had sent
to the list and it took on a completely different meaning than I had
intended.
The CFA website does contain a great deal of this data. What I should have
said was that it needed to be presented in a more orderly fashion. Right
now all this excellent data is lumped in together with genealogies, land
ownership, chronological history, etc. People like Virginia Hanks have done
a excellent job presenting the data, now let's sort it out make it easier to
find.
I apologize if I ruffled any feathers. It was not intended I assure you.
Regards,
Steve
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Green,
2) Which Philemon, which two land grants was he referred to, that you are
referring to for Philemon?
A Philimon, Philemon or Lemon is mentioned in each of the below Patents
(which I sent to the list) :
Lemon Childres, Patent, Grindons Run, Varina Parish, Henrico County, 20 Apr
1685
Robert Woodson, Sr., John Woodson Sr., William Lewis, Thomas Charles,
Patent, Deep Run, James River, Varina Parish, Henrico County, 21 Oct 1687
John Pleasants, Patent, Varina Parish, Henrico County, 23 Oct 1690
Philimon Childers, Jr., Patent, Grindals Run, James River, Henrico County 31
Oct 1716
Philemon Childers, Jr., Patent, Deep Creek, James River, Cumberland County,
20 Sep 1751
Thomas Lewis, Patent, James River, Henrico County, 16 Aug 1756
Thomas Lewis, Patent, Watery Branch, Henrico County, 5 Feb 1757
John Woodson, Patent, Burtons Brook, Cumberland County, 19 Apr 1757
I have an idea. It may not be a good one, but it will stop the bashing of
old theories and present to the list factual data which they can sort out to
suit themselves. Let's do this:
1) Post a list of land grants (Done) (If anyone has copies of any other land
transaction involving Child????? please post)
2) Marriage Bonds
3) Birth certificates, lists, Bible records or whatever pertaining to birth
4) Death Records or same as above
5) Census Records
6) Court cases
7) Anything else I failed to list in someone's possession or Court House,
etc.
ALL MUST BE COPIES AND VERIFIABLE!!! No this person said or wrote! Must be
first hand, public record or the user must be able to read it and interpret
for themselves.
I think the place for this projects data should be the CFA. Actually, I
don't know why it isn't already there along with the "trilogies."
Anybody up for the task or do you want to keep bashing this stuff around?
True bashing is more fun, but setting up a complete library is more
beneficial to all.
Regards,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Green Ayres [mailto:greenayres@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 7:29 PM
To: CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-L(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [CHILDRESS] Unidentified subject!
Dear List,
So far I appear only to be getting negative responses from what I have had
to say about Philemon. Here is my challenge to you. I want someone to
explain to the list the followiing:
1) From Dennstedt "by a deed of gift of 20 Aug. 1686 whereby Philemon
Childers gave for "good love and affeccon wch I bear unto my cosens,
Abraham, Henry and Robert sons of Abraham Childers" a young sorrel mare
about three years of age. " [Henrico Co., Va., Record Bk. 1677-92, p. 382]
He says the sons of Abraham II are his cousins. They cannot be first
cousins, but they can be first cousins one generation removed if Philemon
and Abraham II are first cousins, or they can be first cousins two
generations removed if Philemon and Abraham I are first cousins. Had
Philemon meant that they were his nephews he would have said so.
2) A Philemon is listed on two land grants, a fact that Dennstedt did not
mention. If this is not the Philemon we are talking about who was this
Philemon? If it is the Philemon we are talking about then why is he listed?
3) According to Dennstedt "Thomas Childers' children (by which wife not
established) were:
+ 1. Thomas, married Elizabeth Hatcher." Thomas Jr. by this account is
grandson of Philemon. According to Nel Hatcher's site
http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=wmhatch
1&id=I5383
# ID: I5383
# Name: Elizabeth Hatcher
# Given Name: Elizabeth
# Surname: Hatcher
# Sex: F
# Change Date: 12 Jun 2006
# Birth: ABT 1680 in HenricoCo, VA
# Death: 1756 in HenricoCo, VA
Father: Benjamin Hatcher b: ABT 1644 in HenricoCo, VA
Mother: Elizabeth Greenhaugh b: in VA
Marriage 1 Thomas Childress b: 1682 in HenricoCo, VA
This one is for Mary Jean, since she is listed the contact person for this
Thomas Childress. Did Philemon (according to Dennstedt et al born after
1655) really have a grandson born in 1682?
4) Philemon and Thomas are both listed on the 1679 titheable list for
Henrico County which I have discussed in another post. Is this Thomas his
son? According to the Dennstedt model he must be. Moreover, from Dennstedt
we have
II. PHILEMON CHILDERS
(ca. 1655-1698)
In examining the existing records still viewable for Henrico County
concerning. Philemon Childers, nick-named Lemon, you find an interesting
person. He was uneducated, married at a very tender age, more or less a
child bridegroom. gave gifts to nephews, grandchildren and sons and was a
respected friend. To prove his birth year one must first consider the
acknowledment Lemon Childers made in "open Court" on 2 Oct. 1682. He gave to
his grandson James Horton, Jr., two sows, one cow named Flower, and a calf.
These animals were then in the possession of the grandson's father, James
Horton, Sr. When the child became 12 years old his father was to deliver to
him one cow and Calf or one cow with calf of six years and two sows with pig
or pigs by their sides. If the grandson died before 12 years of age the
animal were to return to Philemon.1 On 10 Feb. 1680/1 James Horton had made
a deposition and his age was stated to be about 30 years.2 No further
records of the father or son can be found so the baby must have died. What
was the year of Philemon's birth? His brother Abraham's birth has been
established as 1655 and he was the son and heir of his father. Philemon had
to be his younger twin or born within a year after Abraham, He was then
about 14 years old, which was allowed, when he married in 1669. His first
child must have been the mother of James Horton, Jr., and born ca. 1670. She
then would have been nearly 13 when she had her baby and died, since she was
not mentioned in the acknowledgment.
The children of Philemon and Mary Childers were:
A. Daughter, married ca. 1681/2 James Horton, Sr., and had one son James.
+B. Thomas, married Ist Mary Holmes and 2nd Mary Milner.
B. THOMAS CHILDERS,
(ca. 1671-1735)
Thomas Childers was the first Childers male with the Christian name of
Thomas in Henrico County and he would be known as Thomas, Sr. He married at
least twice, first to Mary Holmes and second to Mary Milner.
Thomas Childers' children (by which wife not established) were:
+ 1. Thomas, married Elizabeth Hatcher.
1. THOMAS CHILDERS, JR.
(ca. 1695-1758)
Thomas Childers, Jr., was not educated like his father and made his mark a
"T". His surname was spelled both Childers and Childrey in the records. He
married Elizabeth Hatcher, daughter of Benjamin Hatcher who made his will 4
April 1727, proved in Oct.. 1728 ...
Can someone (or anyone) make all this add up? Personally, I think it is a
myth -- a fairy tale made up to make everyone be descended from Abraham "
the emigrant". What do the rest of you think?
Green Ayres
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Dear List,
So far I appear only to be getting negative responses from what I have had
to say about Philemon. Here is my challenge to you. I want someone to
explain to the list the followiing:
1) From Dennstedt "by a deed of gift of 20 Aug. 1686 whereby Philemon
Childers gave for "good love and affeccon wch I bear unto my cosens,
Abraham, Henry and Robert sons of Abraham Childers" a young sorrel mare
about three years of age. " [Henrico Co., Va., Record Bk. 1677-92, p. 382]
He says the sons of Abraham II are his cousins. They cannot be first
cousins, but they can be first cousins one generation removed if Philemon
and Abraham II are first cousins, or they can be first cousins two
generations removed if Philemon and Abraham I are first cousins. Had
Philemon meant that they were his nephews he would have said so.
2) A Philemon is listed on two land grants, a fact that Dennstedt did not
mention. If this is not the Philemon we are talking about who was this
Philemon? If it is the Philemon we are talking about then why is he listed?
3) According to Dennstedt "Thomas Childers' children (by which wife not
established) were:
+ 1. Thomas, married Elizabeth Hatcher." Thomas Jr. by this account is
grandson of Philemon. According to Nel Hatcher's site
http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=wmha...
# ID: I5383
# Name: Elizabeth Hatcher
# Given Name: Elizabeth
# Surname: Hatcher
# Sex: F
# Change Date: 12 Jun 2006
# Birth: ABT 1680 in HenricoCo, VA
# Death: 1756 in HenricoCo, VA
Father: Benjamin Hatcher b: ABT 1644 in HenricoCo, VA
Mother: Elizabeth Greenhaugh b: in VA
Marriage 1 Thomas Childress b: 1682 in HenricoCo, VA
This one is for Mary Jean, since she is listed the contact person for this
Thomas Childress. Did Philemon (according to Dennstedt et al born after
1655) really have a grandson born in 1682?
4) Philemon and Thomas are both listed on the 1679 titheable list for
Henrico County which I have discussed in another post. Is this Thomas his
son? According to the Dennstedt model he must be. Moreover, from Dennstedt
we have
II. PHILEMON CHILDERS
(ca. 1655-1698)
In examining the existing records still viewable for Henrico County
concerning. Philemon Childers, nick-named Lemon, you find an interesting
person. He was uneducated, married at a very tender age, more or less a
child bridegroom. gave gifts to nephews, grandchildren and sons and was a
respected friend. To prove his birth year one must first consider the
acknowledment Lemon Childers made in "open Court" on 2 Oct. 1682. He gave to
his grandson James Horton, Jr., two sows, one cow named Flower, and a calf.
These animals were then in the possession of the grandson's father, James
Horton, Sr. When the child became 12 years old his father was to deliver to
him one cow and Calf or one cow with calf of six years and two sows with pig
or pigs by their sides. If the grandson died before 12 years of age the
animal were to return to Philemon.1 On 10 Feb. 1680/1 James Horton had made
a deposition and his age was stated to be about 30 years.2 No further
records of the father or son can be found so the baby must have died. What
was the year of Philemon's birth? His brother Abraham's birth has been
established as 1655 and he was the son and heir of his father. Philemon had
to be his younger twin or born within a year after Abraham, He was then
about 14 years old, which was allowed, when he married in 1669. His first
child must have been the mother of James Horton, Jr., and born ca. 1670. She
then would have been nearly 13 when she had her baby and died, since she was
not mentioned in the acknowledgment.
The children of Philemon and Mary Childers were:
A. Daughter, married ca. 1681/2 James Horton, Sr., and had one son James.
+B. Thomas, married Ist Mary Holmes and 2nd Mary Milner.
B. THOMAS CHILDERS,
(ca. 1671-1735)
Thomas Childers was the first Childers male with the Christian name of
Thomas in Henrico County and he would be known as Thomas, Sr. He married at
least twice, first to Mary Holmes and second to Mary Milner.
Thomas Childers' children (by which wife not established) were:
+ 1. Thomas, married Elizabeth Hatcher.
1. THOMAS CHILDERS, JR.
(ca. 1695-1758)
Thomas Childers, Jr., was not educated like his father and made his mark a
"T". His surname was spelled both Childers and Childrey in the records. He
married Elizabeth Hatcher, daughter of Benjamin Hatcher who made his will 4
April 1727, proved in Oct.. 1728 ...
Can someone (or anyone) make all this add up? Personally, I think it is a
myth -- a fairy tale made up to make everyone be descended from Abraham "
the emigrant". What do the rest of you think?
Green Ayres
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Kay and List,
I've never seen any data with references to go with this part of your
post
>R. Veitschegger, 2072 Quail Run Dr., Bowling Green, Ky 42104 'mail:
>RDVSR(a)aol.com 270 842-4309
>
>CHILDERS family:
>
>? CHILDERS
>5 sons
>1. Hugh CHILDERS
>2. William CHILDERS d 5 Sep 1596
>3. Gregory CHILDERS d 15 Jan 1589
>4. Richard CHILDERS d 29 Aug 1605
>5. Ralph CHILDERS b c1545/50 brd 17 Jul 1592
>
>#5 Ralph CHILDERS b c1545 d 1592
>Ch:
>1. Agnes CHILDERS bapt. 2 Jun 1572 d 14 Jun 1572
>2. Wm. CHILDERS bapt. 2 Jun 1572
>3.. Richard CHILDERS
>4. Sebel CHILDERS bapt 23 Feb 1580 md 5 Apr 1614 @ Leeds, age 34, Wm.
>TENNARD
>
>#5-3 Richard CHILDERS bapt 9 May 1574 d 5 Oct 1619 m ?? Ch:
>1. Agnes CHILDERS brd 27 Apr 1628
>2. Thomas CHILDERS bapt. 9 Mar 1603/4
>3. Richard CHILDERS b 14 Jun 1606 d 12 May 1647/8, or brd 18 Jun 1630
>4. Isabell CHILDERS b 19 Feb 1608
>5. Robert CHILDERS b 3 Apr 1611 d c1665/70 md Mary SEAMAN
>6. ABRAHAM CHILDERS b 30 Nov 1613 Nottingsham Engl. md Ann HOWARD b 1622
>CSF88(a)Columbus.rr.com (Connie Foster)
>7. William CHILDERS b 8 Sep 1616 brd 13 Apr 1621
>
>#5-3-5 Robert CHILDERS b 3 Apr 1611 d c1665/70 md Mary SEAMAN d/o James
>SEAMAN
>Ch:
>1. Robert CHILDERS brd 9 Sep 1642
>2. James CHILDERS b c1635 lived Sussex Co Engl. 1674
>3. PHILOMON CHILDERS b 26 Nov 1637 Went to Charles City Co, VA 27 Oct 1673
>md Mary EVANS
>4. Thomas CHILDERS b 9 Mar 1640 went to America 15 Apr 1667
>5. Philip CHILDERS b c1645 To HenricoCo,VA 26 May 1673
>==================
but what is interesting about it is that it would make Philemon a cousin of
Abraham I, which would then make him a cousin of his grandchildren (which
Philemon acknowledged with his gift to them).
It is also possible that the early Thomas and Philemon were indeed brothers.
I think this in part at least must be considered as one of the hypotheses
to be investigated. I have grave doubts that there was a Philip and a
Philemon in this family. And thanks Kay for bringing this material to our
attention. It is quite relevant.
Green Ayres
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So Green here is something new to discuss. What is your take on this data?
Regards, Benjamin Childress b. ca 1740 at Varina Par, Henrico Co. d. ca Oct
1783
married ca 1761 to Eliza Ann Joplin c1742-aft Oct 1775 d/o Thomas and Hannah
(Freeman) Joplin.
Benjamin son of John Childress and Matilda Royall
A number of people have said that Benjamin served in the American
Revolution. I have found no evidence of this.
However I did find where he provided Beef to the American Army during the
Revolution.
Benjamin Childress's will was written in 1775 and recorded at Amherst County
Courthouse. He mentioned only his wife
and his youngest son Royal Childress.
1) Lucy b. 1762 md Andrew Wright
2) Benjamin Childress, Jr. 3 Apr 1764-25 Mar 1857, Esmont
(I've been in his home at Esmont)
3) Samuel Henry Childress b. Nov 1765 d. aft 1822
4) John Thomas Childress b. 11 May 1767 d. 28 Dec 1861 (see below)
5) Virginia Childress b. 5 Sep 1769 married Joseph Colver
6) Royal Childress b. 14 Mar 1773 d. 21 Apr 1859, Adair Co., KY
married Elizabeth Cowerd then 2nd;y to Rachel Green Settle
12 ch by 1st wife 2 ch by 2nd. All in KY
John Thomas (B) (called Thomas B or John Thomas) b. 11 May 1767, Joplin's
Ford, Rockfish, Amherst Co., VA (now Nelson) d 28 Dec 1961, Clay Forge. prob
buried Tinkling Springs Church. Married 22 Feb 1794 to Nancy Elizabeth
Wiggington
306 663 10/27/1795 Bartholoomew Marran, Amh to Jos. Roberts, Amh, for L 75,
135 Ac. Littleberry Witt ,Wm Harris, Ro. Grant. Wit: Alex Roberts, Thomas
Childress, Jno Shelton.
307 674 2/15/1796 Royal Childress, Amh to Thomas Childress, Amh, L125, 140
Ac. Rockfish. Lines: Josiah Jopling, Matt Harris, Benj Childress. Wit: Ben
Johnson, Samuel Childress, Isaia Atkinson.
323 168 2/11/1797 Thomas Childress and wife Eliz., Amh, to Benj. Childers,
Amh, L300, 153 Ac. Lines Josiah Jopling, Matt Harris, Wm Harris, Benj.
Childress, to Rockfish River. Wit: Wm. Lee Harris, Jno Griffin, Jos.
Shelton.
427 253 2/18/1805 George Martin, and wife Mildred, Amh, to Thomas Childress,
L200, 230 ac, surveyed, 5/26/1795, S brchs of S fork of Rockfish. Lines:,
Cuthbert Webb, and Thomas Jopling deceased. Wit:
Hudson Martin, Peter Martin, Geo. Vaughn.
441 398 1/6/1806 Order to Henry Co. J.P.s, Geo. Martin and wife Mildred,
10/1805, to J Thomas Childeress, 230 Ac., Done by Ballinger Wade, and Jno
Dillard, 1/15/1806
Children: (others I'm sure)
1) John Royal 12 Jul 1797 to after 1881 married Mary Rebecca Huff
2) Nancy 1799 to aft 1810
3) James Henry 20 Dec 1801 to 29 Jul 1854 married Mary Gnets
4) Mahala 26 Oct 1802 to 30 Nov 1858 md Coleman Vines
5) William c1805-aft 1810
6) Agnes 1808 to aft 1880
7) Mary Martha Ann 20 Aug 1810 to aft 1880 md Vincent Huff
Steve
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http://childers-childress.com/willspart1.html
Colonial Wills Of HENRICO COUNTY, VIRGINIA PART ONE 1677-1737
(With Miscellaneous Documents Beginning in 1654)
p. 173 Will of Griffin Evans Dated May 15,1681
To Mary Childres, daughter of Philemon Childres, 20 hogs, except 1
barrow I give to loving friend John Aust
Also I give to said Mary other livestock and items
To loving friend John Aust, livestock
To Anne Aust, daughter of John Aust, livestock
Joseph Berekhead is indebted to me 1 pr. plain shoes; give these to John
Aust
To Temperance Cocke, 315 lbs. tobacco due me from John Baxter
To Mr. Thomas Cocke, 5 shillings due me from John Baxter
To John Aust, 3 shillings, 6 pence Joseph Harwood owes me
To Mr. Thomas Cocke's servant Jacke, I give a pr. of plain shoes William
Cocke owes me
To worthy friend Mr. Thomas Cocke, 40 lbs. tobacco ir hands of William Cocke
To Philemon Childres, son of Philemon Childres, a gunn, and suk and cloth
To Mary Childres, my chest and all therein
To Mr. Thomas Cocke, what shall appear to be cominf to me for my wages.
To Mary Childres, my saddle and bridle
Wit: Anne Marshall, Hugh Davis Probated 1 Aug. 1681
p. 78 Will of Abraham Childers, planter
To son Abraham Childers, I shilling
To son Henry Childers, I shilling and items
To loving wife Anne, all goods and chattels, and 1/2 of land where I now
live, with all houses, etc. for life, and then
to my son Philemon Childers. If he dies without heirs, then
to my son John Childers.
To son Harry Childers, the other 1/2 of my land at 21, and I he die, then
to my son Robert's children Wife Anne to be executrix Dated 6 Dec. 1693
Wit: Richard Franklin, Abigail Wakefield, John Newcombe Recorded 1 June 1698
p. 172 Will of Philemon Childers, Sr.
To son Pilemon, items now at his house
To son Abram, items now at Richard Blaw's plantation, and items at
Thomas Mathews'
To daughter Mary Smith, items
All the rest to son Thomas, who is to be executor Dated 10 Jan. 1716
Wit: Edmond Liptrot, Rachell Uptrot, Joseph Pleasants Recorded 3 May 1717
Henrico Co Wills, p ?, proved May 1717---Will of Phillemon Childers, In
the name of God...
Item I give and bequeath to my son Phillemon Childers ...(house goods
and heifer)
Item I give to my son Abram Childers... (bedding at Robert Blaws
plantation, goods at Thomas Matthewes, heifer, etc.),
Item I give to daughter Mary Smith... (bedding, goods, heifer, sealskin
trunk)
all the reset of my personal estate I give to my son Thomas Childers
whom I make ... ordain and constitute my whole and sole executor...
Witnessed 10 Jan 1716, Edmond Lipstrott, Rachell Lipstrott, Joseph
Pleasants. Signed Phillemon (X) Childers Senr.
HENRICO CO., VA WILLS ADDENDA Weisiger
p. 11 (p. 226) Will of SARAH PERKINS presented by Abraham Perkins, her
executor and proved by Edward Enroughty and Thomas Childers, a Quaker,
Thomas Childers and Constant Perkins, security.
ABRAHAM CHILDERS was born 30 November 1613 in Nottinghamshire/Leeds,
Yorkshire, England. He was a Planter. He married 1643 in Curles, Henrico
County, Virginia JANE "ANNE" HOWARD who was born 162-22 Nottinghamshire,
England. She was the daughter of John Howard. JANE died 1681 Henrico
County. ABRAHAM died 15 October 1679 in Henrico County, Virginia.ABRAHAM
was first seen in Henrico County in 1649. He bought land from William
Harris. John Epps and Thomas Lygon witnessed the deed. ABRAHAM lived in
Bermuda Hundred.Their children were: Sarah Childers b 1644/49 in Henrico
Conty, Virginia and died Jan 1721/22 in Henrico. She married 1664/70 in
Henrico County Nicholas Perkins III. They lived on Four Mile Creek. T
William Childers b 1647 and d 1725 Henrico County, Virginia. He left a
large estate in Henrico. His children were
Burton,
John who married Rachel Perkins,
Robert, and
Gracey.
Abraham Childers b 1 Apr 1655 in Curles, Henrico County, Virginia. He
was a planter and a race starter. He served many times on the Grand
Jury. He could read and write. In 1690 his father gave him property in
Varina, near Richmond. He may have died in 1693. In 1675/76 in Henrico
County, Virginia, he married Anne Pew daughter of Henry Pew and Jane
Womack. Anne had a sister Jane who married John Price Sr. and Hugh
Lygon. After Abraham died Anne married Mr. Adkins. Henry Pew purchased
land from Matthew Agee. Henry died 1790/11 in Henrico County, Virginia.
He owned land on Four Mile Creen on north side of James River. Abraham &
Ann had children:
Abraham b 1677 m (1) Elizabeth Cannon and (2) Lucy Thomas;
Henry Childers b 1678 m Lucretia Jones;
Robert Childres b 1685 m Catherine;
Philemon Childers b 1682/7 m. Elizabeth Evans;
John Childers b 1683/4 m Elizabeth; and
Jane Childers b 1695 m. John Smith.
Philemon Childers b 1656 in Curles, Henrico County, Virginia was called
Lemon. He was involved with Nicholas Perkins in land purchase. He was a
planter and he died 10 Jan 1717 in Henrico. He married very young - in
1669 in Henrico Mary Evans daughter of Griffin Evans of Henrico County,
Virginia who died 15 May 1681. They had a
daughter who married James Horton Sr;
Thomas who married Mary Holmes and Mary Milner;
Abraham who married Hester Pledge, widow of John Cannon;
Philemon Jr; and Mary who married her cousin Humphrey Smith. [A note
says 1 source has his wife as Mary Howard, daughter of John Howard.
Another note questions whether wife's name was Hester or Ester - will of
Abraham d 1720 clearly shows Hester.]
Mary Jean and List,
I didn't know you were a politician. Perhaps I made a poor choice of
words in drawing what I thought was a fairly obvious conclusion from what
you had presented and was only trying to give credit where credit was due.
What I was trying to do was to steer the conversation in a different
direction, and will of course retract what I said. Just for the record
though, I will note that, as usual, whatever I say, that you respond to,
seems eventually to get back to the same place. Reminds me of "talking
points". Maybe I should just say, I give up. Why don't we talk about Mark
and Gary and of course Joel. Would someone wake me when we finish.
Green Ayres
>From: MJCV25(a)aol.com
>Reply-To: CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-L(a)rootsweb.com
>To: CHILDRESS-RESEARCH-L(a)rootsweb.com
>Subject: Re: [CHILDRESS] Recent discussion by Steve, Kay and Mary Jean
>Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 19:52:48 EDT
>
>
>
>Green and All -
>
>
>Your message was quite lengthy and I apologize that mine is to! I would
>like
>to answer your comments directed to me.
>
>
>Question 4 -
>
>First, for the record Green, I have never claimed that Abraham Childress
>lll
>was the ancestor of the Childress-List Administrator's (Gary & Mark) nor
>their
>cousin, Dr. Joseph Childress. Could you please refer me to the message on
>any
>forum where I claimed or made that statement?
>
>What I know to be factual is that Abraham Childress lll is the ancestor of
>Kessiah Carter who married 1812 Amherst Co., VA to Robert Childress, son of
>John
>Childress (1759-1849c). She being the daughter of Peter and Elizabeth
>Sandidge Carter. Peter's mother was Mary Ann Childress who married his
>father,
>Solomon Carter in 1759. Mary Ann was the daughter of Abraham Childress
>lll. (1763
>Albemarle Co., VA Will). It would appear Mary Ann was colorful to say the
>least. According to documentation, she was also, the mother of a son, born
>out
>of wedlock. According to the Amherst County, VA court record for November
>1774,
>her son named "John Childers," son of Mary Carter, late Childers, was bound
>out. Mary Ann also was shown in her husbands 1786 Amherst will, per
>Solomon
>Carter, as living with another man. Mary Ann was in and out of the Amherst
>court regarding various legal issues between herself, that of John Goodrich
>(her
>second husband), her son William Carter and also her son, John Childers. I
>do
>not know John's age at the time he was bound out, who he was bound to or
>what
>happened to him. Mary Ann was alive in 1803-1804, when her deceased
>husband,
>John Goodrich's will was probated and she objected, however, her son
>Abraham
>Cannon Carter (brother to Peter Carter who was Kessiah Carter Childress'es
>father) was her witness.
>
>Also fact, John Childress (1759-1849c) had two daughters named Elizabeth
>and
>Mary Ann (Polly) who married two Hynds. These two Hynds descend (Lewis)
>from
>Cornelious Thomas, son of Lucy Thomas Neville Childress, last wife of
>Abraham
>Childress lll.
>
>Also fact, John Childress (1759-1849) had two others sons, (other then
>Robert
>Childress) and both proved to have the Christian name Creed in their
>family.
>
>For the record, Creed Childress was the third son of Abraham Childress lll.
>Creed was the brother of Mary Ann Childress, wife of Solomon Carter. In my
>research, I have located no other Childress family other then the John
>Childress
>(1759-1849) two sons, who used the Christian namesake of CREED through out
>their family, but this one. However, I did find it odd, if for no other
>reason
>that it wasn't within Robert and Kessiah's (that would be obvious), but
>rather
>those of his brothers. For further information, see Carter genforum, Dick
>Zieman.
>
>
>You said - Until Gary and Mark refute my "argument", we need to put this
>aside. -
>
>I didn't make a claim as to who they descend from. I only gave the
>information I am giving right now. As far as I know, they published their
>purported
>ancestry in their series and monolog, but provided no documentation.
>
>It's my opinion, due to Gary & Mark's position, as list administrator's of
>the Childress-List and the Childers / Childress DNA project, whatever they
>publish, be it their series / monolog and or their stance on Childers /
>Childress
>DNA, we do NOT have to accept it, but many do, because of their position as
>administrators of Childress-List and DNA project.
>
>It is my opinion, at this point, what I consider a very tired subject, they
>base the Childress-List on a theory for a 1745 crossing, the tombstone of
>Joel
>Childress (b.1777) and "family tradition," for which they claim to be
>"Scottish," with no connection to those in America pre-1745. They also
>state, that no
>one in America BEFORE 1745 were actual "Childress" and they come from "a
>different gene pool." Therefore, they have excluded those surnamed
>Childress as
>having assumed or changed the name and whose records are in early Virginia
>as
>being Childers.
>
>They also wrote to the Childress-List, that the name "Abraham" is a
>Childers
>name and not associated with the "Scottish" surname of their Childress.
>Additionally, their monolog / series which was published to the
>Childress-List as
>having been fact, even though I saw no sources for the series. I found
>errors
>and misleading information in their series and I posted a message to this
>list
>with corrections. I didn't see any corrections to their list, did you?
>
>Speaking only for myself, I feel it's in my best interest as a Childress,
>to
>continue with the research I began in the 1970s. IF a group of researchers
>make a genealogical claim, especially one, in which, directly affects my
>own
>Childress ancestry, then I feel I have the right to question these claims
>and if
>they are TRUE or NOT.
>
> At this point, I have not seen documentation for the purported claim that
>Joel Childress born 1777 was part of a 1745 ship crossing, his ancestry,
>nor the
>purported "Celtic" group. And on the "Celtic" group topic, I also see no
>proof that there were any other Childers, Childress or Childrey, who fall
>under
>that DNA group, unless you count the three who claim to be. Because of the
>DNA
>project, which Gary and Mark are the administrators, I question it. This is
>my opinion and I stand by it.
>
>Second, I became involved with the ancestry of Abraham Childress lll due to
>WHO his descendants were, WHO they married and WHO they intermingled with.
>Not
>by design, but rather through another project.
>
>I'm working on a project that I have plans to submit to "Estes Trails".
>I've
>contributed manuscripts for articles in the past. I am a direct Estes
>descendant through my maternal ancestry. If you don't know, there were
>marriages
>between Estes and Childress. One being Rev. Soldier, Robert Childress and
>his
>wife, Rachel Estes. Rachel and I descend from the same Estes ancestor. In
>fact,
>Con Childress corrected Gary and Mark's monolog regarding Millie Cox in
>Surry
>Co., NC. They had she was Millie Childress Cox, she wasn't, she was Millie
>Estes, wife of Frederick Cox. (See Childress-List archives, 2006).
>
>I am also working on another project (when time allows) and that is the
>EZELL
>connection to CHILDRESS, of which at present, totals 7 marriages between
>them, my own being one of them (Zelphia Ezell and Thomas Childress), this
>project
>I hope to publish in the Ezell Newsletter.
>
>While researching the Ezell family, I came across something very
>surprising,
>this was about 3 years ago, so it's been long in the making. While I
>certainly
>knew that my Ezell's married the Childress family, I wasn't sure which
>branch
>they all belonged to, until Con Childress brought it to my attention.
>
>I found that Rev. Soldier John Childress (1759-1849c) was the ancestor of
>the
>several or more, male Childress who married Ezell's. The more I dug for
>information, the more I learned. This is one reason I've shared these
>connections
>with the list. I don't like it when researchers horde data and never share
>it. I am not defending myself with what I publish to this list, I enjoy
>the
>hunt and hope to continue to publisher information here, no matter which
>branch
>of Childress it may be.
>
>If you don't know, I also connect to other Childress families, not
>necessarily my own. My children are double Childress descendants, maternal
>and
>paternal. My children being Hobson-Childress descendants, their lineage
>connects to
>three Childress families and also connects to Abraham lll's last wife, Lucy
>Thomas Neville Childress and her son-in-law, Henry Hobson.
>
>Okay Green, want to share with us what you have? We're ready, what'cha
>got?
>
>
>MaryJean
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Bob,
I agree. The major part I don't get? - Childress surname and variations
(e.g., CHILDERS) with CELTIC roots. What does this mean? Since when did they
consider Childers "Celtic"? Wow! Would that be because of who they selected as
their Scottish ancestor, George "Childers," who worked in Scotland? By the way,
if you recall, Kay posted a lot of information on Scotland and the Childers /
Childress who lived there. I think Kay's message was published before we
heard about the Scottish George Childers?
Before the new introduction, they had - NO Childers or variations, only
Childress, if you want to discuss variations, join the Childers-List or the
Childress-Research-List. I guess that about says it all, huh?
MaryJean
Green and All -
Your message was quite lengthy and I apologize that mine is to! I would like
to answer your comments directed to me.
Question 4 -
First, for the record Green, I have never claimed that Abraham Childress lll
was the ancestor of the Childress-List Administrator's (Gary & Mark) nor their
cousin, Dr. Joseph Childress. Could you please refer me to the message on any
forum where I claimed or made that statement?
What I know to be factual is that Abraham Childress lll is the ancestor of
Kessiah Carter who married 1812 Amherst Co., VA to Robert Childress, son of John
Childress (1759-1849c). She being the daughter of Peter and Elizabeth
Sandidge Carter. Peter's mother was Mary Ann Childress who married his father,
Solomon Carter in 1759. Mary Ann was the daughter of Abraham Childress lll. (1763
Albemarle Co., VA Will). It would appear Mary Ann was colorful to say the
least. According to documentation, she was also, the mother of a son, born out
of wedlock. According to the Amherst County, VA court record for November 1774,
her son named "John Childers," son of Mary Carter, late Childers, was bound
out. Mary Ann also was shown in her husbands 1786 Amherst will, per Solomon
Carter, as living with another man. Mary Ann was in and out of the Amherst
court regarding various legal issues between herself, that of John Goodrich (her
second husband), her son William Carter and also her son, John Childers. I do
not know John's age at the time he was bound out, who he was bound to or what
happened to him. Mary Ann was alive in 1803-1804, when her deceased husband,
John Goodrich's will was probated and she objected, however, her son Abraham
Cannon Carter (brother to Peter Carter who was Kessiah Carter Childress'es
father) was her witness.
Also fact, John Childress (1759-1849c) had two daughters named Elizabeth and
Mary Ann (Polly) who married two Hynds. These two Hynds descend (Lewis) from
Cornelious Thomas, son of Lucy Thomas Neville Childress, last wife of Abraham
Childress lll.
Also fact, John Childress (1759-1849) had two others sons, (other then Robert
Childress) and both proved to have the Christian name Creed in their family.
For the record, Creed Childress was the third son of Abraham Childress lll.
Creed was the brother of Mary Ann Childress, wife of Solomon Carter. In my
research, I have located no other Childress family other then the John Childress
(1759-1849) two sons, who used the Christian namesake of CREED through out
their family, but this one. However, I did find it odd, if for no other reason
that it wasn't within Robert and Kessiah's (that would be obvious), but rather
those of his brothers. For further information, see Carter genforum, Dick
Zieman.
You said - Until Gary and Mark refute my "argument", we need to put this
aside. -
I didn't make a claim as to who they descend from. I only gave the
information I am giving right now. As far as I know, they published their purported
ancestry in their series and monolog, but provided no documentation.
It's my opinion, due to Gary & Mark's position, as list administrator's of
the Childress-List and the Childers / Childress DNA project, whatever they
publish, be it their series / monolog and or their stance on Childers / Childress
DNA, we do NOT have to accept it, but many do, because of their position as
administrators of Childress-List and DNA project.
It is my opinion, at this point, what I consider a very tired subject, they
base the Childress-List on a theory for a 1745 crossing, the tombstone of Joel
Childress (b.1777) and "family tradition," for which they claim to be
"Scottish," with no connection to those in America pre-1745. They also state, that no
one in America BEFORE 1745 were actual "Childress" and they come from "a
different gene pool." Therefore, they have excluded those surnamed Childress as
having assumed or changed the name and whose records are in early Virginia as
being Childers.
They also wrote to the Childress-List, that the name "Abraham" is a Childers
name and not associated with the "Scottish" surname of their Childress.
Additionally, their monolog / series which was published to the Childress-List as
having been fact, even though I saw no sources for the series. I found errors
and misleading information in their series and I posted a message to this list
with corrections. I didn't see any corrections to their list, did you?
Speaking only for myself, I feel it's in my best interest as a Childress, to
continue with the research I began in the 1970s. IF a group of researchers
make a genealogical claim, especially one, in which, directly affects my own
Childress ancestry, then I feel I have the right to question these claims and if
they are TRUE or NOT.
At this point, I have not seen documentation for the purported claim that
Joel Childress born 1777 was part of a 1745 ship crossing, his ancestry, nor the
purported "Celtic" group. And on the "Celtic" group topic, I also see no
proof that there were any other Childers, Childress or Childrey, who fall under
that DNA group, unless you count the three who claim to be. Because of the DNA
project, which Gary and Mark are the administrators, I question it. This is
my opinion and I stand by it.
Second, I became involved with the ancestry of Abraham Childress lll due to
WHO his descendants were, WHO they married and WHO they intermingled with. Not
by design, but rather through another project.
I'm working on a project that I have plans to submit to "Estes Trails". I've
contributed manuscripts for articles in the past. I am a direct Estes
descendant through my maternal ancestry. If you don't know, there were marriages
between Estes and Childress. One being Rev. Soldier, Robert Childress and his
wife, Rachel Estes. Rachel and I descend from the same Estes ancestor. In fact,
Con Childress corrected Gary and Mark's monolog regarding Millie Cox in Surry
Co., NC. They had she was Millie Childress Cox, she wasn't, she was Millie
Estes, wife of Frederick Cox. (See Childress-List archives, 2006).
I am also working on another project (when time allows) and that is the EZELL
connection to CHILDRESS, of which at present, totals 7 marriages between
them, my own being one of them (Zelphia Ezell and Thomas Childress), this project
I hope to publish in the Ezell Newsletter.
While researching the Ezell family, I came across something very surprising,
this was about 3 years ago, so it's been long in the making. While I certainly
knew that my Ezell's married the Childress family, I wasn't sure which branch
they all belonged to, until Con Childress brought it to my attention.
I found that Rev. Soldier John Childress (1759-1849c) was the ancestor of the
several or more, male Childress who married Ezell's. The more I dug for
information, the more I learned. This is one reason I've shared these connections
with the list. I don't like it when researchers horde data and never share
it. I am not defending myself with what I publish to this list, I enjoy the
hunt and hope to continue to publisher information here, no matter which branch
of Childress it may be.
If you don't know, I also connect to other Childress families, not
necessarily my own. My children are double Childress descendants, maternal and
paternal. My children being Hobson-Childress descendants, their lineage connects to
three Childress families and also connects to Abraham lll's last wife, Lucy
Thomas Neville Childress and her son-in-law, Henry Hobson.
Okay Green, want to share with us what you have? We're ready, what'cha got?
MaryJean
Anyone know where this creek is in Fluvanna/Albemarle County, Virginia. I
can not find it on any map, new or old. Thanks.
Regards,
Steve
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