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Very interesting. Thanks, again, Don!
Louis
On 10/7/07 7:18 PM, "Donald Chesnut" <d.chesnut(a)insightbb.com> wrote:
> I have taken a closer look at the Ches(t)nut(t) results (Groups B-G) in
> the Chesnut DNA project. This excludes the Chastains and the Chesney in our
> project who don't seem to be related. I'll have more about them later. The
> following is a hypothetical framework or tree that accounts for the
> variations in the 12-count markers of the basic DNA kit.
> There are two basal groups represented by participants so far, the Basal
> Group BG and the larger Basal Group C-F. Group BG differs from Group C-F by
> the minimum difference of three slow-marker positions, which is a pretty
> significant difference. BG has the #393 marker value of 14 and a #388
> marker value of 10. The C-F group has a #393 marker value of 13 and a #388
> value of 12 (a two-step difference for this marker). These two markers are
> slowly evolving or slowly mutating markers, so these differences came about
> pretty far back in time. With more participants, we might be able to figure
> out which of the marker changes came first, but for the time being, we'll
> have to wait. Basal Group BG is composed of Group B (Elwood Chestnut, b.?,
> d. 1919 Philadelphia) and Group B (John Chestnut, b. 1821 Craig Park, N.
> Ireland). These two Groups differ by only one slowly mutating marker,
> marker #390. Group B has a value of 24, like all the other Chesnuts, but
> Group G has a value of 25.
> The Chesnut Basal Group C-F consists of four groups and a hypothetical
> group. The basal member of this group is the hypothetical Group X which is
> intermediary with the remaining Groups C through F. It probably existed,
> but we don't have participants with this match yet. It was similar to the
> other basal group (BG) except for the minimum differences previously noted.
> Group E (Robert Chestnut, b.ca 1830 Northern Ireland) differs from
> hypothetical Group X by only one fast-changing marker, marker 439 which has
> a value of 13. Groups C through F and hypotherical Group X have a value of
> 12 for this marker. This difference suggests that Group E is fairly closely
> related to hypothetical Group X.
> The minimum difference between Groups E,X and Groups C,D,F is with one
> slowly-changing marker, marker #391, with a value of 10 for CDF. Groups C,D
> and F differs from all other groups previously mentioned, which have a
> marker #391 value of 11. The basal group of Groups CDF is Group C. Group C
> has three participants with oldest known ancestors as follows: a) John
> Chesnut, b ca. 1810 Perry Co., PA; b) Hugh Chesnutt, b. 1777 of TN; and c)
> William Chesnut, b.ca 1727, m. 2nd Callahan. One hypothesis was that
> William (b.1727) was born in PA and moved to VA. Perhaps he was an
> greatuncle to the John (b. 1810 PA). Some of Williams offspring moved to
> TN, perhaps giving rise to Hugh (b.1777) of TN.
> Closely related to Group C is Group D with a difference of only one
> fast-changing marker, marker #385b. Group D has a value of 15, whereas all
> other groups of Chesnuts have a value of 14 for this marker. Groups D has
> two participants with oldest known ancestors as follows: a) William J.
> Chestnut, b. 1844; and James Chesnut, b. 1830 Northern Ireland.
> Groups C is also related to Group F with a difference in the #389-2
> marker. Group F has a value of 31 for this slowly-changing marker, a
> difference of two steps as compared to a value of 29 for all other Chesnut
> groups. Group F has one participant with an oldest know ancestor, Alexander
> S. Chesnut, b. 1672 County Antrim, Ireland.
> All of the differences in the Chesnut Groups B through G most likely
> originated before any of them came to North America. We are seeing
> different families making the migrations in the 17th, 18th and 19th
> centuries. It is also possible the the Group BG is not related to the Group
> C-F because the marker values are so different.
> Thanks,
> Don
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CHESNUT-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
> the subject and the body of the message
I have taken a closer look at the Ches(t)nut(t) results (Groups B-G) in
the Chesnut DNA project. This excludes the Chastains and the Chesney in our
project who don't seem to be related. I'll have more about them later. The
following is a hypothetical framework or tree that accounts for the
variations in the 12-count markers of the basic DNA kit.
There are two basal groups represented by participants so far, the Basal
Group BG and the larger Basal Group C-F. Group BG differs from Group C-F by
the minimum difference of three slow-marker positions, which is a pretty
significant difference. BG has the #393 marker value of 14 and a #388
marker value of 10. The C-F group has a #393 marker value of 13 and a #388
value of 12 (a two-step difference for this marker). These two markers are
slowly evolving or slowly mutating markers, so these differences came about
pretty far back in time. With more participants, we might be able to figure
out which of the marker changes came first, but for the time being, we'll
have to wait. Basal Group BG is composed of Group B (Elwood Chestnut, b.?,
d. 1919 Philadelphia) and Group B (John Chestnut, b. 1821 Craig Park, N.
Ireland). These two Groups differ by only one slowly mutating marker,
marker #390. Group B has a value of 24, like all the other Chesnuts, but
Group G has a value of 25.
The Chesnut Basal Group C-F consists of four groups and a hypothetical
group. The basal member of this group is the hypothetical Group X which is
intermediary with the remaining Groups C through F. It probably existed,
but we don't have participants with this match yet. It was similar to the
other basal group (BG) except for the minimum differences previously noted.
Group E (Robert Chestnut, b.ca 1830 Northern Ireland) differs from
hypothetical Group X by only one fast-changing marker, marker 439 which has
a value of 13. Groups C through F and hypotherical Group X have a value of
12 for this marker. This difference suggests that Group E is fairly closely
related to hypothetical Group X.
The minimum difference between Groups E,X and Groups C,D,F is with one
slowly-changing marker, marker #391, with a value of 10 for CDF. Groups C,D
and F differs from all other groups previously mentioned, which have a
marker #391 value of 11. The basal group of Groups CDF is Group C. Group C
has three participants with oldest known ancestors as follows: a) John
Chesnut, b ca. 1810 Perry Co., PA; b) Hugh Chesnutt, b. 1777 of TN; and c)
William Chesnut, b.ca 1727, m. 2nd Callahan. One hypothesis was that
William (b.1727) was born in PA and moved to VA. Perhaps he was an
greatuncle to the John (b. 1810 PA). Some of Williams offspring moved to
TN, perhaps giving rise to Hugh (b.1777) of TN.
Closely related to Group C is Group D with a difference of only one
fast-changing marker, marker #385b. Group D has a value of 15, whereas all
other groups of Chesnuts have a value of 14 for this marker. Groups D has
two participants with oldest known ancestors as follows: a) William J.
Chestnut, b. 1844; and James Chesnut, b. 1830 Northern Ireland.
Groups C is also related to Group F with a difference in the #389-2
marker. Group F has a value of 31 for this slowly-changing marker, a
difference of two steps as compared to a value of 29 for all other Chesnut
groups. Group F has one participant with an oldest know ancestor, Alexander
S. Chesnut, b. 1672 County Antrim, Ireland.
All of the differences in the Chesnut Groups B through G most likely
originated before any of them came to North America. We are seeing
different families making the migrations in the 17th, 18th and 19th
centuries. It is also possible the the Group BG is not related to the Group
C-F because the marker values are so different.
Thanks,
Don
Thank you Don for all the work that you have done for us in researching the
genesis of our name.
Best wishes to you.
Dan Chestnut
USA
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Thanks very much, Don. I find this extremely interesting, especially the
evidence that appears to sever a possible Chastain/Chesnut connection.
Are the 13 participants of different spellings? Supposing there were no
Chesnut/Chastain connection but still a possible Chestnut/Chastain
connection, that would be quite telling.
I'm especially interested in this since my dad and four of his brothers
decided to use "Chenette" after being "Chesnut". While they were living, we
never had thorough discussions about this, but I have wondered if they saw
themselves returning more accurately to Huguenot roots and, perhaps, an
ancestral name like Chesneau, Chenequ, or Chene, -- which would suggest
"oak" rather than "chestnut." Maybe Chesnut ancestors were oaks and not
chestnuts.
More DNA evidence may reveal a lot more . . .
Thanks, again.
Louis
On 10/5/07 1:03 PM, "Donald Chesnut" <d.chesnut(a)insightbb.com> wrote:
> I thought this would be a good time to report the status of our Chesnut DNA
> project. This project includes all spelling variations including Chesnut,
> Chesnutt, Chestnut, Chestnutt, Chesnot, Chesnau, Chesney and McChesney,
> whether they are related or not.
>
> Currently we have 13 participants falling into eight group (see Y Results
> at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/chesnut/ ). All current participants
> are from North America. Of the eight groups, there are two main haplotypes
> (deep root divisions): R1a and R1b. These different haplotypes mean that
> the two male lines represented by the haplotypes are totally unrelated
> within historic times.
>
> The R1a haplotype is commonly referred to as the Eastern European
> haplogroup. Our single participant in the Chesney Group has this haplotype.
> We can't say much more about this group until we get more participants.
>
> The other seven groups belong to the R1b haplotype which is referred to as
> the Western European haplogroup. This is the most common haplogroup in the
> British Isles and in the early Anglo-American colonies. Our R1b members can
> be divided into two groups, the Chastains and the Chesnuts (many spelling
> variations; I'll use Chesnut throughout to keep it short). One hypothesis
> that we are now able to test (in part) is that the Chesnuts were originally
> Huguenots from France. After the revocation of the Edict of Nantes,
> Huguenots were heavily persecuted and many fled to the British Isles and to
> the American Colonies. The prominent Huguenot Chastain family came to the
> American Colonies. One hypothesis was that a branch of the Chastain family
> came to Northern Ireland and anglicized their name to Chesnut (Chastain
> means Chestnut in French). A comparison of our six Chesnut groups with the
> three Chastain participants show a number of mismatches in the 12-count
> markers. It is not likely that the two groups have a common ancestor within
> the last thousand years. This Chastain-to-Chesnut hypothesis has been
> disproved. However, we haven't disproved relationships with the Chesnuts
> and other Huguenot families. In looking at DNA matches with my own test
> kit, almost all of the many matches are from sources in the British Isles.
> I suspect an origin for the Chesnuts is in the British Isles, not Huguenot
> France.
>
> The three members of the Chastain group have only one marker difference
> (out of 12 markers) with their genetic nearest neighbor in the Chastain
> group or two markers difference from their furthest genetic neighbor. This
> is to be expected with a common ancestor dating back to four hundred years.
> I think it is reasonable to expect them to be from the same Chastain family
> dating from that period.
>
> The six Chesnut groups, B through G differ by only one marker (12-count
> marker) from their nearest genetic neighbor as well. I think that this
> shows that these six groups are all related with a most distant common
> ancestor around 400 years ago. However, because of the complexity involved,
> I will need a phylogenetic statistics program, like PAUP, to be able to
> tease out the relationships of the six branches to each other. This will
> take some time. If someone already has this program and knows how to use
> it, please contact me. Otherwise, I will slowly get this done.
>
> We did not find any Native American Y-chromosome haplotypes on any of the
> lines tested so far. This result supports our genealogical studies for
> these lines. Native American genes, if any, would have been introduced
> along one or more of the many mixed maternal-paternal lines.
>
> We now need new participants from individuals around the world to answer
> new questions about the Chesnut/Chesney/McChesney, etc. family. To join, go
> to...
> http://www.familytreedna.com/public/chesnut/
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CHESNUT-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
> the subject and the body of the message
I thought this would be a good time to report the status of our Chesnut DNA
project. This project includes all spelling variations including Chesnut,
Chesnutt, Chestnut, Chestnutt, Chesnot, Chesnau, Chesney and McChesney,
whether they are related or not.
Currently we have 13 participants falling into eight group (see Y Results
at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/chesnut/ ). All current participants
are from North America. Of the eight groups, there are two main haplotypes
(deep root divisions): R1a and R1b. These different haplotypes mean that
the two male lines represented by the haplotypes are totally unrelated
within historic times.
The R1a haplotype is commonly referred to as the Eastern European
haplogroup. Our single participant in the Chesney Group has this haplotype.
We can't say much more about this group until we get more participants.
The other seven groups belong to the R1b haplotype which is referred to as
the Western European haplogroup. This is the most common haplogroup in the
British Isles and in the early Anglo-American colonies. Our R1b members can
be divided into two groups, the Chastains and the Chesnuts (many spelling
variations; I'll use Chesnut throughout to keep it short). One hypothesis
that we are now able to test (in part) is that the Chesnuts were originally
Huguenots from France. After the revocation of the Edict of Nantes,
Huguenots were heavily persecuted and many fled to the British Isles and to
the American Colonies. The prominent Huguenot Chastain family came to the
American Colonies. One hypothesis was that a branch of the Chastain family
came to Northern Ireland and anglicized their name to Chesnut (Chastain
means Chestnut in French). A comparison of our six Chesnut groups with the
three Chastain participants show a number of mismatches in the 12-count
markers. It is not likely that the two groups have a common ancestor within
the last thousand years. This Chastain-to-Chesnut hypothesis has been
disproved. However, we haven't disproved relationships with the Chesnuts
and other Huguenot families. In looking at DNA matches with my own test
kit, almost all of the many matches are from sources in the British Isles.
I suspect an origin for the Chesnuts is in the British Isles, not Huguenot
France.
The three members of the Chastain group have only one marker difference
(out of 12 markers) with their genetic nearest neighbor in the Chastain
group or two markers difference from their furthest genetic neighbor. This
is to be expected with a common ancestor dating back to four hundred years.
I think it is reasonable to expect them to be from the same Chastain family
dating from that period.
The six Chesnut groups, B through G differ by only one marker (12-count
marker) from their nearest genetic neighbor as well. I think that this
shows that these six groups are all related with a most distant common
ancestor around 400 years ago. However, because of the complexity involved,
I will need a phylogenetic statistics program, like PAUP, to be able to
tease out the relationships of the six branches to each other. This will
take some time. If someone already has this program and knows how to use
it, please contact me. Otherwise, I will slowly get this done.
We did not find any Native American Y-chromosome haplotypes on any of the
lines tested so far. This result supports our genealogical studies for
these lines. Native American genes, if any, would have been introduced
along one or more of the many mixed maternal-paternal lines.
We now need new participants from individuals around the world to answer
new questions about the Chesnut/Chesney/McChesney, etc. family. To join, go
to...
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/chesnut/
Thanks,
Don