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Author: thepuppiesmom
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cheek/1106.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Where does Reba live now? My ex-mother in law was named Reba.
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Author: slpearson16
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Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cheek/1107.1.3.1.2.1.3.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
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Regarding Luis Michel who proceeded as far as Edinburg, VA in 1706 and did not see any Native Americans, he was about 50 miles south of the Cross Junction Shawnee settlement. He would have needed Superman's telescopic vision to see that far to say there were no Shawnee there. Moorefield, WV, where another Shawnee settlement existed, is over 60 miles away because a mountain blocks a straight path to it from Edinburg. Luis Michel would have needed both telescopic vision AND x-ray vision to see that settlement from Edinburg. As far as the Shawnee settlement on the North River, whether or not Luis Michel would have been able to tell if that was there or not would depend entirely upon which branch of the Shenandoah he followed North, as the North River, the South River, and the Middle River which all combine to form the Shenandoah.
Regarding Thomas Walker who saw no Indians in his 1750 expedition through southwestern Virginia, the Shawnee settlements I wrote of existed in the northern Virginia, not southwestern. And I doubt very much that Thomas Walker explored every part of southwestern Virginia. There are a lot of mountains there, and at that time they would have been well-forested. It would have been impossible for Thomas Walker to explore all of that on foot or even horseback in just one expedition, even if said expedition lasted for a number of years. You couldn't even completely explore the entire southwestern Virginia in a modern SUV in a few years.
The Native Americans were not so numerous by th 1750s in Virginia. The Shawnee themselves were never a very large group of Indians. You couldn't just walk any old direction and trip over them. Nor did they advertise their existence, given that most Native American tribes had Native American enemies at one time or another.
A Native American settlement or village can be anything from just a couple families on up. Given the low population density of Virginia at those times, it would have been quite easy to miss Native American settlements except for the large ones. Nor would any Native American necessarily have told a white man that he was from a settlement nearby, given the state of affairs between whites and Indians at that time.
The Cherokee stuck more to the Blue Ridge mountains for their settlements, from what I understand, with the majority of them living more in Georgia/Alabama and thereabouts.
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Author: MaryWallace1945
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Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cheek/1107.1.3.1.2.1.3.1.1.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
>From the Va. Dept. of Historic Resources:
Indians in the Mountains
Little is known from the written record of the Indians who lived in the mountains of western Virginia. John Lederer was the first European to view the Shenandoah Valley from the Blue Ridge in 1670 when his party traveled up the headwaters of the Rappahannock River. The Robert Fallam and Thomas Batts expedition of 1671 marked the first contact with the Totero people living in either the Roanoke or New River Valleys. By 1706, when Louis Michel, a French Swiss traveler, proceeded up the Shenandoah River to a point near Edinburg, he noted that "All this country is uninhabited except by some Indians." The area was presumed devoid of any permanent settlements, with only hunting parties of Shawnees, Susquehannocks, and Iroquois moving through.
Thomas Walker, a physician who became a surveyor for the Royal Land Company, saw no Indians in his 1750 expedition through southwestern Virginia. Twice, however, he came across Indian tracks on the trail. When he reached Long Island in the Holston River at Kingsport, Tennessee, he described an abandoned village that may have been Cherokee: "In the Fork between the Holston's and the North River, are five Indian Houses built with logs and covered with bark, and there were an abundance of Bones, some whole Pots and Pans, some broken and many pieces of mats and Cloth."
By the time Europeans came to settle western Virginia, it had become another region void of Indian villages. The only natives sighted were hunting, trading, and raiding groups of Cherokees and Shawnees passing through
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Author: slpearson16
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cheek/1107.1.3.1.2.1.3.1.2/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
I understand what you are saying about your ancestors. I feel the same way about mine. I tend to be rather intensely curious about them, though, and have been curious about my families history and genealogy since a kid.
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Author: slpearson16
Surnames: Cheek
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cheek/1107.1.3.1.2.1.5/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
Regarding a Mediterranean influence in the Cheek line. If it didn't creep in prior to the line coming over from Europe, the only other ways it could have come in were from contact with the Spanish or from North African slaves (Africa borders the Mediterranean Sea, too). However, by the 1700s the Spanish were nowhere near Virginia. It could have come in through Spanish contact with Native Americans, however. The Louisiana Territories were still under Spanish control.
However, in my mind the odds favor the Mediterranean influence coming over from Europe via the English settlers who had picked it up ancestrally prior to coming over to America, or through a relationship with a North African slave.
As regards murdering tavern keepers, I take it you have come across the story about a Cheek who was a tavern keeper who supposedly murdered one or more people?
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Author: slpearson16
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Classification: queries
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Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
I can find no records of any archaeological digs at any of the sites of the Shawnee villages, Cross Junction, Mooreton, and North River, VA that have anything to do with 18th Century Native Americans. The only remotely related was in response to a construction project in Mooreton which had disturbed an Indian burial ground.
I would be pleased to have any references to any archaeological digs in the above three areas that prove that there were no Shawnee or Native American villages in those three areas after 1730.
As you well know, absence of proof is not proof of absence, and as an archivist and historian for Clark County, you know as well as the rest of us here the importance of giving your sources of information, which you have yet to do.
Until you can post references or evidence for your assertions, they aren't going to bear a lot of weight.
As a side note, most archaeological digs aren't concerned with 18th Century Native Americans because there isn't much grant money for that. The sites tend to be more concerned with prehistoric human sites or with white settlements for which there is more grant money available. I would be most interested in reading articles and/or contacting the appropriate people in those digs concerned with 18th century Native Americans at those sites.
Regarding the Iroquois and the Shawnee, the relationship between them was not that black-and-white. At the treaty of Lancaster in 1748, the Iroquois represented not only their own league but also represented the Shawnee and the Delaware in these negotiations (http://www.tolatsga.org/shaw.html). Not exactly the behavior of mortal enemies. Among the Native Americans tribes of that time, if one won a war over the other, the winner could claim tribute and/or backup during wartime in return for protecting them and allowing them to live and hunt on their lands. This did not always happen, sometimes there was just too much bad blood, but this was how the Iroquois and the Cherokee tended to do things. The Cherokee did something like this to create a buffer zone between themselves and some of their enemies.
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Author: MaryWallace1945
Surnames:
Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cheek/1107.1.3.1.2.1.3.1/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
You have misunderstood what I have said--I don't care what ethnic origin my ancestors came from, one origin does not make one better than another--also if they were rich or poor, Confederate or Union, etc...they are mine and have been for the almost 50 years I have been doing genealogy. The more origins in the mix, the better. As for the Indians in the Valley...they went thru, they camped, but according to the 4 archaeologists and numerous historians I have worked with, by the early 1700s all but a very few scattered groups were not permanent settlers in the Valley. It was used as a pass-thru between the Northern tribes and their battlegrounds in the far South. Have never been able to find any true documentation about those Shawnees living over in what is now Frederick Co. Peddlers wanting to trade in the valley in the early 18th century had to treat with the Iroquois Confederacy for permission. If you have true documentation on permanent Indian settlements after 1650 in !
the Valley, please send it to me. As archivist and historian for Clarke County, as well as a genealogist, I want to be right.
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Author: slpearson16
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Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cheek/1107.1.3.1.2.1.4/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
We can't rule out Melungeon or Meditteranean in the early Cheeks, but to state that there were no Native Americans in the Shenandoah Valley after 1730 is wrong. There are records up until 1754 of Shawnee living there.
As far as the Shenandoah being used for hunting and battling, the Shenandoah Valley was wide enough for settlements to avoid settling on those trails used by war parties. Hunting grounds were shared among those tribes that were friends or allies, or relations in some way. Putting up a village or settlement was not a problem as long as they didn't threaten the hunting and they were friends, allies, etc.
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Author: jaredjessiedunn
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Classification: queries
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http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.cheek/1107.1.3.1.2.1.3/mb.ashx
Message Board Post:
I agree with slpearson. He has done his research.
And if you don't care who your ancestors were and what they did then why are you on Ancestry.com? Just a question...
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Author: jaredjessiedunn
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Message Board Post:
I agree with slpearson.
And if you don't care who your ancestor's were or what kind of lives they led then why are you on ancestory.com? Just a question.
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Author: slpearson16
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Where is your proof that there were no Native Americans in the Shenandoah Valley after 1730? I don't think you have any proof, as I was able to find the following information showing that there were Shawnee and other Native Americans in the Shenandoah Valley after 1730 up until the 1750s. There were not great numbers after 1730, but they were still there after 1730.
Evidence for Native Americans in the Shenandoah Valley after 1730 as follows --
The Treaty of Lancaster, signed in 1744, ceded the Iroquois' claims to the Shenandoah Valley. Prior to this there were recorded skirmishes between the Iroquois and white settlers in the Shenandoah Valley. -- Joseph Solomon Walton, 1900, Conrad Weiser and the Indian Policy of Colonial Pennsylvania pp. 76-121.
"The few Shawnees who still resided in the Valley abruptly headed westward in 1754, having been approached the year before by emissaries from their kindred beyond the Alleghanies." -- Joseph Doddridge, 1850, A History of the Valley of Virginia pp. 44-45
"Prior to 1754, the Shawnee had a headquarters at Shawnee Springs at modern-day Cross Junction, Virginia near Winchester. The father of the later chief Cornstalk held his court there. Two other Shawnee villages existed in the Shenandoah Valley: one at Moorefield, West Virginia, and one on the North River. In 1753, Shawnee to the west sent messengers inviting the Virginia people to leave the Shenandoah Valley and cross the Alleghenies. The Virginia Shawnee migrated west the following year, joining Shawnee on the Scioto River in the Ohio country." -- Joseph Doddridge, 1850, A History of the Valley of Virginia, p. 44
"1758, 50 Indians led by four Frenchmen raided a small village just west of Fort Valley and took 48 prisoners. After nightfall, one young boy escaped and ran 15 miles shoeless, hatless and only scantily clad over the Massanutten into the Fort Valley to Keller's Fort for aid. A small party came back with him the next morning, but when they learned how large the force was, they gave up pursuit. Three years later some of the captured returned home. Many of the children taken lived the remainder of their lives with the Indians. Years after the raid, one woman returned home married to an Indian trader. She had forgotten her native German tongue and spoke only the Indian tongue. " -- http://firstsettlersshenandoahvalley.com/history.html
I am awaiting your evidence that there were no Shawnee or Native Americans living in the Shenandoah Valley after 1730.
And by the way, the Iroquois held the southern Shenandoah Valley, not the entire Valley.
The Shawnee tended to be nomadic. Their villages tended to be more temporary. Nomads carry their items with them, they tend to leave little to no archaeological evidence behind.
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Author: marytmorris
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Wanted to let everybody know that by the 1730s there were NO native americans living in the Valley. What was the Iraquois Confederacy held sway in the Valley and it was only used as a pass-thru on their way N or S for hunting and battling. Nothing has ever proved that there WERE any Shawnees living in Frederick Co.; in fact no archaeological digs in the entire valley have come up with Native American artifacts later than the 1500s. My Jaspers married Cheeks and there was that Cherokee story floating 40 years ago, but we might need to consider the Mediterranean coloring, and even melungeon roots as possibilities(a lot of their ancestors were portuguese). I don't really care what genetic stock they came from/if they were murdering tavern keepers/small farmers/slave holders;
I'm just glad they thrived and multiplied--otherwise I wouldn't be here.
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