Hello Erica (et al)
Not so much confusing John and son William Cattley (orchid) of High Barnet
with John of Shabden more a case of crossover error! John and William had a
house at 21 Lambs Conduit Street in Holborn and property in High Barnet (or
Chipping Barnet) long since demolished where William had his greenhouses
(then called stoves) where he first discovered what is now known as the
Cattleya genus orchid.
"John of Shabden" as I understand it origionally owned a property called
"Lyonsdown" which I think was in or near Barnet which he bought from the
Reid family in 1842 which he finally sold out to the Great Northern Railway
after a grand public battle with them which I understand was fully reported
at the time. He then went on to build and live at Shabden which of course
was NOT near Barnet at all but in Surrey.
As for your comments re my tree commencing with Stevan Catlay married
Elizabeth Jube 1609 in the Parish of Normanton in Yorkshire:- I would be
the first one to welcome any other Cat*ley who can prove lineage with my
tree with open arms and at the same time enjoy with them the delight of them
suddenly gaining around 1300 names to add to their Tree!!
However, I do find all the recent excitement of so called likenesses of a
photograph taken in early1900's compared with an artists idea of a person
born in1785 to be very over speculative indeed. Those who seek to "make
links" on such tenuous shreds of "evidence" I think will be disappointed
unless they can research their way back to Yorkshire circa late 1500's, if
they can, then there is a possibility.
However, as you quite correctly indicate, there are numerous records of
Cat*leys who pre date 1609 and many of them are in the S.E.of England and as
we have discussed before I am of the opinion that the Cat*ley name is multi
sourced as a place name and as such it is highly improbable that Cat*leys
from London, Essex,Herts, Cambs and Somerset have any ultimate connections
with those from Yorkshire and Lincolnshire.
There has been even further speculation re illegitimacy as the key. This of
course is a possibility as by the 1700's members of my tree such as John of
Shabden and many others had made their way in life and were involved in
business in London. However to prove a connection I think would be almost
impossible and in any case offspring would normally have assumed the mothers
name and not the fathers so no connection with Cat*ley would be evident
anyway.
You have not only inserted a photograph of my great grandparents but also of
my grandfather which I think Erica is getting a bit "close to home" if you
do not mind me saying because going on recent euphoria it is quite possible
that some person or other will e-mail in with an attachment photo saying
that Kenneth Moberly Cattley is the spitting image of his/her grandfather
Whatsis Catley from Wherever when he was 13 years old and will be claiming a
relationship by likeness!
This photo likeness lark should in my opinion be taken as a light hearted
aside and should not detract from, or influence open minded, unbiased proper
research.
Regards ............. Tim Cattley
----- Original Message -----
From: Erica Hills <erica(a)hillsperth.com>
To: <CATLEY-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:11 PM
Subject: [CAT...] Spellings and resemblances
Hi Tim and all,
Just surfaced from my weekly commitments and noticed your postings on John
CATTLEY of Shabden. Methinks Tim that you are confusing John CATTLEY of
Shabden near Chipstead in Surrey, with his uncle John CATTLEY of Barnet
of
Chipping Barnet in Middlesex, father of William CATTLEY of Orchid
fame.
I realise that you do not see the point of discussing YOUR relatives when
there is so much work to be done on others' relatives but some on the
list
seem to feel - and possibly with justification - that they too are
related
to Stevan CATLAY born about 1580. After all, we know nothing whatsoever
about his background apart from the fact that he married Elizabeth Jube
from Normanton in 1609 - he might be part of a large family for all we
know, though I know this has not been evident so far. However, in my
very informal and unproved database I have 85 entries for CATLEYs in the
1500s before Stevan.
Since you have raised the question of "where is Shabden" I have put a
picture of it on the new picture page I have produced including the group
photo of the children including your and Mikes' great grandparents.
See it at :
http://members.iinet.net.au/~ericah/catleypics.html
Anyone wishing to send more photos please do so. I would like to
re-organise it so it is easier to see all at once but since I want to
include Shabden this time I have not done much work on Anne's picture yet.
Cheers.......... Erica
PS : Does anyone own John CATLEY BA 1634 who graduated from Cambridge
University, having gone there as a Sizar (subsidised student doing some
work to repay his food, keep and study in those days - these days it would
be a Bursary or somesuch). I found this years ago before the
vultures
got hold of the Alumni records, though they are still available in
book
form in big libraries. ... E
-
mailto:erica@hillsperth.com
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