Yes, honest sons and daughters of the soil by all accounts, unless that is,
you believe in the stories that come from numerous sources within Cat*ley
families about name changes due to sheep rustling activities!
Not quite so exciting as Corsairs or maybe Knights Templars but a bit "more
down to earth" Lyn.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: <landairwater(a)xnet.co.nz
To: <CATLEY-L(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: [CAT...] Ernest Catley
Thanks for further thoughts Tim. Actually I am delighted to find so
many
agricultural labourers in the background, being sort of one myself and
regarding them as probably having been honest people who didn't grind
the faces
of the poor in the dust...!
LLM
Quoting Tim Cattley <timjhcat(a)tiscali.co.uk>:
> Hello Lyn,
> Thanks for including your first name, it was getting a
bit impersonal
just
> addressing LLM.
> Caute non Astute can in my book be interpreted in a variety of words and
> "cut yourself off from unwise things" sounds as good as any to me.
Another
> would be possibly "caution without cunning".
> With so many listers monitoring this site, I feel certain that it is
just a
> matter of time before some more learned types come back with a
more
> scholarly appreciation!
> There are a couple of family narrative accounts
concerning individuals
going
> out to Russia and joining both family and Partnership businesses
there.
St
> Petersburg for example had quite a large population of western
European
> families engaged in Trade and this was certainly not confined to the
Brits
> by any means.
> Please do not get "excited" by the crest/motto
situation as I stress
again
> that in our case it was totally unofficial and NOT GRANTED by
the
College of
> Heralds but probably "self awarded" in the early
1800's at a guess.
> The idea that some ancestors were Knights Templars or
whatever, is an
> exciting one but to base it on the existence of an anchor is pushing
things
> just a little too far given that it looks pretty much certain
that all
> Cat*leys from whatever geographical area within England all started off
as
> agricultural labourers.
> Some of us are fortunate to have a direct line of
research back to circa
> 1600 or thereabouts and as more people manage to piece their history
> together as well, the more it confirms that all Catleys were humble sons
of
> the soil.
> The only other evidence that I know of concerning the
name that
pre-dates
> early Parish Records is of course that of the Gilbertine
Monastic
settlement
> in Lincs (founded 1143) and some Muster Rolls from the 14th
Century.
> Sorry to put a dampener on your lines of thought.
> Regards .......... Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: L L Milnes <landairwater(a)xnet.co.nz
> To:
<CATLEY-L(a)rootsweb.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005
2:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [CAT...] Ernest Catley
>> Hi Tim,
>
>> My name is Lyn Milnes by the way.
>
>> Very interested in your comments.
>
>> Using the fourth form method of "take a wild
guess based on words like
> it",
>> maybe "Caute non Astute" might mean "cut yourself off from
stupid,
unwise
>> things"? Would be interested to hear from any people
who know the
true
>> answer.
>
>> Intrigued by your branch's Hull/Felixstowe to
Russia trade connection.
>> Maybe somewhere there is a good narrative account of it?
>
>> Or maybe - a wild guess here - the anchor signified
some were pirates?
>> Pirates operated in the Eastern Mediterranean during and after the
> Crusades.
>> Some transformed themselves later into holy warrior societies and
became
>> quite "establishment", and some still are. I
had better not name
the
>> society I am thinking of in particular, as I might offend
some on the
> List.
>
>> LLM
>
>
>> ----- Original Message
-----
>> From: "Tim Cattley" <timjhcat(a)tiscali.co.uk
>> To: <CATLEY-L(a)rootsweb.com
>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 12:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [CAT...] Ernest Catley
>
>
>> > LLM,
>>
>> > I too, did not pay
the attention to Latin that I should at school but
> from
>> > what I recall, I think the word would have been pronounced as
Catthe-ley
>> > rather than Cat-the-ley but neither has, to my mind,
any reflection
>> > whatsoever to wild cats in woods!
>> > That is precisely why I would ask interested persons if they have any
>> > access
>> > to learned Professors of Old English who can explain and confirm that
>> > Cattheley/Catley/ etc etc does have some connection with "Wild Cat
Wood"
>> > and
>> > if so, why?
>>
>> > The anchor in the
Cattley Crest:- there are no nautical types in the
> Tree
>> > concerned and so why this item was chosen is still a mystery to all
of
> us,
>> > unless it was to do with the fact that many members travelled on a
> regular
>> > basis from the UK to Russia on business from ports such as Hull and
>> > Felixstowe via the Baltic. Maybe they got so sick of merchant sailing
>> > vessels as the only means of getting there that they felt like
> sailors?!"
>>
>> > As for mottoes:
Petimus Altiora I can help you with because it is my
>> > branches = "we seek high things" but as for Caute non Astute, I
know
not
>> > and
>> > leave it to you or other scholars to come back to me with an answer?
>>
>> > No symbolism known re
Cattheley Priory seal and the archway. The
artwork
>> > is
>> > very basic as you would expect and no stonework depicted that I know
of.
>> > So
>> > again, just as for the Catley name, there is basic research work to
be
>> > done
>> > on origins of the Seal and the Priory.
>>
>> > Regards Tim
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: L L Milnes <landairwater(a)xnet.co.nz
>>
> To: <CATLEY-L(a)rootsweb.com
>> > Sent: Wednesday,
March 09, 2005 1:46 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [CAT...] Ernest Catley
>>
>>
>> >> I love the spelling Cattheley, cat-the-ley.
Very elegant and
reflects
>> > the
>> >> wild cats in the wood so nicely. A lovely image.
>> >
>> >> More great
information Tim, thanks.
>> >
>> >> Do you know what
the first and third mottoes mean? They are both
new
> to
>> >> me, and I spent a lot of time gazing out the window in Latin class.
>> >
>> >> And there seem to
be a lot of anchors. Do people on the list know
if
> a
>> >> sea-going connection?
>> >
>> >> Any symbolic
significance in the stone archway? For example,
arches
>> > built
>> >> with keystones were designed by the Romans, that sort of thing.
>> >
>> >> LLM
>> >
>> >
>> >> >>Tim Cattley wrote:
>> >
>> >> ....Having said
that, my family crest is depicted on Ericas web
site,
> non
>> >> Granted and certainly from "Trade".
>> >
>> >> It is the cat
rampant with his front paws on the crossbar of a
vertical
>> >> anchor. There are three mottos associated with it
and it depends to
> which
>> >> sub branch one belongs as to which is used.
>> >> 1. Caute non Astute
>> >> 2. J'espere.
>> >> 3. Petimus Altiora.
>> >
>> >> This is the most
commonly come across Cattley Crest version although
>> >> there
>> >> is another not associated with our Tree and this comprises an
armoured
>> >> mailed fist holding a scroll with five scallop
shells and also use
the
>> > motto
>> >> J'espere.
>> >
>> >> As for the
Cattheley Priory seal in the British Library, I have not
>> > enquired
>> >> of them if an IT transmittable image has been made from the sulpher
> cast
>> > but
>> >> from the B.L. description given to me, it consists of The Virgin
seated
>> >> in
>> > a
>> >> stone archway with the infant Jesus on her lap....
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ==== CATLEY Mailing List ====
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>> >>
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>> >
>> >>
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>>
>>
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>> >
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