Hello Glynis,
Thank you for forwarding my query on to your nephew and what an interesting
reply ..... please thank him for me.
From his comments (and supporting notes from Anthony) it looks pretty
clear
to me that Charles is incorrectly titled in The Commonwealth War Graves
Commission Casualty List and to have him just listed as gunner does not
befit his standing as Warrant Officer rank.
I think this needs an attempt to remedy the matter.
Whilst not relevant to the question of Charles but being ever curious as I
am, would you please ask your nephew if he can confirm that by WW1 all gun
crews were members of the RMA (Blue marines) both main armament and also
secondary (smaller caliber)guns and would this have held good for even small
war ships such as Torpedo Boat Destroyers ( Destroyers) with just four to
four point seven inch armament?
Also would I be correct in thinking that in Nelsons days where gun crews
each had a Gun Captain eg HMS Victory as a "first rate" of 104 guns would
thus have some 52 gun captains (one crew manning either the port or
starboard gun on the same gun deck depending on which side of the ship was
engaged) but by the time of turreted breach loading shell firing guns and
the consequent reduction in gun numbers but technically much more
complicated, the old gun captain post had given way to a Warranted officer
position?
Many thanks
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:catley-bounces@rootsweb.com]On
Behalf Of Glynis Brown
Sent: 20 August 2008 15:13
To: Catley List
Subject: [CATLEY] Charles Catley kia HMS Queen Mary, Jutland 1916.
Hi Tim:
I forwarded your query to my nephew who has studied Military history
thinking he might be able to help and sure enough here is his reply:-
The question is a good one (especially at 6:30 in the morning) - what is
the difference between a Gunner - Royal Marines and Royal Marines Gunner?
Your chap has it exactly correct about the difference between the Royal
Marine Artillery (RMA - "Blue Marines") and the Royal Marines Light Infantry
(RMLI - "Red Marines"), and since the Royal Marines are descended from a
Regiment of Foot (the Duke of York and Albany's Maritime Regiment of Foot no
less) they will tend to use Army terminology for their ranks (both
commissioned and non-commissioned) as such when the RMA was created the
junior enlisted rank followed RA practise and was "Gunner" rather than
"Private" (or "Marine").
The confusion arises when you get into the Gap between commissioned and
non-commissioned ranks - on board ships (from the very early days) there
were a number of technical posts that were filled by professionals who
whilst not commissioned officers were essential to the running of the ship -
such as the Master, Surgeon, Purser, Botswain and (wait for it) Gunner.
These posts were officially appointed ("Warranted") by the Admiralty and
were known as Warrant Officers.
By the time of the First World War there were a much greater number of these
Warrant Officers (such as the technical officers responsible for Telegraphy
and ships Electrical Systems) and you had a number of different grades. Our
Mr Catley would have been a senior engineering officer responsible for the
Heavy Guns manned by the Royal Marines aboard ship and would have supervised
everything to do with the maintenance &c. of those guns. As such it was a
reasonably senior, and highly responsible post and the website was right to
list him up with the officers.
Hope this helps,
David
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