Morning Anthony,
As is so often the case, I am yet again very grateful for your time and
willing assistance in research, in this case Robert William Catley/Cattley b
3/4 1873 Scarborough.
When I first raised the subject of Robert, it was as a question to John+Liz
asking for confirmation as to whether or not this man was a member of the
William Catley of Kirton-in-Lindsey family tree or not, as the data I have
on it is sketchy and does not sit properly against some of the GRO bmd's.
In the meantime you have unearthed Robert's fascinating and long military
career and given me the leads I needed to positively identify him as a
William of Kirton tree member, thank you.
John :-
Have you found your original Legacy copy of the tree or have you yet written
up another version? My notes from your original copy compared with the
evidence Anthony has unearthed suggest that things are not quite right re
the marriage of Robert William to Mary Jane Watson and the number of
children produced.
Like Anthony, I note that William's son Robert Watson (Newmarch) Catley may
well have married in Dover in 1928 but there is nothing shown on the
original work.
Maybe Liz has got all this in the bag but nothing heard from either of you.
Cheers
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Private Robert William Cattley
Tim:
To summarize our off list exchanges for the benefit of listers, the
evidence linking this soldier to Thomas Newmarch Catley/Cattley is (1)
1881 census of Nether Hallam (RG 11/4626) where he is shown as the
latter's son Robert W aged 7; (2) Scarborough birthplace in this census
and service records; (3) father's name Thomas in service records; (4)
profession dentist's assistant given when transferred to the reserve after
first period of service is the same as that of Thomas. Anyone wishing to
check is advised to use the Pension Series.
He married Mary Jane Watson (not Mary Ann) August 1897 at Scarborough.
They had one son Robert Watson Cattley born August 1899. My previous
assertion about additional children was in error. Wife and son are found
in the 1901 and 1911 census of Ireland, where Robert was with the
Connaught Rangers.
With regard to the son, Cattley data base shows Robert Watson Cattley died
aged 84 Mar Q 1973 Dover. He may therefore be the Robert W Cattley who
married Elizabeth E Bennett Dec Q 1928 Dover 2a 2910. I can find no
children of this marriage. There could have been a later marriage to
Florence E Fellows Jun Q 1951 Dover 5b 990.
With regard to siblings, some of them well researched by listers, the 1881
Census has Thomas N, Mary E, Edith and William.
Anthony
________________________________
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com on behalf of Tim Cattley
Sent: Sun 04-10-2009 00:36
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Private Robert William Cattley
Anthony,
I think that both John in Telford and Liz must both be away from their
pc's
because either otherwise should have already interjected re our
correspondence.
It was your information re Dentists Assistant and a Thomas, birth in 4/4
1853 that did it for me, in that this is a positive identification that
the
Robert William Cattley in question was indeed a member of the William
Catley
of Kirton in Lindsey (Lincolnshire) Tree.
John once did send me a Legacy copy of his tree but due to pc problems it
was lost and not replaced (yet........... John hint hint?) but not before
I
had made some excel notes on that trees bare bones which is all I have
left
to work with but without dates of bmd.
I have Thomas marrying twice: 1. Elizabeth ? Ring and 2. Charlotte C.
Children from whichever marriages being :-
Robert William
Thomas Newmarch
Mary.E
Edith
Miriam
Robert William is shown as marrying a Mary Ann Watson, not a Jane Watson
but
only one child recorded; being Robert........... no mention of
Mary/Thomas/Ada.
Of even more interest is the information that Robert Williams brother,
Thomas Newmarch is a direct ascendant to Dave M (Lister) being his G Gt Gt
Grandfather.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Private Robert William Cattley
> Tim
>
> A curious detail was that Robert enlisted as a labourer but when he went
> into the reserve gave his profession as dentist's assistant. It hardly
> seemed worth mentioning until I found a Thomas W Cattley, 27, dentist's
> assistant with son Robert W aged 7 in the 1881 census. They were then
> living at Nether Hallam, but Father and Son were born Scarborough as was
> Wife Charlotte C, 24. This puts Robert's birth at about 1874 and does not
> help us much with FreeBMD, although there is a matching birth for Thomas
> in Dec Q 1853. Thomas Cattley right age and birthplace and dentist is
> found at Hackney in 1901 with new wife Elizabeth and stepchildren though
> also a daughter Charlotte Cattley. Middle initial probably not W but
> surely this is the same bod. He almost gets away from us in 1891 when
> living in Newington as a boarder with a single T, but is a dentist all
> right and already a widower.
>
> Anthony
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com on behalf of Tim Cattley
> Sent: Sat 03-10-2009 19:04
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Private Robert William Cattley
>
>
>
> Good afternoon Anthony,
>
> Robert William looks to have had an interesting and varied career in the
> British Army and nearly 31 years service must surely be getting on for a
> record?
>
> I still can not find any ref to his birth, despite having widened my
> search
> years and also his date/year of death has eluded me as well. There is a
> death for a Robert W Cattley in 1952 but as his age is given as 79 it
> would
> suggest a birth in 1873 which would not fit well with Robert Williams
> recruitment in 1884!
>
> The supposition that the remaining three children were born in Ireland
> looks
> very likely, given Roberts period of service with the Cannaught Rangers
> but
> again my trawls through Family Search Labs has failed to make any headway
> in
> this direction.
>
> Reference to Roberts father being a Thomas Catley, resident of Lewisham
> :-
> of course being a resident does not mean he was born there so it neither
> helps nor hinders. I am hopeful that Liz may have a take on all this ;
> she
> has had dealings with East Yorkshire searches, Ireland and the London
> area
> and may be able to offer some ideas.
>
> Regards
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 7:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Private Robert William Cattley
>
>
>> Tim:
>> There is a George William Catley from St Marys, Scarborough, whose
>> documents are among "selected service records" from the Royal Hospital
>> available for download at the National Archives. He is probably the
>> fellow
>> you are thinking of. (The majority of Chelsea pensioners did not live at
>> the institution in Chelsea,)
>> With regard to Robert William Cattley, anyone familiar with naval and
>> military records will know that boys frequently lied about their age
>> when
>> enlisting so you may be relying too strongly on your calculation of the
>> birth date. Hopefully one of the listers you mention will look at the
>> many
>> pages on Ancestry and try to make sense of them. To my eyes the single
>> sheet about the Connaught Rangers in the Burnt Series did not fit well
>> with the rest. However there are further documents under Pensions
>> Records
>> that tell a more coherent story. They show he joined the Liverpool
>> Regiment in 1889 for 7 years plus 5 in the reserve. He was recalled from
>> the reserve to the Liverpool Regiment (in 1899?) and transferred to the
>> Connaught Rangers in 1902. He remained with them until transferred to
>> the
>> Employment Company Cork in 1917. Later in the war he seems to be drawing
>> pension while still serving (letter from Royal Chelsea Hospital to the
>> Labour Corps). There are references along the way t
>> o!
>> service in Bermuda, Halifax Nova Scotia, Barbados, Malta and in the
>> South
>> African Campaign. When finally discharged 17 April 1920 he had served a
>> total of 30 years 291 days. The MOP set mentions only the wife and son
>> Robert. The other names are from a sheet in the Burnt Series. It is
>> clear
>> that his wife lived with the Corps and I wonder if the other kids were
>> born in Ireland? One paper refers to his father Thos Catley resident in
>> Lewisham, Kent. Does that help or merely confuse you further? Certainly
>> the most intriguing military history I have looked at so you just have
>> to
>> nail him to a tree!
>> Anthony
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com on behalf of Tim Cattley
>> Sent: Sat 03-10-2009 00:23
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com 1902.
>> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Private Robert William Cattley
>>
>>
>>
>> Evening Anthony,
>>
>> Most helpful indeed; thank's. Your info proves I think, that this
>> Robert
>> William is nothing to do with that of the Willian of Kirton tree but as
>> always, opens up more questions when previous ones are answered!
>>>From your data, it looks as if the Robert William in question was born
>>>about
>> 1866 but I have failed to find a Robert William Cattleys birth for that
>> year
>> or each year either side of it. There is a Robert Cattley for 1866 and
>> although the location was Malton (and thus not that far from
>> Scarborough)
>> he
>> is known to belong to the Normanton tree and not the Robert I seek.
>> I recall ref's to a Chelsea Pensioner Cattley from Scarborough and think
>> you
>> are right in that it was Robert Wm.
>> Can see a ref to the birth of a very predictable Robert Watson Cattley,
>> 3/4
>> 1899 Scarborough but can not identify Mary/Thomas/Ada from my GRO lists.
>> The Service Records for one Robert William seem to bounce about a bit in
>> a
>> pot mess but the ref you have located re Connaught Rangers must surely
>> indicate he is one and the same person I seek.
>> There are few Listers who are interested in Yorkshire Cat*leys, only
>> Erica.
>> Liz. Kay. Peter & self that I know of.
>> Think that this Robert William is part of an as yet, unresolved tree.
>> Liz may have something on R.W.C. ............. Liz??
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
>> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>; "catley @rootsweb"
<catley(a)rootsweb.com>
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 7:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Private Robert William Cattley
>>
>>
>>> Tim: There are Service Records for a Robert William Cattley born
>>> Scarborough serving with the The King's Liverpool and East Kent
>>> Regiments
>>> who seems to have enlisted for 7 or 12 years 1 July 1884 aged 18,
>>> extended his service to complete 21 years 1 November 1900 and was still
>>> serving as lance sergeant (with the Labour Corps?) on an extended
>>> engagement in a memo dated 13 September 1918. He had served in Bermuda
>>> and
>>> in the South African War. In one document from 30 June 1910 he is with
>>> the
>>> Connaught Rangers. There is a marriage to Jane Watson at Scarborough 9
>>> August 1897 and kids Robert, Mary, Thomas and Ada. Possibly he was a
>>> Chelsea Pensioner. Does any of this fit? It looks a right mess to me.
>>> Perhaps someone with closer knowledge of the family should check if
>>> this
>>> is one person or several! Anthony
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com on behalf of Tim Cattley
>>> Sent: Fri 02-10-2009 16:23
>>> To: catley @rootsweb
>>> Subject: [CATLEY] Private Robert William Cattley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Liz + John :
>>>
>>> On your William Catley of Kirton tree, you have a Robert William b 3/4
>>> 1873 Scarborough reg dist, son of Thomas Newmarsh & Charlotte Gibson.
>>>
>>> WW1 ...........1914-1918 ....... The Irish Regiment, The Connact
>>> Rangers
>>> had a Private Robert William Cattley, age 40 in the 3rd Btn I think.
>>>
>>> Your Robert would look to fit age-wise but there is an obvious name
>>> spelling difference.
>>>
>>> Do you know if your R.W.C was in the Connact Rangers?
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
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