Hi Andrew,
I also picked up on this and wondered if they where related. Sometimes they
couldn't afford to have a child baptized and often the females where not
baptized at all. I have in my tree cases of siblings all been baptized
together regardless of age, so why not cousins. Some churches often insisted
that a child had to be baptized in order for them to get married in church.
Have you found a marriage for Hannah. I also have recorded another Hannah
bap 12/1/1762 daughter of Joshua and Hannah.
Liz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Hayes" <HayesARM(a)CityBathColl.ac.uk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 69
Last night I had another look at the progeny of Joshua and Hannah
Catley. I had suspected that my James might fit in here as Joshua and
Hannah had sons called George and Francis, as did "James and Mary".
First I looked at the marriages, to see if James might have been a
witness. No luck.
But then I browsed the Catley Database and noticed that a Hannah Catley,
aged 19, was baptised on the same day as my ancestress Elisabeth
(daughter of "James and Mary"), namely 21st March 1795. Hannah's age
makes it highly likely that she was the daughter of Joshua and Hannah.
Now when I sang in the church choir at MSN baptisms tended to be a
family affair, organised on an individual basis. Does anyone know what
the practice was in the 18th Century? If Hannah was not baptised until
such an advanced age maybe the same was true of James, or else he may
not have been baptised at all, or preferred the Non-conformist
persuasion. What do people think? Can we legitimately graft James onto
the Emery tree?
Regards
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:catley-bounces@rootsweb.com]
On Behalf Of catley-request(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: 12 May 2011 08:36
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 69
Today's Topics:
1. Re: CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 66 (Andrew Hayes)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 08:35:40 +0100
From: "Andrew Hayes" <HayesARM(a)CityBathColl.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 66
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID:
<E457292F1AF0CA4A8A44CDAD78B063ED02418FF7(a)greip.CityBathColl.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Welton has never had its own church, the parish has always been that of
Midsomer Norton. I do not think that people from Welton would be likely
to be baptised at Radstock. (In the late nineteenth century some of my
ancestors from Welton were baptised at the newly erected church at
Clandown.) In any case I understand that the parish registers for
Radstock are only extant from a date after the proposed Emery/Thomas
split. At present the much of the land around Welton is part of the
Duchy of Cornwall, as it has been since medieval times. In contrast the
church was in the gift of Christchurch Oxford, and before that of Merton
Abbey. From the local press I am aware that a local historian has been
looking at the medieval history of our town. I'll see if I can find out
her email and ask if she has come across any surviving manorial records.
Regards
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:catley-bounces@rootsweb.com]
On Behalf Of catley-request(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: 11 May 2011 19:36
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 66
Today's Topics:
1. Re: CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 64 (Nigel Butterfield)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 19:35:25 +0100
From: "Nigel Butterfield" <nigelb(a)bulrush.me.uk>
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 64
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <161124307CF54B9A91D895638F669AFD@NigelTOSH>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Liz- Where did Welton come into this. Welton is part of Midsomer
Norton,
on the road out to Norton-Radstock. It does not have its own church and
I
assume it still falls within the parish of St John the Baptist in
Midsomer
Norton. On the othe hand , if the family were living at Welton, could
baptisms have been at the Radstock church - St Nicholas.
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: lizcordingley
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:32 PM
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 64
Hi Andrew,
Well I'm glad I have the right trees in the correct place. I'm still
working
on updating my paper records onto the laptop.
Looking at the Emery tree which I am also transferring, I still believe
that
Emery and Thomas b 1701 Welton are brothers. I believe Welton is the
place
to look.
Regards
Liz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Hayes" <HayesARM(a)CityBathColl.ac.uk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 64
> This has confirmed what I suspected.
> If anyone is interested I can supply photos of the grave of James
Catley
> the yeoman (so definitely not my ancestor) at Chilcompton churchyard,
> together with a transcript as the inscription is not so easy to read
in
> places. It definitely records his Mary as daughter of Robert Townsend
> Esq of Pilton.
>
> I did try to join the Chewton group, but the computer did not seem to
> co-operate, tracking down a Robert Ford who from his age on the 1841
> census, should have been born there c1788. Unfortunately the in-line
> parish clerk could not track him down. So if anyone is also
researching
> Fords from Chewton Mendip.....
> Regards
> Andrew
>
> Regards
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:catley-bounces@rootsweb.com]
> On Behalf Of catley-request(a)rootsweb.com
> Sent: 11 May 2011 08:01
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 64
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. The James Catleys of Midsomer Norton (Nigel Butterfield)
> 2. Re: The James Catleys of Midsomer Norton (lizcordingley)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 20:44:24 +0100
> From: "Nigel Butterfield" <nigelb(a)bulrush.me.uk>
> Subject: [CATLEY] The James Catleys of Midsomer Norton
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Message-ID: <949F07EB48784F7DAC9D7979933B3761@NigelTOSH>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> Hi- This is aimed at those interested in the Thomas Catley of MSN
tree-
> You will recall a string of emails a month or so ago on the list
> concerning Thomas Catley of MSN his wife Betty Kelson son James
Catley
> and of marriages to two Marys ? the conversation involved amongst
> others Liz, Tim, and Andrew Hayes, and made reference to Glynis
Brown?s
> MSM Trees. I recall there was the hint of some uncertainty over parts
> of the Thomas tree.
> Anyway- by a complete co-incidence I recently received another email
> about the same family on another list, chewton(a)yahoogroups.com , to
> which I belong. This email ? A tale of Two Catleys , dated 7th May,
> which appears below, was from Philip Stephens who is a direct
descendant
> of the Thomas Catley line through his 2x Great Grandfather Aubrey
> Catley. His submission is self explanatory.
>
> I made contact with Philip sending him a copy of Glynis?s Thomas
Catley
> of MSN tree. I attach our exchange of emails ? as you will see from
> Philip comments, he feels that there are serious flaws in our tree and
> has asked me to pass on his submission. I cannot comment on whether he
> is correct or not, apart from anything else it is not the MSN branch I
> have been following, but he does seem to have done his research. If he
> is correct there is clearly some sorting out to do!!
>
> Regards
>
> Nigel
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Philip Stephens
> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 5:46 PM
> To: nigelb(a)bulrush.me.uk
> Subject: A Tale of Two Catleys
>
> Hi Nigel
>
> Thanks for your interesting reply and the attached files. The photos
are
> excellent. My great grandfather, Aubrey William James Catley, was the
> contractor for the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel built in 1857. It was in
> this building some 30 years later that his son William Aubrey, my
> grandfather, met one of the daughters of another great grandfather Rev
> Henry Parkes!
> The Thomas Catley tree underlines the point I was making in my
> submission. People have got very confused about the two James Catleys.
> The miner b1864 has been assigned incorrectly as the son of Thomas
> Catley and Betty Kelson. Betty died seven years before this James was
> born. It is James, the yeoman from Chilcompton - the one who
christened
> one of his daughters Betty Kelson Catley (clue there?), who was the
son
> of Thomas and Betty. I would be obliged if you would forward my
> submission to those interested in the badly flawed Thomas Catley of
MSN
> tree. They have some work to do to sort out the mess.
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Philip Stephens
>
>
> From: Nigel Butterfield
> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 1:05 PM
> To: philip.stephens3(a)btinternet.com
> Subject: Re: [chewton] A Tale of Two Catleys -
>
> Philip ? I am sending this off list as I don?t think you can send
> attachments via the yahoogroups site.
> My grandmother May was a Catley, from the Emery Catley of Midsomer
> Norton branch of the family. Your 2x great grandfather Aubrey was, I
> believe from a different line ? the Thomas Catley of Midsomer Norton
> tree.
>
> Ordinarily your man Aubrey would be outside my sphere of interest,
> however my wife and I were recently staying in Midsomer Norton, and I
> took the opportunity of a trip to St John the Baptist?s church, and
> graveyard, looking for all things Catley. Sadly there was not a lot
that
> was obvious except a monument to four Catleys ? Ann, Aubrey, Amelia
and
> Aubrey William James Catley. The first Aubrey died in 1874 aged 72- ie
> your ancestor. I attach a copies of a couple of photographs that I
took.
>
> I don?t know whether you are a member of the CATLEY Rootsweb list ?
but
> if are not you should sign up -
>
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hills/maillist.html
>
> In any event , if you have not done so you should visit the website
>
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hills/index.html
>
> Coincidently around the time we were in Somerset there was a string of
> emails on the list relating to the James Catley (s) and two Marys
> conundrum that you refer to in your email. Unfortunately I have not
kept
> the entire conversation but I will separately forward you the string I
> still have.
>
> Finally I also attach a copy of the Thomas Catley of Midsomer Norton
> tree currently being used by the CATLEY list ? this was compiled by
> lister Glynis Brown
>
> Yours
>
> Nigel Butterfield
>
> nigelb(a)bulrush.me.uk
>
> PS I hope you don?t mind , but I would like to post your email to the
> CATLEY list for those interested in the Thomas Catley of MSN tree ?
> please advise if this is OK
>
>
>
> From: philip393312
> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 11:44 AM
> To: chewton(a)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [chewton] A Tale of Two Catleys
>
>
> My great great grandfather is Aubrey Catley (1802-1874). He was born
in
> Chilcompton and died in Midsomer Norton - population today about
10000.
> In the nineteenth century Midsomer Norton was a mining town in the
North
> Somerset Coalfield. Chilcompton is a village a couple of miles to its
> south. From the parish records Aubrey was born on 21 June 1802 and
> baptized at St John, Chilcompton four days later, the son of James and
> Mary Catley.
> It is here that my family research faltered for a while. There is a
> wealth of family trees on Ancestry showing James Catley married not to
> one Mary but to two. One Mary was born in 1766 and died in 1803 and
the
> other was born in Pilton, Somerset in 1769. RootsWeb Somerset
Coalfield
> Connections is an interesting and generally accurate website showing,
> with references, the genealogy of families living in and around the
> Somerset Coalfields. It appears to confirm the Ancestry trees (see
> below). Yet questions formed in my mind. Why does it suggest that
James
> Catley died before 1841 and yet include him in the 1841 census as a
> 77-year old coal miner? It is possible that the first Mary did have 7
> children in as many years, but is it likely that their places of birth
> would have been (in order): Midsomer Norton, Chilcompton, Midsomer
> Norton, Chilcompton, Midsomer Norton, Chilcompton, Chilcompton. Did
the
> Catleys have two homes? Or were there two James and Mary Catleys?
> Were there marriage records for James and either of the Marys? In that
> regard I was fortunate. Although no marriage record is shown in
> RootsWeb, I found a marriage record for James Catley and Mary Townsend
> at St John the Baptist Church, Pilton on 21 Dec 1795 ? the witnesses
> were John Kelson snr and John Kelson jnr. The groom's parish was
> Chilcompton.
> Mary is found as a widow in 1841, 1851 and 1861 living in Chilcompton
> with her unmarried daughter Martha Jane Catley. Her place of birth was
> given as Pilton on the two later census forms. This suggests that the
> James Catley who lived at Chilcompton was married only once ? to Mary
> Townsend.
> The will of James Catley, made in 1830 and proved at London in 1831,
> left his estate in various proportions to his wife Mary and his seven
> surviving children: Mary Ann, James Thomas, Robert William, Aubrey,
> Martha Jane, Evan Daniel and Betty Kelson. It included his property
> called Broadway in Chilcompton and another at Welton, near Midsomer
> Norton. This James Catley was a yeoman not a coal miner.
> The coal miner James Catley lived in Midsomer Norton and was married
to
> a Mary who died aged 37 in 1803. By her he had three children:
> Elizabeth, George and Francis all baptized at Midsomer Norton. He
> remarried a few months after Mary died. His new wife was Martha Smith.
> By Martha he had Charles, Hannah, Emma, Samuel and James. In 1841
James
> was living with their daughter Emma, by then married to William
Carter.
> His wife Martha was staying with their son Samuel and his family in
> Devizes. The coal miner James Catley, aged 84, was buried at Midsomer
> Norton on 24 Oct 1848.
> Questions remain.
> 1. Thomas Catley and Betty Kelson were the parents of the yeoman James
> Catley. Who were the parents of the coal miner? From the 1841 census
he
> appears to have been born in Somerset. But there is no record of his
> baptism in the Midsomer Norton parish records.
> 2. What was the maiden name of Mary, the coal miner's first wife? (I
> have seen the name Clarke but I can find no corroboration of this.)
> 3. I have assumed that Charles, who died aged 2 in 1807 and was buried
> at Midsomer Norton was the child of James and Martha. Yet the
> transcription of the parish records gives the parents' names as James
> and Mary. All the yeoman's family appear to have been buried at
> Chilcompton. So it is unlikely that Mary Townsend was the mother of
> Charles. Is the transcription accurate?
>
> Below I reproduce the erroneous information from RootsWeb:
>  
>
> ? ID: I04283
> ? Name: James CATLEY
> ? Sex: M
> ? Birth: 1757 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
> ? Death: BEF 1841
> ? Baptism: 24 AUG 1757 Midsomer Norton, Somerset 1
> ? Note:
> The 1841 Census - Midsomer Norton Parish - 2 - Piece 0939 - Folio 33 -
> Page 11
>
> JamesCatley77Coal MinerSomerset
> WilliamCarter35ClerkSomerset
> EmmaCarter31Dress makerSomerset
> JosiahCarter 7Somerset
> WilliamCarter 1Somerset
> MariaElscott21Dress makerSomerset
>
> Father: Thomas CATLEY b: 1725 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
> Mother: Betty KELSON
>
> Marriage 1 MARY b: 1766
> Children
> 1. Elizabeth CATLEY b: 1795 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
> 2. Mary Ann CATLEY b: 1796 in Chilcompton, Somerset
> 3. George CATLEY b: 1798 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
> 4. James Thomas CATLEY b: 10 MAY 1798 in Chilcompton, Somerset
> 5. Francis CATLEY b: 1799 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
> 6. Robert William CATLEY b: 1800 in Chilcompton, Somerset
> 7. Aubrey CATLEY b: 21 JUN 1802 in Chilcompton, Somerset
>
> Marriage 2 MARY b: 1769 in Pilton, Somerset
> ? Married: AFT 1803
> Children
> 1. Charles CATLEY b: 1805 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
> 2. Martha Jane CATLEY b: 1806 in Chilcompton, Somerset
> 3. Evan Daniel CATLEY b: 5 APR 1807 in Chilcompton, Somerset
> 4. Betty CATLEY b: 25 JUL 1809 in Chilcompton, Somerset
>
> Sources:
> 1. Title: D.P.msn.2.1.1
> Text: James Catley, son of Thomas and Betty
>
> ? ID: I32518
> ? Name: James CATLEY
> ? Sex: M
> ? Birth: 1764
> ? Death: OCT 1848 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
> ? Burial: 24 OCT 1848 Midsomer Norton, Somerset 1
> ? Note:
> The 1841 Census - Midsomer Norton Parish - 2 - Piece 0939 - Folio 33 -
> Page 11
>
> JamesCatley77Coal MinerSomerset
> WilliamCarter35ClerkSomerset
> EmmaCarter31Dress makerSomerset
> JosiahCarter 7Somerset
> WilliamCarter 1Somerset
> MariaElscott21Dress makerSomerset
>
> Ancestry Hints for James CATLEY
>
> 2 possible matches found on
Ancestry.com
>
>
> Marriage 1 Martha SMITH b: 1775
> ? Married: 24 JUL 1803 in Radstock, Somerset
> Children
> 1. Hannah CATLEY b: 1808 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
> 2. Emma CATLEY b: 1810 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
> 3. Samuel CATLEY b: 1815 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
> 4. James CATLEY b: 1819 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
>
> Sources:
> 1. Title: D.P.msn.2.1.10 [Burials 1847-1865]
> Page: 6/48
> Text: James Catley - Midsomer Norton - aged 84
>
>
>
> __._,_.___
> Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New
> Topic
> Messages in this topic (1)
> Recent Activity: a.. New Members 4
> Visit Your Group
> Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use.
>
> __,_._,___
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 21:17:57 +0100
> From: "lizcordingley" <lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] The James Catleys of Midsomer Norton
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Message-ID: <037E7EE502784A5B8DAC788F43CCCAF5@AmberPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Nigel,
> I have Betty Kelson the daughter of James and Grandparents Thomas and
> Betty.
> Can you check with Phil if we have the right wife for James and that
is
> Mary
> Townsend. The children I have for them where born in Chilcompton so my
> fingers are crossed.
> Thanks
> Liz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nigel Butterfield" <nigelb(a)bulrush.me.uk>
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 8:44 PM
> Subject: [CATLEY] The James Catleys of Midsomer Norton
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi- This is aimed at those interested in the Thomas Catley of MSN
> tree-
>> You will recall a string of emails a month or so ago on the list
>> concerning Thomas Catley of MSN his wife Betty Kelson son James
> Catley
>> and of marriages to two Marys ? the conversation involved amongst
> others
>> Liz, Tim, and Andrew Hayes, and made reference to Glynis Brown?s MSM
>> Trees. I recall there was the hint of some uncertainty over parts of
> the
>> Thomas tree.
>> Anyway- by a complete co-incidence I recently received another email
> about
>> the same family on another list, chewton(a)yahoogroups.com , to which I
>> belong. This email ? A tale of Two Catleys , dated 7th May, which
> appears
>> below, was from Philip Stephens who is a direct descendant of the
> Thomas
>> Catley line through his 2x Great Grandfather Aubrey Catley. His
> submission
>> is self explanatory.
>>
>> I made contact with Philip sending him a copy of Glynis?s Thomas
> Catley of
>> MSN tree. I attach our exchange of emails ? as you will see from
> Philip
>> comments, he feels that there are serious flaws in our tree and has
> asked
>> me to pass on his submission. I cannot comment on whether he is
> correct or
>> not, apart from anything else it is not the MSN branch I have been
>> following, but he does seem to have done his research. If he is
> correct
>> there is clearly some sorting out to do!!
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Philip Stephens
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 5:46 PM
>> To: nigelb(a)bulrush.me.uk
>> Subject: A Tale of Two Catleys
>>
>> Hi Nigel
>>
>> Thanks for your interesting reply and the attached files. The photos
> are
>> excellent. My great grandfather, Aubrey William James Catley, was the
>> contractor for the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel built in 1857. It was in
> this
>> building some 30 years later that his son William Aubrey, my
> grandfather,
>> met one of the daughters of another great grandfather Rev Henry
> Parkes!
>> The Thomas Catley tree underlines the point I was making in my
> submission.
>> People have got very confused about the two James Catleys. The miner
> b1864
>> has been assigned incorrectly as the son of Thomas Catley and Betty
>> Kelson. Betty died seven years before this James was born. It is
> James,
>> the yeoman from Chilcompton - the one who christened one of his
> daughters
>> Betty Kelson Catley (clue there?), who was the son of Thomas and
> Betty. I
>> would be obliged if you would forward my submission to those
> interested in
>> the badly flawed Thomas Catley of MSN tree. They have some work to do
> to
>> sort out the mess.
>>
>> --
>> Regards
>>
>> Philip Stephens
>>
>>
>> From: Nigel Butterfield
>> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 1:05 PM
>> To: philip.stephens3(a)btinternet.com
>> Subject: Re: [chewton] A Tale of Two Catleys -
>>
>> Philip ? I am sending this off list as I don?t think you can send
>> attachments via the yahoogroups site.
>> My grandmother May was a Catley, from the Emery Catley of Midsomer
> Norton
>> branch of the family. Your 2x great grandfather Aubrey was, I believe
> from
>> a different line ? the Thomas Catley of Midsomer Norton tree.
>>
>> Ordinarily your man Aubrey would be outside my sphere of interest,
> however
>> my wife and I were recently staying in Midsomer Norton, and I took
> the
>> opportunity of a trip to St John the Baptist?s church, and graveyard,
>> looking for all things Catley. Sadly there was not a lot that was
> obvious
>> except a monument to four Catleys ? Ann, Aubrey, Amelia and Aubrey
> William
>> James Catley. The first Aubrey died in 1874 aged 72- ie your
ancestor.
> I
>> attach a copies of a couple of photographs that I took.
>>
>> I don?t know whether you are a member of the CATLEY Rootsweb list ?
> but if
>> are not you should sign up -
>>
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hills/maillist.html
>>
>> In any event , if you have not done so you should visit the website
>>
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hills/index.html
>>
>> Coincidently around the time we were in Somerset there was a string
of
>
>> emails on the list relating to the James Catley (s) and two Marys
>> conundrum that you refer to in your email. Unfortunately I have not
> kept
>> the entire conversation but I will separately forward you the string
I
>
>> still have.
>>
>> Finally I also attach a copy of the Thomas Catley of Midsomer Norton
> tree
>> currently being used by the CATLEY list ? this was compiled by lister
>> Glynis Brown
>>
>> Yours
>>
>> Nigel Butterfield
>>
>> nigelb(a)bulrush.me.uk
>>
>> PS I hope you don?t mind , but I would like to post your email to the
>> CATLEY list for those interested in the Thomas Catley of MSN tree ?
>> please advise if this is OK
>>
>>
>>
>> From: philip393312
>> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 11:44 AM
>> To: chewton(a)yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [chewton] A Tale of Two Catleys
>>
>>
>> My great great grandfather is Aubrey Catley (1802-1874). He was born
> in
>> Chilcompton and died in Midsomer Norton - population today about
> 10000. In
>> the nineteenth century Midsomer Norton was a mining town in the North
>> Somerset Coalfield. Chilcompton is a village a couple of miles to its
>> south. From the parish records Aubrey was born on 21 June 1802 and
>> baptized at St John, Chilcompton four days later, the son of James
and
>
>> Mary Catley.
>> It is here that my family research faltered for a while. There is a
> wealth
>> of family trees on Ancestry showing James Catley married not to one
> Mary
>> but to two. One Mary was born in 1766 and died in 1803 and the other
> was
>> born in Pilton, Somerset in 1769. RootsWeb Somerset Coalfield
> Connections
>> is an interesting and generally accurate website showing, with
> references,
>> the genealogy of families living in and around the Somerset
> Coalfields. It
>> appears to confirm the Ancestry trees (see below). Yet questions
> formed in
>> my mind. Why does it suggest that James Catley died before 1841 and
> yet
>> include him in the 1841 census as a 77-year old coal miner? It is
> possible
>> that the first Mary did have 7 children in as many years, but is it
> likely
>> that their places of birth would have been (in order): Midsomer
> Norton,
>> Chilcompton, Midsomer Norton, Chilcompton, Midsomer Norton,
> Chilcompton,
>> Chilcompton. Did the Catleys have two homes? Or were there two James
> and
>> Mary Catleys?
>> Were there marriage records for James and either of the Marys? In
that
>
>> regard I was fortunate. Although no marriage record is shown in
> RootsWeb,
>> I found a marriage record for James Catley and Mary Townsend at St
> John
>> the Baptist Church, Pilton on 21 Dec 1795 ? the witnesses were John
> Kelson
>> snr and John Kelson jnr. The groom's parish was Chilcompton.
>> Mary is found as a widow in 1841, 1851 and 1861 living in Chilcompton
> with
>> her unmarried daughter Martha Jane Catley. Her place of birth was
> given as
>> Pilton on the two later census forms. This suggests that the James
> Catley
>> who lived at Chilcompton was married only once ? to Mary Townsend.
>> The will of James Catley, made in 1830 and proved at London in 1831,
> left
>> his estate in various proportions to his wife Mary and his seven
> surviving
>> children: Mary Ann, James Thomas, Robert William, Aubrey, Martha
Jane,
>
>> Evan Daniel and Betty Kelson. It included his property called
Broadway
> in
>> Chilcompton and another at Welton, near Midsomer Norton. This James
> Catley
>> was a yeoman not a coal miner.
>> The coal miner James Catley lived in Midsomer Norton and was married
> to a
>> Mary who died aged 37 in 1803. By her he had three children:
> Elizabeth,
>> George and Francis all baptized at Midsomer Norton. He remarried a
few
>
>> months after Mary died. His new wife was Martha Smith. By Martha he
> had
>> Charles, Hannah, Emma, Samuel and James. In 1841 James was living
with
>
>> their daughter Emma, by then married to William Carter. His wife
> Martha
>> was staying with their son Samuel and his family in Devizes. The coal
>> miner James Catley, aged 84, was buried at Midsomer Norton on 24 Oct
> 1848.
>> Questions remain.
>> 1. Thomas Catley and Betty Kelson were the parents of the yeoman
James
>
>> Catley. Who were the parents of the coal miner? From the 1841 census
> he
>> appears to have been born in Somerset. But there is no record of his
>> baptism in the Midsomer Norton parish records.
>> 2. What was the maiden name of Mary, the coal miner's first wife? (I
> have
>> seen the name Clarke but I can find no corroboration of this.)
>> 3. I have assumed that Charles, who died aged 2 in 1807 and was
buried
> at
>> Midsomer Norton was the child of James and Martha. Yet the
> transcription
>> of the parish records gives the parents' names as James and Mary. All
> the
>> yeoman's family appear to have been buried at Chilcompton. So it is
>> unlikely that Mary Townsend was the mother of Charles. Is the
>> transcription accurate?
>>
>> Below I reproduce the erroneous information from RootsWeb:
>>  
>>
>> ? ID: I04283
>> ? Name: James CATLEY
>> ? Sex: M
>> ? Birth: 1757 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
>> ? Death: BEF 1841
>> ? Baptism: 24 AUG 1757 Midsomer Norton, Somerset 1
>> ? Note:
>> The 1841 Census - Midsomer Norton Parish - 2 - Piece 0939 - Folio 33
-
>
>> Page 11
>>
>> JamesCatley77Coal MinerSomerset
>> WilliamCarter35ClerkSomerset
>> EmmaCarter31Dress makerSomerset
>> JosiahCarter 7Somerset
>> WilliamCarter 1Somerset
>> MariaElscott21Dress makerSomerset
>>
>> Father: Thomas CATLEY b: 1725 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
>> Mother: Betty KELSON
>>
>> Marriage 1 MARY b: 1766
>> Children
>> 1. Elizabeth CATLEY b: 1795 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
>> 2. Mary Ann CATLEY b: 1796 in Chilcompton, Somerset
>> 3. George CATLEY b: 1798 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
>> 4. James Thomas CATLEY b: 10 MAY 1798 in Chilcompton, Somerset
>> 5. Francis CATLEY b: 1799 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
>> 6. Robert William CATLEY b: 1800 in Chilcompton, Somerset
>> 7. Aubrey CATLEY b: 21 JUN 1802 in Chilcompton, Somerset
>>
>> Marriage 2 MARY b: 1769 in Pilton, Somerset
>> ? Married: AFT 1803
>> Children
>> 1. Charles CATLEY b: 1805 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
>> 2. Martha Jane CATLEY b: 1806 in Chilcompton, Somerset
>> 3. Evan Daniel CATLEY b: 5 APR 1807 in Chilcompton, Somerset
>> 4. Betty CATLEY b: 25 JUL 1809 in Chilcompton, Somerset
>>
>> Sources:
>> 1. Title: D.P.msn.2.1.1
>> Text: James Catley, son of Thomas and Betty
>>
>> ? ID: I32518
>> ? Name: James CATLEY
>> ? Sex: M
>> ? Birth: 1764
>> ? Death: OCT 1848 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
>> ? Burial: 24 OCT 1848 Midsomer Norton, Somerset 1
>> ? Note:
>> The 1841 Census - Midsomer Norton Parish - 2 - Piece 0939 - Folio 33
-
>
>> Page 11
>>
>> JamesCatley77Coal MinerSomerset
>> WilliamCarter35ClerkSomerset
>> EmmaCarter31Dress makerSomerset
>> JosiahCarter 7Somerset
>> WilliamCarter 1Somerset
>> MariaElscott21Dress makerSomerset
>>
>> Ancestry Hints for James CATLEY
>>
>> 2 possible matches found on
Ancestry.com
>>
>>
>> Marriage 1 Martha SMITH b: 1775
>> ? Married: 24 JUL 1803 in Radstock, Somerset
>> Children
>> 1. Hannah CATLEY b: 1808 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
>> 2. Emma CATLEY b: 1810 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
>> 3. Samuel CATLEY b: 1815 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
>> 4. James CATLEY b: 1819 in Midsomer Norton, Somerset
>>
>> Sources:
>> 1. Title: D.P.msn.2.1.10 [Burials 1847-1865]
>> Page: 6/48
>> Text: James Catley - Midsomer Norton - aged 84
>>
>>
>>
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