I can only assume that Buckland parish had some special significance for the
Jacksons if the marriage of their daughter to James Catline had the banns
read there but I wonder why they duplicated Alice's baptism there as well?
Am assuming that this is not an IGI transcript error of course!
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Meredith" <david.meredith(a)live.co.uk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] James Catline and Alice Jackson marriage
Therfield,Herts.
I have come across an 18C IGI-duplicate-marriage-entry in
Lincolnshire
which turned out to be the entry from the register where the service was
performed, the other being sourced from a Banns entry made in the second
parish.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Cattley
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:12 PM
To: catley @rootsweb
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] James Catline and Alice Jackson marriage
Therfield,Herts.
Mick/David/Liz
The proposal that "James of Barley" was infact James Catline who m Alice
Jackson 03/07/1710 in Therefield, Herts is indeed attractive as far as
name
matches and local proximity to Barley is concerned.
Note : the IGI have this betrothal recorded twice :- 1) in Therefield and
2)
in Buckland.
Buckland like Therefield is also a gnats whisker under four miles away
from
Barley.
Interestingly, the IGI have Alice Jacksons baptism also recorded twice :-
1) Therefield 14/02/1685 and 2) Buckland 14/02/1685 and in both cases her
parents are shown as Charles Jackson and Alice.
However, the name Catline may well be a primary variation of Catlin and/or
Catling and Catline in particular is to be found in early IGI records for
Blunham and Gt Barford in Bedfordshire and Ayot in Herts which are not
that
far from Barley.
I tend to lean towards Mick's view that the very early Catleys in this
region may well come from Great and Little Chishill (not forgetting
Chrishall as well) but would point out that the real Catley "hotspot" must
surely be Great Chesterford, Essex where in 1613 bapt Thomas Catley son
of
Thomas. Thomas is the first of some 19 Catley bmd events that are
recorded
between 1613 and 1700 for this parish.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Meredith" <david.meredith(a)live.co.uk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] James Catline and Alice Jackson marriage
Therfield,Herts.
> Liz, Mick.......
>
> If you go along to.....
>
>
http://www.hertsdirect.org/services/leisculture/heritage1/hals/indexes/
>
> ...... Hertfordshire Archives surname index search facility includes
> Settlement Certificates issued + Settlement Examinations together with
> 'Removals'.
>
> As you will discover there are a number of Catley and Jackson references
> but
> none that would seem applicable to James or Alice.
>
> However, I am not sure how extensive their indexing is.
>
> If I get chance this morning I will ring Hertfordshire Archives to see
> what
> the position is with surviving Marriage Licence (Bonds & Allegations)
> records.
>
> The question of 'Settlement' would usually only surface if there was any
> inkling that the 'incomer/&family' might become chargeable to the host
> parish.
>
> There were Jacksons living in Therfield though the existing
> IGI-FamilySearch
> records don't seem carry a baptism for an 'Alice'.
>
> The only Hertfordshire records I could find were:
>
> 1681 Feb 26 - Stevenage - Alice d. of George & Alice Jackson
>
> 1695 Jun 22 - Ashwell - Alice d. of Ralph & Margaret Jackson
>
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lizcordingley
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 10:48 PM
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] James Catline and Alice Jackson marriage
> Therfield,Herts.
>
> Hi Mick, David etc.
> Quick question, would there be any sort of settlement record for James if
> he
> came from a different parish into Barley. I know a lot have been
> destroyed
> or lost over the years but isn't there one from the parish they left and
> one
> from the parish they go into.
> Another quick question as an after thought!!! Could Alice Jackson have
> come
> from the parish of Therfield and James from else where, as they did tend
> to
> marry in the females parish. This could explain possibly why there are no
> other Catley's or Catlines in the time frame at Therfield.
>
> Liz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mick Catley" <catleym(a)netspeed.com.au>
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] James Catline and Alice Jackson marriage
> Therfield,Herts.
>
>
>> G'day David,
>>
>> Thank you for your comments. I accept the possibilities that you raise
>> can
>> not be discounted and I have an open mind about the possibility that
>> James
>> Catline from Therfield is indeed James Catley of Barley whom most, if
>> not
>> all the listers, believe is the first of our documented Hertfordshire
>> Catleys, with the strong possibility of links to several generations of
>> Catleys that have been documented in nearby village/towns in the
>> neighbouring counties of Cambridgeshire and Essex.
>>
>> The reason for studying the Therfield register was to look for evidence
>> that
>> the marriage of James Catline and Alice Jackson on 3 Jul 1710 was in
>> fact
>> that of James Catley and Alice (unknown) which predates by several
>> months
>> the baptism of their first recorded child in Barley. Information I was
>> seeking was whether there were Catleys or other Catlenes in the parish
>> and
>> as you suggested, whether there were subsequent records of births,
>> baptisms
>> or deaths associated with James Catline and his wife, Alice. The only
>> evidence I found were two earlier records of Catlines, and as you
>> mentioned, the baptism of Elizabeth, daughter of Tho. & Eliz. Cataline 7
>> Oct
>> 1688. These records do not support the proposal that James Catline is
>> in
>> fact the same person as James Catley of Barley.
>>
>> I lean toward Essex, possibly Great Chishall, as the birthplace of James
>> Catley of Barley as there are several records of Catleys dating back to
>> the
>> 17th century and it is even closer to Barley than is Therfield. However
>> I
>> have no sound evidence to support this view. The very early parish
>> registers which might have supporting records are generally illegible.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mick Catley
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Meredith
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 9:03 PM
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] James Catline and Alice Jackson marriage
>> Therfield,Herts.
>>
>> Hello Mick,
>>
>> Not my province but you will gather I do read the Catley postings, hence
>> this is a bit of a 'coffee-break' venture for me.
>>
>> I note that Therfield is a mere 5 miles from Barley.
>>
>> I also note that the marriage event at Therfield took place 6 months
>> before
>> the baptism of an Edward Catley, parents James and Alice, at Barley.
>>
>> Ignoring the surname variations for the present, I wonder if the Barley
>> couple chose to marry outside their parish to avoid prying eyes, that is
>> if
>> Alice of Barley was 3 months pregnant at the time?
>>
>> Of course the 'Catline' surname of the Therfield couple remains an
>> issue,
>> but it wouldn't be the first time that names were entered incorrectly in
>> parish records. Alternatively might James at Barley have started life
>> as
>> a
>> Catline, probably not.
>>
>> By the way did you find the Elizabeth Cataline, daughter of Thomas and
>> Eliza. baptized 07 Oct 1688 in Therfield?
>>
>> If the Therfield couple are a separate entity, have you managed to find
>> any
>> issue for them?
>>
>> Have you had any luck with tracking down a marriage bond or allegation
>> for
>> the Barley couple on the off chance that they were married by licence?
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I have examined the LDS Family Search microfilm of the Therfield
>> (Herts.)
>> Church of England Parish Register (1538-1988) to search for clues
>> concerning
>> the proposition that the marriage record of James Catline and Alice
>> Jackson
>> 3 July 1710 was in fact the marriage of James Catley of Barley to his
>> wife,
>> Alice. In such a case the spelling of Catline could be considered to be
>> a
>> "one off" clerical error and there would be unlikely to be other
>> Catlines
>> in
>> the parish registry at about that time. The registry entry is the only
>> wedding for the calender year, 1710 and it is perfectly legible so I am
>> inclined to think that it was correctly recorded. I also observed the
>> surname "Catline" in two baptism records in the registry: Charles
>> Catline, son of Thomas and Mary Catline 24 Jun, 1689; Susan, daughter
>> of
>> Gho. and Mary Catline 15 Mar 1701. These records indicate that Catline
>> was
>> a family of long standing in the Therfield parish. Therefore I believe
>> it
>> is more likely than not that James Catley of Barley is not the James
>> Catline
>> recorded in the Therfield parish register as the spouse of Alice
>> Jackson.
>>
>> Mick Catley
>>
>>
>>
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