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Chris, Further to my last e-mail :-
Entries for 1873
Line 16 should be Rev Stephen Reed Cattley and the place Fittleworth SSX not Rev S Reed Catley at Tittleworth.
Line 21 should be Stephen Robert Cattley and the place Stillington NRY not S.R.Catley at Skittington
Lines 25, 29 and 30 are also recognised Cattleys not Catleys.
Cheers
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Cattley
To: catley @rootsweb
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 11:38 AM
Subject: Catley database
Chris,
Please will you ammend the entry for 1871 for S.R. Catley.
This concerns Stephen Robert Cattley not S.R.Catley and the location is Stillington not Stittington.
Tim
______________________________________________
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Tim,
>Please will you ammend the entry for 1871 for S.R. Catley.
>
>This concerns Stephen Robert Cattley not S.R.Catley and the location is
>Stillington not Stittington.
Will do in next update
Chris
--
Chris Newall EMail : chris(a)rebus.demon.co.uk
Ealing, London, W5 Website: http://www.rebus.demon.co.uk/
Chris,
Please will you ammend the entry for 1871 for S.R. Catley.
This concerns Stephen Robert Cattley not S.R.Catley and the location is Stillington not Stittington.
Tim
______________________________________________
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Nigel / Liz
I have this person as m Mary Ann Roddle. Bombay 10/09/1873 as per your tree info Nigel.
However :-
In the latest Catley database release, Liz has him as m in 1871 (info ex Indian Reg Office m's).
Can either of you clarify for me and my "all Cat*ley database please"?
Regards
Tim
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Hi Kay & Liz,
As you know the Garforth Catley tree is one of "The Big Three" Yorkshire ones, origionally explored by your goodselves and then shelved. Since then Liz and self have done a bit of work on the American branch and added a whole new sub tree ( part of a Pennsylvania coal fields emigration ) whilst I have located an overlooked UK branch which is resulting in a Familytree dna test which is being processed soon, that's John Catley down in Bristol.
Re my recent e-mail concerning "Railway Cat*leys" :- you may have noticed Edward Catley who is shown as an Engine Driver in 1884 for the Midland Great Western Railway based at Kingscourt depot.
>From what I can tell, the MGWR was an Irish line that ran East/West between Dublin and Galway.
Records indicate a Charles Catley b 06/07/1868 in Dublin North with parents given as Edward and Catherine nee Marcroft.
If you turn back to our Garforth data you will see that we have an Edward Catley bt 16/03/1828 Garforth Yorkshire, the son of James and Elizabeth Thomlinson who married Catherine Marcroft at St Peters, Leeds in 1857.
If you now look for Catley births in Dublin, you will find a "run" of them between 1854 and 1868, could they all belong to Charles and Catherine?
Would either of you have the time to explore this "Irish connection" and see what happened?
Tim
______________________________________________
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Hi Lynda,
We have a clash of persons ie one individual who features on two different trees.
Please refer to your Melbourn family tree member Charles Catley bir: 21/10/1825 & bap: 15/10/1826 Melbourn, who is marked as marrying Arundell Penny with a child Hannah bap 1840 Newington, London. Parents given as Joseph (1) and Elizabeth nee Burdette.
Please be aware that the James of Barley tree also sports a Charles Catley bap: 25/09/1814 Anstey who also married Arundell Penny with same issue ie Hannah bap 1840 Newington, with parents given as Joseph and Elizabeth nee Hagger.
The 1851 census for St Luke, Finsbury, Middlesex shows that at 2.Pinks Row there was Charles Catley age 37 with wife Arundell and nephew George Hagger age 12.
Apart from the Hagger evidence, the birth mathematics indicate that this Charles is indeed a James of Barley member as is his daughter Hannah.
Have attempted to contact you direct for the last two days but get only bounces.
Tim
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The only incident on the Indian Railways that I have come across involving
Catleys, was with the GIP ( Great Indian Peninsular)Railway not BNR company. I
originally thought it concerned Thomas Pratt Catley (the nearest mutual
ancestor for Ben and myself)- however I subsequently discovered that there
other Catleys who were engine drivers for the GIPR at the time so I can't
necessarily pin the blame on any particular one of them!
Pointed in the right direction by Liz, I found a hand written account of the
trial amongst the India Office records at the British Library.
It appears that in 1885 , an engine driver for GIP Railway named Catley (no
first name given) was held responsible for a fatal rail accident caused by his
failure to react to danger signal. He was sentenced to one month in prison ,
served his term and returned to work for the railway. However the High Court
of its own volition reviewed the case and extended the term to six months
'rigorous' imprisonment -so, two months after his discharge, he was rearrested
and re imprisoned. The sentence was subsequently reduced to six months 'simple
' imprisonment
Nigel
Quoting Ben & Sally Doughty <bensallydoughty(a)btinternet.com>:
> Hi All,
>
> Just a quick reminder about the Catley's (Shea's) in India with the
> Connection to Railways (BNR now South Eastern Railway) out there. I think
> there was some major Railway incident out there during construction of it.
>
> Regards
>
> Ben
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: catley-request(a)rootsweb.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 8:00 AM
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Railway Cat*leys (John Catley)
> 2. Re: Railway Cat*leys (Tim Cattley)
> 3. Re: Railway Cat*leys (lizcordingley)
> 4. Re: Railway Cat*leys (Tim Cattley)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:01:23 +0000
> From: John Catley <jcatley(a)hotmail.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
> To: "catley(a)rootsweb.com" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Message-ID: <BLU115-W17F9000B48DDDB9F9A42C8FE0F0(a)phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Hi Tim
>
> It seems as though my interest in railways has finally clashed with my
> family history interest.
>
> Enoch Catley was the driver of the Flying Scotsman when an accident happened
> on 21st January 1876. A number of people were killed and injured in the
> accident. If you read the Board of Trade report Enoch gave evidence but was
> found to be fault free. The accident happened in a snow storm and the
> signals froze in the "go" position. This resulted in a redesign of signals.
>
> You probably know all of this, but if for some strange reason you do not,
> look it up - its an interesting read.
>
> John one T
>
> > From: felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk
> > To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:12:12 +0000
> > Subject: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
> >
> > Anybody recognise these bod's?
> >
> >
> > Name / s Company Position Employment location Service from?
> >
> > Catley Edward Midland Great Western Rly Driver Kingscourt 1884
> > Catley Enoch Great Northern Rly Driver Peterborough 1874 or 6
> > Catley W.J.L. London Brighton & S Coast Rly Fireman New Cross 1905
> > Catley W.L. London & North Eastern Rly Clerk Hull Docks 1947
> > Cattley John Great Northern Railway Driver London 1876
> >
> > I know of Enoch, he is a Robert of Garforth (Yorkshire) tree member but no
> > others spring to mind.
> >
> > Edward Catley is an interesting one because from what I can tell, this was
> > not The Great Western Railway but an Irish one running between Dublin and
> > Galway. I have notes that show a number of children born to an Edward
> > Catley and his wife Catherine nee Marcroft in Dublin (North) from 1866
> > onwards.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> > http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> > in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:53:34 -0000
> From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Message-ID: <47C621411C39433DA1BAF62EFF00D270@NewUser>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi John,
>
> Glad to have shaken you out of Catley Rootsweb hibernation at last!
>
> I think that there should be a thread somewhere regarding Enoch because I
> recall reporting this railway accident and that driver Enoch Catley was i/c
> the southbound express when he missed a red light signal in a blizzard and
> his engine hit the tail end of a goods train ahead of him which was in the
> process of exiting the main line to make way for him. From what I recall,
> most of the deaths and injuries were due to the fact that carriages from his
> train, derailed and scattered across the main line tracks, were hit by an
> express travelling in the opposite direction. Horrible.
>
> Perhaps you can use your railway knowledge to find out about Kingscourt
> depot on the MGW(I) railway where Edward Catley was based in 1884?
>
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Catley" <jcatley(a)hotmail.co.uk>
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
>
>
> >
> > Hi Tim
> >
> > It seems as though my interest in railways has finally clashed with my
> > family history interest.
> >
> > Enoch Catley was the driver of the Flying Scotsman when an accident
> > happened on 21st January 1876. A number of people were killed and injured
> > in the accident. If you read the Board of Trade report Enoch gave evidence
> > but was found to be fault free. The accident happened in a snow storm and
> > the signals froze in the "go" position. This resulted in a redesign of
> > signals.
> >
> > You probably know all of this, but if for some strange reason you do not,
> > look it up - its an interesting read.
> >
> > John one T
> >
> >> From: felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk
> >> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> >> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:12:12 +0000
> >> Subject: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
> >>
> >> Anybody recognise these bod's?
> >>
> >>
> >> Name / s Company Position Employment location Service from?
> >>
> >> Catley Edward Midland Great Western Rly Driver Kingscourt 1884
> >> Catley Enoch Great Northern Rly Driver Peterborough 1874 or 6
> >> Catley W.J.L. London Brighton & S Coast Rly Fireman New Cross 1905
> >> Catley W.L. London & North Eastern Rly Clerk Hull Docks 1947
> >> Cattley John Great Northern Railway Driver London 1876
> >>
> >> I know of Enoch, he is a Robert of Garforth (Yorkshire) tree member but
> >> no others spring to mind.
> >>
> >> Edward Catley is an interesting one because from what I can tell, this
> >> was not The Great Western Railway but an Irish one running between Dublin
> >> and Galway. I have notes that show a number of children born to an Edward
> >> Catley and his wife Catherine nee Marcroft in Dublin (North) from 1866
> >> onwards.
> >>
> >> Tim
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> >> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> >>
> >> -------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> >> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> > in the subject and the body of the message
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> > http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:16:43 -0000
> From: "lizcordingley" <lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Message-ID: <0FA4D6B4C59B4AFCB0F123C4E0E0F91A@AmberPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> William John L married Ethel Burrbridge 1909 Greenwich was an Railway Engine
> Stoker on 1901 census born 1884 London Old Ford. His father on the 1891
> census was also William b 1845 Wandsworth was a Railway Inspector.
> Liz
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
> To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:12 PM
> Subject: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
>
>
> > Anybody recognise these bod's?
> >
> >
> > Name / s Company
> > Position Employment location Service
> > from?
> >
> > Catley Edward Midland Great Western Rly Driver
> > Kingscourt 1884
> > Catley Enoch Great Northern Rly
> > Driver Peterborough 1874 or 6
> > Catley W.J.L. London Brighton & S Coast Rly Fireman
> > New Cross 1905
> > Catley W.L. London & North Eastern Rly Clerk
> > Hull Docks 1947
> > Cattley John Great Northern Railway
> > Driver London 1876
> >
> > I know of Enoch, he is a Robert of Garforth (Yorkshire) tree member but no
> > others spring to mind.
> >
> > Edward Catley is an interesting one because from what I can tell, this was
> > not The Great Western Railway but an Irish one running between Dublin and
> > Galway. I have notes that show a number of children born to an Edward
> > Catley and his wife Catherine nee Marcroft in Dublin (North) from 1866
> > onwards.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> > http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> > in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:01:28 -0000
> From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Message-ID: <435AF4E6F7E54FABBCFC378701FEC6BB@NewUser>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hello Liz,
>
> I feel a new tree coming on here, unless you can fit William Snr into one of
> your numerous small tree notes that I know you have kicking around?
>
> The forward progression from WJLC would appear to be Greenwich - Croydon -
> Caernarfon - Taunton Dean in Somerset.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lizcordingley" <lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
>
>
> > William John L married Ethel Burrbridge 1909 Greenwich was an Railway
> > Engine
> > Stoker on 1901 census born 1884 London Old Ford. His father on the 1891
> > census was also William b 1845 Wandsworth was a Railway Inspector.
> > Liz
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
> > To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:12 PM
> > Subject: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
> >
> >
> >> Anybody recognise these bod's?
> >>
> >>
> >> Name / s Company
> >> Position Employment location Service
> >> from?
> >>
> >> Catley Edward Midland Great Western Rly Driver
> >> Kingscourt 1884
> >> Catley Enoch Great Northern Rly
> >> Driver Peterborough 1874 or 6
> >> Catley W.J.L. London Brighton & S Coast Rly Fireman
> >> New Cross 1905
> >> Catley W.L. London & North Eastern Rly Clerk
> >> Hull Docks 1947
> >> Cattley John Great Northern Railway
> >> Driver London 1876
> >>
> >> I know of Enoch, he is a Robert of Garforth (Yorkshire) tree member but
> >> no
> >> others spring to mind.
> >>
> >> Edward Catley is an interesting one because from what I can tell, this
> >> was
> >> not The Great Western Railway but an Irish one running between Dublin and
> >> Galway. I have notes that show a number of children born to an Edward
> >> Catley and his wife Catherine nee Marcroft in Dublin (North) from 1866
> >> onwards.
> >>
> >> Tim
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> >> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> >>
> >> -------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> >> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> >> quotes
> >> in the subject and the body of the message
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> > CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> > in the subject and the body of the message
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> > http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> To contact the CATLEY list administrator, send an email to
> CATLEY-admin(a)rootsweb.com.
>
> To post a message to the CATLEY mailing list, send an email to
> CATLEY(a)rootsweb.com.
>
> __________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com
> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body
> of the
> email with no additional text.
>
>
> End of CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7
> ************************************
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in
> the subject and the body of the message
>
>
Hi All,
Just a quick reminder about the Catley's (Shea's) in India with the
Connection to Railways (BNR now South Eastern Railway) out there. I think
there was some major Railway incident out there during construction of it.
Regards
Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: catley-request(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 8:00 AM
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Railway Cat*leys (John Catley)
2. Re: Railway Cat*leys (Tim Cattley)
3. Re: Railway Cat*leys (lizcordingley)
4. Re: Railway Cat*leys (Tim Cattley)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:01:23 +0000
From: John Catley <jcatley(a)hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
To: "catley(a)rootsweb.com" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <BLU115-W17F9000B48DDDB9F9A42C8FE0F0(a)phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Tim
It seems as though my interest in railways has finally clashed with my
family history interest.
Enoch Catley was the driver of the Flying Scotsman when an accident happened
on 21st January 1876. A number of people were killed and injured in the
accident. If you read the Board of Trade report Enoch gave evidence but was
found to be fault free. The accident happened in a snow storm and the
signals froze in the "go" position. This resulted in a redesign of signals.
You probably know all of this, but if for some strange reason you do not,
look it up - its an interesting read.
John one T
> From: felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:12:12 +0000
> Subject: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
>
> Anybody recognise these bod's?
>
>
> Name / s Company Position Employment location Service from?
>
> Catley Edward Midland Great Western Rly Driver Kingscourt 1884
> Catley Enoch Great Northern Rly Driver Peterborough 1874 or 6
> Catley W.J.L. London Brighton & S Coast Rly Fireman New Cross 1905
> Catley W.L. London & North Eastern Rly Clerk Hull Docks 1947
> Cattley John Great Northern Railway Driver London 1876
>
> I know of Enoch, he is a Robert of Garforth (Yorkshire) tree member but no
> others spring to mind.
>
> Edward Catley is an interesting one because from what I can tell, this was
> not The Great Western Railway but an Irish one running between Dublin and
> Galway. I have notes that show a number of children born to an Edward
> Catley and his wife Catherine nee Marcroft in Dublin (North) from 1866
> onwards.
>
> Tim
>
> ______________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:53:34 -0000
From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <47C621411C39433DA1BAF62EFF00D270@NewUser>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi John,
Glad to have shaken you out of Catley Rootsweb hibernation at last!
I think that there should be a thread somewhere regarding Enoch because I
recall reporting this railway accident and that driver Enoch Catley was i/c
the southbound express when he missed a red light signal in a blizzard and
his engine hit the tail end of a goods train ahead of him which was in the
process of exiting the main line to make way for him. From what I recall,
most of the deaths and injuries were due to the fact that carriages from his
train, derailed and scattered across the main line tracks, were hit by an
express travelling in the opposite direction. Horrible.
Perhaps you can use your railway knowledge to find out about Kingscourt
depot on the MGW(I) railway where Edward Catley was based in 1884?
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Catley" <jcatley(a)hotmail.co.uk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
>
> Hi Tim
>
> It seems as though my interest in railways has finally clashed with my
> family history interest.
>
> Enoch Catley was the driver of the Flying Scotsman when an accident
> happened on 21st January 1876. A number of people were killed and injured
> in the accident. If you read the Board of Trade report Enoch gave evidence
> but was found to be fault free. The accident happened in a snow storm and
> the signals froze in the "go" position. This resulted in a redesign of
> signals.
>
> You probably know all of this, but if for some strange reason you do not,
> look it up - its an interesting read.
>
> John one T
>
>> From: felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:12:12 +0000
>> Subject: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
>>
>> Anybody recognise these bod's?
>>
>>
>> Name / s Company Position Employment location Service from?
>>
>> Catley Edward Midland Great Western Rly Driver Kingscourt 1884
>> Catley Enoch Great Northern Rly Driver Peterborough 1874 or 6
>> Catley W.J.L. London Brighton & S Coast Rly Fireman New Cross 1905
>> Catley W.L. London & North Eastern Rly Clerk Hull Docks 1947
>> Cattley John Great Northern Railway Driver London 1876
>>
>> I know of Enoch, he is a Robert of Garforth (Yorkshire) tree member but
>> no others spring to mind.
>>
>> Edward Catley is an interesting one because from what I can tell, this
>> was not The Great Western Railway but an Irish one running between Dublin
>> and Galway. I have notes that show a number of children born to an Edward
>> Catley and his wife Catherine nee Marcroft in Dublin (North) from 1866
>> onwards.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
> ______________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>
______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
http://www.netintelligence.com/email
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:16:43 -0000
From: "lizcordingley" <lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <0FA4D6B4C59B4AFCB0F123C4E0E0F91A@AmberPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
William John L married Ethel Burrbridge 1909 Greenwich was an Railway Engine
Stoker on 1901 census born 1884 London Old Ford. His father on the 1891
census was also William b 1845 Wandsworth was a Railway Inspector.
Liz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:12 PM
Subject: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
> Anybody recognise these bod's?
>
>
> Name / s Company
> Position Employment location Service
> from?
>
> Catley Edward Midland Great Western Rly Driver
> Kingscourt 1884
> Catley Enoch Great Northern Rly
> Driver Peterborough 1874 or 6
> Catley W.J.L. London Brighton & S Coast Rly Fireman
> New Cross 1905
> Catley W.L. London & North Eastern Rly Clerk
> Hull Docks 1947
> Cattley John Great Northern Railway
> Driver London 1876
>
> I know of Enoch, he is a Robert of Garforth (Yorkshire) tree member but no
> others spring to mind.
>
> Edward Catley is an interesting one because from what I can tell, this was
> not The Great Western Railway but an Irish one running between Dublin and
> Galway. I have notes that show a number of children born to an Edward
> Catley and his wife Catherine nee Marcroft in Dublin (North) from 1866
> onwards.
>
> Tim
>
> ______________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:01:28 -0000
From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <435AF4E6F7E54FABBCFC378701FEC6BB@NewUser>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hello Liz,
I feel a new tree coming on here, unless you can fit William Snr into one of
your numerous small tree notes that I know you have kicking around?
The forward progression from WJLC would appear to be Greenwich - Croydon -
Caernarfon - Taunton Dean in Somerset.
Cheers
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "lizcordingley" <lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
> William John L married Ethel Burrbridge 1909 Greenwich was an Railway
> Engine
> Stoker on 1901 census born 1884 London Old Ford. His father on the 1891
> census was also William b 1845 Wandsworth was a Railway Inspector.
> Liz
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
> To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:12 PM
> Subject: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
>
>
>> Anybody recognise these bod's?
>>
>>
>> Name / s Company
>> Position Employment location Service
>> from?
>>
>> Catley Edward Midland Great Western Rly Driver
>> Kingscourt 1884
>> Catley Enoch Great Northern Rly
>> Driver Peterborough 1874 or 6
>> Catley W.J.L. London Brighton & S Coast Rly Fireman
>> New Cross 1905
>> Catley W.L. London & North Eastern Rly Clerk
>> Hull Docks 1947
>> Cattley John Great Northern Railway
>> Driver London 1876
>>
>> I know of Enoch, he is a Robert of Garforth (Yorkshire) tree member but
>> no
>> others spring to mind.
>>
>> Edward Catley is an interesting one because from what I can tell, this
>> was
>> not The Great Western Railway but an Irish one running between Dublin and
>> Galway. I have notes that show a number of children born to an Edward
>> Catley and his wife Catherine nee Marcroft in Dublin (North) from 1866
>> onwards.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
> ______________________________________________
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>
______________________________________________
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------------------------------
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End of CATLEY Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7
************************************
Hello Liz,
I feel a new tree coming on here, unless you can fit William Snr into one of
your numerous small tree notes that I know you have kicking around?
The forward progression from WJLC would appear to be Greenwich - Croydon -
Caernarfon - Taunton Dean in Somerset.
Cheers
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "lizcordingley" <lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
> William John L married Ethel Burrbridge 1909 Greenwich was an Railway
> Engine
> Stoker on 1901 census born 1884 London Old Ford. His father on the 1891
> census was also William b 1845 Wandsworth was a Railway Inspector.
> Liz
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
> To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 10:12 PM
> Subject: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
>
>
>> Anybody recognise these bod's?
>>
>>
>> Name / s Company
>> Position Employment location Service
>> from?
>>
>> Catley Edward Midland Great Western Rly Driver
>> Kingscourt 1884
>> Catley Enoch Great Northern Rly
>> Driver Peterborough 1874 or 6
>> Catley W.J.L. London Brighton & S Coast Rly Fireman
>> New Cross 1905
>> Catley W.L. London & North Eastern Rly Clerk
>> Hull Docks 1947
>> Cattley John Great Northern Railway
>> Driver London 1876
>>
>> I know of Enoch, he is a Robert of Garforth (Yorkshire) tree member but
>> no
>> others spring to mind.
>>
>> Edward Catley is an interesting one because from what I can tell, this
>> was
>> not The Great Western Railway but an Irish one running between Dublin and
>> Galway. I have notes that show a number of children born to an Edward
>> Catley and his wife Catherine nee Marcroft in Dublin (North) from 1866
>> onwards.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
> ______________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>
______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
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Hi John,
Glad to have shaken you out of Catley Rootsweb hibernation at last!
I think that there should be a thread somewhere regarding Enoch because I
recall reporting this railway accident and that driver Enoch Catley was i/c
the southbound express when he missed a red light signal in a blizzard and
his engine hit the tail end of a goods train ahead of him which was in the
process of exiting the main line to make way for him. From what I recall,
most of the deaths and injuries were due to the fact that carriages from his
train, derailed and scattered across the main line tracks, were hit by an
express travelling in the opposite direction. Horrible.
Perhaps you can use your railway knowledge to find out about Kingscourt
depot on the MGW(I) railway where Edward Catley was based in 1884?
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Catley" <jcatley(a)hotmail.co.uk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
>
> Hi Tim
>
> It seems as though my interest in railways has finally clashed with my
> family history interest.
>
> Enoch Catley was the driver of the Flying Scotsman when an accident
> happened on 21st January 1876. A number of people were killed and injured
> in the accident. If you read the Board of Trade report Enoch gave evidence
> but was found to be fault free. The accident happened in a snow storm and
> the signals froze in the "go" position. This resulted in a redesign of
> signals.
>
> You probably know all of this, but if for some strange reason you do not,
> look it up - its an interesting read.
>
> John one T
>
>> From: felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:12:12 +0000
>> Subject: [CATLEY] Railway Cat*leys
>>
>> Anybody recognise these bod's?
>>
>>
>> Name / s Company Position Employment location Service from?
>>
>> Catley Edward Midland Great Western Rly Driver Kingscourt 1884
>> Catley Enoch Great Northern Rly Driver Peterborough 1874 or 6
>> Catley W.J.L. London Brighton & S Coast Rly Fireman New Cross 1905
>> Catley W.L. London & North Eastern Rly Clerk Hull Docks 1947
>> Cattley John Great Northern Railway Driver London 1876
>>
>> I know of Enoch, he is a Robert of Garforth (Yorkshire) tree member but
>> no others spring to mind.
>>
>> Edward Catley is an interesting one because from what I can tell, this
>> was not The Great Western Railway but an Irish one running between Dublin
>> and Galway. I have notes that show a number of children born to an Edward
>> Catley and his wife Catherine nee Marcroft in Dublin (North) from 1866
>> onwards.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
> ______________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>
______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
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Anybody recognise these bod's?
Name / s Company Position Employment location Service from?
Catley Edward Midland Great Western Rly Driver Kingscourt 1884
Catley Enoch Great Northern Rly Driver Peterborough 1874 or 6
Catley W.J.L. London Brighton & S Coast Rly Fireman New Cross 1905
Catley W.L. London & North Eastern Rly Clerk Hull Docks 1947
Cattley John Great Northern Railway Driver London 1876
I know of Enoch, he is a Robert of Garforth (Yorkshire) tree member but no others spring to mind.
Edward Catley is an interesting one because from what I can tell, this was not The Great Western Railway but an Irish one running between Dublin and Galway. I have notes that show a number of children born to an Edward Catley and his wife Catherine nee Marcroft in Dublin (North) from 1866 onwards.
Tim
______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
http://www.netintelligence.com/email
Hi David etc,
I have finally managed to arrange a visit to Hull in Feb. half term. I will
be going on the 21st - 25th and hope to drop in at Bottesford, Waddingham
etc on my way back through. So let me know what records I need to check etc
and I will see what I can do. I want to see if there are any apprenticeship
records for Thomas as he must of had some training to become a surveyor. He
was also a shipwright. Not quite sure what that would involve might google
it later. I'm sure you would need training to be a carpenter which is
another profession on the list. I also want to find any record of assisted
passage for the 2 brothers that went to Canada.
Liz
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Meredith" <david.meredith(a)live.co.uk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 9:06 PM
Subject: [CATLEY] Of Kingson-upon-Hull and beyond....
>I am posting this for general interest, but would be interested to hear
>from anyone who may have associations with any of the bod's mentioned
>below.
>
> I together with Liz, are currently looking at 'CATLEY' folk who either
> appear in, or who have known established links with Kingston-upon-Hull,
> Yorks, together with the surrounding area.
>
> It is a small project primarily aimed at identifying further members of
> our respective Bottesford and Kirton lines who may have settled there.
>
> I believe you have family there Tim, re Richard Cattley the merchant?
>
> In addition to the Bottesford and Kirton branches + Tim's branch appearing
> in Hull there are two further lines both headed by a 'James'.
>
> The first of these families comprises a James Catley/Catlow who married
> Alice Austin (a native of the Hull-Sculcoates area) in 1810 at Sculcoates.
>
> The couple had at least 6 children, the last being an Austin Catley born
> c.1825-1828 in Hull.
>
> This baptism event is the last confirmed reference I have for James. He
> has not been identified on any census and indeed his wife Alice is listed
> as a 'widow' in the 1851 returns.
>
> It is likely that he was either a mariner or waterman because the closing
> census returns for his wife in 1871 and 1881 at Hull show her resident in
> a mariner's almshouse.
>
> At this stage James's roots are open-ended although I half suspect he may
> be a match for the James Catley, son of Henry and Ann (nee Homes), who was
> baptized at Owston, Lincs in 1766. This village straddles the River Trent
> giving direct access into the Humber estuary etc.
>
> In passing: James's son Austin having married and had two daughters in
> Hull, promptly disgraced himself by setting up home with a woman called
> Sarah in Ipswich before sneaking back into Yorkshire.
>
> Austin's eldest daughter married John Anderson down in the Newport Reg.
> Dist., (Monmouth?) - quite how she came to be in Wales is a mystery.
>
> The second 'James' has been looked at in the past and has a more colourful
> tale to tell.
>
> He appears variously as Cattley & Catley.
>
> I am reasonably sure that he married Jane Wright (a girl from Edinburgh)
> in 1830 at York.
>
> If this James is a positive match for the James Cattley whose death was
> registered in the Hull Reg. Dist., Dec Qtr 1860 aged 54 yrs, then I wonder
> if he is in turn a match for the James Richard Cattley, son of Richard and
> Mary at York on 8 Jan 1806?
>
> Following their marriage, James and Alice had twin sons George and James
> baptized in York the following year in 1831 where after they settled in
> Sculcoates/Hull.
>
> Note the Hull census returns quote Hull as being the birth place for James
> and his twin boys. This may well be an 'adoption' given the marriage and
> baptisms at York plus the fact that the 1851 census prison record for twin
> James listed York as his actual birthplace.
>
> Having arrived in 'Hull' the couple had a further 4 sons.
>
> James was by trade a wood turner however newspaper reports reveal James
> was rather a little fond of the drink to the detriment of his family who
> were as a consequence badly neglected. Action was taken against him on at
> least two occasions when he was sentenced to two terms of imprisonment
> with hard labour.
>
> The knock on effect of James's actions was see his twin sons venture into
> petty crime - at first involving the the left of food which was probably a
> necessity but later graduating to items of property.
>
> Initially the young twin boys were severely whipped in Hull Gaol to the
> extent that one of them fell into a prolonged fit.
>
> Their venture into crime came to a head in 1843 for George, then aged 12
> years, who got his marching orders for stealing two watches in the form of
> 7 years transportation.
>
> Not to be out done his twin James managed to get himself 10 years
> transportation in 1850 for the theft of a watch and other items.
>
> Curiously James is recorded as a convict in Millbank Prison, London in the
> 1851 census from where incidentally he was apparently given an early
> release on licence in 1855. If he did actually get transported I think he
> probably went to Bermuda as the island is mentioned in the licence
> documentation. Either way he seems to turn up in Grimsby, Lincs for the
> 1871 census where he was employed as a fish curer.
>
> As for his twin brother George, he disappears completely.
>
> Of the remaining sibblings....
>
> William Catley born c.1838, Hull became a seaman and died at sea during
> August 1866 on a return voyage from Danzig to London.
>
> Andrew Catley born c.1845 moved down to London and settled there, first
> working as a waiter before trying his hand as a coffee and eating house
> proprietor. He married Caroline Hokisson in 1867 and died in 1906. This
> couple appear to have been childless.
>
> Andrew's elder brother Thomas born c.1836, Hull married Jane Godfrey in
> 1856, probably in Sculcoates, they had a daughter and two sons in Hull
> before heading south for London where he was certainly settled by 1862.
> The couple had further issue in the London area. Thomas like his father
> also started out as a woodturner come woodcarver - but he progressed into
> architectural carving and ended up a sculptor of marble.
>
> Of the children and grandchildren of Thomas and Jane who lived in the
> general London area, they seem to have remained there area save for one so
> far.
>
> Thomas's son Charles Frederick Catley (married to Louise Chamberlain a
> native of Birmingham) had a son named Sidney Charles Walter Catley or Si
> dney Cyril Walter Catley (as per 1911 Census) who was born in Lambeth
> possibly on the 2 Sep 1886.
>
> In June 1956, a Sidney C.W. Catley appears on a passenger arrivals list at
> Liverpool from Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
>
> He is described as being born on the 2 Sep 1886, 69 yrs of age, a retired
> Canadian citizen who had come over for a 2 month visit intending to travel
> to 13 Berwyn Road, Herne Hill, London, SE24 presumably visiting relatives.
>
> The youngest child of James and Jane was a son Frederick, born 1847 at
> Hull. I have still to track him after the 1861 census at Hull.
>
> I am not, as far as I am aware, related to the family of the second James
> Cattley/Catley married to Jane Wright.
>
> However, in the case of James Catlow/Catley married to Alice Austin - if
> it it turns out to correct that he came from Owston, the indications are
> that the Owston Catleys derive from the Bottesford Catleys which will have
> implications for Liz and I.
>
> The project continues.
>
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
Re your last :-
A couple of years ago now, some lister who I can not recall posted info re a diary written by a Catley wife in the early 1920's concerning their prep's for emigrating to Canada ex London suburbs.
I think this could have been Elaine Maude Catley nee Clark who possibly m Sidney Charles Walter (or William?) Catley 4/4 1915 Brentford RD. Possibly a son John L born 1/4 1918 Brentford (I seem to recall that there was a son involved) before their departure.
Backtracking now by two generations to SCW's grandfather Thomas bt 1836 Sculcoates who m Jane Godfrey, was there not another son apart from Charles Frederick who married and had offspring? Am thinking of Bertram Sidney b 1/4 1874 Kennington RD who m Frances McCoach in Londonderry in 1894, there looks to be two sons : Thos Henry b Londonderry 1895 and Horace Wentworth b 1898 Fulham, there are indications here for a m in Bombay in 1924 and West Derby in 1922 (Horace) with issue from both.
Tim
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This is what I wrote on this site 18 months ago. It may fill in some gaps. Note that the other brother was one of the Parkhurst Boys. Anthony
Tim: I am now in possession of a wealth of information about the elder Catley twin James and have educated myself further on transportation to Bermuda. This became an important naval base following the loss of the Americam Colonies and the fortifications on Ireland Island were strengthened using convict labour. It was a most unpopular place to be transported to as there was little accommodation on land and most convicts lived on hulks. The conditions on board were appalling (see Hansard 26 July 1860). In addition, whereas convicts in Oz could obtain a ticket of leave and hope for a new life there was nowhere for them to go on Bermuda.
Following his conviction on 5 July 1850 James was at the Borough Gaol of Kingston-upon-Hull; he was transferred to Millbank Prison on 21 August 1850 (and was there on census night the following year); he then went to Stirling Castle, a prison hulk moored off Portsmouth on 14 July 1851. His conduct improved from "not good" in Hull through indifferent at Millbank to good at Stirling Castle. He appears to have been transported to Bermuda on the bark Ascension being received there on 26 January 1852. There he lived as No. 1711 on the Medway Hulk until being returned to Millbank on 23 March 1853. The licence of release had been issued on board the Medway Hulk on 20 February 1855. He was discharged 21 April 1855 with destination Hull.
QUESTION: What happened next? Could he be the James Catley found at Grimsby or is that body already accounted for? The James in question was a joiner.
Physical description: complexion sallow; hair dark brown; eyes light brown; height 5 ft 6 in; various scars and marks.
Intriguingly the back of one document has Gratuity 9-2-10, Passage Money 2 - -, Total Due 7-2-10.
QUESTION: Does any lister know if convicts were given money to help them make a new start?
Anthony
________________________________________
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Meredith [david.meredith(a)live.co.uk]
Sent: 05 January 2011 22:06
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [CATLEY] Of Kingson-upon-Hull and beyond....
I am posting this for general interest, but would be interested to hear from anyone who may have associations with any of the bod's mentioned below.
I together with Liz, are currently looking at 'CATLEY' folk who either appear in, or who have known established links with Kingston-upon-Hull, Yorks, together with the surrounding area.
It is a small project primarily aimed at identifying further members of our respective Bottesford and Kirton lines who may have settled there.
I believe you have family there Tim, re Richard Cattley the merchant?
In addition to the Bottesford and Kirton branches + Tim's branch appearing in Hull there are two further lines both headed by a 'James'.
The first of these families comprises a James Catley/Catlow who married Alice Austin (a native of the Hull-Sculcoates area) in 1810 at Sculcoates.
The couple had at least 6 children, the last being an Austin Catley born c.1825-1828 in Hull.
This baptism event is the last confirmed reference I have for James. He has not been identified on any census and indeed his wife Alice is listed as a 'widow' in the 1851 returns.
It is likely that he was either a mariner or waterman because the closing census returns for his wife in 1871 and 1881 at Hull show her resident in a mariner's almshouse.
At this stage James's roots are open-ended although I half suspect he may be a match for the James Catley, son of Henry and Ann (nee Homes), who was baptized at Owston, Lincs in 1766. This village straddles the River Trent giving direct access into the Humber estuary etc.
In passing: James's son Austin having married and had two daughters in Hull, promptly disgraced himself by setting up home with a woman called Sarah in Ipswich before sneaking back into Yorkshire.
Austin's eldest daughter married John Anderson down in the Newport Reg. Dist., (Monmouth?) - quite how she came to be in Wales is a mystery.
The second 'James' has been looked at in the past and has a more colourful tale to tell.
He appears variously as Cattley & Catley.
I am reasonably sure that he married Jane Wright (a girl from Edinburgh) in 1830 at York.
If this James is a positive match for the James Cattley whose death was registered in the Hull Reg. Dist., Dec Qtr 1860 aged 54 yrs, then I wonder if he is in turn a match for the James Richard Cattley, son of Richard and Mary at York on 8 Jan 1806?
Following their marriage, James and Alice had twin sons George and James baptized in York the following year in 1831 where after they settled in Sculcoates/Hull.
Note the Hull census returns quote Hull as being the birth place for James and his twin boys. This may well be an 'adoption' given the marriage and baptisms at York plus the fact that the 1851 census prison record for twin James listed York as his actual birthplace.
Having arrived in 'Hull' the couple had a further 4 sons.
James was by trade a wood turner however newspaper reports reveal James was rather a little fond of the drink to the detriment of his family who were as a consequence badly neglected. Action was taken against him on at least two occasions when he was sentenced to two terms of imprisonment with hard labour.
The knock on effect of James's actions was see his twin sons venture into petty crime - at first involving the the left of food which was probably a necessity but later graduating to items of property.
Initially the young twin boys were severely whipped in Hull Gaol to the extent that one of them fell into a prolonged fit.
Their venture into crime came to a head in 1843 for George, then aged 12 years, who got his marching orders for stealing two watches in the form of 7 years transportation.
Not to be out done his twin James managed to get himself 10 years transportation in 1850 for the theft of a watch and other items.
Curiously James is recorded as a convict in Millbank Prison, London in the 1851 census from where incidentally he was apparently given an early release on licence in 1855. If he did actually get transported I think he probably went to Bermuda as the island is mentioned in the licence documentation. Either way he seems to turn up in Grimsby, Lincs for the 1871 census where he was employed as a fish curer.
As for his twin brother George, he disappears completely.
Of the remaining sibblings....
William Catley born c.1838, Hull became a seaman and died at sea during August 1866 on a return voyage from Danzig to London.
Andrew Catley born c.1845 moved down to London and settled there, first working as a waiter before trying his hand as a coffee and eating house proprietor. He married Caroline Hokisson in 1867 and died in 1906. This couple appear to have been childless.
Andrew's elder brother Thomas born c.1836, Hull married Jane Godfrey in 1856, probably in Sculcoates, they had a daughter and two sons in Hull before heading south for London where he was certainly settled by 1862. The couple had further issue in the London area. Thomas like his father also started out as a woodturner come woodcarver - but he progressed into architectural carving and ended up a sculptor of marble.
Of the children and grandchildren of Thomas and Jane who lived in the general London area, they seem to have remained there area save for one so far.
Thomas's son Charles Frederick Catley (married to Louise Chamberlain a native of Birmingham) had a son named Sidney Charles Walter Catley or Si dney Cyril Walter Catley (as per 1911 Census) who was born in Lambeth possibly on the 2 Sep 1886.
In June 1956, a Sidney C.W. Catley appears on a passenger arrivals list at Liverpool from Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
He is described as being born on the 2 Sep 1886, 69 yrs of age, a retired Canadian citizen who had come over for a 2 month visit intending to travel to 13 Berwyn Road, Herne Hill, London, SE24 presumably visiting relatives.
The youngest child of James and Jane was a son Frederick, born 1847 at Hull. I have still to track him after the 1861 census at Hull.
I am not, as far as I am aware, related to the family of the second James Cattley/Catley married to Jane Wright.
However, in the case of James Catlow/Catley married to Alice Austin - if it it turns out to correct that he came from Owston, the indications are that the Owston Catleys derive from the Bottesford Catleys which will have implications for Liz and I.
The project continues.
David
-------------------------------
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I am posting this for general interest, but would be interested to hear from anyone who may have associations with any of the bod's mentioned below.
I together with Liz, are currently looking at 'CATLEY' folk who either appear in, or who have known established links with Kingston-upon-Hull, Yorks, together with the surrounding area.
It is a small project primarily aimed at identifying further members of our respective Bottesford and Kirton lines who may have settled there.
I believe you have family there Tim, re Richard Cattley the merchant?
In addition to the Bottesford and Kirton branches + Tim's branch appearing in Hull there are two further lines both headed by a 'James'.
The first of these families comprises a James Catley/Catlow who married Alice Austin (a native of the Hull-Sculcoates area) in 1810 at Sculcoates.
The couple had at least 6 children, the last being an Austin Catley born c.1825-1828 in Hull.
This baptism event is the last confirmed reference I have for James. He has not been identified on any census and indeed his wife Alice is listed as a 'widow' in the 1851 returns.
It is likely that he was either a mariner or waterman because the closing census returns for his wife in 1871 and 1881 at Hull show her resident in a mariner's almshouse.
At this stage James's roots are open-ended although I half suspect he may be a match for the James Catley, son of Henry and Ann (nee Homes), who was baptized at Owston, Lincs in 1766. This village straddles the River Trent giving direct access into the Humber estuary etc.
In passing: James's son Austin having married and had two daughters in Hull, promptly disgraced himself by setting up home with a woman called Sarah in Ipswich before sneaking back into Yorkshire.
Austin's eldest daughter married John Anderson down in the Newport Reg. Dist., (Monmouth?) - quite how she came to be in Wales is a mystery.
The second 'James' has been looked at in the past and has a more colourful tale to tell.
He appears variously as Cattley & Catley.
I am reasonably sure that he married Jane Wright (a girl from Edinburgh) in 1830 at York.
If this James is a positive match for the James Cattley whose death was registered in the Hull Reg. Dist., Dec Qtr 1860 aged 54 yrs, then I wonder if he is in turn a match for the James Richard Cattley, son of Richard and Mary at York on 8 Jan 1806?
Following their marriage, James and Alice had twin sons George and James baptized in York the following year in 1831 where after they settled in Sculcoates/Hull.
Note the Hull census returns quote Hull as being the birth place for James and his twin boys. This may well be an 'adoption' given the marriage and baptisms at York plus the fact that the 1851 census prison record for twin James listed York as his actual birthplace.
Having arrived in 'Hull' the couple had a further 4 sons.
James was by trade a wood turner however newspaper reports reveal James was rather a little fond of the drink to the detriment of his family who were as a consequence badly neglected. Action was taken against him on at least two occasions when he was sentenced to two terms of imprisonment with hard labour.
The knock on effect of James's actions was see his twin sons venture into petty crime - at first involving the the left of food which was probably a necessity but later graduating to items of property.
Initially the young twin boys were severely whipped in Hull Gaol to the extent that one of them fell into a prolonged fit.
Their venture into crime came to a head in 1843 for George, then aged 12 years, who got his marching orders for stealing two watches in the form of 7 years transportation.
Not to be out done his twin James managed to get himself 10 years transportation in 1850 for the theft of a watch and other items.
Curiously James is recorded as a convict in Millbank Prison, London in the 1851 census from where incidentally he was apparently given an early release on licence in 1855. If he did actually get transported I think he probably went to Bermuda as the island is mentioned in the licence documentation. Either way he seems to turn up in Grimsby, Lincs for the 1871 census where he was employed as a fish curer.
As for his twin brother George, he disappears completely.
Of the remaining sibblings....
William Catley born c.1838, Hull became a seaman and died at sea during August 1866 on a return voyage from Danzig to London.
Andrew Catley born c.1845 moved down to London and settled there, first working as a waiter before trying his hand as a coffee and eating house proprietor. He married Caroline Hokisson in 1867 and died in 1906. This couple appear to have been childless.
Andrew's elder brother Thomas born c.1836, Hull married Jane Godfrey in 1856, probably in Sculcoates, they had a daughter and two sons in Hull before heading south for London where he was certainly settled by 1862. The couple had further issue in the London area. Thomas like his father also started out as a woodturner come woodcarver - but he progressed into architectural carving and ended up a sculptor of marble.
Of the children and grandchildren of Thomas and Jane who lived in the general London area, they seem to have remained there area save for one so far.
Thomas's son Charles Frederick Catley (married to Louise Chamberlain a native of Birmingham) had a son named Sidney Charles Walter Catley or Si dney Cyril Walter Catley (as per 1911 Census) who was born in Lambeth possibly on the 2 Sep 1886.
In June 1956, a Sidney C.W. Catley appears on a passenger arrivals list at Liverpool from Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
He is described as being born on the 2 Sep 1886, 69 yrs of age, a retired Canadian citizen who had come over for a 2 month visit intending to travel to 13 Berwyn Road, Herne Hill, London, SE24 presumably visiting relatives.
The youngest child of James and Jane was a son Frederick, born 1847 at Hull. I have still to track him after the 1861 census at Hull.
I am not, as far as I am aware, related to the family of the second James Cattley/Catley married to Jane Wright.
However, in the case of James Catlow/Catley married to Alice Austin - if it it turns out to correct that he came from Owston, the indications are that the Owston Catleys derive from the Bottesford Catleys which will have implications for Liz and I.
The project continues.
David
Hello Jocelyn,
When I asked for help in addressing a 100 year block of Cat*ley records
(1800-1900) it was of course, in relation to my "which Cat*ley tree
identifier" bmd spreadsheet of which you have a copy.
This spreadsheet which now covers 16,600 events (1505-2010) is a compilation
of many listers hard work on their own trees and also the stalwart efforts
of both Liz C and Kay H and David.M who have done a commendable amount of
work on a number of other trees that they have no known blood relationship
with.
I am very thankful that all concerned have provided their information which
has enabled me to draw things together into this spreadsheet which presently
shows 37 differents sets of trees some very large, some just small twigs,
some dna tested and some frustratingly not.
If we look at the birth details by year, it is clear that we now have around
60% of them identified into their tree classifications, and have thus turned
the corner between the unknowns and knowns. My objective is, to attempt to
identify the remaining 40% and in so doing, probably being able to merge or
join various branches into main trees.
It is this objective which is my driving force and my comments re Horne
Catley's and other spelling variations, probably reflects my keenness to
complete this task rather than get dug into one Catley cell with all the
probable complications of name changes.
I am a firm believer of "taking the line of least resistance first" and then
going back to the difficult stuff later, eg I note that in the inner London
area between 1800 and 1823 we have 15 unaccounted Cat*ley births from 13
different sets of parents which is interesting.
You however seem to relish a research line of a higher "degree of
difficulty" and I accept this approach even if it does not give me the
"instant fix" that I am looking for and will just have to be patient and
wait for your Horne results with interest!
Regards
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jocelyn and Bert Prvanov" <prvanov(a)xtra.co.nz>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
> Hi there Tim,
> I raised this question specifically in relation to this family, not the
> Cat*ley database in general, but have found that headway with some of the
> unaccounted Catleys has been made with a variation of the Cat*ley name.
> John
> and Elizabeth's second child is recorded a Cateley. Maybe the spelling of
> all of their Catley children is a variation of something else? And this
> might be e case for some of the names in the db too. The issue is whether
> these are transcription errors, one-off variations in spelling or
> permanent
> spelling changes. Whatever way, it raises different issues for those
> following a line. My Catley line is also a case in point in the mid 1800s
> and before, and they were literate. Even in NZ now, our name is subject to
> variation. I live 10 minutes from where the family moved in 1895 and some
> of
> the descendents from there pronounce Cately, which has resulted in it
> being
> spelt Cately on occasions (Anne - Catholic Church in Waikanae). And of
> course there is now about 5 generations of Cateley in one line here in NZ.
> I
> know all these egs are within the Cat*ley spectra but no doubt there is
> digression from this. So Tim your advise is fine, but if you don't mind I
> intend to take a broad approach when resolving unaccounted Catleys. You
> are
> right that this will not mean hundreds of new and maybe/probably
> irrelevant
> names.
>
> Cheers
> Jocelyn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:catley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
> Behalf Of Anthony M. Carter
> Sent: Monday, 3 January 2011 6:53 a.m.
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>
> Tim,
> This is sound advice. However, we began with 9 baptisms at Horne between
> 1782 and 1824 with the spelling Catley. Three of these records are
> available
> in facsimile on Ancestry and there is no doubt about the spelling in the
> parish register. It is when we get to the census records that the spelling
> changes to Cately and variants thereof.
> Anthony
>
> ________________________________________
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
> Of
> Tim Cattley [felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk]
> Sent: 31 December 2010 22:06
> To: catley @rootsweb
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>
> Jocelyn,
>
> The amount of time that each of us devote to Cat*ley research is of
> course,
> entirely a personal choice and dependant on the amount of enjoyment
> derived
> therefrom. If you relish the "wide approach" taking in each and every
> spelling variation, I can only hope that you have the necessary time and
> enthusiasm and do not run out of steam?
> For my part, I think that thanks to Chris, and all who have contributed to
> his database, we have sufficient Cat*ley leads which span 500 years to
> keep
> us all busy for some time to come with what I call "core Catleys".
> The topic of alternative spellings, be they phonetic interpretation or
> transfer errors has been raised many times before, but has not aroused
> much
> interest eg. David M asked (last year I think it was) if anybody realised
> just how many Cautley entries there are and was anyone researching them
> but
> nobody replied. There has been some very necessary research on the
> alternative Cadley name done by James of Barley tree members due to a
> known
> parish register series of spelling errors in Tisbury which has been very
> productive indeed as can be seen now in the database.
> Do you not think it a good idea to stick with the "unaccounted Cat*leys"
> list first
> and see if we can resolve there, and then, at a later time, come back to
> alternative spelling name researches?
>
> Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jocelyn and Bert Prvanov" <prvanov(a)xtra.co.nz>
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>
>
>> Hi there Anthony,
>> Thank you for your comments I actually wrote the same thing about
>> spending
>> time on Kat*ley or not but decided to del it and see if someone else
>> suggested it. I am also aware that these three parishes are within 5 km
>> of
>> each other, but figured this had already been checked. Yes, I have
>> pondered
>> all these names you have listed below, and it is reassuring that I am not
>> taking a narrow approach to the name variations. Have had email
>> interactions
>> with Thomas and Mary Hewett's family and this is why my initial email
>> arose.
>> Whether they fit in to "our" Cat*leys or not there are plenty of them.
>>
>> Jocelyn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:catley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
>> Behalf Of Anthony M. Carter
>> Sent: Friday, 31 December 2010 3:46 a.m.
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>>
>> Dear Tim and Jocelyn,
>> Did you try Google Maps? The parishes of Horne, Bletchingley and Godstone
>> are all close and in the Godstone R.D. Kately was the spelling used by
>> the
>> 1841 enumerator. In addition to the patriarch John at Whitewood, Horne
>> with
>> son James (cavalierly rounded down from 37 to 30) and James's wife
>> Harriott
>> there is a bunch of households. We can start at Godstone with John
>> Keatley
>> (so written) aged 50 and thus the other son about whom Tim enquires. He
>> was
>> married to Amelia (impossible to decipher from the census record but
>> London
>> Baptisms include their daughter Jane) with Thomas, Mary and Jane. I could
>> not immediately find son Richard who married Eliza but they baptized
>> Edward,
>> Sarah Ann and Eliza at Horne in the 1820's.
>> In addition we have Thomas Kately 50 at South Park Lane, Bletchingley
>> married to Mary with Richard, John, Robert, Thomas and Ann. In a separate
>> household at the same address are William Kately 26 and wife Ann; he may
>> be
>> another of Thomas's sons. Given the patriarch's high age could this be a
>> son
>> of whom the baptism has escaped us? His own marriage to Mary Hewett on 5
>> May
>> 1810 can be viewed on Ancestry. The same source has a couple of other
>> children of this couple who were not found on the 1841 census (Mary,
>> Jane).
>> Then at Wickham House, Godstone, we find Sarah Kately 12 female servant.
>> My questions are (1) To Tim, how much time is worth spending on Katelys
>> who
>> might or might not have been or become Catleys? I disagree that this is a
>> flash in the pan as I have identified 20 of them in 1841 to which we
>> might
>> add the 5 known members of Richard's family. Question (2) to Jocelyn, am
>> I
>> just repeating information you have and perhaps have much more of?
>> I shudder to think what might happen if Tim finally joined Ancestry and
>> entered the fantasyland of the Public Member Trees!!!
>> Best wishes, Anthony
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Jocelyn and Bert Prvanov [prvanov(a)xtra.co.nz]
>> Sent: 30 December 2010 12:04
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>>
>> Hi there Anthony and Tim,
>> Thanks for your comments Anthony and Tim. I wanted to clarify the status
>> of
>> John and Elizabeth's children before I decided whether I needed to asked
>> any
>> questions. I have John Snr under control, (1841 census Kately, died as
>> Cately 1843) but when I looked on the family trees on Ancestry.com John
>> Kateley with the same birth and death dates has Susannah as his wife.
>> This
>> name just happens to be that of John and Elizabeth's second child, and is
>> recorded as Cateley, not that I am refuting any of this couple's
>> children.
>> Unfortunately I can't find the marriage of John and Elizabeth. There are
>> also a couple of other males (Kateleys) who could fit in to the gap in
>> births to ponder over, given the fluid nature the surname.
>>
>> I still haven't decided if I need to ask a question or questions yet
>> .....
>>
>> Jocelyn
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:catley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
>> Behalf Of Anthony M. Carter
>> Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 2010 4:16 a.m.
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>>
>> You are right about spelling variants. John Keatly aged 50 (wife and 3
>> kids)
>> in 1841 at Godstone. James Catley (wife Harriett, no kids) in 1851 still
>> at
>> Horne. John Cately aged 70 (now alone, b Horne) in 1861 at Godstone. No
>> doubt with patience the list could be extended. What exactly was your
>> question? Anthony
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Jocelyn and Bert Prvanov [prvanov(a)xtra.co.nz]
>> Sent: 28 December 2010 14:13
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I have been delving into the above family. The children of John and
>> Elizabeth are listed on the database under Catley, the source being the
>> BVRI. I can't find any of these entries on any of the websites I
>> subscribe
>> to, or the Latter Day Saints one. I wanted to check "first hand", well
>> as
>> best I can remotely anyway, these earliest entries. So can I check out
>> these
>> Catley entries on-line please. The spelling of the name of this family
>> is
>> all over the place and I'm pretty certain it moved away from Catley to
>> Kateley.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Jocelyn
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
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>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>> -------------------------------
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>> in the subject and the body of the message
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>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
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>>
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>
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>
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Tim,
This is sound advice. However, we began with 9 baptisms at Horne between 1782 and 1824 with the spelling Catley. Three of these records are available in facsimile on Ancestry and there is no doubt about the spelling in the parish register. It is when we get to the census records that the spelling changes to Cately and variants thereof.
Anthony
________________________________________
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tim Cattley [felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk]
Sent: 31 December 2010 22:06
To: catley @rootsweb
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
Jocelyn,
The amount of time that each of us devote to Cat*ley research is of course,
entirely a personal choice and dependant on the amount of enjoyment derived
therefrom. If you relish the "wide approach" taking in each and every
spelling variation, I can only hope that you have the necessary time and
enthusiasm and do not run out of steam?
For my part, I think that thanks to Chris, and all who have contributed to
his database, we have sufficient Cat*ley leads which span 500 years to keep
us all busy for some time to come with what I call "core Catleys".
The topic of alternative spellings, be they phonetic interpretation or
transfer errors has been raised many times before, but has not aroused much
interest eg. David M asked (last year I think it was) if anybody realised
just how many Cautley entries there are and was anyone researching them but
nobody replied. There has been some very necessary research on the
alternative Cadley name done by James of Barley tree members due to a known
parish register series of spelling errors in Tisbury which has been very
productive indeed as can be seen now in the database.
Do you not think it a good idea to stick with the "unaccounted Cat*leys"
list first
and see if we can resolve there, and then, at a later time, come back to
alternative spelling name researches?
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jocelyn and Bert Prvanov" <prvanov(a)xtra.co.nz>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
> Hi there Anthony,
> Thank you for your comments I actually wrote the same thing about spending
> time on Kat*ley or not but decided to del it and see if someone else
> suggested it. I am also aware that these three parishes are within 5 km of
> each other, but figured this had already been checked. Yes, I have
> pondered
> all these names you have listed below, and it is reassuring that I am not
> taking a narrow approach to the name variations. Have had email
> interactions
> with Thomas and Mary Hewett's family and this is why my initial email
> arose.
> Whether they fit in to "our" Cat*leys or not there are plenty of them.
>
> Jocelyn
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:catley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
> Behalf Of Anthony M. Carter
> Sent: Friday, 31 December 2010 3:46 a.m.
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>
> Dear Tim and Jocelyn,
> Did you try Google Maps? The parishes of Horne, Bletchingley and Godstone
> are all close and in the Godstone R.D. Kately was the spelling used by the
> 1841 enumerator. In addition to the patriarch John at Whitewood, Horne
> with
> son James (cavalierly rounded down from 37 to 30) and James's wife
> Harriott
> there is a bunch of households. We can start at Godstone with John Keatley
> (so written) aged 50 and thus the other son about whom Tim enquires. He
> was
> married to Amelia (impossible to decipher from the census record but
> London
> Baptisms include their daughter Jane) with Thomas, Mary and Jane. I could
> not immediately find son Richard who married Eliza but they baptized
> Edward,
> Sarah Ann and Eliza at Horne in the 1820's.
> In addition we have Thomas Kately 50 at South Park Lane, Bletchingley
> married to Mary with Richard, John, Robert, Thomas and Ann. In a separate
> household at the same address are William Kately 26 and wife Ann; he may
> be
> another of Thomas's sons. Given the patriarch's high age could this be a
> son
> of whom the baptism has escaped us? His own marriage to Mary Hewett on 5
> May
> 1810 can be viewed on Ancestry. The same source has a couple of other
> children of this couple who were not found on the 1841 census (Mary,
> Jane).
> Then at Wickham House, Godstone, we find Sarah Kately 12 female servant.
> My questions are (1) To Tim, how much time is worth spending on Katelys
> who
> might or might not have been or become Catleys? I disagree that this is a
> flash in the pan as I have identified 20 of them in 1841 to which we might
> add the 5 known members of Richard's family. Question (2) to Jocelyn, am I
> just repeating information you have and perhaps have much more of?
> I shudder to think what might happen if Tim finally joined Ancestry and
> entered the fantasyland of the Public Member Trees!!!
> Best wishes, Anthony
>
> ________________________________________
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
> Of
> Jocelyn and Bert Prvanov [prvanov(a)xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: 30 December 2010 12:04
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>
> Hi there Anthony and Tim,
> Thanks for your comments Anthony and Tim. I wanted to clarify the status
> of
> John and Elizabeth's children before I decided whether I needed to asked
> any
> questions. I have John Snr under control, (1841 census Kately, died as
> Cately 1843) but when I looked on the family trees on Ancestry.com John
> Kateley with the same birth and death dates has Susannah as his wife. This
> name just happens to be that of John and Elizabeth's second child, and is
> recorded as Cateley, not that I am refuting any of this couple's children.
> Unfortunately I can't find the marriage of John and Elizabeth. There are
> also a couple of other males (Kateleys) who could fit in to the gap in
> births to ponder over, given the fluid nature the surname.
>
> I still haven't decided if I need to ask a question or questions yet .....
>
> Jocelyn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:catley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
> Behalf Of Anthony M. Carter
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 2010 4:16 a.m.
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>
> You are right about spelling variants. John Keatly aged 50 (wife and 3
> kids)
> in 1841 at Godstone. James Catley (wife Harriett, no kids) in 1851 still
> at
> Horne. John Cately aged 70 (now alone, b Horne) in 1861 at Godstone. No
> doubt with patience the list could be extended. What exactly was your
> question? Anthony
>
> ________________________________________
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
> Of
> Jocelyn and Bert Prvanov [prvanov(a)xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: 28 December 2010 14:13
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>
> Hi there,
>
> I have been delving into the above family. The children of John and
> Elizabeth are listed on the database under Catley, the source being the
> BVRI. I can't find any of these entries on any of the websites I subscribe
> to, or the Latter Day Saints one. I wanted to check "first hand", well as
> best I can remotely anyway, these earliest entries. So can I check out
> these
> Catley entries on-line please. The spelling of the name of this family is
> all over the place and I'm pretty certain it moved away from Catley to
> Kateley.
>
> Cheers
>
> Jocelyn
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
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Elaine / Sharon,
You may already have spotted the above who looks to be the illigt son of a Susan Catley. Her father is described as a servant of Buntingford.
Layston I think was a village about half a mile to the East of Buntingford but now enveloped in that conurbation.
I raise this because I think we still have that floating and unattached branch of the James Catley of Barley tree which starts with Thomas Catley marrying Maria Head in Barkway in 1849.
Can't see any obvious likely Susan on the Barley Catley tree.
Notice quite a few Head's in Layston and in particular Maria, daughter of James & Hannah bt 24/06/1821. Noticed a marriage between James Head and Hannah Mills at Layston in 1810.
Tim
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
> Jocelyn,
>
> The amount of time that each of us devote to Cat*ley research is of
> course,
> entirely a personal choice and dependant on the amount of enjoyment
> derived
> therefrom. If you relish the "wide approach" taking in each and every
> spelling variation, I can only hope that you have the necessary time and
> enthusiasm and do not run out of steam?
> For my part, I think that thanks to Chris, and all who have contributed to
> his database, we have sufficient Cat*ley leads which span 500 years to
> keep
> us all busy for some time to come with what I call "core Catleys".
> The topic of alternative spellings, be they phonetic interpretation or
> transfer errors has been raised many times before, but has not aroused
> much
> interest eg. David M asked (last year I think it was) if anybody realised
> just how many Cautley entries there are and was anyone researching them
> but
> nobody replied. There has been some very necessary research on the
> alternative Cadley name done by James of Barley tree members due to a
> known
> parish register series of spelling errors in Tisbury which has been very
> productive indeed as can be seen now in the database.
> Do you not think it a good idea to stick with the "unaccounted Cat*leys"
> list first
> and see if we can resolve there, and then, at a later time, come back to
> alternative spelling name researches?
>
> Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jocelyn and Bert Prvanov" <prvanov(a)xtra.co.nz>
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 8:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>
>
>> Hi there Anthony,
>> Thank you for your comments I actually wrote the same thing about
>> spending
>> time on Kat*ley or not but decided to del it and see if someone else
>> suggested it. I am also aware that these three parishes are within 5 km
>> of
>> each other, but figured this had already been checked. Yes, I have
>> pondered
>> all these names you have listed below, and it is reassuring that I am not
>> taking a narrow approach to the name variations. Have had email
>> interactions
>> with Thomas and Mary Hewett's family and this is why my initial email
>> arose.
>> Whether they fit in to "our" Cat*leys or not there are plenty of them.
>>
>> Jocelyn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:catley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
>> Behalf Of Anthony M. Carter
>> Sent: Friday, 31 December 2010 3:46 a.m.
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>>
>> Dear Tim and Jocelyn,
>> Did you try Google Maps? The parishes of Horne, Bletchingley and Godstone
>> are all close and in the Godstone R.D. Kately was the spelling used by
>> the
>> 1841 enumerator. In addition to the patriarch John at Whitewood, Horne
>> with
>> son James (cavalierly rounded down from 37 to 30) and James's wife
>> Harriott
>> there is a bunch of households. We can start at Godstone with John
>> Keatley
>> (so written) aged 50 and thus the other son about whom Tim enquires. He
>> was
>> married to Amelia (impossible to decipher from the census record but
>> London
>> Baptisms include their daughter Jane) with Thomas, Mary and Jane. I could
>> not immediately find son Richard who married Eliza but they baptized
>> Edward,
>> Sarah Ann and Eliza at Horne in the 1820's.
>> In addition we have Thomas Kately 50 at South Park Lane, Bletchingley
>> married to Mary with Richard, John, Robert, Thomas and Ann. In a separate
>> household at the same address are William Kately 26 and wife Ann; he may
>> be
>> another of Thomas's sons. Given the patriarch's high age could this be a
>> son
>> of whom the baptism has escaped us? His own marriage to Mary Hewett on 5
>> May
>> 1810 can be viewed on Ancestry. The same source has a couple of other
>> children of this couple who were not found on the 1841 census (Mary,
>> Jane).
>> Then at Wickham House, Godstone, we find Sarah Kately 12 female servant.
>> My questions are (1) To Tim, how much time is worth spending on Katelys
>> who
>> might or might not have been or become Catleys? I disagree that this is a
>> flash in the pan as I have identified 20 of them in 1841 to which we
>> might
>> add the 5 known members of Richard's family. Question (2) to Jocelyn, am
>> I
>> just repeating information you have and perhaps have much more of?
>> I shudder to think what might happen if Tim finally joined Ancestry and
>> entered the fantasyland of the Public Member Trees!!!
>> Best wishes, Anthony
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Jocelyn and Bert Prvanov [prvanov(a)xtra.co.nz]
>> Sent: 30 December 2010 12:04
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>>
>> Hi there Anthony and Tim,
>> Thanks for your comments Anthony and Tim. I wanted to clarify the status
>> of
>> John and Elizabeth's children before I decided whether I needed to asked
>> any
>> questions. I have John Snr under control, (1841 census Kately, died as
>> Cately 1843) but when I looked on the family trees on Ancestry.com John
>> Kateley with the same birth and death dates has Susannah as his wife.
>> This
>> name just happens to be that of John and Elizabeth's second child, and is
>> recorded as Cateley, not that I am refuting any of this couple's
>> children.
>> Unfortunately I can't find the marriage of John and Elizabeth. There are
>> also a couple of other males (Kateleys) who could fit in to the gap in
>> births to ponder over, given the fluid nature the surname.
>>
>> I still haven't decided if I need to ask a question or questions yet
>> .....
>>
>> Jocelyn
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:catley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On
>> Behalf Of Anthony M. Carter
>> Sent: Wednesday, 29 December 2010 4:16 a.m.
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>>
>> You are right about spelling variants. John Keatly aged 50 (wife and 3
>> kids)
>> in 1841 at Godstone. James Catley (wife Harriett, no kids) in 1851 still
>> at
>> Horne. John Cately aged 70 (now alone, b Horne) in 1861 at Godstone. No
>> doubt with patience the list could be extended. What exactly was your
>> question? Anthony
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Jocelyn and Bert Prvanov [prvanov(a)xtra.co.nz]
>> Sent: 28 December 2010 14:13
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: [CATLEY] BVRI and Horne, Surrey Catleys
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I have been delving into the above family. The children of John and
>> Elizabeth are listed on the database under Catley, the source being the
>> BVRI. I can't find any of these entries on any of the websites I
>> subscribe
>> to, or the Latter Day Saints one. I wanted to check "first hand", well
>> as
>> best I can remotely anyway, these earliest entries. So can I check out
>> these
>> Catley entries on-line please. The spelling of the name of this family
>> is
>> all over the place and I'm pretty certain it moved away from Catley to
>> Kateley.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Jocelyn
>>
>>
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