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There was some correspondence a while back about Thomas the father of Bertram Sydney Catley. I am not sure how confident we were in tracing him back to Hull. Looking for another bankrupt Thomas, I stumbled on the following, which suggests he first went to Kent. Bertram's service records are now on Findmypast. There are two sets, one shows him entitled to the South African Medal (Anglo-Boer War), the other has only a transcript with a link to the wrong set of images. Anthony
THE LONDON GAZETTE, MAY 29, 1863
Thomas Catley, of No. 20, Evelyn-street, Deptford, Kent, Wood Carver, formerly of Dockside, Hull, Yorkshire, having been adjudged bankrupt, under a Petition for adjudication of Bankruptcy, filed in Her Majesty's Court of Bankruptcy in London, on the 8th day of May, 1863, a public sitting for the said bankrupt to pass his Last Examination, and make application for his Discharge, will be held before Edward Holroyd, Esq., a Commissioner of the said Court, on the 27th day of June next, at the said Court, at Basinghall-street, in the city of London, at one o'clock in the afternoon precisely, the day last aforesaid being the day limited for the said bankrupt to surrender, Mr. Edward Watkin Edwards, of No. 22, Basinghall-street, London, is the Official Assignee, and Mr. W. W. Aldrid>e. of No. 46, Moorgate-street, is the Solicitor acting in the bankruptcy.
>Anthony, am obliged to you once more for the latest research results and am
>amazed by the amount of time you put in so freely on Census searches to
>assist others. Certainly I think that your latest re William Joseph Catley
>(I have failed to keep up with you and Liz re the latest Garforth news!)
>most certainly merits a new tree of :- George of Marylebone.
The recurring number of Marylebone Catley entries has been a source of
interest to me for some time now and one of those :- "must get round to it"
issues that never happens! However you have rolled the ball into the field
on it, so lets see where it takes us ?
Your information has enabled me to turn quite a number of entries to the
"accounted from unaccounted" status which is a big bonus.
George m Elizabeth Jane Harrell I had as 29/7/1832 All Saint's Marylebone
plus children : Elizabeth Lavinia bt 29/6/1834 , Emily Elizabeth bt
7/8/1836 and George bt 30/9/1838 all @ St James', Westminster although the
10 day old (1841 cens) has defeated me except I note, for a GRO birth which
for some unknown reason I have entered as Edwin Catley St?
James?.......... Ellen // Edwin.........possibly? William Joseph 1/4 1846 I
already had as you know plus Henry 2/4 1853 as well.
Keeping on the Marylebone // Westminster district area / theme : I note
that between 1839 and 1852 there are another nine Cat*ley births recorded,
some at St James' but as you have not made comment ex Census pinpointed on
George+Elizabeth Jane, I assume (dangerous I know?!) that they could well be
to do with William Catley and wife nee Sparrow who's 1st child William
Joseph appears bt St James (Westminster) 1837.
More interesting maybe are the GRO deaths recorded for :- George Catley 1/4
1854 St James' and especially so given the second Christian name is that of
George Joseph Catley 2/4 1857 St James' West.
I have failed to find anything for a William Joseph Catley+Georgina Edeosha
Thorburn son by the name of William Thorburn Catley who from your Census
extracts should have been born 1878 or 1879 or thereabouts, the Doncaster
bir GRO 2/4 1880 looks to be a William Thirlwall Catley and also noted is
the William Catley b 2/11/1882 Camberwell.
Will enter up the new : George of Marylebone as another tree on my main bmd
database.
Many thanks
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 4:40 PM
Subject: [CATLEY] William Thorburn Catley
> Tim: Are 3 generations enough to start a tree? In three successive
> censuses William Thorburn of Caldewgate has a grandson living with him
> enumerated as William Catley (1881 aged 3), William Thorburn (1891 aged
> 12) anf William Thorburn Catley (1901 aged 22). FreeBMD suggests two
> possible spouses for William Joseph Catley. One of these is Georgina
> Edeosha Thorburn. Thus your unaccounted Catley now has a Father and
> Mother, putative siblings, a wife, in-laws and a son. The son could have
> been born Carlisle (1891, 1901) or London (1881). It would be nice to add
> a fourth generation but I cannot find him in 1911. (Note: there is another
> William T. Catley of about the same age born in Doncaster, which is
> potential source of confusion). Anthony
>
> ________________________________________
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
> Of Tim Cattley [felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk]
> Sent: 04 October 2010 12:30
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] William Joseph Catley
>
> Looks like William Joseph Catley stuck to his plans. GRO has him birth
> reg
> 1/4 Marylebone1846 and GRO mar reg Carlisle 3/4 1875.
>
> I have him down as an "unaccounted Catley in my register.
>
> Tim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 7:13 AM
> Subject: [CATLEY] William Joseph Catley
>
>
>> Hi Liz, Looked to see if the gap could be explained by soldiering. It
>> couldn't but in the process I found a William Joseph Catley born around
>> 1845 in Marylebone who planned to settle in Carlisle on discharge. Does
>> this fill a gap for anyone? Anthony
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
>> Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
>> Sent: 03 October 2010 22:23
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: [CATLEY] Edward Catley
>>
>> Hi Anthony, Can you please have a look for Edward Catley b 1828 married
>> to
>> Catherine. I have him on the 41 51 91 census but can't find him in
>> between. Also his brother William b 1831 both Garforth.
>> Thanks
>> Liz
>>
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Tim: Are 3 generations enough to start a tree? In three successive censuses William Thorburn of Caldewgate has a grandson living with him enumerated as William Catley (1881 aged 3), William Thorburn (1891 aged 12) anf William Thorburn Catley (1901 aged 22). FreeBMD suggests two possible spouses for William Joseph Catley. One of these is Georgina Edeosha Thorburn. Thus your unaccounted Catley now has a Father and Mother, putative siblings, a wife, in-laws and a son. The son could have been born Carlisle (1891, 1901) or London (1881). It would be nice to add a fourth generation but I cannot find him in 1911. (Note: there is another William T. Catley of about the same age born in Doncaster, which is potential source of confusion). Anthony
________________________________________
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tim Cattley [felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk]
Sent: 04 October 2010 12:30
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] William Joseph Catley
Looks like William Joseph Catley stuck to his plans. GRO has him birth reg
1/4 Marylebone1846 and GRO mar reg Carlisle 3/4 1875.
I have him down as an "unaccounted Catley in my register.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 7:13 AM
Subject: [CATLEY] William Joseph Catley
> Hi Liz, Looked to see if the gap could be explained by soldiering. It
> couldn't but in the process I found a William Joseph Catley born around
> 1845 in Marylebone who planned to settle in Carlisle on discharge. Does
> this fill a gap for anyone? Anthony
>
> ________________________________________
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
> Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
> Sent: 03 October 2010 22:23
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: [CATLEY] Edward Catley
>
> Hi Anthony, Can you please have a look for Edward Catley b 1828 married to
> Catherine. I have him on the 41 51 91 census but can't find him in
> between. Also his brother William b 1831 both Garforth.
> Thanks
> Liz
>
> -------------------------------
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> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
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He is a bit difficult to work out. In 1851 he is somebody's grandson; it is not clear whose. In 1861 he is the son-in-law of Ralph and Elizabeth Jane Hindmarsh. Actually this was still a common law marriage but it was consecrated in 1862 and the bride was Elizabeth Jane Catley widow (née Harrell). Her first marriage on 29 July 1832 was to George Catley. So now you have a shrub if not quite a tree. In 1841, before William Joseph was thought of, Geo. 30 and Eliz. 25 were living with children Eliz. 7, Emily 5, Geo. 10 and Ellen 10 days. In 1861 Mrs Hindmarch had with her Elizabeth now 25, William, Agnes 8, Henry 7 all Catleys. So quite a bushy shrub.
William Joseph himself served with the 1st Bn. 12th Regiment of Foot from 13 May 1863 to 11 May 1874 but forfeited pension for all but the last 210 days as he deserted twice; on the first occasion he was convicted of a felony by the civil powers. He was discharged as unfit for service due to TB. I did not find him in 1881 (or at any later date in Cumberland). I suspect that he returned to London after his wife died. At Holborn in 1891 here is a William J Catley 45 widower merchant's clerk b. Marylebone. If so he is at a registered lodging house in Holborn in 1911 66 widower commercial clerk born London.
Anthony
-----Original Message-----
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [mailto:catley-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tim Cattley
Sent: 4. oktober 2010 12:31
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] William Joseph Catley
Looks like William Joseph Catley stuck to his plans. GRO has him birth reg
1/4 Marylebone1846 and GRO mar reg Carlisle 3/4 1875.
I have him down as an "unaccounted Catley in my register.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 7:13 AM
Subject: [CATLEY] William Joseph Catley
> Hi Liz, Looked to see if the gap could be explained by soldiering. It
> couldn't but in the process I found a William Joseph Catley born around
> 1845 in Marylebone who planned to settle in Carlisle on discharge. Does
> this fill a gap for anyone? Anthony
>
> ________________________________________
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
> Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
> Sent: 03 October 2010 22:23
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: [CATLEY] Edward Catley
>
> Hi Anthony, Can you please have a look for Edward Catley b 1828 married to
> Catherine. I have him on the 41 51 91 census but can't find him in
> between. Also his brother William b 1831 both Garforth.
> Thanks
> Liz
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
> -------------------------------
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I take it you wanted me to try alternatives to Ancestry. No luck with findmypast. An outside chance in Staffs 1871 is Edward Cathie miner born Capetown Yorks (The Genealogist). I cannot find a Capetown on Googlemaps, but that is what is written. Could either or both have been merchant seamen? I expect you have checked NA online for RN and come up with a blank. I tried the Army service records on findmypast without success. Anthony
________________________________________
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: 03 October 2010 22:23
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [CATLEY] Edward Catley
Hi Anthony, Can you please have a look for Edward Catley b 1828 married to Catherine. I have him on the 41 51 91 census but can't find him in between. Also his brother William b 1831 both Garforth.
Thanks
Liz
-------------------------------
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Hi Liz, Looked to see if the gap could be explained by soldiering. It couldn't but in the process I found a William Joseph Catley born around 1845 in Marylebone who planned to settle in Carlisle on discharge. Does this fill a gap for anyone? Anthony
________________________________________
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: 03 October 2010 22:23
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [CATLEY] Edward Catley
Hi Anthony, Can you please have a look for Edward Catley b 1828 married to Catherine. I have him on the 41 51 91 census but can't find him in between. Also his brother William b 1831 both Garforth.
Thanks
Liz
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Hi Anthony, Can you please have a look for Edward Catley b 1828 married to Catherine. I have him on the 41 51 91 census but can't find him in between. Also his brother William b 1831 both Garforth.
Thanks
Liz
Mary possibly died 1847. He then remarried as you say and had John Henry by
the second marriage she was born in Witham Essex abt 1834
Liz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Another possible Robert Garforth puzzle?
> Hi Liz,
> Thomas is living with Mary at Jubilee Street in 1841 and by her name a Y
> has been changed to No so I cannot see that one marriage rules out the
> other. However, I cannot find a record of her burial on Ancestry. The
> second wife possibly died of "decay of nature" 16 April 1892 aged 82 at
> MEOT Infirmary. (For listers not familiar with East London, Mile End Old
> Town and Stepney are both in the present day Tower Hamlets RD.) Anthony
>
> ________________________________________
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
> Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
> Sent: 03 October 2010 01:15
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Another possible Robert Garforth puzzle?
>
> Hi Anthony,
> Now you have thrown me as I have Thomas marrying Mary Ann Bullance in
> Leeds
> 1834.
> Liz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 9:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Another possible Robert Garforth puzzle?
>
>
>> Liz: We are now in harmony. Perhaps this is known but said Thomas was a
>> widower when he married Mary Ann Smith widow (nee Eatherton) at St Anne
>> Limehouse on 24 June 1841 and we have from this that his father was
>> Thomas
>> Catley miner. Interestingly the groom is described as Gentleman.
>> Witnesses
>> are Nancy Eatherton and Matthew scribble. Anthony
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
>> Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
>> Sent: 02 October 2010 19:41
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Another possible Robert Garforth puzzle?
>>
>> Well Tim, Funny you should mention that!! I have just gone through the
>> records the same as you. No I couldn't find anything for Charles b 1795
>> which is odd considering all the other children are on there. So I have
>> come
>> up with 2 possible answers. 1, he was born 1814 but still to Thomas and
>> Ann
>> Fletcher. He definitely belongs to this tree. Also that no marriage to
>> Elizabeth existed. He also lives a few doors down from brother Thomas on
>> the
>> census in Stepney. 2, He was born in Haslewood where Ann Fletcher comes
>> from.
>> The other thing I noticed was a marriage for Samuel Robinson and Alice
>> Catley of Leeds. Could this Samuel be the son of Ann Catley and Samuel
>> Robinson. Therefore making them cousins!!!
>> Also there is a birth for a child (forget name) to William and Jane. Was
>> William born 1771 married before he married Mary Cawood.
>> As Robert and Mary Shillito had children in Featherstone could Robert
>> have
>> also come from there as there are a few records prior to this time for
>> Catley's
>> Liz
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
>> To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 5:55 PM
>> Subject: [CATLEY] Another possible Robert Garforth puzzle?
>>
>>
>>> Whilst there is quite some thinking going on between the more proficient
>>> Catley Rootsweb listers regarding Charles Catley of Garforth and his
>>> date
>>> of birth and whether or not he ever married an Elizabeth or indeed was
>>> born in Garforth in 1795 at all, I have been looking at the Garforth
>>> Registers as suggested helpfully by David M today and making a few
>>> comparisons on Cat*leys therein against the Yorks W.Riding PRO Registers
>>> supplied by Liz some time ago.
>>>
>>> My first searches threw up a few anomalies which raised curiosity rather
>>> than suspicion and then I went right back to the first entry we have for
>>> THE Robert Catley of Garforth who we have listed as bur Garforth
>>> 23/03/1764 supposedly born 1690 as age given at death is 74 years.
>>> David's Garforth Registers (pub 1913) confirm the burial of Robert
>>> Cattley
>>> on this date. However no Robert Cat*ley birth is to be found in this
>>> Register for 1690.
>>>
>>> However, in the YPR's W/Riding which of course include, as well as
>>> Garforth, such other Cat*ley hotspots as Normanton, Leeds, Bramham and
>>> Featherstone to quote but a few :- Bapt 27/12/1690 Bramham, Robart
>>> Catley
>>> son of John and Mary. John and Mary Catley are known members of the
>>> Stevan
>>> Catlay of Normanton tree and so it brings into question in my mind that
>>> here is a sporting possibility of a connection between the Normanton
>>> Catleys and the Garforth ones and I seem to recall that David voiced
>>> some
>>> comment to me in the same general direction some 18 months ago.
>>>
>>> We already have a dna connection between the Bilton in Ainstey and
>>> Normanton Catleys, can more concrete research tie all three large
>>> Yorkshire trees into one?
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>>> quotes
>>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
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>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>> -------------------------------
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>> quotes
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>
>
>
> -------------------------------
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Hi all,
Just a note to make my appreciation known to Anthony, Liz and David for their recent help. As a "collector" rather than "researcher" of Cat*ley ancestral events, I rely very heavily on your support and am always surprised (and delighted) just how you all respond so readily on all occasions.
Tim
______________________________________________
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Hi Anthony,
Now you have thrown me as I have Thomas marrying Mary Ann Bullance in Leeds
1834.
Liz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Another possible Robert Garforth puzzle?
> Liz: We are now in harmony. Perhaps this is known but said Thomas was a
> widower when he married Mary Ann Smith widow (nee Eatherton) at St Anne
> Limehouse on 24 June 1841 and we have from this that his father was Thomas
> Catley miner. Interestingly the groom is described as Gentleman. Witnesses
> are Nancy Eatherton and Matthew scribble. Anthony
>
> ________________________________________
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
> Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
> Sent: 02 October 2010 19:41
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Another possible Robert Garforth puzzle?
>
> Well Tim, Funny you should mention that!! I have just gone through the
> records the same as you. No I couldn't find anything for Charles b 1795
> which is odd considering all the other children are on there. So I have
> come
> up with 2 possible answers. 1, he was born 1814 but still to Thomas and
> Ann
> Fletcher. He definitely belongs to this tree. Also that no marriage to
> Elizabeth existed. He also lives a few doors down from brother Thomas on
> the
> census in Stepney. 2, He was born in Haslewood where Ann Fletcher comes
> from.
> The other thing I noticed was a marriage for Samuel Robinson and Alice
> Catley of Leeds. Could this Samuel be the son of Ann Catley and Samuel
> Robinson. Therefore making them cousins!!!
> Also there is a birth for a child (forget name) to William and Jane. Was
> William born 1771 married before he married Mary Cawood.
> As Robert and Mary Shillito had children in Featherstone could Robert have
> also come from there as there are a few records prior to this time for
> Catley's
> Liz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
> To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 5:55 PM
> Subject: [CATLEY] Another possible Robert Garforth puzzle?
>
>
>> Whilst there is quite some thinking going on between the more proficient
>> Catley Rootsweb listers regarding Charles Catley of Garforth and his date
>> of birth and whether or not he ever married an Elizabeth or indeed was
>> born in Garforth in 1795 at all, I have been looking at the Garforth
>> Registers as suggested helpfully by David M today and making a few
>> comparisons on Cat*leys therein against the Yorks W.Riding PRO Registers
>> supplied by Liz some time ago.
>>
>> My first searches threw up a few anomalies which raised curiosity rather
>> than suspicion and then I went right back to the first entry we have for
>> THE Robert Catley of Garforth who we have listed as bur Garforth
>> 23/03/1764 supposedly born 1690 as age given at death is 74 years.
>> David's Garforth Registers (pub 1913) confirm the burial of Robert
>> Cattley
>> on this date. However no Robert Cat*ley birth is to be found in this
>> Register for 1690.
>>
>> However, in the YPR's W/Riding which of course include, as well as
>> Garforth, such other Cat*ley hotspots as Normanton, Leeds, Bramham and
>> Featherstone to quote but a few :- Bapt 27/12/1690 Bramham, Robart
>> Catley
>> son of John and Mary. John and Mary Catley are known members of the
>> Stevan
>> Catlay of Normanton tree and so it brings into question in my mind that
>> here is a sporting possibility of a connection between the Normanton
>> Catleys and the Garforth ones and I seem to recall that David voiced some
>> comment to me in the same general direction some 18 months ago.
>>
>> We already have a dna connection between the Bilton in Ainstey and
>> Normanton Catleys, can more concrete research tie all three large
>> Yorkshire trees into one?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
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> in the subject and the body of the message
>
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Hi there,
Does anyone have these John Catleys associated with their trees:
John Catley bap 03 Jun 1777, born 1777 Melbourn, Cambs parents John and
Elizabeth
John Catley born 05 Aug 1776, bap 06 Oct 1776 StPeters,Leeds Yks father John
of Park Lane
John Catley bap 15 May 1778, born 1778, Faldingworth Lincs. Parents
William and Mary
Cheers
Jocelyn
Well Tim, Funny you should mention that!! I have just gone through the
records the same as you. No I couldn't find anything for Charles b 1795
which is odd considering all the other children are on there. So I have come
up with 2 possible answers. 1, he was born 1814 but still to Thomas and Ann
Fletcher. He definitely belongs to this tree. Also that no marriage to
Elizabeth existed. He also lives a few doors down from brother Thomas on the
census in Stepney. 2, He was born in Haslewood where Ann Fletcher comes
from.
The other thing I noticed was a marriage for Samuel Robinson and Alice
Catley of Leeds. Could this Samuel be the son of Ann Catley and Samuel
Robinson. Therefore making them cousins!!!
Also there is a birth for a child (forget name) to William and Jane. Was
William born 1771 married before he married Mary Cawood.
As Robert and Mary Shillito had children in Featherstone could Robert have
also come from there as there are a few records prior to this time for
Catley's
Liz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 5:55 PM
Subject: [CATLEY] Another possible Robert Garforth puzzle?
> Whilst there is quite some thinking going on between the more proficient
> Catley Rootsweb listers regarding Charles Catley of Garforth and his date
> of birth and whether or not he ever married an Elizabeth or indeed was
> born in Garforth in 1795 at all, I have been looking at the Garforth
> Registers as suggested helpfully by David M today and making a few
> comparisons on Cat*leys therein against the Yorks W.Riding PRO Registers
> supplied by Liz some time ago.
>
> My first searches threw up a few anomalies which raised curiosity rather
> than suspicion and then I went right back to the first entry we have for
> THE Robert Catley of Garforth who we have listed as bur Garforth
> 23/03/1764 supposedly born 1690 as age given at death is 74 years.
> David's Garforth Registers (pub 1913) confirm the burial of Robert Cattley
> on this date. However no Robert Cat*ley birth is to be found in this
> Register for 1690.
>
> However, in the YPR's W/Riding which of course include, as well as
> Garforth, such other Cat*ley hotspots as Normanton, Leeds, Bramham and
> Featherstone to quote but a few :- Bapt 27/12/1690 Bramham, Robart Catley
> son of John and Mary. John and Mary Catley are known members of the Stevan
> Catlay of Normanton tree and so it brings into question in my mind that
> here is a sporting possibility of a connection between the Normanton
> Catleys and the Garforth ones and I seem to recall that David voiced some
> comment to me in the same general direction some 18 months ago.
>
> We already have a dna connection between the Bilton in Ainstey and
> Normanton Catleys, can more concrete research tie all three large
> Yorkshire trees into one?
>
> Tim
>
> ______________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
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>
> -------------------------------
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Whilst there is quite some thinking going on between the more proficient Catley Rootsweb listers regarding Charles Catley of Garforth and his date of birth and whether or not he ever married an Elizabeth or indeed was born in Garforth in 1795 at all, I have been looking at the Garforth Registers as suggested helpfully by David M today and making a few comparisons on Cat*leys therein against the Yorks W.Riding PRO Registers supplied by Liz some time ago.
My first searches threw up a few anomalies which raised curiosity rather than suspicion and then I went right back to the first entry we have for THE Robert Catley of Garforth who we have listed as bur Garforth 23/03/1764 supposedly born 1690 as age given at death is 74 years. David's Garforth Registers (pub 1913) confirm the burial of Robert Cattley on this date. However no Robert Cat*ley birth is to be found in this Register for 1690.
However, in the YPR's W/Riding which of course include, as well as Garforth, such other Cat*ley hotspots as Normanton, Leeds, Bramham and Featherstone to quote but a few :- Bapt 27/12/1690 Bramham, Robart Catley son of John and Mary. John and Mary Catley are known members of the Stevan Catlay of Normanton tree and so it brings into question in my mind that here is a sporting possibility of a connection between the Normanton Catleys and the Garforth ones and I seem to recall that David voiced some comment to me in the same general direction some 18 months ago.
We already have a dna connection between the Bilton in Ainstey and Normanton Catleys, can more concrete research tie all three large Yorkshire trees into one?
Tim
______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
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Thanks David. It is clear that Thomas and Ann Catley married 1794 were still having children as late as 1811 so perhaps Charles came after 1812, when this register stops. If there is a record it has not been picked up on IGI; perhaps some kind lister could do a lookup? Anthony
________________________________________
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Meredith [david.meredith(a)live.co.uk]
Sent: 02 October 2010 11:23
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
Ref. Garforth P'sh Reg's, for an alternative online viewing source see:
www.archive.org/details/registerofparish46garf
Davic
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 10:01 AM
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
> Hi Liz,
> There are two fives a bit lower down on the page and they do not bear
> comparison with the first digit in Charles's age. Much more like this
> enumerator's three. It has fooled some transcribers, too. Certainly this
> is the only record that comes up when searching in the first four censuses
> for a Charles Catley born 1795! I don't buy it.
> Googlebooks has Garforth Parish Registers scanned from a book in the
> Brigham Young Library. It is a raw OTC scan so full of errors, so if a
> search does not help there is nothing for it but to scroll down. I did
> baptisms from 1794 to 1810 (the last year included) and did not find a
> Charles - indeed it struck me this was not a common first name at all.
> Where does the 1795 date for Charles come from? And can any lister supply
> the source for a Charles-Elizabeth marriage? Do you have a date for this
> marriage?
> Sorry to be such a spoilsport.
> Anthony
> ________________________________________
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
> Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
> Sent: 02 October 2010 09:37
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
>
> Hi Anthony
> On the 51 census I have a Charles b 1795 Garforth married to Susanna who
> was
> born 1819 living with children and a Eliza Grout. (spelt Grouh a visitor
> from Chigwell.) by 61 his age has changed to b 1814. He is a carpenter on
> both census. The 41 census he is with wife and Ann plus Ann Grout but his
> age changes to b 1816. 71 census he is born 1814. All the children are
> exactly the same and everything else is info I already had. The only thing
> is Elizabeth, perhaps she does not exist. Unless he married her in
> Garforth
> and she died before he came to London.
> Liz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
> To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 7:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
>
>
>> Hi Tim,
>> I think it quite a stretch to link Charles born 1795 to the Grout
>> marriage. (1) Susan(nah) Grout was 20 at the 1841 census and a minor in
>> the 1840 marriage register so there would be a pretty big discepancy in
>> age; (2) Indeed the Charles in question consistently claimed to be born
>> around 1815 in every record we have; (3) In the marriage register he is a
>> bachelor - remarriage was far from uncommon at this time and this would
>> be
>> the first instance in my experience where a widower was recorded as a
>> bachelor.
>> I remain to be convinced that there is such an easy fix.
>> Anthony
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
>> Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
>> Sent: 02 October 2010 00:01
>> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
>>
>> Hi Tim,
>> In a word no.
>> How do we know that he married Elizabeth. Was this from Kays research or
>> mine.
>> Liz
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
>> To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
>> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 10:37 PM
>> Subject: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
>>
>>
>>> Liz // Anthony,
>>>
>>> Re Charles b 1795, you now have made the confirmation of his marriage to
>>> Susan Grout 24/02/1840 St Geo in the East but do either of you have
>>> evidence re his first marriage to his purported wife Elizabeth?
>>>
>>> I have looked in Yorks BMD's and elsewhere and can neither find her
>>> marriage to him or her death.
>>>
>>> Any idas please?
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>>> quotes
>>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
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-------------------------------
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Liz: Charles Kateley otp bachelor and Elizabeth Bray otp spinster by banns 16 June 1811 St Pancras Parish Church. Winesses G Hamp (signs several entries), Ann Dace. Cannot find either spouse in 1841. There is a Charles Kateley widower in 1851. Could this be the guy? He is from Island of Jersey born about 1775. Anthony
________________________________________
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: 02 October 2010 09:37
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
Hi Anthony
On the 51 census I have a Charles b 1795 Garforth married to Susanna who was
born 1819 living with children and a Eliza Grout. (spelt Grouh a visitor
from Chigwell.) by 61 his age has changed to b 1814. He is a carpenter on
both census. The 41 census he is with wife and Ann plus Ann Grout but his
age changes to b 1816. 71 census he is born 1814. All the children are
exactly the same and everything else is info I already had. The only thing
is Elizabeth, perhaps she does not exist. Unless he married her in Garforth
and she died before he came to London.
Liz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
> Hi Tim,
> I think it quite a stretch to link Charles born 1795 to the Grout
> marriage. (1) Susan(nah) Grout was 20 at the 1841 census and a minor in
> the 1840 marriage register so there would be a pretty big discepancy in
> age; (2) Indeed the Charles in question consistently claimed to be born
> around 1815 in every record we have; (3) In the marriage register he is a
> bachelor - remarriage was far from uncommon at this time and this would be
> the first instance in my experience where a widower was recorded as a
> bachelor.
> I remain to be convinced that there is such an easy fix.
> Anthony
>
> ________________________________________
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
> Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
> Sent: 02 October 2010 00:01
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
>
> Hi Tim,
> In a word no.
> How do we know that he married Elizabeth. Was this from Kays research or
> mine.
> Liz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
> To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 10:37 PM
> Subject: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
>
>
>> Liz // Anthony,
>>
>> Re Charles b 1795, you now have made the confirmation of his marriage to
>> Susan Grout 24/02/1840 St Geo in the East but do either of you have
>> evidence re his first marriage to his purported wife Elizabeth?
>>
>> I have looked in Yorks BMD's and elsewhere and can neither find her
>> marriage to him or her death.
>>
>> Any idas please?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
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Hi Liz,
There are two fives a bit lower down on the page and they do not bear comparison with the first digit in Charles's age. Much more like this enumerator's three. It has fooled some transcribers, too. Certainly this is the only record that comes up when searching in the first four censuses for a Charles Catley born 1795! I don't buy it.
Googlebooks has Garforth Parish Registers scanned from a book in the Brigham Young Library. It is a raw OTC scan so full of errors, so if a search does not help there is nothing for it but to scroll down. I did baptisms from 1794 to 1810 (the last year included) and did not find a Charles - indeed it struck me this was not a common first name at all.
Where does the 1795 date for Charles come from? And can any lister supply the source for a Charles-Elizabeth marriage? Do you have a date for this marriage?
Sorry to be such a spoilsport.
Anthony
________________________________________
From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: 02 October 2010 09:37
To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
Hi Anthony
On the 51 census I have a Charles b 1795 Garforth married to Susanna who was
born 1819 living with children and a Eliza Grout. (spelt Grouh a visitor
from Chigwell.) by 61 his age has changed to b 1814. He is a carpenter on
both census. The 41 census he is with wife and Ann plus Ann Grout but his
age changes to b 1816. 71 census he is born 1814. All the children are
exactly the same and everything else is info I already had. The only thing
is Elizabeth, perhaps she does not exist. Unless he married her in Garforth
and she died before he came to London.
Liz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
> Hi Tim,
> I think it quite a stretch to link Charles born 1795 to the Grout
> marriage. (1) Susan(nah) Grout was 20 at the 1841 census and a minor in
> the 1840 marriage register so there would be a pretty big discepancy in
> age; (2) Indeed the Charles in question consistently claimed to be born
> around 1815 in every record we have; (3) In the marriage register he is a
> bachelor - remarriage was far from uncommon at this time and this would be
> the first instance in my experience where a widower was recorded as a
> bachelor.
> I remain to be convinced that there is such an easy fix.
> Anthony
>
> ________________________________________
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
> Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
> Sent: 02 October 2010 00:01
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
>
> Hi Tim,
> In a word no.
> How do we know that he married Elizabeth. Was this from Kays research or
> mine.
> Liz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
> To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 10:37 PM
> Subject: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
>
>
>> Liz // Anthony,
>>
>> Re Charles b 1795, you now have made the confirmation of his marriage to
>> Susan Grout 24/02/1840 St Geo in the East but do either of you have
>> evidence re his first marriage to his purported wife Elizabeth?
>>
>> I have looked in Yorks BMD's and elsewhere and can neither find her
>> marriage to him or her death.
>>
>> Any idas please?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
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Hi Anthony
On the 51 census I have a Charles b 1795 Garforth married to Susanna who was
born 1819 living with children and a Eliza Grout. (spelt Grouh a visitor
from Chigwell.) by 61 his age has changed to b 1814. He is a carpenter on
both census. The 41 census he is with wife and Ann plus Ann Grout but his
age changes to b 1816. 71 census he is born 1814. All the children are
exactly the same and everything else is info I already had. The only thing
is Elizabeth, perhaps she does not exist. Unless he married her in Garforth
and she died before he came to London.
Liz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony M. Carter" <ACarter(a)health.sdu.dk>
To: <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
> Hi Tim,
> I think it quite a stretch to link Charles born 1795 to the Grout
> marriage. (1) Susan(nah) Grout was 20 at the 1841 census and a minor in
> the 1840 marriage register so there would be a pretty big discepancy in
> age; (2) Indeed the Charles in question consistently claimed to be born
> around 1815 in every record we have; (3) In the marriage register he is a
> bachelor - remarriage was far from uncommon at this time and this would be
> the first instance in my experience where a widower was recorded as a
> bachelor.
> I remain to be convinced that there is such an easy fix.
> Anthony
>
> ________________________________________
> From: catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com [catley-bounces(a)rootsweb.com] On Behalf
> Of lizcordingley [lizcordingley(a)blueyonder.co.uk]
> Sent: 02 October 2010 00:01
> To: catley(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
>
> Hi Tim,
> In a word no.
> How do we know that he married Elizabeth. Was this from Kays research or
> mine.
> Liz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
> To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 10:37 PM
> Subject: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
>
>
>> Liz // Anthony,
>>
>> Re Charles b 1795, you now have made the confirmation of his marriage to
>> Susan Grout 24/02/1840 St Geo in the East but do either of you have
>> evidence re his first marriage to his purported wife Elizabeth?
>>
>> I have looked in Yorks BMD's and elsewhere and can neither find her
>> marriage to him or her death.
>>
>> Any idas please?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
>> quotes
>> in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message
Hi Tim,
In a word no.
How do we know that he married Elizabeth. Was this from Kays research or
mine.
Liz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Cattley" <felis(a)mypostoffice.co.uk>
To: "catley @rootsweb" <catley(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 10:37 PM
Subject: [CATLEY] Robertof Garforth tree
> Liz // Anthony,
>
> Re Charles b 1795, you now have made the confirmation of his marriage to
> Susan Grout 24/02/1840 St Geo in the East but do either of you have
> evidence re his first marriage to his purported wife Elizabeth?
>
> I have looked in Yorks BMD's and elsewhere and can neither find her
> marriage to him or her death.
>
> Any idas please?
>
> Tim
>
> ______________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CATLEY-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
> in the subject and the body of the message