Dawn,
I am not sure if I will address all of your concerns, but I certainly hope
so. Thanks to you I have somewhat revitalized my research on Richard
Carver, as hard as it must be. Just going through the census indicates we
must have two Richard Carvers, one who resided in Virginia 1810 and 1820 and
yours in SC in 1800, 1810, 1820, and 1830.
What surprises me is that in the 1800 and 1810 census younger Richard and
Joseph Carver are enumerated on the same page, thus somewhat proving that
the Joseph/James Carver bearing testimony on Richard's behalf could be he.
However, looking further in 1810, there is also another Joseph and two
Thomas Carvers enumerated on the same page in Spartanburg that year. In
1820, they must be further apart as they are on separate pages, but a slew
of Carvers on the page with Richard. Again separate in 1830 and Richard is
alone on this page.
1840 census becomes the interesting one for two reasons. First, in this year
the question was asked, "Pensioners for Revolutionary or Military Services
included in the Forgoing." Richard Carver the Pensioner applied for his
pension 12 Mar 1833. According to his Pension Records, he was first paid Mar
1833 and again Sep 1833. His last payment was received for the 1st Quarter
of 1853, until his death. We also have a pay record for March 1849- Mar
1853so he was definitely on the pension from 1833-1853. For 20 years he was
paid a pension for his service during the Revolutionary War, a very noble
deed, but yet he neglected to tell the census taker of this. Now I know how
lax the census takers were supposed to be, so let's not debate that, but
regardless of how people feel about veterans today, if you lived in the same
neighborhood or area in the 1840's you knew a veteran or at least someone
who
claimed to have served! No way, not taking ANY excuses for this person to
not be listed as such. In this census Richard 70-80 along with an younger
Asa Carver 20-30 next door and a Martin 30-40 on the page. Also a 80-90 is
on another page and he too does not claim Revolutionary War service. Ok
one, maybe, two.......... even though on Joseph's page there is a John
Verner[sp] a few names down listed as such. **Not ruling out other
possibilities either.**
I know this does not disprove absolutely, but sure as heck raises a great
deal of suspicion of this Richard and Joseph.
1850 census I am not real sure what is going on there I guess Richard was
moving and getting older 86 in Aug and 88 in Oct of 1850 Living with William
first and then Asa.
I find it interesting that Richard is found in Virginia from 1776 to 1820
and then disappears and that your Richard from 1800-1850 in Spartanburg and
on to Pickens.
We definitely require more research, but will we find the answers?
Regards,
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dawn Watson" <dncresearch(a)gmail.com>
To: "Carver mailing list, Rootsweb" <CARVER(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 2:57 PM
Subject: [CARVER] Richard and James Carver discussion
Steve,
I apologize for the delay. My e-mail is giving me fits today. I was able
to
read your reply, but am having a hard time replying from that reply (if
that makes sense). So, I'm going from memory here and if I miss something,
don't be afraid to ask again. (Or, when I am able to access your reply and
see that I missed something, I'll send another message if needs be.)
First, I appreciate it when people pick holes in my logic. Makes me a
better thinker.
Also, I completely forgot to tell you why I'm concerned with this family.
I
can "prove" my Carver heritage back to William Carver, born about 1796/7
in
Spartanburg Dist., SC, and died in Rabun Co., GA. William married
Elizabeth
Morris, possibly in Georgia, and they lived very near the boundary between
Rabun County and SC (Pickens District, later Oconee County). William is
believed to have been a son of this Richard Carver (of pension application
fame).
I live in Rabun County, and so am fairly near to where at least some of
the
records for these families are held. I had hoped later this year to
perform
some in-depth research on my various OPD ancestors, but (as you said) the
price of gas may prohibit extraneous travel.
Per railroads, I'm not certain how close the nearest railroad would have
been to this area in the early 1830s. I don't believe (and I'll have to
check on this) that there was a railroad in Pickens District at that time
(I think the earliest one was in the 1850s???), although that certainly
wouldn't prohibit their use for at least part of a journey. Regardless, my
point was more toward the difficulty of travel in 1833. Which is why I
mentioned mail. If James Carver were living in KY in 1833, it would have
been far cheaper and easier to obtain an affidavit by mail. If so, then
the
affidavit would've reflected that *but it didn't*. It clearly stated that
the person giving the affidavit did so in Pickens District. Frankly, why
go
to all that trouble if there were someone who lived close by? (More on
that
in a moment.)
I neglected to mention this in my original reply (and I do apologize for
that), but the reason I spent so much attention on the affidavit was
because, as I read it, this was one of your key pieces of evidence to
connect Richard of SC to James of KY.
My experience with pension applications for this war is less a matter of
how many and more a matter of where. With a few exceptions, the bulk of
the
Revolutionary War pension applications I've read were made by men
living here (Northeast GA, Western NC, Upstate SC). This area was (and
still is, in some ways) geographically isolated and so most affidavits by
witnesses to service were, indeed, drawn from neighbors and nearby kin. I
did use qualifiers to indicate that I did not believe *all* affidavits
were
made that way, but your point about using witnesses from other locations
merely proves the point I was trying to make: if such witnesses were used,
the affidavits should have reflected their physical locations.
The significance of the Joseph/James error may be something we'll have to
agree to disagree on for the time being. I'm not a hardliner on evidence
and proof because I know that any conclusion made, no matter how firm the
evidence or how thorough previous research, can be overturned by
information from the most unexpected source.
I know I'm missing something. If I can't open that e-mail by the end of
the
day, then I will simply go to Rootsweb and check the digest. (I think it's
an ISP problem. While I've been writing this e-mail, I've lost
connectivity
at least three times. Frustrating.)
One final thing. There are plenty of people who have been able to solve
problems like this, although sometimes, yes, with a great deal of time and
expense. Rachel Mills Lennon is a professional genealogist who specializes
in hard-to-solve Southern research problems. If you go to her blog you'll
find a two-part example of how she identified a married couple who resided
in the old Spartanburg and Pendleton Districts. Part of her evidence was
drawn from a Revolutionary War pension application. Fascinating stuff.
Anyway, between the two of us, and perhaps with the help of others, maybe
we can knock our heads together to set these families aright.
Dawn Watson
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
CARVER-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes
in the subject and the body of the message