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Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FAI.2ACIB/876
Message Board Post:
Please email me at taketwo(a)mediaone.net
if you have this woman in your line. Thanks.
Richard
It is my "opinion" that the spelling of Garber or Gerber might derive from
two different possibilities. First, both names mean the same -- tanner.
One possibility is the dialect of a certain area. There wasn't a firm rule
on spelling in the beginning and how the dialect caused the name to be
pronounced, determined the spelling by the clerics. This would also lend
credence to a man named Garber being from one area in "Germany" and "Gerber"
from another. If we assume that the spelling is consistent with the name
PRIOR to coming to America, we could then separate the two families, but
WHEN? The names would have been adopted in the 1200s and could have been
changed by a local cleric at any time.
The second possibility is that the name (spelling only) was altered after
arriving in America -- either early or later. That is how Carver was
determined. It just evolved. I doubt if there was much to do about it.
As an example my surname is Abigt. For years, Germans said to me "that is
not a German name -- it doesn't "spell" anything". After much research I
determined that a man who was born in 1704 had a father named Abicht and all
of his brothers used that name. However, this particular man moved 10 miles
to another parish. In 1732, when his first child was born in the new parish,
the pastor wrote Abigt (cht and gt being interchangeable) and thus all of
the descendants kept the name. At least for two generations. Those who
remained in Germany, often times reverted to the "cht" spelling because they
moved again. So, Abicht doesn't spell anything either. But, a dialect of a
certain area turned Albrecht (which is a first name and one of the basics for
German names) does spell something -- and it became Abicht in the early
1400s.
My point is that Garber and Gerber are not necessarily two different
families, but the difference in spelling is a hint that we might look in two
different areas with a different dialect.
I feel like all of the rest of you.....looking for Carvers who were German is
difficult job. For years, I thought our Carver family was English. Then I
found them buried in a German church cemetery.
Marilyn
This (the Garver/Gerber/Carver confusion) might explain the problem.
After reading the posts by yourself, Marilyn, and Kay, I'm firmly
convinced that there are two different families involved. It may well
be that it was "Garver", rather than "Gerber", for my ancestor. The
site that you listed below is very interesting and I had not known of it
before, thanks!
If anyone has any information on the ancestry of these Carvers, please
share! I'll post the received info here and on the Haywood Co., NC
genealogy list, as many of my Carver kin still live there.
Christopher Carver b. 1756 in Lancaster Co., Pa, d. 1850 in NC m.
Elizabeth Whisenhunt b. 1775 in NC, d. 1860 in NC. Children:
Joseph Carver, b. 1797
Jacob Adam Carver, b. 1799
Thomas Carver, b. 1800 or 1801
David Carver, b. 1803, d. 1870 in Haywood Co., NC, buried in Rice
Cemetery, Haywood Co., NC, m. Orpha Hannah in 1824 in Haywood Co., NC.
4 children.
Lucy Carver, b. 1812
Nancy Carver, b. 1815
Alexander Carver, b. 1817
James Carver, b. 1818
David Carver's descendants in my particular family tree branch:
Absulom B. Carver ("Alps"), b. March 3, 1830 at Fine's Creek, Haywood
Co., NC, d. 1865 in Haywood Co., NC, m. Mary Cagle, b. 1835 in Catawba
Co., NC, d. March 24, 1919 in Haywood Co., NC.
Their son, Silas Little John Carver, b. October 06, 1858 in Haywood Co.,
NC, d. January 15, 1942 in Haywood Co., NC was my great grandfather. He
was married to Maggie Henson in Haywood Co., NC on November 01, 1885.
Maggie was b. June 01, 1868 in Madison, NC and d. January 30, 1966 in
Waynesville, NC. They had four children, and their daughter Leona was
my grandmother.
Thanks!
Roy Carver Bruce
"Douglas M. Garber" wrote:
>
> Hi Bruce and List,
> I am interested in your CARVER/GERBER line. I read an English translation
> of my 4th gg Johannes GERBER's estate papers (he d 1777 Berks Co., PA), and
> found that he was referred to GARVER, not GERBER, although they were filed
> under "John GERBER". I then realized how big a problem the Anglicizing of
> the Mennonite surnames actually was to compiling a genealogical record.
> Are you familiar with this web site
> http://members.aol.com./~srgarver/index.htm ? Is there anyone listed
> there that you recognize as being your ancestor? Our GERBER ancestor is
> supposed be letter "O," who arrived on the "Phoenix" in 1750. Another one,
> letter "D," is one I would like to claim as ours, perhaps the father of
> "O," which should read b 1704, not 1713. Look at the references on this
> site -- you might find something of interest.
> Can you tell the list a bit more about your CARVERs in PA? Where did they
> live? What was their religious affiliation? Did they migrate
> westward? Thanks.
>
> Doug Garber
>
> At 12:27 PM 9/30/01 -0400, Oldreds wrote:
> >I'm expanding the recipient list on this to include both the Carver and
> >Gerber mailing lists as it concerns both.
> >
> >Thank you very, very, very much for this information. I've traced the
> >Gerber line back to an Andreas Thomas Gerber, b. May 06, 1564 in
> >Gruenhain, Zwickau, Sachsen (Saxony, Germany). If anyone has additional
> >info our would like my list or gedcom file, please let me know.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Roy Carver Bruce
> >
> >AbigtM(a)aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm very interested in this, as I'm descended from a Christopher
> > > Carver of Lancaster, PA (who moved to North Carolina and married).
> > > Now I've heard it discussed -- without any clear documentation either
> > > way -- that Christopher was the son of a Michael Gerber, born in 1722
> > > in Lancaster Co., PA, and that the name Gerber was confused into
> > > Carver due to his Germanic accent.
> > >
> > > What you've found may contradict this, and I'd be very interested in
> > > learning more.
> > >
> > > IN REPLY
> > >
> > > Yes, your understanding is true. The will of Michael Gerber was first
> > > written in German and then later translated into English. Michael and
> > > his family (including son Christian) lived in PA. Christian served in
> > > the Rev. War. from PA. Michael died and is buried in the area where
> > > his son Christopher (Christoph/Christian) Carver (Gerber) lived in
> > > North Carolina prior to the family migrating into TN, then KY, (some
> > > OH) and into IN. After this time (Christopher returned to NC to marry
> > > his sister-in-law and after the death of one of his son's) the
> > > remainder of the Christian Carver family moved to Illinois where he
> > > died. This line has been documented. We are still concerned about
> > > the entry into the US of Christian. We do BELIEVE that we know the
> > > time and place but these matters are very difficult to PROVE.
> > > However, the evidence is overwhelming in our favor.
> > >
> > > Marilyn Abigt
> >
> >--
> >First they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not
> >a Jew.
> >Then they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out because I was
> >not a
> >Communist.
> >Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because
> >I was not a
> >trade unionist.
> >Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
> >Protestant.
> >Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me.
> >-- Paraphrased from Martin Niemöller's 1968 statement before the U.S.
> >Congress
> >
> >
> >==============================
> >Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com!
> >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp
>
> ==============================
> Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1
> Source for Family History Online. Go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB
--
First they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not
a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out because I was
not a
Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because
I was not a
trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
Protestant.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me.
-- Paraphrased from Martin Niemöller's 1968 statement before the U.S.
Congress
There are two "well-known" Christian/Christopher (spelled both ways in
different records) --
Re the Christian/Christorpher Carver (son of Michael) who married the two
Ziegler girls:
Descendants of Michael Carver
1 Michael Carver b: in Prob. Germany d: 04 January 1783 in
Surry Co., NC
.. +Anna Magdalena m: Bef. 1759 d: January 1808 in Stokes
Co., NC
2 Anna Maria Carver d: Aft. 1783
2 Elizabeth Carver d: Aft. 1783
2 Christian Carver b: 1759 in Northampton Co., PA d: 14
March 1836 in Sangamon Co., IL
.... +Magdalena Ziegler b: Abt. 1755 m: Abt. 1784 d: Abt.
1800
.. 3 Michael Carver b: Bet. 1784 - 1787 in Surry Co., NC d:
Abt. 1818 in Prob. IN
...... +Elizabeth Chandler b: Abt. 1780 in North Carolina m: 21
July 1804 in Surry Co., NC d: Abt. 1834 in Illinois Father: William
Chandler
.. 3 Elvira Carver b: Bet. 1784 - 1790 in NC d: Bet. 1830 -
1833 in Sangamon Co., IL, C Carver Fam Cem
.. 3 John Carver b: Bet. 1784 - 1790 in NC d: Bet. 1832 -
1833 in Switzerland Co., IN
...... +Margaret Hoover b: 1792 in OH m: 20 August 1810 in
Montgomery Co., OH d: 1871 in Switzerland Co., IN
.. 3 Jacob Carver b: 10 March 1787 in Surry Co., NC d: 27
September 1833 in Dayton, Montgomery Co., OH
...... +Elizabeth Hoover b: 08 December 1784 in VA m: 08
December 1808 in Greene Co., OH d: 08 November 1857 in Springfield,
Sangamon Co., IL
.. 3 William Carver b: Abt. 1794 in NC d: Bet. 1873 - 1880
in Gallatin Co., KY
...... +Judith Clarke b: Bet. 1797 - 1801 in KY m: in Garrard
Co., KY d: Bet. 1870 - 1873
.. 3 George Carver b: Bet. 1795 - 1800 in Stokes Co., NC d:
August 1839 in Newton Co., MO, Moses C Fam Cem
...... +Sarah Jane Hoover b: Bet. 1795 - 1800 in NC m: 28
November 1819 in Switzerland Co., IN d: Bet. 1834 - 1836 in Sangamon Co.,
IL
*2nd Wife of Christian Carver:
.... +Mary Ziegler b: 25 December 1782 in NC m: 18 September
1801 in NC d: 24 December 1869 in Kleburg, Dallas Co., TX
.. 3 Richard S. Carver b: 09 April 1804 in Montgomery Co., OH
d: 18 March 1873 in Cherokee Co., KS
...... +Mary Jane Simmons b: 1808 in VA m: 24 November 1827 in
Springfield, Sangamon Co., IL d: 1862 in Lawrence, Douglas Co., KS
.. 3 Abraham Carver b: 1806 in Montgomery Co., OH d: 1883
in Dallas Co., TX
...... +Sarah Pettyjohn b: Bet. 1800 - 1810 m: 11 May 1828 in
Sangamon Co., IL d: Bef. 1836 in IL
.. *2nd Wife of Abraham Carver:
...... +Elizabeth Cline b: 1819 in KY m: 26 March 1836 in
Sangamon Co., IL
.. 3 Solomon Carver b: 1809 in Montgomery Co., OH d: 10
October 1870 in Dallas Co., TX
...... +Lucinda Pettyjohn b: Bet. 1810 - 1815
.. *2nd Wife of Solomon Carver:
...... +Ellen Wilcox b: 1820 in AL d: 1861 in Dallas Co.,
TX
.. *3rd Wife of Solomon Carver:
...... +Elizabeth Shuffield
.. *4th Wife of Solomon Carver:
...... +Mary Ann Bromfield b: Bet. 1810 - 1820 m: 06 February
1834 in Springfield, Sangamon Co., IL
.. 3 Moses Carver b: 29 August 1812 in Montgomery Co., OH
d: 20 December 1910 in Galena, Cherokee Co., KS
...... +Susan Blue b: 13 June 1814 in OH m: 11 August 1834 in
Sangamon Co., IL d: 23 January 1892 in Diamond, Newton Co., MO
.. *2nd Wife of Moses Carver:
...... +Elizabeth Ellis Love m: 29 January 1897 in Newton Co.,
MO
.. 3 Mary Carver b: 1814 in Switzerland Co., IN
...... +Samuel McDaniel b: 1803 in VA m: 16 January 1834 in
Springfield, Sangamon Co., IL
2 John George Carver b: 19 January 1765 in Northampton Co., PA
d: 12 July 1835 in Stokes Co., NC
.... +Christina b: 1764 d: 22 June 1832 in Stokes Co., NC
.. 3 Elizabeth Carver b: Bet. 1784 - 1790 in NC
.. 3 Mary (Polly) Carver b: Bet. 1784 - 1790 in NC
.. 3 Carver b: Bet. 1784 - 1790 in NC d: Bet. 1800 - 1810
.. 3 Benjamin Carver b: 06 October 1790 in Stokes Co., NC
d: 28 March 1810 in Stokes Co., NC
.. 3 Anna Margaretha Carver b: 01 June 1792 in NC d: 11
October 1863 in NC
.. 3 Agnes Carver b: 14 June 1799 in NC d: 02 February 1869
in NC
.. 3 George Carver b: 1801 in NC
.. 3 Christina Carver b: Bet. 1804 - 1810 in NC
.. 3 Joseph Carver b: 15 October 1805 in NC d: 28 January
1843 in NC
2 John Carver b: 13 January 1768 in Northampton Co., PA d:
Bef. 1783
2 Mary Magdalena Carver b: 20 May 1770 in Northampton Co., PA
d: 03 October 1846 in Stokes Co., NC
.... +(Huths) Jacob Jr. Hoots b: 1766 m: 11 January 1791 in
Surry Co., NC d: 1796 in Surry Co., NC
.. 3 David Hoots b: 09 December 1791 in Surry Co., NC d: 16
August 1856 in Coles Co., IL
.. 3 Jacob Hoots b: 13 May 1793 in Surry Co., NC d: 20
August 1842 in Coles Co., IL
2 John Michael Carver b: 17 August 1775 in Surry Co., NC
d: 10 August 1799 in Stokes Co., NC
.... +Elizabeth Fidler m: 14 December 1798