The second very articulate controversy of Joseph Carter of 1751.
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:23:25 -0600 Margaret <mgb(a)zianet.com> writes:
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Steve................I am quite aware of the controversy of the two
Josephs. First, let me tell you that Elby Bowman sat in my
grandparent's
home to discuss with them his ideas. They had researched the Carters
for
many years, as well as having a professional researcher also involved
in
the research. Bowman's whole interest was to try to prove linkage
with the
Chastain family. When he was here, in this very home I now live in,
my
grandparents tried to warn him to "tread" lightly because he had too
many
"suppositions" and not enough primary sources. I never met Mr. Bowman
personally, but I know my grandparents were very disappointed in the
fact
he was going to try to publish information that he really had no proof
of. He took some proofs and just tried to make them "fit" the mold he
wanted them to fit.
I also have to tell you that, not only am I a descendent of William &
Mary
Goodloe Carter ( my mother's side), I'm also a descendent of Thomas
Carter
& Catherine Dale on my father's side. So I have researched both lines
of
Carters, as well as the Goodloe line because I am a descendent of
Henry
Goodloe through a son. This does not make me an expert on any of the
lines, just a little knowledgable.
Wm. Carter did have a son Joseph that md. Catherine Ammon. Thomas &
Arabella Williamson Carter did have a son that md. Catherine Stevens.
You are correct when you say that the controversy has never been
settled,
but I can guarantee you that Elby Bowman and Dr. Miller didn't prove
anything either. Neither man was able to give absolute proof as to
whom
the 1751 will belonged to. I have, just as much as other Carter
descendents, worked on these two lines trying to work out the
difference
and because of missing recds am also left in limbo. I can truly
dispute a
great deal of Bowman's trieste, but I tend to agree with him that
the Joseph Carter (md. Catherine Ammon) was the Joseph d. 1751
basically
because of the individuals that are involved with this Joseph are the
very
ones that were involved with him in Middlesex Co., VA. Please
remember...........I am a descendent on both sides so I hold no
"passion"
to either side.
I haven't worked on either of my Carter lines for a few years and one
of
the reasons is the very controversy you talk about. I came across
people
who only want answers and believe that if it is in writing it has to
be
correct. Bowman has some really bad suppositions and I can not
believe
that some people actually give him any credence for his many many
"guesses". As I said, he did get some things right, but his whole
purpose
was to try to connect to the Chastain family.
At 08:07 PM 7/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
>The below information is possibly seriously flawed. First, the
Joseph
>Carter who died in Spotsylvania in 1751 (I put three * beside him),
WAS
>NOT NECESSARILY the son of William Carter of Middlesex. Many believe
(in
>fact the mainstream) he was the son of CPT Thomas Carter Jr. Next,
>there is a great controversy as to if this Joseph Carter married
>Catherine AMMONS or Catherine STEVENS (as Dr. Miller said).
>
>It is possible William of Middlesex had a Joseph who married a
Catherine
>Ammons, but it wouldn't have been this Joseph..
>
>This great controversy over the Josephs has never been settled by
Carter
>scholars and definitely could cause descendants of Joseph Carter of
>Spotsylvania confusion.
>
>Elby Bowman in 1978 argued the Joseph of SPotsylvania who died in
1751
>married Catherine Ammons and was the son of William. Paul Carter, in
a
>book on his site on the subject, seems to support Dr. Millers claim
that
>Joseph was the son of CPT Thomas Carter Jr.
>
>There was a Joseph Carter who married a Catherine Ammons - but
scholars
>just aren't sure if this Joseph became the Joseph who died in
>SPotsylvania in 1751.
>
>There is more on this argument in a book by Elby Bowman - some of the
>narrative is at Paul Carter's site
http://members.aol.com/rarebk
>
>Steve.
>
>
>On Sun, 09 Jul 2000 18:49:39 -0600 Margaret <mgb(a)zianet.com> writes:
> >After reviewing the archives, I see that there is some confusion
about
> >the
> >two Ammon Carters. This might help:
> >
> > From The New Handbook of Texas
> >
> > CARTER, AMON G., SR.
> > born Giles Amon Carter on December 11, 1879,
in
> >
> >Crafton, Texas,
> > the son of William Henry and Josephine
(Ream)
> >Carter. He changed
> > his name as an adult; he named his son Amon
> >Gary
> >Carter, Jr., qv
> > and was widely known as Amon Carter, Sr.
> >
> >
> >
> >Ammon Carter of VA was b. 1765 d. bef. Oct. 1851 Lawrence Co., AL.
He
> >md.
> >Mary "Polly" Burnett.........they had 7 children.
> >
> >Ammon was the son of Joseph Carter b. abt. 1739 prob. Middlesex
Co.,
> >VA d.
> >bef. 1814 in Bedford Co., VA md. ?.........he had 8 children:
Joseph,
> >Jr.,
> >Ammon, Priscilla, Polly, Phebe, Nancy, John & Elizabeth.
> >
>***Joseph was the son of Joseph Carter b. 30 Apr. 1704 Middlesex
Co., VA
>
>***d.
>***poss. 7 May 1751
>***Spotsylvania Co., VA md. Catherine Ammon 1 Dec. 1731 Middlesex
>***Co......he
>***had John, Joseph, George, Robert, Catherine, Mary & Elizabeth.
> >
> >Joseph Carter Sr. was the son of William Carter b. abt. 1660 poss.
> >Middlesex Co., VA d. 17 Dec. 1711 Middlesex Co.....md. Mary Goodloe
2
> >July
> >1691 Middlesex Co., VA......he was md. twice. His children were:
> >Mary,
> >Thomas, Elizabeth, William, Jr., George, Penelope, Phillip, Ann,
> >Joseph,
> >Sr., Robert & Mary.
> >
> >Hope this helps some and I will be glad to share what info I have.
> >
> >Margaret
> >
> >
>
>________________________________________________________________
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Steve................I am quite aware of the controversy of the two
Josephs. First, let me tell you that Elby Bowman sat in my
grandparent's home to discuss with them his ideas. They had
researched the Carters for many years, as well as having a
professional
researcher also involved in the research. Bowman's whole
interest
was to try to prove linkage with the Chastain family. When he
was
here, in this very home I now live in, my grandparents tried to warn
him
to "tread" lightly because he had too many
"suppositions" and not enough primary sources. I never
met Mr. Bowman personally, but I know my grandparents were very
disappointed in the fact he was going to try to publish information
that
he really had no proof of. He took some proofs and just tried to
make them "fit" the mold he wanted them to fit.<br>
<br>
I also have to tell you that, not only am I a descendent of William
&
Mary Goodloe Carter ( my mother's side), I'm also a descendent of
Thomas
Carter & Catherine Dale on my father's side. So I have
researched both lines of Carters, as well as the Goodloe line because
I
am a descendent of Henry Goodloe through a son. This <u>does not
</u> make me an expert on any of the lines, just a <u>little</u>
knowledgable. <br>
<br>
Wm. Carter did have a son Joseph that md. Catherine Ammon.
Thomas
& Arabella Williamson Carter did have a son that md. Catherine
Stevens.<br>
<br>
You are correct when you say that the controversy has never been
settled,
but I can guarantee you that Elby Bowman and Dr. Miller didn't prove
anything either. Neither man was able to give absolute proof as
to
whom the 1751 will belonged to. I have, just as much as other
Carter descendents, worked on these two lines trying to work out the
difference and because of missing recds am also left in
limbo. I can truly dispute a great deal of Bowman's
trieste,
but I tend to agree with him that <br>
the Joseph Carter (md. Catherine Ammon) was the Joseph d. 1751
basically
because of the individuals that are involved with this Joseph are the
very ones that were involved with him in Middlesex Co., VA.
Please
remember...........I am a descendent on both sides so I hold no
"passion" to either side.<br>
<br>
I haven't worked on either of my Carter lines for a few years and one
of
the reasons is the very controversy you talk about. I came
across
people who only want answers and believe that if it is in writing it
has
to be correct. Bowman has some really bad suppositions and I can
not believe that some people actually give him any credence for his
many
many "guesses". As I said, he did get some things
right,
but his whole purpose was to try to connect to the Chastain family.
<br>
<br>
At 08:07 PM 7/21/00 -0400, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>The below information is possibly seriously
flawed. First, the Joseph<br>
Carter who died in Spotsylvania in 1751 (I put three * beside him),
WAS<br>
NOT NECESSARILY the son of William Carter of Middlesex. Many
believe (in<br>
fact the mainstream) he was the son of CPT Thomas Carter
Jr.
Next,<br>
there is a great controversy as to if this Joseph Carter married<br>
Catherine AMMONS or Catherine STEVENS (as Dr. Miller said).<br>
<br>
It is possible William of Middlesex had a Joseph who married a
Catherine<br>
Ammons, but it wouldn't have been this Joseph..<br>
<br>
This great controversy over the Josephs has never been settled by
Carter<br>
scholars and definitely could cause descendants of Joseph Carter
of<br>
Spotsylvania confusion.<br>
<br>
Elby Bowman in 1978 argued the Joseph of SPotsylvania who died in
1751<br>
married Catherine Ammons and was the son of William. Paul
Carter,
in a<br>
book on his site on the subject, seems to support Dr. Millers claim
that<br>
Joseph was the son of CPT Thomas Carter Jr.<br>
<br>
There was a Joseph Carter who married a Catherine Ammons - but
scholars<br>
just aren't sure if this Joseph became the Joseph who died in<br>
SPotsylvania in 1751.<br>
<br>
There is more on this argument in a book by Elby Bowman - some of
the<br>
narrative is at Paul Carter's site
<a
href="http://members.aol.com/rarebk"
eudora="autourl">http://members.aol.com/rarebk</a><...
<br>
Steve.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, 09 Jul 2000 18:49:39 -0600 Margaret &lt;mgb(a)zianet.com&gt;
writes:<br>
>After reviewing the archives, I see that there is some confusion
about <br>
>the <br>
>two Ammon Carters. This might help:<br>
><br>
> From The New Handbook of Texas<br>
><br>
>
CARTER, AMON G., SR.<br>
>
born Giles Amon Carter on December 11, 1879, in <br>
><br>
>Crafton, Texas,<br>
>
the son of William Henry and Josephine (Ream) <br>
>Carter. He changed<br>
>
his name as an adult; he named his son Amon <br>
>Gary <br>
>Carter, Jr., qv<br>
>
and was widely known as Amon Carter, Sr.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>Ammon Carter of VA was b. 1765 d. bef. Oct. 1851 Lawrence Co.,
AL. He <br>
>md. <br>
>Mary "Polly" Burnett.........they had 7 children.<br>
><br>
>Ammon was the son of Joseph Carter b. abt. 1739 prob. Middlesex
Co.,
<br>
>VA d. <br>
>bef. 1814 in Bedford Co., VA md. ?.........he had 8
children:
Joseph, <br>
>Jr., <br>
>Ammon, Priscilla, Polly, Phebe, Nancy, John & Elizabeth.<br>
><br>
***Joseph was the son of Joseph Carter b. 30 Apr. 1704 Middlesex
Co., VA<br>
<br>
***d. <br>
***poss. 7 May 1751<br>
***Spotsylvania Co., VA md. Catherine Ammon 1 Dec. 1731 Middlesex <br>
***Co......he <br>
***had John, Joseph, George, Robert, Catherine, Mary &
Elizabeth.<br>
><br>
>Joseph Carter Sr. was the son of William Carter b. abt. 1660 poss.
<br>
>Middlesex Co., VA d. 17 Dec. 1711 Middlesex Co.....md. Mary
Goodloe 2
<br>
>July <br>
>1691 Middlesex Co., VA......he was md. twice. His children
were: <br>
>Mary, <br>
>Thomas, Elizabeth, William, Jr., George, Penelope, Phillip, Ann,
<br>
>Joseph, <br>
>Sr., Robert & Mary.<br>
><br>
>Hope this helps some and I will be glad to share what info I
have.<br>
><br>
>Margaret<br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
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