Thanks James,
Sounds good - I'm IN!!! Perhaps I missed it but are the results 'ours'?
Ie, can I use it for other such List activities? For ex, if I don't match up
w/the Reivers W'tons, can I use it, for example, for the 'Loyalists?'
W'ton
matching, or other such? etc (ie I might suspected I was adopted, or just
donated by the milkman, etc???)' ie, do I 'own' my results? We won't
keep
getting hit for more money (other than converting fron 12 to 25 markers) for
any other dna test results you or we may wish to use? The results are
confidential between the donor & the tester, unless revealed by the donor,
correct? To anticipate, are there dna determinations that would require the
testers to report it to any authorities? . . . ie carrier of this or
infected w/that???
I presume that females that md into the W'tons or associated Surnames
can try to get their father, or his brother, uncle or father to co-operate,
or have I missed something here? The websites to which you refer are those
listed below, correct? I'll read the material to which you have directed
me, and if it's clear there, no need for you to answer.
Assuming yes, I'm in for dna testing of myself (I'll probably be in under
any circumstances) to determine what can be determined by a dna test, AND am
recommending it for the other male W'tons (& male Carruthers & related
surnames) that are interested in such a determination. Do you who have
matched up discuss it amongst each other?
Barry
To Barry & all Wetheringtons and Carruthers (& 'our' other 'related
Surnames within e-mailing distance?,
We would warmly welcome your number into our midst. We have a Witherington
DNA profile in our database that we have rustled from elsewhere, and are
seeking more. We are well aware that the Carruthers clan were Border
Reivers, too - indeed, we have recruited three in the past month. One of
those gentlemen is a resident of Cumbria, as a matter of fact - a veritable
Debateable-Landsman!
Within the last three months, we have been able to recruit nearly thirty
official participants and many additional contributors - including members
of the Elliott, Armstrong, Dixon, Irving, Hall, Davison, Ogle, Taylor,
Hunter, Little, Kerr, Carruthers, Graham, Johnstone and other families. We
have already assembled a database of more than 350 suspected "Border Reiver"
DNA profiles that we have gathered from various public databases, as well as
from our participants and contributors.
To participate in the Border Reiver DNA Project, you must purchase a
Ychromosome test kit from Family Tree DNA. We suggest the 12 marker Y
chromosome test, or the 25 marker Y chromosome test. Either test makes you
eligible to join. We use Y chromosome DNA markers because these are passed
from father to son across many generations with very few changes, and are
therefore an ideal method for tracing paternal ancestry. The more time has
passed since two men shared the same paternal ancestor, the more differences
may arise between their respective DNA markers - and those differences are
what we use to determine the level of genetic closeness.
If you score a 12 marker match with someone else, that means there is at
least a 50% chance that you and your match shared the same paternal ancestor
sometime in the last 350 years. The 12 marker test will also be more than
adequate to provide info about your "deep ancestry" - among the Celts,
Angles, Vikings, Romans, etc The group rate for this test is 99 USD, which
is nearly 40% less than what I paid for the same test when I ordered it on
my own last year.
If you score a match with the 25 marker test, that means there is at least
a 50% chance that you and your match shared the same paternal ancestor
within the last 7 generations - or within the last 175 years. The group
rate for that test is 169 USD. This also represents a considerable
bargain.
If you score an exact, or even a close, match with another participant in
our project, you will be provided with the other participant's name and
e-mail address.
Which test you choose to take is totally up to you. Experienced DNA
genealogists recommend the 25 marker test. But you may take the 12 marker
test now, and upgrade to 25 markers later, depending on your level of
interest - and if you score an exact match with another participant.
Here is the link you will need to order your test and enroll in the Elliott
(And Border Reivers) DNA Project.
http://www.familytreedna.com/surname_join.asp?code=K58255
Do not hesitate to contact me if you have any more questions or concerns.
(Please also visit the web pages whose URLs I included in my posting - if
you have not done so already. These will give you a sense of the depth and
breadth of our project.)
Sincerely,
James V. Elliott
Group Administrator
Elliott (And Border Reivers) DNA Project
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Wetherington" <cbarrfly(a)comcast.net>
To: "Weth-L" <wetherington-L(a)rootsweb.com>; "Wetherton-L"
<WETHERTON-L(a)rootsweb.com>; "WEDDINGTON-L"
<WEDDINGTON-L(a)RootsWeb.com>;
"Weatherton-L" <weatherington-L(a)rootsweb.com>; "Widd-L"
<widdrington-L(a)rootsweb.com>; <WITHERINGTON-L(a)rootsweb.com>;
<Wethington-L(a)rootsweb.com>; <Withington-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Cc: "BarryCast" <cbarrfly(a)comcast.net>; "Carruthers-L"
<carruthers-L(a)rootsweb.com>; <jvance(a)tiac.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 3:27 PM
Subject: Border Reiver DNA Project Seeking W'ton Participants
Hi James V Elliott, Group Administrator, Elliott (And Border Reivers) DNA
Project
GREAT IDEA!:
"DNA Project Seeking Witherington Participants," see excerpt below, & I
will post & endorse it to mine & other various W'ton-L Lists.
( I also host the Carruthers-L List, and ask if they should also be
considered, even though it was not listed on your website. By copy of this
msg, I ask our very knowledgeable Carruthers members if they feel support
would be appropriate. I thought the Carruthers WERE quite active 'Reivers.')
I did go to your website:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/%7egallgaedhil/dna_by_surname.htm
but while Witherington WAS listed, Carruthers was not.
Also, following the discussion outline on your site, specifically the
name & US migration pattern variations, the Witheringtons that migrated
towards the states you listed, are likely now carrying surname variations of
Withington & Wethington and more than 40 other W'ton variations we all have
been subjected to (mine is Wetherington):
"3) If the ancestor lived in a state whose earliest settlers from Great
Britain with "Border" names came largely from Ulster (e.g., North Carolina,
Tennessee, Kentucky), "Scotch-Irish-USA" was assigned as "Place of
Origin"."
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/%7egallgaedhil/dna_by_surname.htm
More to come later, but want to get this off ASAP.
Barry Wetherington
PS: Of course, The Witherington Derwentwaters poem (continued to fight on
his leg stumps) is quite well known.
----- Original Message -----
From: <jvance(a)tiac.net>
To: <WITHERINGTON-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 2:00 PM
Subject: [Witherington] Border Reiver DNA Project Is Seeking Witherington
Participants
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Surnames: WITHERINGTON
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/GFXBAIB/53
Message Board Post:
Hello,
If you are an adult male paternally descended from the Anglo-Scottish
Border family Witherington, and have ever considered getting your Y
chromosome tested, you may do so at a substantial discount by joining the
Border Reiver DNA Project at Family Tree DNA.
The Border Reiver DNA Project is a serious genetic and genealogical study
started this March by two customers of Family Tree DNA, James V. Elliott and
David B. Strong. Although it began as a study of the Elliott Border Reiver
family, it has since expanded to include members of other Border Reiver
families, including a direct descendant of the legendary Border Reiver,
Johnnie Armstrong, a senior officer of the Clan Hall Society, Dixons,
Irvings, Kerrs, Littles, Taylors, Carruthers, Davisons, Ogles, Hunters and
others. Members of all Border Reiver families are welcome now, and we
emphatically encourage your participation.
The home page for our study, which includes many links to other web pages
about the Scots, the Britons, the Border Reivers and their ancestors, may be
accessed at the URL below:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gallgaedhil/elliott_border_reive...
We are conducting our study of the Border Reiver families using Y
chromosome DNA markers, because the Y chromosome is passed, just like a
surname, from father to son with very few changes over many generations.
That makes these DNA markers an ideal tool for tracing paternal descent and,
by extension, the history of families.
The goals of the Border Reiver DNA Project are as follows:
1) James Leyburn, in his excellent book "The Scotch-Irish: A Social
History", characterized the ancestry of the Anglo-Scottish Border people as
a diverse mixture of Picts, Brythonic Celts, Scotti, Irish Gaels, both
Danish and Norwegian Vikings, Angles and Saxons, troops and settlers from
all over the Roman Empire - as well as Normans, Flemish and many others. We
intend to use Y chromosome analysis to explore the ancestral origin of
Border Reiver descendants, both individually (if we can) and as a group. We
have already done substantial reading about both the history of Europe and
the latest developments in population genetics, and have compiled a database
of more than 350 likely Border Reiver descendants obtained from public
databases at Family Tree DNA and elsewhere.
The URL below will give you some idea of the extent of our ongoing study:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gallgaedhil/dna_by_haplogroup.htm
2) The Border Reivers rode during a period of extreme chaos in the history
of the Anglo-Scottish Border. any young mothers were widowed, and many
children were orphaned. The social customs of the Reivers, affected by a
need for self-reliance and the shifting circumstances of the era, favored
trial marriages, and allowed even married women to keep their surnames. The
larger Border Reiver clans themselves were like tribes or military units as
much as families, and many born with different surnames joined these clans
for protection, eventually assuming the clan surname as their own. As a
consequence of all these factors, Border Reiver descendants are to this day
closely interrelated. Many with different surnames share the same ancestors,
and many with the same surname are descended from genetically distinct
paternal lines. Our DNA Project seeks to determine the relationships among
these descendants, both on an individual and a family level.
The URL below will give you some idea of the families already included in
our study:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gallgaedhil/dna_by_surname.htm
The group rate for joining the Border Reiver DNA Project is 99 USD for a 12
marker Y chromosome test, or 169 USD for a 25 marker test. The 12 marker
test easily suffices to determine your "deep ancestry", and can provide
enough data to suggest a shared paternal ancestry within the last 14 or 15
generations. The 25 marker test, more favored by DNA genealogists, can
identify a shared paternal ancestry within the last 7 generations.
These group rates represent a substantial savings over the cost of joining
Family Tree alone. For instance, the cost of getting the 12 marker test is
nearly 40 percent less than what I paid for the same test last summer. Once
you join our group, you will have full privileges as a Family Tree DNA
customer. Family Tree DNA will store your genetic material with absolute
privacy and security for twenty years, and will publish information about
your Y chromosome markers, their likely ethnic origin, and the e-mail
addresses of exact matches, on your own personal, password-protected web
page. In addition, all other DNA tests you wish to order will be available
to you at a considerable discount.
Despite the foregoing discussion of cost, this is a serious study, not a
commercial venture. If you are interested in joining us, or would simply
like more info, please contact James V. Elliott at jvance(a)tiac.net.
Sincerely,
James V. Elliott
Group Administrator
Elliott (And Border Reivers) DNA Project
==== WITHERINGTON Mailing List ====
> Research our extensive Archives - doubleclick this Link NOW:
>
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/w/witherington.html
> then search the extensive Archives or Browse recent msgs
> ==============================
----- Original Message -----
From: "James V. Elliott" <jvance(a)tiac.net>
To: "Barry Wetherington" <cbarrfly(a)comcast.net>; "Weth-L"
<wetherington-L(a)rootsweb.com>; "Wetherton-L"
<WETHERTON-L(a)rootsweb.com>;
"WEDDINGTON-L" <WEDDINGTON-L(a)rootsweb.com>; "Weatherton-L"
<weatherington-L(a)rootsweb.com>; "Widd-L"
<widdrington-L(a)rootsweb.com>;
<WITHERINGTON-L(a)rootsweb.com>; <Wethington-L(a)rootsweb.com>;
<Withington-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Cc: "BarryCast" <cbarrfly(a)comcast.net>; "Carruthers-L"
<carruthers-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:43 PM
Subject: {not a subscriber} Re: Border Reiver DNA Project Seeking W'ton
Participants