Lura,
Don't say that to Kevin. He will not hear of it. "All Carrolls are Irish.
Charles Carroll of Carrollton did not own slaves. There are no African
Americans who got their Carroll surname from their former owners, etc.,
etc. yada, yada, yada..." Where is he by the way? There have been new
Carroll Y-DNA results posted at FTDNA for some time, but not yet
transcribed to his Carroll Surname Y-DNA Project website...
I contacted the Spanish Carral (7QPK3) and he is now going for a full Deep
SNP test at FTDNA. That will simply confirm his Haplogroup R1a status and
put him in a sub-clade of R1a. I wish he would go for more STR markers,
which are more useful for genealogy. Gary Felix who administers the Mexico
Genealogy Project has contacted me with a possible answer as to how any R1a
got into Spain at all. It is found there at about 2%, compared to Ireland
with only 1%. His explanation is quite sensible and based upon history,
and is even slightly romantic.
It seems that Spain controlled the low countries of the Netherlands,
Flanders (Flemish) and Belgium during the 1500s. These countries have
quite a bit of Haplogroup R1a. They were part of the Spanish Empire then
and were known as the Spanish Netherlands. In 1588 the Spanish King Philip
II, a good Catholic, decided to invade England and bring that country back
into his Church. He assembled the Spanish Armada, a huge fleet of ships,
for that purpose. While rendezvousing just off the coast north of
Corunna, Spain a series of storms scattered the fleet. Perhaps some were
shipwreaked on the coast? At any rate the fleet reassembled and sailed for
England, but were defeated.
The interesting thing is that Philip II formed the Armada in the Spanish
Netherlands, and the ships departed from Flanders, manned by Flemish
sailors, who spoke both Dutch and French, and many of them no doubt R1a..
That is the connection between the low countries and Spain. It took me
only a minute on Google to find several instances of Flemish sea captains
marrying Spanish women and remaining in Spain in those times.
I have been in contact with K3P89 and YPVQM, both of who are 12/12 matches.
Both however extended to 37 markers and the apparent relationships fell
away. They haven't posted their new markers to ySearch yet..
For Carroll pronunciation you can always use the Soundex system. Carroll
is pronunciation C640.
That teacher should be fired!
Regards
Eric Olson
[Original Message]
From: Lura <luraj(a)triad.rr.com>
To: <CARROLL-DNA-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Date: 2/21/2006 10:49:01 AM
Subject: Re: [CARROLL-DNA] FW: Spanish (Basque?) R1a Oddity
Eric,
As you know, it is very difficult to assume very much on comparing just
12 alleles.
About all that can be found there is the very
ancient past. However, in this game I say go for any and all leads.
I
think many Carrolls will be surprised to learn that all do
NOT come from Ireland and even fewer are 'cousins' of CC of
Carrollton...
as the family legends have been told.
What about K3P89? Have you corresponded with that person? It seems you
have a
perfect match on the first twelve markers with him.
Also, I pay no attention the spelling of names. I don't know how
what I
pronounce as "Carol" is going to be spelled in another
language. How in the world did "Cearbhaill" get translated
from Ireland
as Carroll??
I think we will learn that many Carl, Karl, Karol, etc. surnames have
become
Carroll, just as have many Carrells. In my family a
school teacher "corrected" the spelling used by the Carrell
children
until they finally wrote "Carroll" on their papers.
Still looking and learning,
Lura
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Olson" <ericbear01(a)earthlink.net>
To: <CARROLL-DNA-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:10 AM
Subject: [CARROLL-DNA] FW: Spanish (Basque?) R1a Oddity
: Leaving no stone unturned.........
:
: Eric Olson
: ericbear01(a)earthlink.net
:
:
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: Eric Olson
: To: GENEALOGY-DNA-L
: Sent: 2/20/2006 9:00:21 PM
: Subject: Spanish (Basque?) R1a Oddity
:
:
: I know Y-DNA Haplogroup R1a is found throughout Europe, in a decreasing
cline
east to west, but its presence in Spain must be
nearly as low as in Ireland. I am therefore surprised to find in
ySearch 7QPK3, an R1a from Burgos, northern Spain - almost in
Basque country - in 1780. I am further struck by the surname Carral
y
Zarauz, listed with variant spellings Carroll and Carrel.
My Carroll family spelled their name Carrel until about 1850, and
were in
Pennsylvania before 1800, and said to be Pennsylvania
"Dutch". We have only a 10/12 match with this Spanish
Y-DNA sample,
differing at DYS #385a,b, which are volatile. That is, 11,15
for the Pennsylvania Carrel vs. 12,14 for the Spainard.
:
: Could I be looking at Spanish or Basque heritage? The 7QPK3 sample
came from the
Genographic Project. I welcome any comments
before I consider contacting the donor.
:
: Eric Olson
: ericbear01(a)earthlink.net
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