Lura and List,
You can confirm your red FTDNA R1b with Whit Athey's Haplogroup Predictor.
https://home.comcast.net/~whitathey/predictorinstr.htm
I don't think it has ever been wrong.
Presently Haplogroup R1b is being further sub-divided into multiple
sub-clades by all these new SNP tests at FTDNA and elsewhere. These Deep
Clade SNP tests are not to help establish your R1b1, but go well beyond
that to sub-sub clades such as R1b1c7, etc. It is thought or hoped these
might be related to specific geographical areas, such as an Irish County.
It will not help you with your genealogies however... Neither will buying
additional markers. Your basic 37 marker set of allele values should be
sufficient for genealogy, except in the most extreme cases where you have
too many matches.
Participating in Deep Clade Testing, AND POSTING RESULTS AT YSEARCH or
elsewhere, will help science with ancient population migrations studies,
and is therefore important. Not to shout, but I still see that only 10 of
the 30 Y-DNA Carroll Surname Project participants have even bothered to
make their basic Carroll lineages known in the appropriate place,
maintained by Kevin Carroll at
http://www.childtalk.com/History/carrollfamilydna.html. 20 only will say
"private". This behavior only defeats the purpose of the project. ALL
Y-DNA test results, even if only for 12 markers, should be posted at
YSearch as a minimum. YSearch is a public database maintained by FTDNA for
just this purpose. That purpose is connecting.
The privacy of living individuals must be protected of course, and no
matter what lineage you submit to YSearch, any personal information on
people born after1900 will be automaticly excluded and labeled "private".
It is the ancestors who are important. You can upload your Carroll
lineages to YSearch with the push of a button from your member's page at
FTDNA.
.
Eric Olson
[Original Message]
From: Lura <luraj(a)triad.rr.com
To:
<CARROLL-DNA-L(a)rootsweb.com
Date: 5/11/2006 9:28:04 PM
Subject: Re: [CARROLL-DNA] RE: Fw: New Deep SNP Results are back.
Now let me see if I can explain the confusing stuff you got yesterday
from me
because I hit SEND before I had finished making notes
into a letter.
Eric asked if anyone else had done the deep clade test by FTDNA.
I have not sent kit # 32061 for a SNP test, partly because FTDNA wrote:
"Haplogroups in green have been confirmed by SNP testing.
Haplogroups in
red have been predicted by Family Tree DNA based on
unambiguous results in the individual's personal page. ***Please
note
that for any predicted results we see no reason for ordering
a SNP test to confirm the Haplogroup.***"
However, I have done two things with the results of the haplotype that I
think
helps verify FTDNA's assignment of R1b1.
First - I paid the $15 to have the results sent to National Geographic to
become
part of the worldwide Genographic Project. Their
reply information assigned my cousin to R1b. However, it is quite
probable they did that based on the information from FTDNA rather
any evaluation of their own.
Second - At FTDNA each person can be a part of two groups, so I chose to
enter the
"R1b" group as well as the "Carroll" group.
There are now over 300 men in that group. Since it is difficult to
see
that many haplotypes by scrolling the tiny window at FTDNA,
it is easier to view those results at
http://www.dnautils.org/ftdna/results.aspx?kits=D6353&sort=markers
Use FIND to locate the only "Carroll" in the chart. As you know the
markers are displayed in numerical order of the first column,
then the second column, etc. In this chart the person who is creating
the
chart is using color (see code at bottom) to indicate the
differences. There is no one in the chart exactly like my cousin,
but
the haplotype just above his has the same values on the first
12 markers. That person has had the SNP test (green) and is listed as
R1b1. I don't know if it is the deep clade test or the
previous one.
I think the deep clade test would be more valuable for someone for whom
FTDNA was
unable to assign the Haplogroup from markers 1-12.
Lura
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Olson" <ericbear01(a)earthlink.net
To:
<CARROLL-DNA-L(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 12:16
PM
Subject: [CARROLL-DNA] FW: RE: Fw: New Deep SNP Results are back.
: Did anyone else on the list do the new deep clade test with FTDNA? Was
it
helpful with your genealogies?
:
: I will pull all the Carrolls I find on these old (1780s) Pennsylvania
excise tax
lists and post them here soon. See bottom line..
:
: Cheers
:
: Eric Olson
: ericbear01(a)earthlink.net
:
:
:
: Subject: RE: Fw: New DeepSNP Results are back.
:
:
: Dear Cousin Bill Carroll, et al...
:
: Your new test results confirm the Carroll Y-DNA Haplogroup is indeed
Haplogroup
R1a, with all that implies. We were hoping for a
little more definition, such as R1a1a or R1a1b with the new test, but
that has not occured. Therefore the geographical origin of
our Carroll Y-DNA has not been narrowed down as hoped. Bummer...
:
: All these + or - results are for certain mutations, sequentially
accumulated over
thousands of years, and would be diagnostic of
geography if they were present, but the - 's indicate they are
not
present except for the first few. The mystery of the origin of
the Carroll Y-DNA deepens.....
:
: The tests for certain crucial mutations, in particular M 17, apparently
failed to
give a result. These may be re-run sometime
soon according to your letter from FTDNA. Most of the folks who
requested the Deep Clade SNP test have received similar letters
from FTDNA. Apparently the testing lab has failed to deliver all
they
promised ...
:
: (The link to) Tanmoy's genealogy pages
http://members.tripod.com/~tanmoy/geneology.html are the best analysis of
R1a I have yet
seen. In Europe, Haplogroups I and R1b predominate, and R1a runs a
distant third. Most of the real work being done by the
scientists so far are in analysis of those first two. R1a waits
impatiently in the wings.
:
: The Carroll surname Y-DNA project at FTDNA currently has test results
from 30
Carroll men.
http://www.familytreedna.com/(toyazi45prppfl453dy2lb55)/public/carroll/index
.aspx?fixed_columns=on They are mostly Haplogroup R1b,
and Irish. Our Carroll R1a is the only R1a in the project, and
therefore
unique. (And probably not Irish). It is Eastern
European, or Viking, or Central Asian, or possibly Asian Indian.
:
: Sooo ... our best bet to resolve this puzzle remains with waiting for a
Carroll /
Carrel gent in Europe to Y-DNA test and post his
results to the public database at
YSearch.com, etc. If his Y-DNA
matches
yours, then we will have found a European, or Asian,
cousin with all that implies. I monitor the public databases
weekly.
:
: More traditionally, I have just received 99 pages in PDF of excise tax
records
from Pennsylvania for six counties of interest,
from the late 1700s. It will take me a while to search them all for
Carroll. So far I found a John Correll, of Lancaster County,
paying excise tax on 100 gallons of rum in 1774.
:
: Cheers,
: Eric
:
:
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: Bill Carroll
: To: Eric Olson
: Sent: 5/8/2006 5:11:54 PM
: Subject: Fw: New DeepSNP Results are back.
:
:
: Eric,
:
: Some results are posted. I have no idea what it means though. Do you?
:
: Regards,
: Bill
: ----- Original Message -----
: From: info(a)familytreedna.com
: To: bcarroll222(a)comcast.net
: Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 6:07 PM
: Subject: New DeepSNP Results are back.
:
:
: Your SNP DEEP Haplogroup test results are now available for you to see
on
: the Haplogroup tab of your personal page. We have listed all tests
that
: we have tested you for where a positive (+) or negative (-) result was
: obtained, so expect to see several + and - signs after the name of the
SNP
: that you were tested for.
:
: In some cases you may see SNPs with different names applying to the same
: haplogroup. This is because these SNPs are considered by the
: anthropological community to be equal in phylogeny.
:
: In cases where you have some results but one or more SNPs are NOT
listed,
: you were tested for them but because that particular SNP failed in
the
: testing, it is being rerun. However in all cases you'll see what you
are
: (+) and which SNPs you can rule out (-) at this time.
:
: Remember the Haplogroup classification WILL change as the tree evolves,
: however the test that you are positive for will NOT change. For example
: we recently re-assigned P-25 from R1b to R1b1, as M343 (now R1b) is the
: node of the tree in-between R1 and R1b1. We will update your specific
: Haplogroup definition automatically in the future as the tree evolves
and
: in agreement with scientific papers.
:
: Follow the link below to view your personal page. Your haplogroup
results
: can be found in the Haplogroup and Y-DNA DYS Values sections.
:
:
http://www.familytreedna.com/ftLogin.asp?kit=27123&code=Q3280
:
: Please remember to add (or update) your results at
www.Ysearch.org, the
: FTDNA sponsored public database. Go to the Y-DNA Matches tab and you
will
> : see an explanation and a link for the upload.
> :
> : To view the SNPs that are tested in each Deep Clade test, see this page:
> :
> :
http://www.familytreedna.com/deepclade.html
> :
> : Family Tree DNA
> :
> :
> : ==== CARROLL-DNA Mailing List ====
> :
http://www.childtalk.com/History/carrollfamilydna.html
> :
> : ==============================
> : Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the
> : areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months.
> : Learn more:
http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx
> :
> ==== CARROLL-DNA Mailing List ====
>
http://www.childtalk.com/History/carrollfamilydna.html
> ==============================
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