Mike,
I expect you are correct. My father always said we were
"Scotch"-Irish... even while his sister insisted we were related to
Charles Carroll of Carrolton.
My trying to read your greeting at the bottom helps me realize more
and more why so many different spellings of a surname developed when
our ancestors crossed the ocean to the colonies, Australia, or
elsewhere.
Some folks think the Irish immigrants all spoke English like we use
today when they arrived and gave their name to the man registering the
passengers as they got off the sail boat.
Lura
An interesting story is told of how one Chinese gentleman got his
name.
MOISHE PLOTNIK
Walking through San Francisco's Chinatown, a tourist is fascinated
with all the Chinese restaurants, shops, signs and banners. He turns
a corner and sees a building with the sign, "Moishe Plotnik's Chinese
Laundry."
"Moishe Plotnik?" he muses. "How the heck does that fit in here?"
So he walks into the shop and sees an old Chinese gentleman behind the
counter.
The tourist asks, "How did this place get a name like "Moishe
Plotnik's Chinese Laundry?"
The old man answers, "Is name of owner."
The tourist asks, "Well, who and where is the owner?"
"Me, is right here," replies the old man.
"You? How did you ever get a name like Moishe Plotnik?"
"Is simple," says the old man. "Many, many year ago when come to this
country, was stand in line at Documentation Center. Man in front is
Jewish gentleman from Poland.
Lady look at him and say, 'What your name?'
He say, 'Moishe Plotnik.'
Then she look at me and go, 'What your name?'
I say, 'Sem Ting.'"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Carroll" <mike(a)beltlink.com>
To: <carroll-dna(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 10:46 AM
Subject: [CARROLL-DNA] Early Settler Connection to Ireland
Dear Lura:
The North Carolina connections are exciting. Yet, I see a bigger
picture back to the Northeast coast of Ireland, specifically County
Louth-County Down-County Antrim. The early settlers of America
(1600's
thru 1700's) came from those Counties. Many of the surnames, other
than
Carroll, that have been mentioned in this list related to North
Carolina
and Virginia are surnames found in those Irish counties. I suspect in
some cases neighbors from the old country became neighbors in the new.
Regarding septs, the Carrolls of Oriel are rooted in County Louth. I
recently made a list of Carrolls in those Irish counties from the
Eirecom phone book. When I find the time, I plan on writing them to
request their participation in the Carroll Surname Y-DNA project.
Nollaig Shona daoibh go léir agus Athbhliain faoi shéan is faoi mhaise
daoibh, agus go mba seacht fearr sinn go léir ag an am seo ar an
bhliain
seo chugainn!
Merry Christmas to you all and a happy and prosperous New Year to you
all and may we all be seven times better off at this time next year!
Mike Carroll
Santa Monica, CA
carroll-dna-request(a)rootsweb.com wrote:
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Orange and Rockingham Counties, NC (Lura)
2. Re: Orange and Rockingham Counties, NC (Eileen Grady)
3. Re: Orange and Rockingham Counties, NC (Lura)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:22:58 -0500
From: "Lura" <luraj(a)triad.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [CARROLL-DNA] Orange and Rockingham Counties, NC
To: <CARROLL-DNA(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <003901c83da4$6ce7f190$6401a8c0@lura2004>
Hi James,
I thought you had been really quiet lately. Glad you will be able
to
stay home for at least a short while.
I was thinking that the orange stripe through the middle of the
chart
at
http://www.childtalk.com/History/carrollfamilydnavalues.pdf
was looking great as it gets wider and wider, but now that you are
back in action we may be in competition from that pretty Carolina
blue
stripe at the top. That's OK! Every time we identify and plot the
DNA of a CARROLL means we are one step closer to sorting this very
difficult puzzle.
The Sampson County group has not been found by someone of another
surname who matches closely with the Carrolls, and believes they may
have ancestors in common. However, there are several with other
names
who have many alleles in common I want to contact to see if we can
find times when the families lived near each other.
We do have the opposite problem. We have three Carrolls with paper
trails back to Sampson County who definitely do not match with the
others shown in the orange section. The genealogy suggests one of
those should match, but he doesn't so far match anybody anywhere.
Two
others trace lineage to an ancestor who was in a different part of
the
county at a slightly later time, so they may be descended from an
entirely different Carroll family.
Actually I have been pleasantly surprised we have not found more of
these "non-paternal" events so far in the Carroll family. I think
many of the surname projects are finding them, but I guess that
suggests that human nature hasn't changed that much in the last few
hundred years.
Maybe we can't turn our imperfect dirt-farmer ancestors into kings
or
diplomats or great musicians, but we can appreciate them all for the
thing they did extremely well - REAR US.
"If I learn my ancestors were less than perfect, that doesn't change
who they helped me to become. I'm still me!"
Lura
----- Original Message -----
From: <JWC51(a)aol.com>
To: <carroll-dna(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [CARROLL-DNA] Orange and Rockingham Counties, NC
: Hello Lura (and group)! This is James Carroll and I'm still alive
and
: kicking. I have been traveling extensively in the past six months
doing some
: contract work and out of the country twice, etc., so have seen the
DNA group
: e-mails but haven't had a chance to respond until now.
:
: First, let me thank you for agreeing to become coordinator and
commend you
: on the fine job you're doing. I knew you would. We corresponded
early on when
: this group first started since we both have interest in North
Carolina
: Carrolls, and I see you always trying to help people on other
message boards as well
: as this one.
:
: I also want to welcome Peter and others who have joined recently.
For those
: of you who have been in the group for a while know, I have given
testimony in
: the past of how the DNA testing has helped in my pursuit and urged
the
: recruiting of others to participate. I am pasting in an e-mail at
the end of this
: one that I wrote to the group in February, 2006, that detailed
this
for those
: of you who are new to the group.
:
: Before relating what else DNA testing has revealed in our family,
let me
: address this e-mail of 10/19, Lura. I am aware of Stephen and
Clement Carroll
: from Orange County, NC, who settled in McNairy County, TN. They
are
the sons of
: Benjamin Carroll and great grandsons of Stephen Carroll, both who
left wills
: that have survived. I have been unable to make any connection with
my
: Michael, but corresponded a few months ago with a woman who is a
descendant of this
: family and asked her to try to have a male descendant give a DNA
sample. She
: was contacting a cousin about this, but I need to follow up with
her
to see
: what has transpired.
:
: Now, for the update regarding another use of DNA testing. My
fourth
great
: grandfather, Michael Carroll of Orange County, had a son, Moses,
who
migrated
: to Carroll County, Georgia, and two of Moses' sons migrated on to
Arkansas.
: One was my great, great grandfather, who came with his wife. The
other brother
: came with his young son (mother unknown) and eventually married in
Arkansas.
: But there have been persistent rumors that have been posted on
message boards
: by a family with a different surname over the years that my
gggrandfather's
: brother (also named Michael after his grandfather in NC) fathered
a
child
: with a woman that was not his wife and that they are the
descendants of this
: union. Michael's great, great granddaughter challenged them to
produce evidence
: on more than one occasion, but they were unable to do so. In the
meantime, I
: had her submit the DNA of her brother, and he matched me
perfectly
on 37 of
: 37 (see first two kits in the first light blue grouping of five).
She recently
: was able to locate a descendant of the man who was the product of
this
: alleged illicit union, and asked him to submit a DNA sample. His
results are seen
: in the fifth (last) column of our light blue section, and as you
can see, he
: matched us on 35 of 37 markers. Apparently the rumor passed down
through the
: years is true. But we would probably have never known for sure
except for the
: DNA test.
:
: My 2006 post is below. We've come a long way as to number of
participants
: from the first roll call Eric called for three years ago. Let's
keep
going.
: Lura, lead us on.
: James
: Subject: [CARROLL-DNA] RECENT SUCCESSES/ ENCOURAGEMENT TO
RECRUIT
: OTHERS Date: 2/28/2006 1:20:41 PM Central Standard Time From:
_JWC51(a)aol.com_
: (mailto:JWC51@aol.com)
:
: This is James Carroll, Kit # 28645 (first one listed on the
Carroll web
: site). I joined the project early on. We have been able to go
back
no
: further
: than my fourth great-grandfather, Michael Carroll, who lived in
Orange
: County,
: North Carolina, born ca. 1766 (but birthplace and state unknown).
A
distant
: cousin hired a prominent genealogical researcher and publisher
in
North
: Carolina about 15 years ago to do "on-ground" research in North
Carolina,
: who first
: discovered that Michael was the father of my third great
grandfather, Moses
:
: Carroll. But he could establish no definitive blood relationship
with other
: Carrolls in the area with whom Michael was associated.
:
:
: I came on the scene about three years ago, and discovered these
other
: researchers, and have now taken the lead in getting past the
proverbial
: brick wall.
: I made two trips to North Carolina, and last fall spent three
days
in the
: NC
: State Archives. I found documents proving who Michael's wife was
(the widow
: of a Tory who was sentenced to death for treason), along with
many
other
: documents that provided some fascinating information about his
life
and
: death,
: but nothing to definitively identify his parents.
:
: After having no matches with any Carroll DNA participants, last
November I
: received notice of a 12 marker match, and encouraged the family
member of
: the
: participant with whom I corresponded to expand it to at least 25.
We
: subsequently matched on 24 of 25. They had information going
back
to Texas
: in the
: late 1800s. After further research, I was able to work back to a
Hugh
: Carroll,
: who lived in Nashville, TN, who was born in North Carolina in
1819, even
: locating a great granddaughter who confirmed the information. I'm
still
: working
: to go beyond Hugh to see if I can find a link with Michael.
:
: Then in the past couple of weeks, I was notified of a 36 of 37
match (not
: posted yet).This individual is still forwarding me information,
but his
: earliest
: known ancestor is Zedekiah D. Carroll, born in York, SC, in 1802.
A
census
: search indicates his parents were born in Virginia. I have always
suspected
: Michael or his ancestors migrated to NC from VA. So I am just
beginning to
: search for a link here.
:
: I say all of that to say this. I believe that DNA will be the tool
that
: will
: enable me to find the ancestors of Michael Carroll, if they are
to
be found.
: We have exhausted the traditional means. I want to encourage
everyone to
: recruit as many Carrolls as possible to participate in the DNA
project for
: everyone's benefit. I have studied what some other surname
families have
: done
: through DNA, and the results and the connections they have been
able to
: make are
: amazing. But they have numerous participants. I recently
corresponded with a
: Carroll that I discovered on a web site who had submitted a
sample
that was
:
: lost, and upon receiving another kit, lost it during the middle of
a
crisis.
: I
: encouraged them to try again, even offering to help pay for it.
They
have
: requested another kit.
:
: My bottom line - let's actively recruit others to participate.
I've
seen
: how
: fruitful the results have been for others. We can see that too.
If
you're
: still awake after reading my mini-novel, thanks for your time.
: James
:
:
:
:
:
: **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
: (
http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
:
: -------------------------------
: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
CARROLL-DNA-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:53:51 -0500
From: Eileen Grady <eileengr(a)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [CARROLL-DNA] Orange and Rockingham Counties, NC
To: carroll-dna(a)rootsweb.com
Message-ID: <006101c83db1$1efef430$6401a8c0@momscomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi, I am new to your website. I have been researching my genealogy
for the
last 5 years. We have a Carroll connection but not in the US that I
know of
yet. My great grandmother was a Carroll. She had five sisters and
one
brother, James. He died in 1891 but was single and without children
as none
were mentioned in his will.
But I would bet that his father, Denis had brothers. I just haven't
found
them yet.
They all lived in Wexford Ireland and were mostly connected with the
sea.
James was a sailor who came to the US and became a citizen in 1853,
captained a barque ( ship) to the Orient and eventually settled in
Japan
where he lived. I would imagine the rest of them stayed in Wexford
but some
may have immigrated to the US.
If anyone on your list has any information in this area I would
appreciate
it. I will have to look into this DNA testing to see how it might
help me.
It would not be giving me direct ancestors but would be branching
out on my
tree. Right now I am in a forest because of my branching out
forays.
Oh yeah, I was also born in Ireland but in Dublin. I live in the US.
Thank you.
Eileen Grady ( Doyle/Duff/Carroll/Murphy/Lawlor)
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:27:53 -0500
From: "Lura" <luraj(a)triad.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [CARROLL-DNA] Orange and Rockingham Counties, NC
To: <carroll-dna(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <010701c83db5$e03a4830$6401a8c0@lura2004>
Hello Eileen,
It is always good to meet another possible relative. Perhaps there
is
a kinship in far away days, and there may be some on the list whose
ancestors did not leave Ireland or another "old country" until after
1800. However, many of us who are so totally against a brick wall
know our ancestors were here by 1750.
I don't know of a way that you could be tested by DNA to reveal your
CARROLL lineage. Only a man can take the Y-DNA test, because that
genetic material is passed only from father to son, to son, to son,
to
son, etc. You are exactly correct in thinking that since your
great-granduncle James died without children, you would have to go
back and see if his father Denis had any brothers. If so, maybe
they
had sons whose descendants could be tested.
If you take the mtDNA test for women, you might learn about your
MATERNAL only lineage. It would show your mother, her mother, her
mother, etc.
There are other tests beginning to gain attention which claim to
show
a person's total background. I know very little about them, but
frankly I am somewhat skeptical about some of them. They don't test
enough alleles to make any kind of valid judgment. I'm afraid some
of
the hype attached to this by the media might tend to cause people to
not trust the valid tests done by independent labs such as
FamilyTreeDNA. If you decide to have this kind of test, I would
encourage you to research the lab carefully and pay for testing the
largest number of markers possible.
Lura
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eileen Grady" <eileengr(a)optonline.net>
To: <carroll-dna(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [CARROLL-DNA] Orange and Rockingham Counties, NC
: Hi, I am new to your website. I have been researching my
genealogy
for the
: last 5 years. We have a Carroll connection but not in the US that
I
know of
: yet. My great grandmother was a Carroll. She had five sisters
and
one
: brother, James. He died in 1891 but was single and without
children
as none
: were mentioned in his will.
: But I would bet that his father, Denis had brothers. I just
haven't
found
: them yet.
: They all lived in Wexford Ireland and were mostly connected with
the
sea.
: James was a sailor who came to the US and became a citizen in
1853,
: captained a barque ( ship) to the Orient and eventually settled in
Japan
: where he lived. I would imagine the rest of them stayed in
Wexford
but some
: may have immigrated to the US.
: If anyone on your list has any information in this area I would
appreciate
: it. I will have to look into this DNA testing to see how it might
help me.
: It would not be giving me direct ancestors but would be branching
out on my
: tree. Right now I am in a forest because of my branching out
forays.
:
: Oh yeah, I was also born in Ireland but in Dublin. I live in the
US.
: Thank you.
:
: Eileen Grady ( Doyle/Duff/Carroll/Murphy/Lawlor)
:
:
:
: -------------------------------
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CARROLL-DNA-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without
the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
------------------------------
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