Hi Neal,
It certainly is a journey, learning as we go, and I am thrilled to have
enlisted 7 participants for the Bagwell group (although one has not returned
his sample yet). We now have 4 full sets of results processed and 3 of them
are virtually identical type E 37/37 and 36/37 matches. The other is the
type R. In some other research I am doing, I came across a person's surname
website (for Cheek) and found this slightly more simplified, but seemingly
accurate explanation of Haplogroups, especially R and E in England and
Western Europe.
http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html (see below).
Should be relevant to your Carriers, too (I don't know if any of it is
copyrighted).
And here is a link to a map showing relative occurance in each country.
http://www.geocities.com/littlednaproject/Y-MAP.GIF
Who is the Dave (W. John line) that you are looking at data? Is it one of
the 2 Carriers already posted to the group? My brother's mtDNA results are
in, and there are a handful of low resolution matches, 2 of which are also
high resolution matches. I don't know what that means yet. For the y-DNA
results, I have found charts estimating what percentage of a chance of a
common ancestor how many generations back. I have not found something
similar for mtDNA yet. How about you?
As far as the E1b1b1 group being white Africans, there seems to be some
theory that this sub-clade arose in the Middle East and entered Africa as a
back-migration. Although I have not researched it, it makes me wonder if
this could be the Haplotype of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, and Mohammed, etc.,
and the Coptic Christians of Egypt? There is an FTDNA group specifically
for E1b1b1. I'm not sure what that will prove, by putting our results there
also, but they are numerous.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving! Dave and I will be in Mexico next week.
Linda
Haplogroups: Historical Origins of the Cheek/Chick Family
The Y-DNA test results indicate that the direct male-line ancestors of the
main related groups in our study (both "Group 1" and "Group 2") were
western
Europeans, probably English of Celtic origin (Anglo-Celts) or "Ancient
Britons."
There are stories in many Cheek families about Native American ancestry. So
far, we have not found genetic evidence of Native American ancestry in
the *direct
male line.* A participant could still have Native American ancestors in a
different line (e.g. a female ancestor), but this would not show up on a
Y-DNA test, because Y-DNA is only passed from father to son. The origin of
the Cheek surname, however, is probably English in most cases.
What Are Haplogroups?
DNA testing has revolutionized the way that scientists study human
migration. Scientists have collected genetic samples from people all over
the world, hoping to understand how populations moved out of Africa (where
the human race originated) and into Europe, Asia, and the Americas. Based
on these studies, scientists have divided DNA into large "super-families"
called "haplogroups." It is possible to predict a person's Y-DNA
haplogroup
from the results of a 12-marker or 25-marker Y-DNA test, although sometimes
an additional test, called a "SNP" (single nucleotide polymorphism) test, is
needed for confirmation.
Your Y-DNA haplogroup gives you *clues* about the geographic origin of your
direct male-line ancestors. For example, if your family came from England
and your haplogroup is R1b1, it's likely that your direct male-line
ancestors, around 2,000 years ago, were probably Celts living in the British
Isles. However, haplogroups are *not* the same as racial or ethnic groups.
Haplogroups overlap national and ethnic boundaries, and most ethnic groups
have several different haplogroups in their populations. You have to
consider your haplogroup in conjunction with other information about your
family, such as surname history, patterns of immigration to America, etc.
Another caveat is that this science is truly on the cutting edge, and new
developments are happening all the time that could change our understanding
of some of the following theories.
With that in mind, the three most common Y-DNA haplogroups in the British
Isles are:
1. *R1b1*: Western
European<http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html#r1b1>
2. *I1a*: Scandinavian <
http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html#i1a>
3. *R1a*: Central/Eastern
European<http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html#r1a>
A fourth haplogroup, *E3b* <
http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html#e3b>,
(recently renamed E1b1b) is occasionally found in England, but is more
common in southern Europe and North Africa. *View map of European Y-DNA
Haplogroups* <
http://www.geocities.com/littlednaproject/Y-MAP.GIF>
*Haplogroup R1b1 (M343, P25) (Western Europeans)*
Most of the participants in the Cheek DNA study, including everyone in the
main related groups—what we've been calling "Group 1" and "Group
2"
(see Results
Summary <
http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/results.html>)—are in Haplogroup
R1b1. This is the most common Y-DNA haplogroup in western Europe. The
frequency of R1b1 is highest along the Atlantic coast of Europe (up to 90%
of Welsh, Irish, and Basque populations, for example), and declines as you
move east. Haplogroup R1b1 probably originated in a group of people who
"wintered" in what is now Spain during the last Ice Age and then moved north
when the glaciers melted 10,000 to 12,000 years ago. The ancestors of R1b1
were probably the Paleolithic people of western Europe, famous for their
cave paintings in Lascaux, France <
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lascaux> and
other archeological sites.
[image: R1b Distribution Map] *Distribution of Haplogroup R1b (Relative
Genetics <
http://dna.ancestry.com/>)*
Until recently, Haplogroup R1b1 was known as R1b. It is also called "P25"
because it is defined by what's called the "P25 mutation." In the
book *Saxons,
Vikings, and Celts,* author Bryan Sykes calls R1b1 the "Clan of Oisin."
A subset of the R1b1 haplogroup known as the "Atlantic Modal Haplotype"
(AMH) consists of 6 genetic markers that have been found at high frequencies
in people from the European Atlantic coast, such as Wales, Ireland, the
Orkney Islands, the Dutch province of Friesland, and the Basque country in
northern Spain. In the British Isles, the AMH is associated with the
Celts<http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html#celts>,
including English people with Celtic ancestry ("Anglo-Celts"), as well as
the Irish, Welsh, and Scots.
Over the past 10,000 years, the British Isles have been home to a wide
variety of people, including prehistoric tribes, Celts, Germanic tribes such
as the Anglo-Saxons, Vikings from Scandinavia, and the Normans from France,
who were basically French-speaking Vikings. Although historians have
usually assumed that the "ancient Britons" (Celts and others) were wiped out
by the Anglo-Saxon invasions, or were all pushed into Scotland and Wales,
recent genetic studies show that the original native population survived in
many parts of England, especially in the southwest and along the southern
coast.
In our study, the main related group, or "Group 1," matches the AMH on 5 out
of 6 markers, and has a 2-step mutation on the remaining marker (a genetic
distance of "2"). "Group 2" is also very close to the AMH, matching
on 4
markers and having one-step mutations on 2 other markers (also a genetic
distance of "2"). This is very consistent with the Cheeks being from
southern England, which is where we think their surname originated. The
Cheek/Chick surname was particularly common in the southwestern counties of
Devon, Dorset, and Somerset, which have a long and colorful Celtic history.
Haplogroup R1b1 is also the most common Y-DNA haplogroup in the white U.S.
population. As of May 2008, nearly 70% of the Y-DNA results submitted to
the Ybase <
http://www.ybase.org/statistics.asp#haplochart> website were
Haplogroup R1b, while only 17% were Haplogroup I and 7% were Haplogroup
R1a. A 2005 study found that 58% of white American males are in Haplogroup
R1b.
*Haplogroup I1a (P38, P30) (Scandinavians)*
The second-most common haplogroup in England is Haplogroup I1a, sometimes
called the "Viking haplogroup" because it seems to follow routes of Viking
conquest in northern Europe. For example, Haplogroup I1a is significantly
more common in parts of England that had historical Viking settlements. A
closely related haplogroup, I1b, is found in central and eastern Europe.
The ancestors of I1a probably survived the last Ice Age in an isolated
pocket of south-central Europe and then moved north when the weather warmed,
eventually reaching Scandinavia several thousand years ago. Haplogroup I1a
is present in about 35% of the population of southern Norway, southwestern
Sweden, and Denmark.
[image: I1a Distribution Map] *Distribution of Haplogroup I1a (Relative
Genetics <
http://dna.ancestry.com/>)*
*Haplogroup R1a (M17) (Eastern/Central Europeans)*
Haplogroup R1a is found throughout Europe, but its frequency declines as you
move from east to west—exactly the opposite of Haplogroup R1b1. Haplogroup
R1a occurs at highest frequency among the Slavic populations of eastern
Europe and the Ukraine, and in central European countries such as Germany.
It is also found in western Asia, central Asia, and India. R1a is the third
Y-DNA haplogroup commonly found in England, although it is rarer than either
R1b1 or I1a. Haplogroup R1a probably came to England with the Anglo-Saxons
who invaded during the 7th and 8th centuries A.D.
[image: R1a Distribution Map] *Distribution of Haplogroup R1a (Relative
Genetics <
http://dna.ancestry.com/>)*
Because of genetic similarities between R1a and R1b1, scientists believe
that both lineages are descended from a common ancestral group of people who
lived in the Middle East over 30,000 years ago. As these people slowly
migrated into Europe and Asia, their populations diverged, with the
ancestors of R1b1 traveling west and R1a's ancestors heading east. During
the Ice Age the ancestors of R1b1 and R1a became isolated from each other at
opposite ends of the European continent. The ancestors of R1b1 survived on
the Iberian peninsula—now Spain—while the ancestors of R1a lived on the
fertile steppes of what is now the Ukraine. Approximately 6,000 to 8,000
years ago, the ancestors of the R1a lineage began migrating westward into
Europe, part of a great movement of people known as the Indo-European
expansion. The Indo-Europeans eventually came to dominate the entire
European continent. Virtually all modern European languages are part of the
Indo-European language family. One exception is the unique Basque language,
which is believed to be the only surviving descendant of the lost languages
spoken in western Europe before the arrival of the Indo-European tribes.
*So where did the "Celts" come from?* For a long time, historians believed
that the Celtic people of the British Isles were descendants of a tribe of
Indo-Europeans who settled in central Europe several thousand years ago.
The Romans called them the Gauls, but 18th century scholars took the name
"Celts" from the ancient Greek name *Keltoi.* According to the traditional
theory, the Celtic tribes began a period of expansion and military conquest
about 3,000 to 5,000 years ago, and eventually conquered much of western
Europe and the British Isles. What happened to the "native" western
Europeans (the pre-Indo-Europeans) has always been a bit of a mystery.
Some time after the Celts arrived in the British Isles, the "native" Britons
disappeared off the face of the earth. They left behind pottery, burial
mounds, and some amazing archeaological relics like Stonehenge, but little
else—or so it seemed. Genetic studies have rewritten this history. Celtic
people such as the Welsh and Irish speak Indo-European languages, but their
Y-DNA is similar to that of the Basques. So, the Welsh and Irish appear to
be more closely related to the non-Indo-European Basques than they are to
Indo-European groups elsewhere in northern Europe, such as Germans and
Scandinavians. This does not mean that the Basques were direct ancestors of
the Celts or visa versa, but it suggests that the Basques and the Celts have
a common origin dating back many thousands of years to pre-historic western
Europe, before the arrival of Indo-European tribes. Only the Basques
managed to keep their ancestral language alive to the present day. In the
British Isles and elsewhere, the people lost their original languages,
probably as a result of trade, military conquest, and intermarriage with
Indo-Europeans.
According to many scholars, there is no evidence of a Celtic military
invasion leading to total population replacement in the British Isles.
There were probably periods of warfare and conquest, but other times when
people traveled and traded peacefully. Due to these influences, the native
population gradually began to adopt Celtic languages and aspects of Celtic
culture and technology (such as metal-working). Over time, the ancient
Britons adapted and evolved, and finally *became* the people we think of
today as "the Celts."
*Haplogroup E3b or E1b1b (M35) (the Mediterranean)*
The E3b haplogroup (recently renamed E1b1b) is common in the Mediterranean
region, including North Africa, Spain, Italy, Greece, and Balkan countries
such as Albania and Serbia. The ancestors of the E3b (or E1b1b) haplogroup
probably lived in the horn of Africa (present-day Somalia) during the last
Ice Age and moved into southern Europe via the Middle East during what's
called the "Neolithic migration" around 9,000 years ago. The frequency of
E3b in northern Europe and the British Isles is very low, although it does
show up occasionally in people with no known Mediterranean ancestry. By
contrast, E3b is present in about 25% of Silicians and Greeks, and 50%-80%
of North Africans. It is particularly common in the Berber people, who live
in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya. It's also the 2nd most common Y-DNA
haplogroup in men of Ashkenazi Jewish descent. The presence of the E3b
haplogroup in the British population (though rare) is evidence of past
migration of people from southern Europe, perhaps Roman soldiers or
settlers.
[image: E3b Distribution Map] *Distribution of Haplogroup E3b (Relative
Genetics <
http://dna.ancestry.com/>)*
*Other European Haplogroups*
Other European Y-DNA haplogroups include Haplogroup N2 (Finland and Russia),
Q (Norway), G (central and southern Europe), and J2 (the eastern
Mediterranean and Ashkenazi Jews). These haplogroups are only occasionally
found in the British Isles outside of immigrant populations.
*Mitochondrial DNA*
Both males and females have mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) but it is inherited
only from the mother. Mitochondrial DNA can be used to study female-line
ancestry, just like Y-DNA is used to study male-line ancestry.
Mitochondrial DNA is categorized into haplogroups like Y-DNA, but the
letters do not correspond to Y-DNA haplogroups (so don't get confused!).
Interestingly, mtDNA haplogroups are not as closely tied to geography as
Y-DNA haplogroups. This is probably because in most cultures, women move
away to live with their husband's family and not visa versa. Mitochondrial
DNA haplogroups are the subject of the book *The Seven Daughters of Eve* by
Bryan Sykes.
*The Rest of Your DNA*
All the rest of your DNA gets "mixed up" in every generation. That is, you
inherit half your DNA from your mother and half from your father. The only
exceptions are Y-DNA and mtDNA. You have a 50% chance of inheriting any
particular gene from your parents, and your children have a 50% chance of
inheriting that gene from you. As a result, DNA tests (except Y-DNA and
mtDNA) become unreliable for studying family relationships beyond 2 or 3
generations.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Neal Carrier <nfcarrier(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Two of us are still waiting for our results, due in December
sometime.
I found a Morgan DNA site that has data for about 95 people. I compared
Dave's data (W. John line) looking for a match but didn't find any.
Interestingly enough Linda B. they had one test E1b1b1c2 so the E's must
show up elsewhere also.
I wonder if the E's can claim to be White-African Americans?
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