I have misplaced my sample kit. What are the possibilities of another kit being mailed to
me? (Randall Carrier)> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:41:26 -0800> From:
linda(a)bagwellnet.com> To: carrier(a)rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [CARRIER] DNA
testing> > Hi Neal,> > It certainly is a journey, learning as we go, and I am
thrilled to have> enlisted 7 participants for the Bagwell group (although one has not
returned> his sample yet). We now have 4 full sets of results processed and 3 of
them> are virtually identical type E 37/37 and 36/37 matches. The other is the> type
R. In some other research I am doing, I came across a person's surname> website
(for Cheek) and found this slightly more simplified, but seemingly> accurate
explanation of Haplogroups, especially R and E in England and> Western Europe.
http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html (see below).> Should be relevant to your
Carriers, too (I don't know if any of it is> copyrighted).> And here is a link
to a map showing relative occurance in each country.>
http://www.geocities.com/littlednaproject/Y-MAP.GIF> > Who is the Dave (W. John
line) that you are looking at data? Is it one of> the 2 Carriers already posted to the
group? My brother's mtDNA results are> in, and there are a handful of low
resolution matches, 2 of which are also> high resolution matches. I don't know what
that means yet. For the y-DNA> results, I have found charts estimating what percentage
of a chance of a> common ancestor how many generations back. I have not found
something> similar for mtDNA yet. How about you?> > As far as the E1b1b1 group
being white Africans, there seems to be some> theory that this sub-clade arose in the
Middle East and entered Africa as a> back-migration. Although I have not researched it,
it makes me wonder if> this could be the Haplotype of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, and
Mohammed, etc.,> and the Coptic Christians of Egypt? There is an FTDNA group
specifically> for E1b1b1. I'm not sure what that will prove, by putting our results
there> also, but they are numerous.> > Have a Happy Thanksgiving! Dave and I will
be in Mexico next week.> Linda> Haplogroups: Historical Origins of the Cheek/Chick
Family> > The Y-DNA test results indicate that the direct male-line ancestors of
the> main related groups in our study (both "Group 1" and "Group
2") were western> Europeans, probably English of Celtic origin (Anglo-Celts) or
"Ancient> Britons."> > There are stories in many Cheek families about
Native American ancestry. So> far, we have not found genetic evidence of Native
American ancestry in> the *direct> male line.* A participant could still have Native
American ancestors in a> different line (e.g. a female ancestor), but this would not
show up on a> Y-DNA test, because Y-DNA is only passed from father to son. The origin
of> the Cheek surname, however, is probably English in most cases.> What Are
Haplogroups?> > DNA testing has revolutionized the way that scientists study
human> migration. Scientists have collected genetic samples from people all over>
the world, hoping to understand how populations moved out of Africa (where> the human
race originated) and into Europe, Asia, and the Americas. Based> on these studies,
scientists have divided DNA into large "super-families"> called
"haplogroups." It is possible to predict a person's Y-DNA haplogroup>
from the results of a 12-marker or 25-marker Y-DNA test, although sometimes> an
additional test, called a "SNP" (single nucleotide polymorphism) test, is>
needed for confirmation.> > Your Y-DNA haplogroup gives you *clues* about the
geographic origin of your> direct male-line ancestors. For example, if your family came
from England> and your haplogroup is R1b1, it's likely that your direct
male-line> ancestors, around 2,000 years ago, were probably Celts living in the
British> Isles. However, haplogroups are *not* the same as racial or ethnic groups.>
Haplogroups overlap national and ethnic boundaries, and most ethnic groups> have
several different haplogroups in their populations. You have to> consider your
haplogroup in conjunction with other information about your> family, such as surname
history, patterns of immigration to America, etc.> > Another caveat is that this
science is truly on the cutting edge, and new> developments are happening all the time
that could change our understanding> of some of the following theories.> > With
that in mind, the three most common Y-DNA haplogroups in the British> Isles are:>
> 1. *R1b1*: Western
European<http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html#r1b1>>
2. *I1a*: Scandinavian <
http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html#i1a>> 3. *R1a*:
Central/Eastern>
European<http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html#r1a>> >
A fourth haplogroup, *E3b* <
http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html#e3b>,>
(recently renamed E1b1b) is occasionally found in England, but is more> common in
southern Europe and North Africa. *View map of European Y-DNA> Haplogroups*
<
http://www.geocities.com/littlednaproject/Y-MAP.GIF>> > *Haplogroup R1b1
(M343, P25) (Western Europeans)*> > Most of the participants in the Cheek DNA study,
including everyone in the> main related groups—what we've been calling "Group
1" and "Group 2"> (see Results> Summary
<
http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/results.html>)—are in Haplogroup> R1b1. This is
the most common Y-DNA haplogroup in western Europe. The> frequency of R1b1 is highest
along the Atlantic coast of Europe (up to 90%> of Welsh, Irish, and Basque populations,
for example), and declines as you> move east. Haplogroup R1b1 probably originated in a
group of people who> "wintered" in what is now Spain during the last Ice Age
and then moved north> when the glaciers melted 10,000 to 12,000 years ago. The
ancestors of R1b1> were probably the Paleolithic people of western Europe, famous for
their> cave paintings in Lascaux, France <
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lascaux>
and> other archeological sites.> [image: R1b Distribution Map] *Distribution of
Haplogroup R1b (Relative> Genetics <
http://dna.ancestry.com/>)*> > Until
recently, Haplogroup R1b1 was known as R1b. It is also called "P25"> because
it is defined by what's called the "P25 mutation." In the> book
*Saxons,> Vikings, and Celts,* author Bryan Sykes calls R1b1 the "Clan of
Oisin."> > A subset of the R1b1 haplogroup known as the "Atlantic Modal
Haplotype"> (AMH) consists of 6 genetic markers that have been found at high
frequencies> in people from the European Atlantic coast, such as Wales, Ireland,
the> Orkney Islands, the Dutch province of Friesland, and the Basque country in>
northern Spain. In the British Isles, the AMH is associated with the>
Celts<http://www.moonzstuff.com/dna/haplo.html#celts>,> including English people
with Celtic ancestry ("Anglo-Celts"), as well as> the Irish, Welsh, and
Scots.> > Over the past 10,000 years, the British Isles have been home to a wide>
variety of people, including prehistoric tribes, Celts, Germanic tribes such> as the
Anglo-Saxons, Vikings from Scandinavia, and the Normans from France,> who were
basically French-speaking Vikings. Although historians have> usually assumed that the
"ancient Britons" (Celts and others) were wiped out> by the Anglo-Saxon
invasions, or were all pushed into Scotland and Wales,> recent genetic studies show
that the original native population survived in> many parts of England, especially in
the southwest and along the southern> coast.> > In our study, the main related
group, or "Group 1," matches the AMH on 5 out> of 6 markers, and has a 2-step
mutation on the remaining marker (a genetic> distance of "2"). "Group
2" is also very close to the AMH, matching on 4> markers and having one-step
mutations on 2 other markers (also a genetic> distance of "2"). This is very
consistent with the Cheeks being from> southern England, which is where we think their
surname originated. The> Cheek/Chick surname was particularly common in the
southwestern counties of> Devon, Dorset, and Somerset, which have a long and colorful
Celtic history.> > Haplogroup R1b1 is also the most common Y-DNA haplogroup in the
white U.S.> population. As of May 2008, nearly 70% of the Y-DNA results submitted
to> the Ybase <
http://www.ybase.org/statistics.asp#haplochart> website were>
Haplogroup R1b, while only 17% were Haplogroup I and 7% were Haplogroup> R1a. A 2005
study found that 58% of white American males are in Haplogroup> R1b.> >
*Haplogroup I1a (P38, P30) (Scandinavians)*> > The second-most common haplogroup in
England is Haplogroup I1a, sometimes> called the "Viking haplogroup" because
it seems to follow routes of Viking> conquest in northern Europe. For example,
Haplogroup I1a is significantly> more common in parts of England that had historical
Viking settlements. A> closely related haplogroup, I1b, is found in central and eastern
Europe.> The ancestors of I1a probably survived the last Ice Age in an isolated>
pocket of south-central Europe and then moved north when the weather warmed,>
eventually reaching Scandinavia several thousand years ago. Haplogroup I1a> is present
in about 35% of the population of southern Norway, southwestern> Sweden, and
Denmark.> [image: I1a Distribution Map] *Distribution of Haplogroup I1a (Relative>
Genetics <
http://dna.ancestry.com/>)*> > *Haplogroup R1a (M17)
(Eastern/Central Europeans)*> > Haplogroup R1a is found throughout Europe, but its
frequency declines as you> move from east to west—exactly the opposite of Haplogroup
R1b1. Haplogroup> R1a occurs at highest frequency among the Slavic populations of
eastern> Europe and the Ukraine, and in central European countries such as Germany.>
It is also found in western Asia, central Asia, and India. R1a is the third> Y-DNA
haplogroup commonly found in England, although it is rarer than either> R1b1 or I1a.
Haplogroup R1a probably came to England with the Anglo-Saxons> who invaded during the
7th and 8th centuries A.D.> [image: R1a Distribution Map] *Distribution of Haplogroup
R1a (Relative> Genetics <
http://dna.ancestry.com/>)*> > Because of genetic
similarities between R1a and R1b1, scientists believe> that both lineages are descended
from a common ancestral group of people who> lived in the Middle East over 30,000 years
ago. As these people slowly> migrated into Europe and Asia, their populations diverged,
with the> ancestors of R1b1 traveling west and R1a's ancestors heading east.
During> the Ice Age the ancestors of R1b1 and R1a became isolated from each other
at> opposite ends of the European continent. The ancestors of R1b1 survived on> the
Iberian peninsula—now Spain—while the ancestors of R1a lived on the> fertile steppes of
what is now the Ukraine. Approximately 6,000 to 8,000> years ago, the ancestors of the
R1a lineage began migrating westward into> Europe, part of a great movement of people
known as the Indo-European> expansion. The Indo-Europeans eventually came to dominate
the entire> European continent. Virtually all modern European languages are part of
the> Indo-European language family. One exception is the unique Basque language,>
which is believed to be the only surviving descendant of the lost languages> spoken in
western Europe before the arrival of the Indo-European tribes.> > *So where did the
"Celts" come from?* For a long time, historians believed> that the Celtic
people of the British Isles were descendants of a tribe of> Indo-Europeans who settled
in central Europe several thousand years ago.> The Romans called them the Gauls, but
18th century scholars took the name> "Celts" from the ancient Greek name
*Keltoi.* According to the traditional> theory, the Celtic tribes began a period of
expansion and military conquest> about 3,000 to 5,000 years ago, and eventually
conquered much of western> Europe and the British Isles. What happened to the
"native" western> Europeans (the pre-Indo-Europeans) has always been a bit of
a mystery.> > Some time after the Celts arrived in the British Isles, the
"native" Britons> disappeared off the face of the earth. They left behind
pottery, burial> mounds, and some amazing archeaological relics like Stonehenge, but
little> else—or so it seemed. Genetic studies have rewritten this history. Celtic>
people such as the Welsh and Irish speak Indo-European languages, but their> Y-DNA is
similar to that of the Basques. So, the Welsh and Irish appear to> be more closely
related to the non-Indo-European Basques than they are to> Indo-European groups
elsewhere in northern Europe, such as Germans and> Scandinavians. This does not mean
that the Basques were direct ancestors of> the Celts or visa versa, but it suggests
that the Basques and the Celts have> a common origin dating back many thousands of
years to pre-historic western> Europe, before the arrival of Indo-European tribes. Only
the Basques> managed to keep their ancestral language alive to the present day. In
the> British Isles and elsewhere, the people lost their original languages,>
probably as a result of trade, military conquest, and intermarriage with>
Indo-Europeans.> > According to many scholars, there is no evidence of a Celtic
military> invasion leading to total population replacement in the British Isles.>
There were probably periods of warfare and conquest, but other times when> people
traveled and traded peacefully. Due to these influences, the native> population
gradually began to adopt Celtic languages and aspects of Celtic> culture and technology
(such as metal-working). Over time, the ancient> Britons adapted and evolved, and
finally *became* the people we think of> today as "the Celts."> >
*Haplogroup E3b or E1b1b (M35) (the Mediterranean)*> > The E3b haplogroup (recently
renamed E1b1b) is common in the Mediterranean> region, including North Africa, Spain,
Italy, Greece, and Balkan countries> such as Albania and Serbia. The ancestors of the
E3b (or E1b1b) haplogroup> probably lived in the horn of Africa (present-day Somalia)
during the last> Ice Age and moved into southern Europe via the Middle East during
what's> called the "Neolithic migration" around 9,000 years ago. The
frequency of> E3b in northern Europe and the British Isles is very low, although it
does> show up occasionally in people with no known Mediterranean ancestry. By>
contrast, E3b is present in about 25% of Silicians and Greeks, and 50%-80%> of North
Africans. It is particularly common in the Berber people, who live> in Morocco,
Algeria, Tunisia and Libya. It's also the 2nd most common Y-DNA> haplogroup in men
of Ashkenazi Jewish descent. The presence of the E3b> haplogroup in the British
population (though rare) is evidence of past> migration of people from southern Europe,
perhaps Roman soldiers or> settlers.> [image: E3b Distribution Map] *Distribution of
Haplogroup E3b (Relative> Genetics <
http://dna.ancestry.com/>)*> > *Other
European Haplogroups*> > Other European Y-DNA haplogroups include Haplogroup N2
(Finland and Russia),> Q (Norway), G (central and southern Europe), and J2 (the
eastern> Mediterranean and Ashkenazi Jews). These haplogroups are only occasionally>
found in the British Isles outside of immigrant populations.> > *Mitochondrial
DNA*> > Both males and females have mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) but it is
inherited> only from the mother. Mitochondrial DNA can be used to study female-line>
ancestry, just like Y-DNA is used to study male-line ancestry.> Mitochondrial DNA is
categorized into haplogroups like Y-DNA, but the> letters do not correspond to Y-DNA
haplogroups (so don't get confused!).> Interestingly, mtDNA haplogroups are not as
closely tied to geography as> Y-DNA haplogroups. This is probably because in most
cultures, women move> away to live with their husband's family and not visa versa.
Mitochondrial> DNA haplogroups are the subject of the book *The Seven Daughters of Eve*
by> Bryan Sykes.> > *The Rest of Your DNA*> > All the rest of your DNA gets
"mixed up" in every generation. That is, you> inherit half your DNA from your
mother and half from your father. The only> exceptions are Y-DNA and mtDNA. You have a
50% chance of inheriting any> particular gene from your parents, and your children have
a 50% chance of> inheriting that gene from you. As a result, DNA tests (except Y-DNA
and> mtDNA) become unreliable for studying family relationships beyond 2 or 3>
generations.> > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 5:43 PM, Neal Carrier
<nfcarrier(a)gmail.com> wrote:> > > Two of us are still waiting for our
results, due in December sometime.> > I found a Morgan DNA site that has data for
about 95 people. I compared> > Dave's data (W. John line) looking for a match
but didn't find any.> >> > Interestingly enough Linda B. they had one test
E1b1b1c2 so the E's must> > show up elsewhere also.> > I wonder if the
E's can claim to be White-African Americans?> >> >
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