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Greetings, It's time to try this once again. The 1820 Census has a
Hannah CARRIER living in Lycoming Co., PA, fairly obviously a widow.
Some family notes say that her husband was Thomas. I have doubts that
this Thomas was the one from CT (can't say exactly why). Does anyone
have info on these Carriers? One of their sons, I believe, was George.
Thanks,
BarbCB
This subject has been going around the net quite a bit for the last few weeks.
I've been reluctant to mention it in case it wasn't true but now that Dick Eastman has written about it
it has to be real.
http://www.rootsforum.com/newsletter/
Hope no one on our list got taken in.
Neal
In a message dated 3/9/2003 4:02:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
CARRIER-D-request(a)rootsweb.com writes:
> About Ms Armentrouts
> conjecture that John Sr. had 14 children at the time of his death, because
> of the 14 pounds left in John's estate after the widows share was
> subtracted.
Thanks for the info, cousin Tom. I suspect you are right. Wish I could
manage another Salt Lake trip soon, but will have to wait until next year.
Was the info you spoke of on a film? If so, could you post the film number?
Actually, I just fell into most of the info that I posted. I was researching
another family line when I noticed the Carrier/Morrell families. That was
very exciting, believe me. Viewing some of the films can be very time
consuming, and I had only five days.
Regards,
Janet Paxton
Yorba Linda, CA
Hi! I'm basically new to the list and have been reading some of the posts. Thought I better join in and hopefully maybe somebody can help me get past my brickwall.
I have researched my Carrier family back to Jacob Carrier, b. 1798 in PA, d. 1861 in Ellenboro, Grant Co., WI. He married Sarah Stephens, b. 1798, d. 4 Nov 1873 in Transfer, Pymatuning Twp., Mercer Co., PA. There were 9 children to their union.
Hope somebody can help. Thanks in advance.
Nita Kerr
nita(a)zoominternet.net
My wife is Jean Carryer Steinhaus. Her father was Omar Newton Carryer and he
is in Georgie Carrier Early Amentrout's book on page 15. We purchased a
copy of her book 1n 1988. She visited with him in 1972.
Hi Janet, Thanks for the info. For the listers : About Ms Armentrouts
conjecture that John Sr. had 14 children at the time of his death, because
of the 14 pounds left in John's estate after the widows share was
subtracted. If you subtract the widows share (which in this case was 1/3 of
the total ) you have a balance of 14lbs 8 schilling and 71/4 pence. If you
multiply the child's portion of 1pound 6schillings and 2/34pence by eleven
it works out exactly to 14 lbs 8 schilling and 7/14 pence. Therefore, I
believe that John Sr. had at the most 12 children, often the eldest son did
not receive a cash distribution, because he inherited the land and
livestock. On the other hand it could have been as few as nine the number
generally identified with John Sr. with daughters or sons in law also
receiving a child's portion which I have seen in several wills of this era.
If there were 11 or 12 children I believe most likely the other children
were married daughters whom we haven't identified with John Sr. at this
point. In 1781 After John Jr. and Mary sold their Virginia holdings and at
least part of John Sr.s they were among the wealthiest families in
Washington District of North Carolina, due to their ownership of 16 horses
listed in a special enumeration of taxable property, and a count of cash on
hand, because of the Revolution there was not at that time a national
currency. While everyone else in the district divulged, their pounds,
schillings, and pence the entry for John was simply " a heap of cash". The
ownership of all those horses support Mrs. Armentrouts claim they were
farmers and livestock breeders.Incidentally, this enumeration also lists one
slave this is the only place I have come across where one of the Virginia
Carriers owned a slave.---- Cousin TomOriginal Message -----
From: <JanPax(a)aol.com>
To: <CARRIER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:08 AM
Subject: [CARRIER] Last of Salt Lake info
> Hi Listers,
>
> I copied several pages from "Carrier-Carryer and Allied Lines," by Georgie
> Carrier Early Armentrout. This book was published by Gateway Press, Inc.,
> Baltimore, in 1985. It is currently on the shelf at Salt Lake, but has
not
> been filmed. I'm sure some of you are familiar with it.
>
> The author claims her Carrier family came straight to and settled in what
is
> now Shenandoah Co., VA, from England. The earliest date she has found of
W.
> John Carrier is Shen. Co., VA, - a deed dated 1759. She thinks W. John
was
> likely born circa 1705, and died Nov. 1773 in Shen. Co., VA. She thinks
W.
> John was married more than once and that Jemima was his second wife. She
> believes that W. John married Jemima Nicholas, sister of Richard Nicholas,
> and that both families came from England together.
>
> She says W. John had 14 living children when his estate was settled in
1777,
> and some of the children stayed in England and did not come to VA with the
> rest of the family. She also says that Thomas Carrier, of the 1755
Militia,
> originally began the trek for W. John, and Henry, of the 1755 Militia, and
> was responsible for them coming to VA.
>
> She cites "Lists of Emigrants from England to America 1718-1759 No. 461-P.
> 38" - Thomas Carrier - Goodmansfield Parish, London - Service 5 years VA -
no
> age - signed March 16, 1750 -R-H (p. 20) (Agent) Robert Hutchings of
London,
> a merchant. She also states that if "her" Henry Carrier came as an
> indentured servant, his record has been destroyed.
>
> The author claims that W. John Carrier, from England, settled on three
> hundred acres lying on Passage Creek in Powells Fort, Frederick Co., VA,
in
> 1759. W. John paid two hundred pounds for the three hundred acres. This
> land was released to him Aug. 7, 1763, Deed Book 8, P. 500-504, County
> Clerk's Office, Winchester, VA.
>
> She also says that W. John, according to items listed in the appraisal of
his
> movable estate in 1773, was a farmer and raised livestock; he was a
Christian
> man and had some education. "He was also a proud man as he had a looking
> glass." Also, he had a lot of household goods for that period of time.
>
> "Shenandoah Co., Woodstock, VA Wills and Settlements - Book A, P. 167."
W.
> John Carrier's estate was settled Aug. 30, 1777 - amount of estate was 21
> lbs., 12 shillings, 11 pence. Widow's part was 7 lbs., 4 shillings, 3 3/4
> pence. Each child's part was 1 lb, 6 shillings, 2 3/4 pence. 14 lbs.
were
> left after the widow's part, and indicates there were 14 children living.
> The Inventory and Appraisal List was dated Dec. 1773, Shenandoah Co. (then
> Dunmore Co.). John Morrell, William Wood, Joseph Dinton (Denton) were the
> appraisers. Thomas Marshall, County Clerk. "This appr. was taken
Tuesday,
> Nov. 23, 1773. John Morrell was likely the father of John Carryer, Jr.'s
> wife Mary."
> 1 W. John Carrier had ch.:
> 1-1 John Carryer, Jr. - b.c. 1728 in England
> 1-2 Henry Carrier - b. 1730 in England
> 1-3 Thomas Carryer - b. 1732 in England
> 1-4 Jonathan Carrier
> 1-5 William Carrier
> 1-6 Susanna Carrier
> 1-7 Solomon Carrier - b.c. 1769
> Richard Nicholas was appointed guardian of Solomon Carrier - See No. 1-7
rec.
>
> (Note from Janet - the above was excerpted and paraphrased from Chapter
1.)
>
> Chapter 2 shows 1-1 John Carryer, Jr., eldest son of W. John Carrier of
> Shenandoah Co., VA, m. Mary Mooreall, Feb. 2, 1773 in Shen. Co. "Dunmore
> (Shen.) Co., VA cen. 1775, taken Nov. 1775," showed John Carrier, Jr.,
head,
> had two males under 16 yrs. 1-1-1 Edward Edmund Carrier, b. 1773, d. Oct.
> 1827. 1-1-2 Jonathan Carrier, b.c. 1775, believed to be the name of the
> other male. John Carryer, Jr., and family left VA some time between 1775
and
> 1810. Carriers believed to be his descendants are found in Sullivan Co.,
TN,
> in 1830 cen. and in Sumner Co., TN, in 1850 cen.
>
> (Note from Janet - I copied several more pages from Chapter 2, but will
not
> post at this time. I had seen and copied some pages from this book
several
> years ago, but at that time I had done little research on this family
line.
> >From what research I've done on my recent trip, I'm inclined to believe
that
> Mrs. Armentrout's research is realistic and seems to be well documented.
Any
> comments from the list?)
>
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/mhH.2ACEB/318.1
Message Board Post:
the petrucci family may have come from Campolieto, Campobasso in Molise. Were there any D'allesandro's on that side of the family?
Sorry Jan, that is always the problem - TIME - there are not enough hours in
a day-week-month to do all the research I would like to do!
But again, I do appreciate your thoughtfulness in sharing your SLC results
with us!
Linda Carrier Soloski
Well, I must agree with Tom BUT, there are some limits to that view.
:-)
On Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:56:07 -0500
Jetrbabe2(a)aol.com wrote:
> Too funny Neil... My thoughts exactly... concerning the part about seeing what's her name's naked butt, Tom says "BUt that was my favorite part!" LOL...
>
In a message dated 3/7/2003 10:00:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
CARRIER-D-request(a)rootsweb.com writes:
> It bothers me that there is not good solid
> documentation listed as to exactly where she got her information in some
> cases. It sounds like natural conjecture of known facts (a preponderence
> of
> evidence?) with maybe some family tradition thrown in. While the "threads"
>
> to seem to connect, where is the proof??
Hi Linda,
Yes, I wasn't willing to take her word, either, until I did the research
which seemed to corroborate her statements. She did state in the first
sentence of her book, "The tradition is my Carrier's came straight to and
settled in what is now Shenandoah Co., VA, from England." Sounds like a
family story to me. I just wish I had such a family story! Had I had more
time in Salt Lake, I would have liked to locate each individual citation she
gave. Maybe on some future trip!
Take care,
Janet
In a message dated 3/6/2003 8:01:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,
CARRIER-D-request(a)rootsweb.com writes:
> Thanks, Jan, for the info on the Carrier line, especially Jemima
Ginny, you're very welcome. I'm happy to think others might benefit by my
"vacation" trip to Salt Lake. I looked through the Carrier-Carryer book
again, and didn't find any mention of your Martha. There were a couple of
Marthas shown on the 1850 TN census, but they were teenagers.
Janet Paxton
Jan, a copy of the book can be had at the Sullivan County Library in
Blountville, TN also. I have read it from cover to cover. I believe the
writer had some good information for the time period in which she was
researching and writing. It bothers me that there is not good solid
documentation listed as to exactly where she got her information in some
cases. It sounds like natural conjecture of known facts (a preponderence of
evidence?) with maybe some family tradition thrown in. While the "threads"
to seem to connect, where is the proof?? Maybe I am just being picky, but I
like to see the info in "black and white" for myself. I guess that is just
wishful thinking since most of the documentation probably has disappeared or
was destroyed.
At any rate, I do appreciate all your hard work and your willingness to share
with us what you found. Who knows , maybe "someday - somebody - somewhere"
will put it all together. Until then - keep up the good work and continue
the hunt!
Linda Carrier Soloski
Hi Listers,
I copied several pages from "Carrier-Carryer and Allied Lines," by Georgie
Carrier Early Armentrout. This book was published by Gateway Press, Inc.,
Baltimore, in 1985. It is currently on the shelf at Salt Lake, but has not
been filmed. I'm sure some of you are familiar with it.
The author claims her Carrier family came straight to and settled in what is
now Shenandoah Co., VA, from England. The earliest date she has found of W.
John Carrier is Shen. Co., VA, - a deed dated 1759. She thinks W. John was
likely born circa 1705, and died Nov. 1773 in Shen. Co., VA. She thinks W.
John was married more than once and that Jemima was his second wife. She
believes that W. John married Jemima Nicholas, sister of Richard Nicholas,
and that both families came from England together.
She says W. John had 14 living children when his estate was settled in 1777,
and some of the children stayed in England and did not come to VA with the
rest of the family. She also says that Thomas Carrier, of the 1755 Militia,
originally began the trek for W. John, and Henry, of the 1755 Militia, and
was responsible for them coming to VA.
She cites "Lists of Emigrants from England to America 1718-1759 No. 461-P.
38" - Thomas Carrier - Goodmansfield Parish, London - Service 5 years VA - no
age - signed March 16, 1750 -R-H (p. 20) (Agent) Robert Hutchings of London,
a merchant. She also states that if "her" Henry Carrier came as an
indentured servant, his record has been destroyed.
The author claims that W. John Carrier, from England, settled on three
hundred acres lying on Passage Creek in Powells Fort, Frederick Co., VA, in
1759. W. John paid two hundred pounds for the three hundred acres. This
land was released to him Aug. 7, 1763, Deed Book 8, P. 500-504, County
Clerk's Office, Winchester, VA.
She also says that W. John, according to items listed in the appraisal of his
movable estate in 1773, was a farmer and raised livestock; he was a Christian
man and had some education. "He was also a proud man as he had a looking
glass." Also, he had a lot of household goods for that period of time.
"Shenandoah Co., Woodstock, VA Wills and Settlements - Book A, P. 167." W.
John Carrier's estate was settled Aug. 30, 1777 - amount of estate was 21
lbs., 12 shillings, 11 pence. Widow's part was 7 lbs., 4 shillings, 3 3/4
pence. Each child's part was 1 lb, 6 shillings, 2 3/4 pence. 14 lbs. were
left after the widow's part, and indicates there were 14 children living.
The Inventory and Appraisal List was dated Dec. 1773, Shenandoah Co. (then
Dunmore Co.). John Morrell, William Wood, Joseph Dinton (Denton) were the
appraisers. Thomas Marshall, County Clerk. "This appr. was taken Tuesday,
Nov. 23, 1773. John Morrell was likely the father of John Carryer, Jr.'s
wife Mary."
1 W. John Carrier had ch.:
1-1 John Carryer, Jr. - b.c. 1728 in England
1-2 Henry Carrier - b. 1730 in England
1-3 Thomas Carryer - b. 1732 in England
1-4 Jonathan Carrier
1-5 William Carrier
1-6 Susanna Carrier
1-7 Solomon Carrier - b.c. 1769
Richard Nicholas was appointed guardian of Solomon Carrier - See No. 1-7 rec.
(Note from Janet - the above was excerpted and paraphrased from Chapter 1.)
Chapter 2 shows 1-1 John Carryer, Jr., eldest son of W. John Carrier of
Shenandoah Co., VA, m. Mary Mooreall, Feb. 2, 1773 in Shen. Co. "Dunmore
(Shen.) Co., VA cen. 1775, taken Nov. 1775," showed John Carrier, Jr., head,
had two males under 16 yrs. 1-1-1 Edward Edmund Carrier, b. 1773, d. Oct.
1827. 1-1-2 Jonathan Carrier, b.c. 1775, believed to be the name of the
other male. John Carryer, Jr., and family left VA some time between 1775 and
1810. Carriers believed to be his descendants are found in Sullivan Co., TN,
in 1830 cen. and in Sumner Co., TN, in 1850 cen.
(Note from Janet - I copied several more pages from Chapter 2, but will not
post at this time. I had seen and copied some pages from this book several
years ago, but at that time I had done little research on this family line.
>From what research I've done on my recent trip, I'm inclined to believe that
Mrs. Armentrout's research is realistic and seems to be well documented. Any
comments from the list?)
Too funny Neil... My thoughts exactly... concerning the part about seeing what's her name's naked butt, Tom says "BUt that was my favorite part!" LOL...
Rightfully so though, we should mention (as was mentioned before) that it was primarily done for personal gain. Does anyone know what ever became of the accusers?
Nicole
Yeah I agree about the show. It was bad news. Too much screaming, not enough plot. It was certainly scary to see what's her name's naked butt. Made me wonder though how the parents would not suspect their kids making it all up.
Nicole
11th gr-grandaughter of Martha
Hey Neal
Yes, I think the naked ladys were a little too much should have watched part
2 lol and seen Shirley ( Rebecca Nurse) getting a body exam ,. Actually the
part that I liked was that, It was stated that those who were accused of
witch craft were those that The Putnams and others had odds against and that
it was for personal gain that the people were accused. Then the last part
said the People were cleared in 2001 beccause of the family research being
done and how they were innocent.
Yes there was a bunch of stuff wrong, but a lot was accurate. Prob nudes and
all
lol cuz. we should make one about Tom and Martha.
Proud of Thomas and Martha being my family
Jean
The first part of this posting is from Family Tree Maker, CD503, Virginia
Colonial Records, 1600s-1700s.
Early Virginia Immigrants, 1623-1666, Surnames, M-N
Pg. 233
Morrall, Anne, 1653, by John Barrow, Surry Co.
Morrell, David, 1656, by Capt. Henry Fleete, ------- Co.
Morrell, Tho., 1638, by John Robins, James City Co.
Moriel, Da., 1653, by Oliver Segar, Lancaster Co.
Cavaliers and Pioneers, Patent Book 1, Part II
Pg. 102
JOHN ROBINS, 1200 acs. James Citty Co., 25 Feb. 1638, p. 617. S. W. upon the
woods, beg. at a Marish Island at pease hill point. 50 acs. due for the per.
adv. of his first wife Dorothy, 50 acs. for the per. adv. of 2nd wife Alice &
1100 acs. for the trans. of 22 pers: Antho. Reboore, Marke Clevere, Nich.
Stranger, Richard Bayly, Symon Drew, Tho. Morrell, Nath. Page, Rich. Beedham,
Georg Spice, John Lawrence, Edward Wakins, 1 Negroe, Thomas Wrenn, Richard
Hughes, Patrick Farrell, Thomas Tilsley, James Mitchell, 2 Negroes, Francis
Sparks, David Loyd, John Seberry.
Cavaliers and Pioneers, Patent Book 4
Pg. 332
CAPT. HENRY FLEETE, 550 acs. 11 Sept. 1656, p. 38 (58). Beg. At the miles
end of land of Mr. WmSons. (Williamsons), now called Mr. Hobkins land & adj.
his own land. Trans. Of 11 pers: Darby Howranley, Katherine Cullin, Wm.
Tall, Daniell Morrell, Jno. Bryant, Tho. Hinde, James Ludwell, Tho. Harris,
Joane Wood, Tho. Boane (or Boare), Bridges Lee.
(Note from Janet - obviously the transport of Thomas Morrell as mentioned in
"Early Virginia Immigrants" agrees with the entry in "Cavaliers and Pionee
rs." However, the transport of David/Daniell Morrell as mentioned in "Early
Virginia Immigrants" shows a difference or perhaps a misspelling compared to
"Cavaliers and Pioneers.")
----------------
This last bit comes from Family Tree Maker CD510, Colonial Virginia Source
Records, 1600s-1700s, Virginia Wills and Administrations, 1632-1800, Surnames
C-D.
Pg. 72
CARRIER
Shenandoah
Jno. 1773 a.
Westmoreland
Jno. 1697 w.
In a message dated 3/5/2003 6:43:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ncarrier(a)dreamscape.com writes:
> As Martha said then:
> "...I am wronged. It is a shameful thing that you should mind these folks
> that are out of their wits."
> she would probably say now if she had seen the show.
>
YEAH FOR NEAL - HE PICKED UP ON EXACTLY THE RIGHT WAY TO DESCRIBE THIS SHOW.
THERE WAS SO MUCH "HOLLYWOOD PLASTIC" I EXPECTED WOODY ALLEN TO POP UP AT
ANY TIME...OR MAYBE THAT SHOULD BE WOODY WOODPECKER!
Linda Carrier Soloski
I hate to disagree with you Jean (guess it's the Martha in ME) but I thought the show was total garbage,
I hope they don't rebroadcast it, especially the scene with the naked women tied to the cart..
From the concrete sidewalks in Salem, wedding rings on puritan wives, the imaginary characters and subplots
it was typical Hollywood crap.
They must have rented the Jack Russel Terrier in the one scene from the Fraser show as I don't think that breed
existed back then and it's hard to imagine puritans sharing their meager food with a mutt.
But the show did reinforce one of my opinions of the subject, if the parents had applied a strap to the behinds of those
young accusers (spoiled brats), Martha might have lived.
I suffered thru part one and skipped the second.
As Martha said then:
"...I am wronged. It is a shameful thing that you should mind these folks that are out of their wits."
she would probably say now if she had seen the show.
Your wayward Cuz,
Neal
On Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:35:18 -0700
"Susan Carrier" <scarrier(a)optonline.net> wrote:
> I missed it. Have you heard if it will be rebroadcase?
>
> Thanks Jean!
>
>
> Susan Carrier
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Jhdent(a)aol.com>
>
> > I really enjoyed the SALEM WITCH HUNT I THINK this one was accurate more
> > than others. hope others enjoyed it
> > Yea to Our Martha, she is my idol.
> > Jean
> >
>