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In the discussion during the last few days, I am troubled by the widely-held
assumption that the origin of the Carrico surname must be found among the
Romance language speakers of Southern Europe, particularly, the Portuguese.
Below, I would offer some contravening arguments in favor of a northern,
particularly Anglo, origin instead.
First, consider details of the name of the "first" known North American
Carrico/Carico, Peter Carricoe (do we have proof he was the "immigrant"?).
It seems to me that we have overlooked some obvious clues here that would be
of help.
Let's dissect the name.
1. "Peter" is not a common given name in Southern Europe, but is common
in Northern Europe and in Britain. Are we assuming that the
Spanish/Portuguese/Italian immigrant changed his name from "Pedro/Pietro" to
the English equivalent, "Peter" when he stepped ashore?
2. It seems that we have focused on a Southern European origin partly
because of that terminal vowel sound, "oh", because it is so common there.
Peter's surname with a terminal "e" after the last syllable with an "oh"
sound is not common in Southern Europe, but is found in English names with a
terminal "oh" sound, e.g., Bledsoe, Steptoe, Monroe. Further, consider
other English surnames with that "oh" sound such as: Barlow, Bristowe, etc.
3. How about the double "rr" in the name? Look at some British (I
assume) surnames with this combination of consonants: Barrow, Burrow,
Barrett (or Barrette), Barr, Currier, Harris, etc. Those of us who
struggled to pronounce "burrito" correctly, may tend to associate this
combination of consonants mostly with a southern European language. But why
bother with wrestling with trills and other features of the double "rr" as
it is pronounced in Southern Europe when we have a source of the double "rr"
spelling in Northern Europe? And regarding the pronunciation, haven't we
heard bit of a trill in the speech of native Scots and Irish, e.g.,
Edinburgh, Londonderry? We need look no further than when considering
pronunciations in problems with transcriptions and record keeping.
What about the country of origin? It follows that as we concentrate on
Southern Europe as a source of the surname because of its current
pronunciation, we are obliged to look there for the origin of the immigrant.
But if we relieve ourselves of these assumptions, then we can be free to
look elsewhere. Consider the following argument: Probably in those early
years immigrants to the middle Atlantic coast were from English-speaking
countries, and so the weight of numbers is in favor of the latter for a
source of our first Carricoe. Additionally, a perusal of early given names
in our Carrico/Carico genealogies and names of their estates, e.g.,
"Maidstone," are all English names. Even today, new immigrants tend to use
names formed from the language of the "old country" for at least one
generation.
Therefore, given the above assumptions, we need to apply the fewest
contortions to derive the first known Carricoe from an English-speaking
country rather than from Southern Europe. My main purpose in this discourse
is to encourage researchers to pursue a wider range of possibilities for the
origin of our first Carricoe; it is not my intention to prove that the name
is English or any other derivation because I have no proof to offer...yet.
Jim
My Carrico decendency is through my paternal great grandmother, Susanna C.
Carrico, who was a Washington, D.C. Carrico. The family was catholic.
Kathie
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
The History of Daviess Co., KY gives a bio of John T. Carrico s/o Henry C. &
Nancy Carrico which states he was raised a Catholic but he & wife are both
baptists.
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~boorom/carrico/kybiodaviessco.html#....
I imagine today there are Carrico's of all faiths, not just Catholic. I
recall finding somewhere a suggestion that a Carrico was also a member of
the Mormon's in that faiths early years. With the progression Westward,
often into unsettled territories, many had to settle for whatever church was
the closest or listen to whatever preacher came through.
Just my 2 cents
Linda
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~boorom/carrico/carrico.html
> My experience with "my" CARRICO line is that the Kentucky ones, the
> descendants
> of Peter II, were largely Catholic, but I recall someone mentioning that
> the
> Virginia ones, the descendants of Abel I, were largely Protestant. Is
> this
> true? What other religions occurred among the CARRICOs?
>
> Diana
>
Diana,
We have 67 markers for descendants of two of the four GOFF brothers. The
sole Stephen GOUGH descendant tested 43 markers at DNA Heritage. This was at
my suggestion since this was the best price and the fastest service at the
time. I somewhat regret this now since DNA Heritage does not retain the
sample for future testing. The only other Stephen GOUGH male-line descendant
we've identified has chosen to not participate.
I don't rule out that the four Goff brothers were born into the Catholic
church, but the evidence is ambiguous. John Turton GOFF married Monica
CARRICO. All of the given names of the four GOFF brothers (James, John,
Thomas and Salathiel) are Biblical, but I'm not sure if that favors
Protestant or Catholic. There is virtually no overlap in the given names
between the GOFF and GOUGH families.
I would not be surprised if/when a document is uncovered some day with Peter
CARRICO's origins. I would also not be surprised if it is the DNA evidence
that leads to such a paper trail. I'm enjoying this active CARRICO list and
will do what I can to help. Thanks,
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <DianaGM(a)dgmweb.net>
To: <carrico(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 5:49 AM
Subject: Re: [CARRICO] DNA, religion
> Phil,
>
> I agree that DNA testing is best used to support (or refute) paper
> genealogy,
> because in the end you still need paper documentation. I seriously doubt
> that
> we will ever find paper documentation of Peter CARRICO's origin, but there
> is
> hope of connecting us, genetically, to our Old World origin, and that
> prospect
> is enough to make the effort worthwhile. And certainly, we will be able
> to tell
> how many different CARRICO families there are (we've already proven there
> are at
> least two) and prove who is related to whom.
>
> Can you get your GOFFs and GOUGHs to upgrade to 67 markers? That would
> give you
> a better idea how closely they are related. One would think not too
> closely,
> given that the GOFFs were Protestant and the GOUGHs Catholic, but that
> raises
> and interesting question.
>
> My experience with "my" CARRICO line is that the Kentucky ones, the
> descendants
> of Peter II, were largely Catholic, but I recall someone mentioning that
> the
> Virginia ones, the descendants of Abel I, were largely Protestant. Is
> this
> true? What other religions occurred among the CARRICOs?
>
> Diana
Phil,
I agree that DNA testing is best used to support (or refute) paper genealogy,
because in the end you still need paper documentation. I seriously doubt that
we will ever find paper documentation of Peter CARRICO's origin, but there is
hope of connecting us, genetically, to our Old World origin, and that prospect
is enough to make the effort worthwhile. And certainly, we will be able to tell
how many different CARRICO families there are (we've already proven there are at
least two) and prove who is related to whom.
Can you get your GOFFs and GOUGHs to upgrade to 67 markers? That would give you
a better idea how closely they are related. One would think not too closely,
given that the GOFFs were Protestant and the GOUGHs Catholic, but that raises
and interesting question.
My experience with "my" CARRICO line is that the Kentucky ones, the descendants
of Peter II, were largely Catholic, but I recall someone mentioning that the
Virginia ones, the descendants of Abel I, were largely Protestant. Is this
true? What other religions occurred among the CARRICOs?
Diana
> -----Original Message-----
> From: carrico-bounces(a)rootsweb.com On Behalf Of Phil Goff
> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 12:28 AM
> To: carrico(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>
> Tim,
>
> I hope you are right, but DNA often only points the way to the paper trail.
> In the case of my mainly Protestant Goff family, I found a 42/43 match with
> the Catholic Stephen Gough (d. 1701) family of St. Mary's Co., MD in March
> 2006. However, to this day we still have no idea how the two families are
> connected. In a circuitous way, that is a big driver for my interest in the
> Carrico family at the moment. In other words, I now have a tremendous clue
> about where to search for a connection, but have no idea if the four Goff
> brothers descend from or share a common ancestor with Stephen Gough.
>
> In my view, DNA is the most powerful genealogical tool to come along since
> vital records and name-by-name censuses. As one of the leading proponents of
> its use, I also recognize its limitations. The work Diana is doing is
> cutting edge. I actually found her through the Rootsweb Genealogy-DNA List
> where her posts attracted a lot of rigorous discussion. The more
> participation at 67 markers, the more that will be learned.
>
> I urge a multi-discliplinary approach (historical records, DNA, linguistics)
> to solving the issue of Peter Carrico's origins as I believe this increases
> the odds of success. Thanks,
>
> Phil
Most all of the Carricos from Nebraska were Methodist.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <DianaGM(a)dgmweb.net>
To: <carrico(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 4:49 AM
Subject: Re: [CARRICO] DNA, religion
> Phil,
>
> I agree that DNA testing is best used to support (or refute) paper
> genealogy,
> because in the end you still need paper documentation. I seriously doubt
> that
> we will ever find paper documentation of Peter CARRICO's origin, but there
> is
> hope of connecting us, genetically, to our Old World origin, and that
> prospect
> is enough to make the effort worthwhile. And certainly, we will be able
> to tell
> how many different CARRICO families there are (we've already proven there
> are at
> least two) and prove who is related to whom.
>
> Can you get your GOFFs and GOUGHs to upgrade to 67 markers? That would
> give you
> a better idea how closely they are related. One would think not too
> closely,
> given that the GOFFs were Protestant and the GOUGHs Catholic, but that
> raises
> and interesting question.
>
> My experience with "my" CARRICO line is that the Kentucky ones, the
> descendants
> of Peter II, were largely Catholic, but I recall someone mentioning that
> the
> Virginia ones, the descendants of Abel I, were largely Protestant. Is
> this
> true? What other religions occurred among the CARRICOs?
>
> Diana
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: carrico-bounces(a)rootsweb.com On Behalf Of Phil Goff
>> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 12:28 AM
>> To: carrico(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> I hope you are right, but DNA often only points the way to the paper
>> trail.
>> In the case of my mainly Protestant Goff family, I found a 42/43 match
>> with
>> the Catholic Stephen Gough (d. 1701) family of St. Mary's Co., MD in
>> March
>> 2006. However, to this day we still have no idea how the two families are
>> connected. In a circuitous way, that is a big driver for my interest in
>> the
>> Carrico family at the moment. In other words, I now have a tremendous
>> clue
>> about where to search for a connection, but have no idea if the four Goff
>> brothers descend from or share a common ancestor with Stephen Gough.
>>
>> In my view, DNA is the most powerful genealogical tool to come along
>> since
>> vital records and name-by-name censuses. As one of the leading proponents
>> of
>> its use, I also recognize its limitations. The work Diana is doing is
>> cutting edge. I actually found her through the Rootsweb Genealogy-DNA
>> List
>> where her posts attracted a lot of rigorous discussion. The more
>> participation at 67 markers, the more that will be learned.
>>
>> I urge a multi-discliplinary approach (historical records, DNA,
>> linguistics)
>> to solving the issue of Peter Carrico's origins as I believe this
>> increases
>> the odds of success. Thanks,
>>
>> Phil
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CARRICO-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
Folks, folks. This is all too funny in light of the fact that DNA eventually will solve the issue of Peter's origin, given that known and provable male descendents live in our midst. Let's spend our time working to get these cousins of ours to participate in the Carrico DNA project!
Tim
?Market Street Inn
22 Market Street
Greenleaf Inn
141 State Street
Newburyport, MA 01950
t 978-465-5816
c 978-270-3847
f 978-463-8640
wtcweaver(a)aol.com
www.furnished-rentals.comwww.greenleafinnnewburyport.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Boorom <lboorom(a)fuse.net>
To: carrico(a)rootsweb.com
Sent: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 3:43 pm
Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
ALL of the Carrico's in the 1790 census were listed as Callico or Callicoe
by the census taker. Well, we don't know for certain if it is the actual
census takers copy or one of the 3 copys made that we are actually seeing on
the microfilm available. I can see & have seen where the r's are mistaken
for n, m or even s & the o as some another vowel, but the way a person
writes an l is not easily confused with an r.
When it is written in a document as an "l" one has to think that it was the
way the name was pronounced.
We have to remember that even here in our own country there are different
accents, one brought up in NY will have a different accent than someone
raised in VA. Even here in OH, there seems to be a noticable difference from
those in the north compared to here in southern OH.
However the census taker spelled the name, that may not be the way the
individual or his family spelt it.
AND, I do think there are actual Callico's. Do they hail back to our Peter
Carrico, I can't say.
Linda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <DianaGM(a)dgmweb.net>
To: <carrico(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
> We do have some later cases (not just early ones) where someone known to
> be
> CARRICO turns up CALLICO or CALICO. One is James William CARRICO:
>
> http://dgmweb.net/genealogy/FGS/Car/CarricoJamesWilliam-CatharineGates.shtml
>
> There are other instances, I just don't have them all extracted yet. I
> wouldn't
> be surprised if, by the time I'm done, I find that all the CALICOs and
> CALLICOs
> in the census are really CARICO/CARRICO.
>
> I suspect the problem is caused by enumerators who don't know how to
> handle the
> trilled "r's" (i.e., may not hear them for what they are and/or haven't a
> clue
> how to spell them), but that's just a suspicion. Examples like these
> emphasize
> how very much difference it makes just who is writing the name down.
>
> Diana
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: carrico-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
>> [mailto:carrico-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Phil Goff
>> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 11:03 AM
>> To: carrico(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> In the case of the MD land records, I will have to go through
>> my files to
>> determine if I read the original documents or a
>> transcription. Until I do
>> so, I can't be sure if you idea below applies. However, I
>> think all agree
>> that Peter Carrico's ancestry has not been discovered. As
>> such, I urge the
>> use of all available information to solve this puzzle. I
>> don't want to
>> assume that Cataco, Callaco, etc. came about through poor
>> transcriptions,
>> when it seems just as likely that the verbalization of the
>> surname may have
>> been a contributing factor. Only a thorough analysis across
>> many documents
>> and time (i.e. different clerks) will tell if the
>> pronunciation likely
>> changed over time.
>>
>> Determining the accent (via differing spellings) may help to
>> place Peter
>> Carrico's origin. The RR letter combinationhas distinctive
>> pronunciations in
>> different languages. I have relied on Internet sources to
>> help me with
>> languages other than English:
>>
>> English - we all know this one
>> Portugese - like an "H." I also found the following guide: "Usually
>> thrilled slightly from the throat, like the French 'r' or
>> even lighter. Less
>> commonly pronounced as in the Spanish 'rr', which is thrilled
>> heavily from
>> the tongue."
>> French - uvular (light gutteral) trill
>> Spanish - trilled with the tongue on the roof of the mouth;
>> sounds like a
>> cat purring
>> Italian - even a single R is trilled like in Spanish (like a
>> cat purring),
>> so I believe the RR is the same
>>
>> This is probably a vast oversimplification, but I see three
>> main groups of
>> pronunciation: 1) English 2) Spanish/Italian and 3)
>> Portugese/French, in
>> order of where the sound originates (lips, tongue on roof of
>> mouth, and back
>> of throat). Thanks,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <wtcweaver(a)aol.com>
>> To: <carrico(a)rootsweb.com>
>> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:40 AM
>> Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Phil:
>> > The various spellings I would guess have resulted from
>> differences in
>> > penmanship. When I look through old handwritten documents,
>> I realize how
>> > the Carricoe confusion came about--the 18th century habit
>> of flourishes at
>> > the end of a name. The R's looked often like present day
>> L's and so on. It
>> > would be easy to see how notaries could misspell names over
>> time. I'm
>> > guessing the name has been pronounced in America pretty
>> much as today for
>> > a very long time, as if it rhymes with Jericho.
>> > Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CARRICO-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CARRICO-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to CARRICO-request(a)rootsweb.com
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of
the message
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
ALL of the Carrico's in the 1790 census were listed as Callico or Callicoe
by the census taker. Well, we don't know for certain if it is the actual
census takers copy or one of the 3 copys made that we are actually seeing on
the microfilm available. I can see & have seen where the r's are mistaken
for n, m or even s & the o as some another vowel, but the way a person
writes an l is not easily confused with an r.
When it is written in a document as an "l" one has to think that it was the
way the name was pronounced.
We have to remember that even here in our own country there are different
accents, one brought up in NY will have a different accent than someone
raised in VA. Even here in OH, there seems to be a noticable difference from
those in the north compared to here in southern OH.
However the census taker spelled the name, that may not be the way the
individual or his family spelt it.
AND, I do think there are actual Callico's. Do they hail back to our Peter
Carrico, I can't say.
Linda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diana Gale Matthiesen" <DianaGM(a)dgmweb.net>
To: <carrico(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
> We do have some later cases (not just early ones) where someone known to
> be
> CARRICO turns up CALLICO or CALICO. One is James William CARRICO:
>
> http://dgmweb.net/genealogy/FGS/Car/CarricoJamesWilliam-CatharineGates.shtml
>
> There are other instances, I just don't have them all extracted yet. I
> wouldn't
> be surprised if, by the time I'm done, I find that all the CALICOs and
> CALLICOs
> in the census are really CARICO/CARRICO.
>
> I suspect the problem is caused by enumerators who don't know how to
> handle the
> trilled "r's" (i.e., may not hear them for what they are and/or haven't a
> clue
> how to spell them), but that's just a suspicion. Examples like these
> emphasize
> how very much difference it makes just who is writing the name down.
>
> Diana
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: carrico-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
>> [mailto:carrico-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Phil Goff
>> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 11:03 AM
>> To: carrico(a)rootsweb.com
>> Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> In the case of the MD land records, I will have to go through
>> my files to
>> determine if I read the original documents or a
>> transcription. Until I do
>> so, I can't be sure if you idea below applies. However, I
>> think all agree
>> that Peter Carrico's ancestry has not been discovered. As
>> such, I urge the
>> use of all available information to solve this puzzle. I
>> don't want to
>> assume that Cataco, Callaco, etc. came about through poor
>> transcriptions,
>> when it seems just as likely that the verbalization of the
>> surname may have
>> been a contributing factor. Only a thorough analysis across
>> many documents
>> and time (i.e. different clerks) will tell if the
>> pronunciation likely
>> changed over time.
>>
>> Determining the accent (via differing spellings) may help to
>> place Peter
>> Carrico's origin. The RR letter combinationhas distinctive
>> pronunciations in
>> different languages. I have relied on Internet sources to
>> help me with
>> languages other than English:
>>
>> English - we all know this one
>> Portugese - like an "H." I also found the following guide: "Usually
>> thrilled slightly from the throat, like the French 'r' or
>> even lighter. Less
>> commonly pronounced as in the Spanish 'rr', which is thrilled
>> heavily from
>> the tongue."
>> French - uvular (light gutteral) trill
>> Spanish - trilled with the tongue on the roof of the mouth;
>> sounds like a
>> cat purring
>> Italian - even a single R is trilled like in Spanish (like a
>> cat purring),
>> so I believe the RR is the same
>>
>> This is probably a vast oversimplification, but I see three
>> main groups of
>> pronunciation: 1) English 2) Spanish/Italian and 3)
>> Portugese/French, in
>> order of where the sound originates (lips, tongue on roof of
>> mouth, and back
>> of throat). Thanks,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <wtcweaver(a)aol.com>
>> To: <carrico(a)rootsweb.com>
>> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:40 AM
>> Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Phil:
>> > The various spellings I would guess have resulted from
>> differences in
>> > penmanship. When I look through old handwritten documents,
>> I realize how
>> > the Carricoe confusion came about--the 18th century habit
>> of flourishes at
>> > the end of a name. The R's looked often like present day
>> L's and so on. It
>> > would be easy to see how notaries could misspell names over
>> time. I'm
>> > guessing the name has been pronounced in America pretty
>> much as today for
>> > a very long time, as if it rhymes with Jericho.
>> > Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> CARRICO-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CARRICO-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
We do have some later cases (not just early ones) where someone known to be
CARRICO turns up CALLICO or CALICO. One is James William CARRICO:
http://dgmweb.net/genealogy/FGS/Car/CarricoJamesWilliam-CatharineGates.shtml
There are other instances, I just don't have them all extracted yet. I wouldn't
be surprised if, by the time I'm done, I find that all the CALICOs and CALLICOs
in the census are really CARICO/CARRICO.
I suspect the problem is caused by enumerators who don't know how to handle the
trilled "r's" (i.e., may not hear them for what they are and/or haven't a clue
how to spell them), but that's just a suspicion. Examples like these emphasize
how very much difference it makes just who is writing the name down.
Diana
> -----Original Message-----
> From: carrico-bounces(a)rootsweb.com
> [mailto:carrico-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Phil Goff
> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 11:03 AM
> To: carrico(a)rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>
> Tim,
>
> In the case of the MD land records, I will have to go through
> my files to
> determine if I read the original documents or a
> transcription. Until I do
> so, I can't be sure if you idea below applies. However, I
> think all agree
> that Peter Carrico's ancestry has not been discovered. As
> such, I urge the
> use of all available information to solve this puzzle. I
> don't want to
> assume that Cataco, Callaco, etc. came about through poor
> transcriptions,
> when it seems just as likely that the verbalization of the
> surname may have
> been a contributing factor. Only a thorough analysis across
> many documents
> and time (i.e. different clerks) will tell if the
> pronunciation likely
> changed over time.
>
> Determining the accent (via differing spellings) may help to
> place Peter
> Carrico's origin. The RR letter combinationhas distinctive
> pronunciations in
> different languages. I have relied on Internet sources to
> help me with
> languages other than English:
>
> English - we all know this one
> Portugese - like an "H." I also found the following guide: "Usually
> thrilled slightly from the throat, like the French 'r' or
> even lighter. Less
> commonly pronounced as in the Spanish 'rr', which is thrilled
> heavily from
> the tongue."
> French - uvular (light gutteral) trill
> Spanish - trilled with the tongue on the roof of the mouth;
> sounds like a
> cat purring
> Italian - even a single R is trilled like in Spanish (like a
> cat purring),
> so I believe the RR is the same
>
> This is probably a vast oversimplification, but I see three
> main groups of
> pronunciation: 1) English 2) Spanish/Italian and 3)
> Portugese/French, in
> order of where the sound originates (lips, tongue on roof of
> mouth, and back
> of throat). Thanks,
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <wtcweaver(a)aol.com>
> To: <carrico(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>
>
> >
> > Phil:
> > The various spellings I would guess have resulted from
> differences in
> > penmanship. When I look through old handwritten documents,
> I realize how
> > the Carricoe confusion came about--the 18th century habit
> of flourishes at
> > the end of a name. The R's looked often like present day
> L's and so on. It
> > would be easy to see how notaries could misspell names over
> time. I'm
> > guessing the name has been pronounced in America pretty
> much as today for
> > a very long time, as if it rhymes with Jericho.
> > Tim
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CARRICO-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'
> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
I had never head the term "melungeon" used before until today. I googled it
and came up with several descriptions of melungeon people which range from
people of mixed races to people of Mediterranean ancestry who have settled in
Appalachia and people of Turkish ancestry.
Could you possibly explain your use of the term"melungeon" as it relates to
the Carrico's?
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Sure,
Let me start with my wife descends from the Carrico Line, her Great
Grandmother was Oma Clyde Carrico, her Grandmother was Ida Lorene
Evans, Oma Clyde's daughter, Ida's sister Pearl who is 88 this year
often told the story of the Melungeon and Huguenot ancestry, supposedly
they were dropped off on this continent after a war of words with the
church, they were left here to live or die, whichever happened first.
She often said that they were Portuguese that went to France and then
eventually exiled to what is now Grayson County, Virginia. It was said
they mixed with Powhatan Indians, some say descendants of Pocahontas
and John Rolfe themselves which is considered by many to be the first
mixed marriage in this country.
check out http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~mtnties/definition.html it tells
of the Carrico surname in Virginia.
Hope this Helps,
Gene Hutson
Norfolk, Nebraska
----- Original Message -----
From: <KEagle254(a)aol.com>
To: <carrico(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>I had never head the term "melungeon" used before until today. I googled
>it
> and came up with several descriptions of melungeon people which range from
> people of mixed races to people of Mediterranean ancestry who have settled
> in
> Appalachia and people of Turkish ancestry.
>
> Could you possibly explain your use of the term"melungeon" as it relates
> to
> the Carrico's?
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com.
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CARRICO-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
Tim,
In the case of the MD land records, I will have to go through my files to
determine if I read the original documents or a transcription. Until I do
so, I can't be sure if you idea below applies. However, I think all agree
that Peter Carrico's ancestry has not been discovered. As such, I urge the
use of all available information to solve this puzzle. I don't want to
assume that Cataco, Callaco, etc. came about through poor transcriptions,
when it seems just as likely that the verbalization of the surname may have
been a contributing factor. Only a thorough analysis across many documents
and time (i.e. different clerks) will tell if the pronunciation likely
changed over time.
Determining the accent (via differing spellings) may help to place Peter
Carrico's origin. The RR letter combinationhas distinctive pronunciations in
different languages. I have relied on Internet sources to help me with
languages other than English:
English - we all know this one
Portugese - like an "H." I also found the following guide: "Usually
thrilled slightly from the throat, like the French 'r' or even lighter. Less
commonly pronounced as in the Spanish 'rr', which is thrilled heavily from
the tongue."
French - uvular (light gutteral) trill
Spanish - trilled with the tongue on the roof of the mouth; sounds like a
cat purring
Italian - even a single R is trilled like in Spanish (like a cat purring),
so I believe the RR is the same
This is probably a vast oversimplification, but I see three main groups of
pronunciation: 1) English 2) Spanish/Italian and 3) Portugese/French, in
order of where the sound originates (lips, tongue on roof of mouth, and back
of throat). Thanks,
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: <wtcweaver(a)aol.com>
To: <carrico(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>
> Phil:
> The various spellings I would guess have resulted from differences in
> penmanship. When I look through old handwritten documents, I realize how
> the Carricoe confusion came about--the 18th century habit of flourishes at
> the end of a name. The R's looked often like present day L's and so on. It
> would be easy to see how notaries could misspell names over time. I'm
> guessing the name has been pronounced in America pretty much as today for
> a very long time, as if it rhymes with Jericho.
> Tim
Why on earth would the pronounciation of Careeso argue against being Portuguese??? I cannot believe what I am reading....
---------------------------------
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Tim,
Yes, I've read that the Carrico family originated in Portugal. Iwas trying
to see if the various spellings of Carrico that I encountered told a story
of the accents. My sample was very small and also about 125 years+ after the
founder reached America. I'm not sure if we know the place of origin of
Peter Carrico who arrived in Maryland in the late 1600s.
Given your mailing address, are you perhaps descended from the Massachusetts
Carrico family that was recently discussed on this List? I know Diana is
trying to get DNA participation from the MA family. Thanks,
Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: <wtcweaver(a)aol.com>
To: <carrico(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>
> Phil:
> Let me be of assistance. The Carrico surname is Portuguese. I don't have
> time now to go into the research I have done, but you can take it to the
> bank. The name is spelled Carriço and has been for a thousand years. The
> Portuguese pronounce it CAR EESS O with the last letter, O, being very
> soft, nearly silent.
> Tim Carrico Weaver
>
>
>
>
>
> Market Street Inn
> 22 Market Street
> Greenleaf Inn
> 141 State Street
> Newburyport, MA 01950
> t 978-465-5816
> c 978-270-3847
> f 978-463-8640
> wtcweaver(a)aol.com
> www.furnished-rentals.com
> www.greenleafinnnewburyport.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Goff <philgoff(a)carolina.rr.com>
> To: carrico(a)rootsweb.com
> Sent: Thu, 31 May 2007 8:11 pm
> Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Linda,
>
> I completely understand. The book is The Four Goff Brothers of Western
> Virginia (Morgantown, PA: Masthof Press, 2003) by Roy L. Lockhart and me.
> The key Carrico points from the research for the book are as follows:
>
>> The source for the maiden name of Monica, wife of John Turton Goff, is
>> the
>> Rev. Joseph H. Goff Family Bible Concordance, John Eadie, D.D., LL.D,
>> Cruden's Concordance to the Holy Scriptures (no publisher's name or
>> place,
>> 1869): "His wife was a Kerico. HIs wife was buried one mile below
>> Glenville on the south side of the River." The exact location of her
>> grave
>> and whether she has a tombstone is not known. According to Lowther's
>> History of Ritchie County, Monica Goff died December 27, 1815.
>> Monica/Monacah is well established as the wife of John Turton Goff
>> through
>> his will and her granting pemission for her daughter Hannah to marry.
>
>> In his 1803 will, John Turton Goff names his "Eldest son James C. Goff."
>> In land records in the Maryland State Archives, his name appears as
>> Calies
>> James Goff, James C. Goff, James Callaco Goff, James Cataco Goff and
>> James
>> C. Goffe. In a Petition and Bill filed June 1817 in the case of C.D. Goff
>> v. J.C. Goff et al in the Clarksburg (then Va.) Superior Court of
>> Chancery, he is named as "James Carico Goff" (yes, just one "r" in his
>> middle name).
>
>> James Carrico Goff died July 27, 1837 and was aged 75 years and 6 days,
>> according to his tombstone in Meigs Co., OH.
>
>> (Not from the book) As I recently posted, a descendant of James Carrico
>> Goff participated in the Goff/Gough Surname DNA Study and was found to
>> have the previously determined Goff Y-chromosome haplotype. As such, the
>> evidence is clear that he was a son of John Turton Goff and Monica
>> Carrico.
>
>> (This is not from the book) Although spellings were more more fluid in
>> those days, one can see the difficulty in researching a name that has
>> spellings that crosses soundex codes:
>
> Carrico/Carico = C620
> Calies and Callaco = C420
> Cataco = C320
>
> As I look at these spellings, it makes me wonder if the "rr" had a Spanish
> pronunciation. See
> http://spanish.about.com/library/howto/htpronouncerr.htm.
> Although I can't account for "Calies" with this theory, I can get to
> "Callaco" and "Cataco" more easily with a Spanish rather than English "rr"
> since the Spanish "rr" can sound (like a cat purring) is not found in
> English. As such, those writing the name from what they heard could have
> come up with Callaco or Cataco. This is very different from my experience
> in
> two of my lines, where all variants of a name continue the same basic
> phonetic elements. For example, the Goff, Gough and Goffe spellings appear
> in the genetically-related families of the four Goff brothers and/or
> Stephen
> Gough of St. Mary's. This is easy to see since all of these spellings
> sound
> the same. For a trickier example, consider the Fortineux family, which
> were
> French Huguenots. Their descendants in America and Canada morphed into
> Fortney, Furtney and Fordney. All of these are in the same Soundex code.
> There seems to be something different about Carrico.
>
> There was a very interesting article in the National Genealogical
> Society's
> journal several months ago on tracing changes in surname spellings and
> seeing the influence of the tongues that speak the word, on the spellings.
> If you accumulated the spellings by time and place, I wonder if a linguist
> could weigh in on the accents of the members of the family 300 years ago.
>
> That is really the extent of what the book adds. I'm interested for any
> thoughts on my theory of the Carrico pronunciation. Thanks,
>
> Phil Goff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Linda Boorom" <lboorom(a)fuse.net>
> To: <carrico(a)rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
>
>
>> Phil,
>>
>> Some time ago, Roy told me about your book. I've often contemplated
>> ordering, just to see what Carrico info. it contains which might be
>> clues.
>> Not that I'm not interested, but I've been spending way to much on
>> genealogy
>> lately, so ordering the book will have to wait.
>>
>> So, I hesitate to ask, knowing that you both would like to recover some
>> of
>> your expenses with book sales, but for the sake of some of us wanting to
>> resolve some of inaccuracies, is there anything from your research that
>> you
>> could share with Carrico researchers that might help or lead us to
>> additional information?
>>
>> Linda Boorom
>
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CARRICO-request(a)rootsweb.com
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body
> of
> the message
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> CARRICO-request(a)rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Linda,
I completely understand. The book is The Four Goff Brothers of Western
Virginia (Morgantown, PA: Masthof Press, 2003) by Roy L. Lockhart and me.
The key Carrico points from the research for the book are as follows:
> The source for the maiden name of Monica, wife of John Turton Goff, is the
> Rev. Joseph H. Goff Family Bible Concordance, John Eadie, D.D., LL.D,
> Cruden's Concordance to the Holy Scriptures (no publisher's name or place,
> 1869): "His wife was a Kerico. HIs wife was buried one mile below
> Glenville on the south side of the River." The exact location of her grave
> and whether she has a tombstone is not known. According to Lowther's
> History of Ritchie County, Monica Goff died December 27, 1815.
> Monica/Monacah is well established as the wife of John Turton Goff through
> his will and her granting pemission for her daughter Hannah to marry.
> In his 1803 will, John Turton Goff names his "Eldest son James C. Goff."
> In land records in the Maryland State Archives, his name appears as Calies
> James Goff, James C. Goff, James Callaco Goff, James Cataco Goff and James
> C. Goffe. In a Petition and Bill filed June 1817 in the case of C.D. Goff
> v. J.C. Goff et al in the Clarksburg (then Va.) Superior Court of
> Chancery, he is named as "James Carico Goff" (yes, just one "r" in his
> middle name).
> James Carrico Goff died July 27, 1837 and was aged 75 years and 6 days,
> according to his tombstone in Meigs Co., OH.
> (Not from the book) As I recently posted, a descendant of James Carrico
> Goff participated in the Goff/Gough Surname DNA Study and was found to
> have the previously determined Goff Y-chromosome haplotype. As such, the
> evidence is clear that he was a son of John Turton Goff and Monica
> Carrico.
> (This is not from the book) Although spellings were more more fluid in
> those days, one can see the difficulty in researching a name that has
> spellings that crosses soundex codes:
Carrico/Carico = C620
Calies and Callaco = C420
Cataco = C320
As I look at these spellings, it makes me wonder if the "rr" had a Spanish
pronunciation. See http://spanish.about.com/library/howto/htpronouncerr.htm.
Although I can't account for "Calies" with this theory, I can get to
"Callaco" and "Cataco" more easily with a Spanish rather than English "rr"
since the Spanish "rr" can sound (like a cat purring) is not found in
English. As such, those writing the name from what they heard could have
come up with Callaco or Cataco. This is very different from my experience in
two of my lines, where all variants of a name continue the same basic
phonetic elements. For example, the Goff, Gough and Goffe spellings appear
in the genetically-related families of the four Goff brothers and/or Stephen
Gough of St. Mary's. This is easy to see since all of these spellings sound
the same. For a trickier example, consider the Fortineux family, which were
French Huguenots. Their descendants in America and Canada morphed into
Fortney, Furtney and Fordney. All of these are in the same Soundex code.
There seems to be something different about Carrico.
There was a very interesting article in the National Genealogical Society's
journal several months ago on tracing changes in surname spellings and
seeing the influence of the tongues that speak the word, on the spellings.
If you accumulated the spellings by time and place, I wonder if a linguist
could weigh in on the accents of the members of the family 300 years ago.
That is really the extent of what the book adds. I'm interested for any
thoughts on my theory of the Carrico pronunciation. Thanks,
Phil Goff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda Boorom" <lboorom(a)fuse.net>
To: <carrico(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [CARRICO] Maryland State Archives
> Phil,
>
> Some time ago, Roy told me about your book. I've often contemplated
> ordering, just to see what Carrico info. it contains which might be clues.
> Not that I'm not interested, but I've been spending way to much on
> genealogy
> lately, so ordering the book will have to wait.
>
> So, I hesitate to ask, knowing that you both would like to recover some of
> your expenses with book sales, but for the sake of some of us wanting to
> resolve some of inaccuracies, is there anything from your research that
> you
> could share with Carrico researchers that might help or lead us to
> additional information?
>
> Linda Boorom