This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Surnames: CARPENTER, CARPENTIER, CHARPENTIER, CARPENDER
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/mkH.2ACIB/55.1
Message Board Post:
Dear Robin,
Where were you when we were talking about this in Clearwater, FL last August? You ask the
right questions!
There are 4 samples in process and some 17 others saying they are interested in
submitting. This is not bad since we are just going "public."
You wrote: "The value of the project will increase dramatically the more participants
we have." You are exactly on target. The more samples the better the value of
comparisons.
When people sign up on the web page for the test kits, they fill in the basic information.
There is a notes section which I encourage all to use. Listing the CE CD RIN number or
which branch they come from will really help.
The Group Administrator only has access to this for comparison purposes.
Everyone is given and known as a code number otherwise.
When enough samples are collected we will post using those code numbers.
Those that wish to allow their names to be used will be contacted before we post.
If they are in the CE CD or added later, I encourage them to place the marker codes under
a DNA section for future references.
In addition, people who submit samples can opt for being in a general pool. There they
will be notified if any one else matches (including non-Carpenters), or closely matches
the results. This by E-Mail only.
Sincerely,
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Carpenter" <ANALYTIX(a)valley.net>
To: "John R. Carpenter" <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:04 AM
Subject: DNA Project
Hello John:
Thanks for the clarifications. Big help.
It sounds like there are only a very small number of joiners so far.
(Maybe as few as 4??) Is that right? The value of the project will
increase dramatically the more participants we have. (If my $169 buys
5-or-6 comparisons that's not nearly so valuable as 50-or-60 comparisons for
the same $169.) So it pays to promote participation strongly. Toward that
end, I should think the issue of resolving some historically unclear
relations may be more compelling (to some people) than, e.g., estimating how
may zillions of generations back we can find a common ancestor...an ancestor
who is going remain anonymous in any case.
(Of course, a competing force in this matter is that a substantial number
of researchers have their own settled notion of who's who and what's
what--who may have filled-in some "holes" with facts with assumptions of
their own--and may experience some reluctance about a project that could
dislodge their conviction.)
Anyway, here's an idea/question; would it be useful to ask signers-up to
post their names publicly on the list? This would not help if in fact we
only have 4-or-5 people (for the perceived value reason cited above.) But
if we have a good list, and several new participants each week, perhaps
there could be a bandwagon effect. (On the other hand, we wouldn't want to
drive people away if they do NOT want to post their name.)
Robin
At 03:26 PM 11/3/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Robin,
>
>"It would seem that any two present day Carpenter males would be able to
>establish a genetic "distance" between them."
>
>Correct! If we had a Carpenter descendant from the Rehoboth, MA branch and
>one from the Providence, RI branch compare samples, they should (barring
>adoptions, illegettimates, and such) have a common ancestor. This is the
>current belief. DNA sampling (using the 25 marker test) allows more than a
>90% accuracy rate over 14 generations to the common ancestor.
>
>"Thus, every participant would find a quantifiable "distance" between
>himself and every other participant. From such a matrix of "distances" I
>should think it would become quite clear who belongs where in the master
>tree."
>
>Correct! Boy, I wished I could have said this first! This is assuming that
>all participants have a common male ancestor. Science will confirm, within
>reason, the DNA-Y matches and correlations.
>
>"Finally, does this project offer any possibility for NON-Carpenter
>linkages?"
>
>Yes. You can add your male DNA sample to the common pool for future
>correlations. Using computer matching, if a male "Clark" matches or
closely
>matches your male DNA-Y results - you will be notified. A release form is
>needed to place your results (by code number) into a common pool. See the
>web page below for details.
>
>I appreciate the input!
>
>John R. Carpenter
>La Mesa, CA
>
>http://www.ftdna.com/description.html
>Regarding 12/25 marker DNA- Y tests:
>... tests the Y chromosome for genetic matches between males. Results are
>placed in our Y-DNA database and when 2 people show the same identical or
>near identical results, we will inform both parties if you have both signed
>the FTDNA Release Form. A perfect match of 25 markers means a lesser number
>of generations before a Most Common Recent Ancestor (MRCA) can be
>determined. The customer receives a Certificate & report generally
>describing Y-DNA sequencing and the meaning of probability between matches.
>
>---- Original Message -----
>From: "Robin Carpenter" <ANALYTIX(a)valley.net>
>To: <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>
>Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 2:44 PM
>Subject: DNA
>
>
>>
>> >Hello John:
>> > The DNA project sounds great! But help me to understand something....
>> >
>> > It seems to me there must be more info to be had from this project
>than
>> is being said. It would seem that any two present day Carpenter males
>would
>> be able to establish a genetic "distance" between them. That is, my
>brother
>> and I would prove to be nearly identical (in this DNA sense), while my
>> cousin and I would be just a little less similar, 2nd cousins still less
>> similar, and so on. Thus, every participant would find a quantifiable
>> "distance" between himself and every other participant. From such a
>matrix
>> of "distances" I should think it would become quite clear who belongs
>where
>> in the master tree. I realize there are minor random variations so the
>> inference is imperfect, but wouldn't we expect a pretty clear resolution
>of
>> dead ends??
>> > Take my own case; recall that I have my dead-end Carman Carpenter in
>> Goshen then Minisink NY. Barring some weird historical quirk that we know
>> nothing about (e.g., that he moved there from Virginia the year before he
>> shows up in records, or an illegitimate birth to a Carpenter mother etc),
>> there are essentially three candidates for his father. If the DNA project
>> includes descendants from each of those three, mustn't we end up knowing
>> which line Carman must have been in? (And even if there is some unknown
>> historical quirk, as above, that should become obvious too.)
>> > Finally, does this project offer any possibility for NON-Carpenter
>> linkages? For instance, again with my Carman Carpenter, I've always
>> suspected either his mother or grandparent would be a Carman. That would
>be
>> a very valuable hypothesis to test.
>> > Robin
>> >