Hello John:
Also, just FYI, I was unable to find a
map attachment (or any other attachment).
Robin
At 02:03 PM 12/1/2017, you wrote:
Hello, The following email with one attachment
(map of Plymouth Colony 1620-1691 from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Colony)
was sent to the FTDNA atDNA Rehoboth
Massachusetts project after two requests from
Carpenter Cousins members regarding joining the
said group. I feel this info may be of general
interest to some Carpenter Cousins members. John
R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA USA Carpenter Cousins
Project
http://carpentercousins.com From: John R
Carpenter 2 Sent: Friday, December 01, 2017
10:55 AM To: Kelly Subject: Rehoboth
Massachsetts - Founding Families before 1750
Kelly, I was asked by a couple of our Carpenter
Cousins Y-DNA members, who had taken autosomal
DNA tests (atDNA), if they should join your
Rehoboth Massachusetts atDNA type project. I
told them that they could if they wanted to. And
I also showed them a few problems in your
experimental project. The following is some
comments and observations with some info on an
overlapping area (old Rehoboth) related to the
Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project. In regards to
atDNA you mention that ... There is no guarantee
that there will be any after 200+ years. So this
is really an experiment. It may also be
interesting from a mtDNA and Y-DNA aspect. Again
quite experimental. I find it amusing that your
Rehoboth Massachusetts atDNA project
(
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/rehoboth/about/background)
has now ... A wonderful by-product of this
project is that founding families Y-DNA is
compiled all in one place. - Well maybe partly!
I think you should generally acknowledge that
many of the founding families surnames have
their own Y-DNA surname projects. Secondly, you
also fail to mention the problem of atDNA
detections past 5-6 generations back in time
from the person who took the atDNA test or past
the 7th generation. Something like this should
be mentioned your methodology. Your no guarantee
comment (cited above) is really a bit vague!
Yes, I am aware that under the proper
conditions, atDNA markers can be successfully
tracked farther back a generation or two. But
those are exceptions rather than the general
rule taking multiple and careful triangulated
atDNA tests using a super computer, such as via
GEDMatch, compared to known paper trail
genealogy. You should be aware that Y-DNA does
not have the same problem of diminishing returns
like atDNA does. Especially when triangulated
with documented paper trails that are checked
and cross-checked via multiple genetic genealogy
triangulations. My 1638 immigrant ancestor
settled in the area of present day Rehoboth. He
is William Carpenter-584 (b. abt 1605 England
d. 7 Feb 1658/1659 in Rehoboth). The numberr
after the surname is my database ID number.
Gen. Name-ID
(birth/death) - Approximate Percentage of
atDNA from ... 1 - John R. Carpenter-1 (b.19xx
Germany - Living) - 100% 2 - Richard
Louis Carpenter-2 (b.1931 ND d. 2013 CA) -
50% 3 - Louis Jonathan Carpenter-3 (b.1892
ND d.1979 CA) - 25% 4 - Andrew James
Carpenter-4 (b.1851 WI d.1908 ND) - 12.5% 5 -
Chauncy Carpenter-20634 (b.1818 PA d.1881
WI) - 6.25% 6 - Jedediah Carpenter-14059
(b.1776 NH d.1860 PA) - 3.125% 7 - Samuel
Carpenter-14052 (b.1741 MA d.1810 PA) -
1.5625% 8 - Charles Carpenter-4689 (b.1702 MA
d.1744 MA) - 0.78125% * 9 - Samuel
Carpenter Jr-110 (b.1661 MA d.1736 MA) -
0.390625% 10- Samuel Carpenter-108 (b.1638 MA
d.1682 MA) - 0.1953125% 11- William
Carpenter-584 (b.1605 Eng d. 1658/1659) -
0.0976562% * Past this generation, the
possibility of random atDNA matches increases
substantially. The centimorgan (cm) matches are
more likely to be just be Identical by State
(IBS i.e., by random chance), rather thhan
Identical by Descent (IBD i.e. real genetic
cousinns). In summary, my Rehoboth ancestors,
who only stayed in Rehoboth a few generations
before moving elsewhere in Massachusetts and
else where, now only make up a very tiny amount
of my atDNA cm segments and that is now
indistinguishable from the general back ground
noise or reliable detectability. FYI The
Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Prroject, Group 3 come
from the area covered by the Rehoboth within the
Plymouth Colony. This general area being Early
Rehoboth, also known as Old Rehoboth. That
included all of what is present day Seekonk,
Massachusetts, and East Providence, Rhode
Island, as well as parts of the nearby
communities of Attleboro, North Attleborough,
Swansea and Somerset in Massachusetts, and
Barrington, Bristol, Warren, Pawtucket,
Cumberland, and Woonsocket in Rhode Island.
Group 2 is was from the current area in and
around Cranston (old Pawtuxet), and overlapping
parts of Providence County, Rhode Island today.
See the attached image. Technically your
Rehoboth Massachusetts atDNA project covers the
same area as described for Group 3 and
overlapping a little into Group 2. The Group 2
ancestor William Carpenter-662 (b. abt 1608
England d. 1685 RI) immigrated in 1635,
settled and died in present day Providence
County, RI. The Group 3 ancestor William
Carpenter-584 (b. abt 1605 England d. 7 Feb
1658/1659 in Rehoboth and iss buried in present
day Newman Cemetery, East Providence,
Providence, RI). There is only three (3) DYS
discriminators out of 111 Y-DNA markers to tell
these two groups apart. In other words, they
match 108 of 111 markers or they have a genetic
distance of 3 at 111 markers from their group
means. Group 2 has about 51 members and Group 3
has about 84 for a total of about 135 members
with the genetic profile for Group2/3. This
total is about one third of the Carpenter
Cousins members that includes Y-DNA testing from
multiple DNA testing companies. And they are but
2 of the 108 unique genetic profiles or
fingerprints in the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA
Project. It should be noted that the Carpenter
Cousins Y-DNA Project accepts the surnames of
Carpenter, Zimmerman (old German for Carpenter)
and those who significantly match the Y-DNA
finger profiles or finger prints of organized
sub-groups. The later are often with formal or
informal adoptions involving Carpenters or
Zimmermans. Accepted name variants are also
accepted. The Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project is
one of the better Y-DNA Projects that not only
shows the DYS markers from testing at FTDNA, but
all DNA testing companies our members tested
with. In addition, we are one of the few that
has drop down lineages for our groups showing
the interrelatedness of our members. This shows
that we have done our due diligence with genetic
triangulation using genetic testing (Y-DNA)
matching and comparing paper trail genealogies
back to the most recent common ancestor (MRCA).
This means we not only say, but show, that they
are genetically and genealogically related. And
when the genealogy is incomplete back to the
MRCA, we clearly show that they are genetically
related but not genealogically. The DYS
markers for each member are enumerated by Y-DNA
results tables (4) and sub-grouping on our main
Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA page. The related
lineages are linked to the ID number on Table 1
(
http://carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm#table1)
or can be found via keyword search on the
lineage page. The Group 3 lineages are at:
http://carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm#reho
Best Wishes, John R. Carpenter La Mesa, CA USA
FTDNA # 5734 Carpenter Cousins Project
http://carpentercousins.com Carpenter Cousins
Y-DNA Project
http://www.carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm
Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project lineage page
http://www.carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm
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