I am looking for any information on a Thomas J. Carpenter who was born in
1841 in Chemung County. He died in 1903 in the town of Veteran, Chemung
County, New York. His first wife's name was Helen M. I want to know what
her maiden name was. They had 5 children together before she passed away
after giving birth to my great grandfather Thomas J. Turner. He has the
last name Turner because he was raised by George and Betsy Turner after his
mother passed away. Although he was never legally adopted. The other
children born to this marriage were, Mary Carpenter (MacDougall), George
Carpenter, Amy Carpenter (Vary), and Helen Carpenter (Thalheimer). Thomas
J. Carpenter remarried after Helen died, to a Margaret Swartout and they had
one child named Frank H. Carpenter. I believe that Helen Carpenter
(Thalheimer) was raised by another family also, but I am not positive. If
anyone has any information please send it to me. I am looking for the names
of Thomas J. Carpenter's parents, Helen's maiden name, etc. I hope someone
out there can help me on this quest. I have a copy of Thomas J. Carpenter's
will.
From: CARPENTER-D-request(a)rootsweb.com
Reply-To: CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
To: CARPENTER-D(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: CARPENTER-D Digest V04 #139
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:00:15 -0700
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CARPENTER-D Digest Volume 04 : Issue 139
Today's Topics:
#1 Fw: Carpenter English Lineage Null ["John R Carpenter 2"
<johnrcarpent]
#2 Re: Gene Zubrinsky's most recent C [GeneZub(a)aol.com]
#3 NEW CARPENTER ARTICLES IN NEHGR [GeneZub(a)aol.com]
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X-Message: #1
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:54:48 -0800
From: "John R Carpenter 2" <johnrcarpenter(a)cox.net>
To: <CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>
Cc: <carpenter-D(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <000701c4edf9$6613cdb0$0300a8c0@JOHN>
Subject: Fw: Carpenter English Lineage Nullified
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Subject: Carpenter English Lineage Nullified
Carpenter Family Update
December 2004
Carpenter English Lineage Nullified
In the Carpenters' Encyclopedia of Carpenters (CE CD 2001) introduction, I
wrote the following:
". genealogy or family history works are never completed ... because of
births, deaths, new
material ... This CE CD version 2001 is dedicated to the Carpenter Family
Researchers who
contributed to it, use it, add to it, and correct the errors in it"
(emphasis added). In the
last section was this: "ALL WORKS OF MEN (and women) are imperfect. If you
find an error,
and there is no doubt you will find some, please let me know."
Many of you have taken the challenge and have made corrections and
additions to your lines.
Gene Zubrinsky of Ojai, California, in particular has been forthright in
his effort to correct
the errors to the Carpenter English ancestry he has seen in the CE CD 2001
and elsewhere.
Most of us are not even remotely proficient reading old English wills.
Having experience with
sixteenth- and seventeenth-century handwriting, however, John F. Chandler,
Gene Zubrinsky and
Terry L. Carpenter have been collecting and looking at the wills to glean
any clues that could
help on the Carpenter ancestry. Gene has reviewed the recorded will of Rev.
Richard Carpenter
(b. abt 1468, of Homme, Herefordshire; d. Wiltshire, 1503 [CE CD 2001, RIN
ref. no. 2781]) and
found that it describes each of two beneficiaries, Robert and Peter (no
surnames given), not as
"sonne/sunne" but as "svnt" (i.e., servant). (The difference is hard
to
see when you are
expecting to see sons listed in that part of the will.)
The rest of us, John, Terry, and I, concur with his interpretation. (A PDF
file of the
will-Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 13 Blanyr [PROB 11/13]-may be
purchased online at
www.documentsonline.nationalarchives.gov.uk; it is also available on FHL
film 0,091,903, and a
copy is posted on my web page at:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/c/a/r/John-R-Carpenter/PHOTO/0...
This finding refutes the assertions of earlier researchers that Rev.
Richard Carpenter was the
father of Robert Carpenter of Upton Scudamore and thus invalidates the
English lineage claimed
for the Rehoboth and Providence Carpenters from Rev. Richard Carpenter
backward.
Captain William Carpenter-584 (b. England abt 1605; d. Rehoboth 1658[/9?])
came to America on
the Bevis. It is certain that his father, who accompanied him, was also
named William
Carpenter-98 (b. England abt 1576; d. abt 1638). Extensive reviews of
earlier research, however,
have not found documentation or evidence that Robert Carpenter of
Marden-14708 (b. abt 1545; d.
abt 1607) was the latter William's father, as previously claimed. Thus the
lineage to William
Carpenter-14711 (b. abt 1520; d. abt 1587) and then to Robert Carpenter of
Upton Scudamore-14706
(b. abt 1495; d. abt 1545) is dubious. Even without the discovery of the
aforementioned errors
in the will of Rev. Richard Carpenter, the lineage it nullifies would
therefore still be doubtful.
The ancestry has not been proved as earlier given.
As to the ancestry of the Providence Carpenters, recent findings seem to
point away from Marden
and toward Newton Toney, adjacent to Amesbury (see The New England
Historical and Genealogical
Register 159 [January 2005]:66, 67n).
While this nullification of the Carpenter English ancestry has occurred,
the rightful pieces of
the jig-saw puzzle will hopefully fall in place with more diligent
research. I encourage all
Carpenter researchers to share what they find and to document where the
information came from.
This way their new information can be verified by others.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
______________________________
X-Message: #2
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:47:47 EST
From: GeneZub(a)aol.com
To: CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
Message-ID: <c8.553a739c.2f04c653(a)aol.com>
Subject: Re: Gene Zubrinsky's most recent Carpenter article
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In a message dated 12/29/2004 12:00:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Connie
writes:
<< Is it published yet? Is it in TAG or in NEHGR? >>
Thanks for asking, Connie. Two Carpenter articles will appear in the
January 2005 issue of the _Register_ (NEHGR), but since it probably won't
be
available until February, I was going to wait until, say, mid January to
announce
them and list the highlights. But since you've raised the issue, I might
as
well do it now (see separate posting, this date).
Gene
______________________________
X-Message: #3
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:48:28 EST
From: GeneZub(a)aol.com
To: CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com
Message-ID: <129.534ac7ef.2f04c67c(a)aol.com>
Subject: NEW CARPENTER ARTICLES IN NEHGR
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
NEW CARPENTER ARTICLES
Two articles pertaining both to the Carpenter family of Rehoboth,
Massachusetts, and that of Providence, Rhode Island, will appear in the
January 2005
issue of ­_The New England Historical and Genealogical Register_ (it
might
not be available until February). The highlights of each are listed
below:
"Three John Carpenters: A Chain of Mistaken Identities"
* Identifies John Carpenter of East Greenwich, Rhode Island
(c.1667-1753), as the son of Joseph3 (William2 of Rehoboth) and Margaret
(Sutton)
Carpenter--not of Joseph's brother Abiah3--and presents as much basic data
about
him, his wives, and children (Martha, Mary, Sarah, Diadema, Prudence,
Cornel,
Dinah, and Joseph, who are often misattributed to another John Carpenter,
son
of Oliver4 [Abiah3]) as available records permit
* Corrects the commonly accepted year of Margaret (Sutton)
Carpenter's
death (1676, not 1700)
* Identifies John Carpenter of Norwich, Windham, and Stafford,
Connecticut (c.1694-1766), as the son of Oliver4 Carpenter (Abiah3)--not
of
Benjamin4 and Renew (Weeks) Carpenter--and presents as much basic data
about him,
his wives ([1] Sarah ______ and [2] Martha [Gould] Hibbard), and children
(Sarah, Lois [not Louis], Mehitabel, Huldah, John [b. 30 April 1728],
Sarah
[again], and Elizabeth) as available records permit
* Distinguishes John Carpenter of Swansea (and Rehoboth),
Massachusetts
(1691-c.1754), son of Benjamin4 and Renew (Weeks) Carpenter, from the
above
John Carpenter of Connecticut (the two have been treated as one, their
wives
confused, and their children grouped together)
* Identifies the wives of John Carpenter of Swansea as (1) Sarah
Thurston (1691-c.1721), daughter of John and Hannah (Cary) Thurston, (2)
Sarah
Hillard (1692-1744), daughter of William2 and Deborah (Warren) Hill(i)ard,
and
(3) widow Hannah Martin
* Identifies the children of John Carpenter of Swansea as Hannah
(w/
1st wf), Barnard, John (b. 4 Jan. 1728/9), and Warren (last three w/ 2nd
wf)
and presents as much basic information about them and their mothers as
available records permit
"Abiah3 Carpenter of Warwick, Rhode Island, and His Family: With
Additional
Material Concerning William1 Carpenter of Providence, Rhode Island, and
William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth, Massachusetts"
* Extensively corrects and augments what has appeared in the
secondary
literature about Abiah3 Carpenter, son of William2 and Abigail (Briant)
Carpenter of Rehoboth, and his family
*
Limits Abiah's children to the three supported by the available
evidence--Oliver, Rebecca, and Joseph (the last perhaps not with wife Mary
Redway)--and
explicitly excludes two others mentioned in the secondary literature
(John,
son of Joseph3 and Margaret [Sutton] Carpenter [see previous article],
and
Solomon, son of Samuel3 and Sarah [Redway] Carpenter) Distinguishes
Abiah's
daughter Rebecca from another Rebecca, misidentified as a Carpenter by
birth,
who married four times (to [1] Ephraim Hunt, [2] David Carpenter, [3]
Samuel
Wilson, and [4] Lt. John Wilson) and died at Rehoboth in 1749, in her 85th
year (the latter woman's maiden name was probably Ward) Addresses the
issue of
whether or not William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth and William1 Carpenter of
Providence were first cousins (as is so often said) Presents
irrefutable
evidence invalidating from Rev. Richard Carpenter (d. 1503) backward the
ancient
English and French ancestry often claimed for (1) William1 Carpenter of
Shalbourne, Wherwell, and the Bevis (c.1576-c.1638), father of William2
Carpenter
of Rehoboth, and (2) RichardA Carpenter of Amesbury (bur. there 1625?),
father
of William1 Carpenter of Providence Argues that neither the respective
parents nor wives of William1 of Shalbourne, etc., or RichardA of Amesbury
have
been established; presents evidence pointing away from Robert Carpenter of
Marden, Wiltshire, as the putative father of Richard of Amesbury;
introduces
other evidence pointing toward the latter man's antecedents' being of
Newton
Toney (adjacent to Amesbury) Presents extensive evidence that William1
Carpenter of Providence came to New England as a single man and did not
marry
Elizabeth Arnold until about 1637, probably at Providence; evidence
includes a
court record indicating that their son Joseph2 Carpenter of Warwick, Rhode
Island, and Musketa Cove, Long Island, was born about 1638 (not 1635, when
the
Arnolds left England) Discusses from the perspectives of English common
law
and the statutes of Plymouth Colony and early Bristol County,
Massachusetts,
certain rights and responsibilities acquired by minors of specific ages:
moral
accountability (age 7); "age of discretion" (14); and "legal age" (21
for
both sexes)
Note: Be sure to read the footnotes!
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