Hello Carpenter Cousins,
Happy New Year!
FTDNA has recently upgraded and added newly discovered SNPs (single nucleotide
polymorphisms) pronounced as snips.
While most of these are for Haplogroup R1bs such as the R-M269 (shorthand code) used by
FTDNA, there are some R1a in the new mix also. But currently they do not impact Groups 2
and 3.
When you look at the following link, please remember that FTDNA uses red for estimated
haplogroups. They use green for confirmed SNPs even if just was tested ten years ago or
more and those are not subject to change.
This means current SNPs tested (also in green) under the Big Y program are subject to
change under very specific conditions despite being called terminal or end SNPs. WHne new
data comes forth and that terminal SNP changes, then you will see a change. Again, if you
see a change there, now you will know why.
See our FTDNA X-Site Y-DNA results at:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/carpenter%20cousins%20%20dna/default...
Deep Ancestry is usually thousands and tens of thousands of years ago. But many recent
research and SNP testing has found newer SNPs in time. Some are now estimated within the
genealogical time line.
For example, Group 5 has a confirmed Big Y SNP defined as I-BY193465 ( aka Haplogroup I
confirmed by SNP BY193465). This SNP is roughly the same age as the oldest ancestor of
Group 5 – Niclaus Zimmerman b. abt 1575 in Switzerland. While it is tempting to say they
are one and the same, it would be irresponsible to say such. There is a great range in SNP
estimation and in this case, several hundred years plus or minus.
See:
https://carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm#capl
Deep ancestry via SNPs are estimated in years and are simply mathematical data points with
many estimated variables. The generation and mutation rate for example are estimated and
subject to change.
Deep Ancestry is part of Molecular anthropology. This is a field of anthropology in which
molecular analysis (DNA testing) is used to determine evolutionary links between ancient
and modern human populations, as well as between contemporary species.
Human remains and related primate remains reflect once live individuals but are not
genealogical ancestors as in genealogy. They are not linked by paper documentation to a
line of individuals such as a child to their parents to grandparents. The DNA collected is
simply data points and related to the conditions and material they are found in. If a set
of two or more ancient remains are found, science can estimated genetic relatedness but
they will never know the real names and relationships because they are lost to time.
Some scientists want others to emotionally attach to what they find. They invent names and
theorize stories about the remains found. It is a way of telling a fictional story to gain
peoples interest. Be aware of this.
Generally speaking if one person has taken a Big Y test in each group, they have they same
terminal SNP as everyone else in that group.
The Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project is a surname study. It is not a haplogroup or
geographical study. We focus on Y-Chromosome short term repeats (Y-STRs) with their
numerical values to determine genetic relatedness. We use genealogy and genetic testing
via the genetic genealogy triangulation process as a check re-check process. We show the
Y-DNA markers (ie the Y-STR number values) on our charts and link them to the related
points on the group lineage page.
Our focus is on genealogy and not deep ancestry. This means we provide token information
on SNPs such as at our FTDNA X-site. And provide messages such as this one.
For a genealogical surname study, SNP testing has no real value. Maybe some day because of
changes in research and technology it will impact such, but I am not holding my breath.
Big Y testing is more expensive than Y-DNA testing. Again it has limited value in surname
studies such used at the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project.
For most people, one Big Y test per group will satisfy most interest in deep ancestry
needs. Having two or more per group testing and getting the same results should not be a
surprise!
I belong to the R1a1 Haplogroup study. Below is an information message I received from
them. I provide such as informational and not as a sales pitch. For most people, you do
not need Big Y testing for a surname study like the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project.
IF you are interested and can afford it, then please feel free to partake. But, it you
have read thus far, you are a more educated buyer!
May the New Year be kind to you all!
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA USA
Carpenter Cousins Project - Our main support page!
https://carpentercousins.com
Forwarded message from R1a Group follows.
From: Group Project Administrator
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 9:26 AM
To: john.carpenter(a)one-name.org
Subject: A message from your R1a Group Project Administrator
Happy New Year to project members!
I try not to write too often because I know you get mailfrom FTDNA and from your other
projects (and after all, we all have lives toconduct!) But I have news!
FTDNA has recently (Oct and Nov) expanded their “tree” withhundreds more SNPS resulting in
many updated terminal Haplogroups for ourproject members. I have been workingvery hard at
making the changes necessary so many of you will see changes to your subgroup as well as
new suggestions for further testing should you beinterested. Because FTDNA has
extendedtheir Holiday Sale to Jan 2nd, I thought I should alert you all to this in case
you’d like to order an upgrade now while pieces are lower.
I have been thrilled to see how many of you have order Big Y recently. These results will
help us build the R1a tree even further and I lookforward to all the new results!
If you are focused more on genealogy than the growth of ourtree and your deeper ancestry
origins, please consider ordering more markers(STRs). Remember that the algorithmchanges
with more markers so you may find more matches than you think! Remember that when you
sign in to yourwebpage, you can see your matches by clicking on the MATCHES button
underY-DNA. By clicking on a match, you cansee that person’s email address in case you’d
like to contact them to shareinformation.
General Housekeeping:
*When looking at the project, remember to change the “pagesize” to 5000 to see all the
entire project on a page.
*Please remember to update your own family tree using the “myTree”button at the top of
your webpage. Especially important is your oldest known ancestor in your Yline as
thisappears on our project webpage and will help those looking for genealogical
matchesfind you.
*Likewise, remember you can join any projects that arerelevant to your line (surname,
geographical origin) tho’ some project adminsare very specific in member requirements.
(ALL ADMINS ARE VOLUNTEERS; their skills,time, rules, etc will differ.) Use the
“myProjects”link at the top of your webpage to join other projects (and remember that
ifyou wish the project admins to be able to work with your results, you mustallow them
limited or advanced access!).
*If you have tested at other companies and learned newSNP info about your kit, please let
me know so I can update your SNPs in mydatabase? You can ask FTDNA to update your info as
well. Speaking of my database, while to projectonly has about 5000 members, my
spreadsheet contains more than 13000R1as! I work on this for hours daily sowhile I do get
behind on everything else (!) I do appreciate it if you let meknow if you have an update
or a question.
*Terminal SNPs are fluid! They change as we learn and test further. I tend to be
conservative in the project, butin many cases, I have educated guesses on my spreadsheet
that go beyond whatyou see on the project pages. Feel freeto contact me if you’d like
guidance and I will let you know if I have suggestionsbeyond what you see on the pages.
But, asnoted above, I do get behind on correspondence, so just keep asking if you
don’thear back within a few days?
*You may want to upload your info to
GEDmatch.com. This is voluntary but may be public
andavailable to law enforcement so thedecision is yours. Some members haveopted to
include their GEDmatch numbers in the name field of their webpage sothat others can locate
them more easily. Again, your choice.
Thanks to you all for sticking with the project! Every kit’s results are valuable and
help uslearn!
Wishing a very Happy New Year to you all!
Cyndi in Baltimore
Volunteer admin for the R1a and all subclades project
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