Thank you John for that explanation of the tests. It was very well done.
Larry
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 10:42 AM <carpenter-request(a)rootsweb.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Haplogroups, haplotypes and SNP testing (John R. Carpenter)
2.
FTDNA.com - 2018 Thanksgiving Sale (John R. Carpenter)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 08:30:10 -0800
From: "John R. Carpenter" <jrcrin001(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [CARPENTER] Haplogroups, haplotypes and SNP testing
To: "Rootsweb Carpenter" <CARPENTER(a)rootsweb.com>,
<Carpentercousins(a)yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <BAFDB7FC44074289816564CFE0D33BFA@JohnCarpenter>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hello Cousins,
Within the last few days I had an interesting email from a person who
claimed to have Haplogroup R-Z282 but strangely claimed no knowledge of his
Carpenter ancestry.
I cite below most of my two responses to him.
Spoiler Alert - The second part reveals the twist.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA USA
Carpenter Cousins Project - Our main support page!
https://carpentercousins.com
1)
If you have Haplogroup R-Z282 then you have taken a Y-DNA test. Only
those who have had such a Y-DNA test will have an estimated SNP and only
those who explore further can refine their defining SNP via a specific
genetic study or individual SNP testing.
If you have Y-DNA tested, I encourage you to participate (i.e. join) the
Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project. It does not matter with whom you took your
Y-DNA test with.
Genealogy starts with you. Then you add your parents names and the rest of
your immediate family. You work from the known towards the unknown,
documenting what you find in a clear and consistent manner. Many people
can document their lines to and some beyond their immigrant ancestors. Have
you started this process?
Haplogroups are deep ancestry and reflect the time before most
genealogical studies. Haplogroups are measured in thousands and tens of
thousands of years and are further sub-divided into haplotypes. They are a
study of human genetics through various DNA data points (from human
remains) collated with anthropologic data.
Genealogy is the study of your family connecting individuals via
documentation back into your ancestry. By adding genetic testing to the
mix, we get genetic genealogy that focuses on breaking down road blocks and
strengthening our family connections.
The first (Haplogroups) is non-personal, general humankind research and
the later (Genealogy) is very personal and focused on family.
Haplogroups and their defining SNPs can be estimated fairly accurately.
But not their detailed haplotypes. At FTNA they use a color coded system to
define whether the SNP is estimated (red) or derived (positive with a green
color). One major problem is when did the SNP be tested? If you had a SNP
test say ten years ago, that was before the Big Y SNP testing. So, while
your SNP is green it is an older tested SNP. This causes great confusion
for those who do not understand SNP testing.
You mentioned R-Z282.
Haplogroup R with haplotype R1a1a1b1a, is defined by Single Nucleotide
Polymorphisms that are called SNPs (pronounced snips). One of its primary
SNPs is Z282 that must be confirmed or found by SNP testing. Many DNA
companies use a shortcut code instead of the longhand. For example: R-Z282
is Haplogroup R with its primary defined SNP Z282.
The Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project is a surname project in which Group 2
and Group 3 play a significant part. Two members of each Group participated
in the Big Y-500 testing through FTDNA. They took the Big Y SNP testing
for everyone else. EVERYONE in Group 2 and Group 3 are reflective and have
the EXACT same Haplotype because the have a common Carpenter ancestor some
where in the past. This is over and above any previous or older SNP
testing.
Currently, the defining SNP for Group 2 and Group 3 is part of Haplotype
Ria1a1b1a3c~? that is defined by SNP YP6281 is the Group 2/3 haplotype.
The short hand code is R-YP6281. The longhand code is from the ISOGG 2018
Y-DNA Tree – R. See:
https://isogg.org/tree/
Please see Groups 2 & 3 Haplogroup coding example at:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/carpenter%20cousins%20%20dna/default...
To get a general overview how my real deep ancestry can be shown, please
see:
https://carpentercousins.com/RealDeepAncestry.pdf
For general information of DNA tests and testing, please see section A) of
our supplemental page at:
https://carpentercousins.com/supplemental.pdf
Once you have looked over this material, no doubt you will have more
questions. Feel free to ask them.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA USA
Carpenter Cousins Project - Our main support page!
https://carpentercousins.com
2)
His next email was that it was his father who had tested at 23andMe and
assigned the Haplogroup R-Z282. A large portion of my response follows ...
The Company 23andMe uses the atDNA test with a twist. They do a basic
older style Y-SNP test. Remember my comment about older SNP tests that are
not as complete as the current SNP tests?
Another way of looking at it is comparing the various SNPs to a bag of
beans. 23andMe never looks at any locations in the bag of beans other than
the ones to assign a basic haplogroup. Family Tree DNA reads every bean in
the bag of beans. One is older technology and the other newer. Different
technology from different times and they provide different results.
They do the same thing with the mtDNA Haplogroups.
23andMe is not focused on surnames per se, but only on general
relationships along with medical potentials.
A Y-DNA test is focused on Short Tatum Repeats or STR markers found in the
male Y-DNA. Those STR markers get an assigned value when tested. The
number of markers tested (12-111 at FTDNA) and their values become a
genetic fingerprint or profile to compare to other genetic fingerprints or
profiles.
Surnames are very important in Y-DNA testing because you can link
genealogical lineages to similar genetic fingerprints or profiles.
It is like the difference between rifles and shotguns. Traditionally,
shotguns have short range and wide spread of multiple shot (pellets) where
has the rifle has longer range and a single shot (bullet).
Using an inverse analogy, SNP testing is like a shotgun with longer
distance in time and wide spread. In essence not tightly focused. The rifle
or STR testing is more accurate in the shorter distance of time because it
is focused on one STR marker at a time.
Continuing to use that inverse analogy, 23and Me uses a shotgun with
larger but fewer pellets to find SNPs. FTDNA uses a shotgun with birdshot
which has much smaller and many pellets for their SNP testing. Same basic
process to hunt for SNPs, but FTDNA uses more advanced technology to find
more SNPs.
...
PS In conclusion, SNPs are not Y-DNA STR markers. The STRs are needed in
genetic genealogy where as SNPs are secondary. JRC
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 08:42:33 -0800
From: "John R. Carpenter" <jrcrin001(a)gmail.com>
Subject: [CARPENTER]
FTDNA.com - 2018 Thanksgiving Sale
To: "Rootsweb Carpenter" <CARPENTER(a)rootsweb.com>,
<Carpentercousins(a)yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <3DDF03AE7517497082EB349DBB7CFC44@JohnCarpenter>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Cousins,
This just in ...
The
FTDNA.com current sale prices are in effect until closing time on 22
Nov 2018.
Single Tests
Family Finder (FF) $49
mt/mtPlus to FMS $109
mtFull Sequence $139
Y-37 $99 <------------------- Wow!
Y-67 $179
Y-111 $219
Test Upgrades
Y-12 to 37 $69
Y-25 to 37 $35
Y-37 to 67 $69
Y-37 to 111 $148
Y-67 to 111 $89
Big Y-500 $499
Y-12 to Big Y-500 $489
Y-25 to Big Y-500 $489
Y-37 to Big Y-500 $459
Y-67 to Big Y-500 $399
Y-111 to Big Y-500 $349
Bundles are an additional $5 off
------------------------------
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