Hello Cousins,
Within the last few days I had an interesting email from a person who claimed to have
Haplogroup R-Z282 but strangely claimed no knowledge of his Carpenter ancestry.
I cite below most of my two responses to him.
Spoiler Alert - The second part reveals the twist.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA USA
Carpenter Cousins Project - Our main support page!
https://carpentercousins.com
1)
If you have Haplogroup R-Z282 then you have taken a Y-DNA test. Only those who have had
such a Y-DNA test will have an estimated SNP and only those who explore further can refine
their defining SNP via a specific genetic study or individual SNP testing.
If you have Y-DNA tested, I encourage you to participate (i.e. join) the Carpenter Cousins
Y-DNA Project. It does not matter with whom you took your Y-DNA test with.
Genealogy starts with you. Then you add your parents names and the rest of your immediate
family. You work from the known towards the unknown, documenting what you find in a clear
and consistent manner. Many people can document their lines to and some beyond their
immigrant ancestors. Have you started this process?
Haplogroups are deep ancestry and reflect the time before most genealogical studies.
Haplogroups are measured in thousands and tens of thousands of years and are further
sub-divided into haplotypes. They are a study of human genetics through various DNA data
points (from human remains) collated with anthropologic data.
Genealogy is the study of your family connecting individuals via documentation back into
your ancestry. By adding genetic testing to the mix, we get genetic genealogy that focuses
on breaking down road blocks and strengthening our family connections.
The first (Haplogroups) is non-personal, general humankind research and the later
(Genealogy) is very personal and focused on family.
Haplogroups and their defining SNPs can be estimated fairly accurately. But not their
detailed haplotypes. At FTNA they use a color coded system to define whether the SNP is
estimated (red) or derived (positive with a green color). One major problem is when did
the SNP be tested? If you had a SNP test say ten years ago, that was before the Big Y SNP
testing. So, while your SNP is green it is an older tested SNP. This causes great
confusion for those who do not understand SNP testing.
You mentioned R-Z282.
Haplogroup R with haplotype R1a1a1b1a, is defined by Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms that
are called SNPs (pronounced snips). One of its primary SNPs is Z282 that must be confirmed
or found by SNP testing. Many DNA companies use a shortcut code instead of the longhand.
For example: R-Z282 is Haplogroup R with its primary defined SNP Z282.
The Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project is a surname project in which Group 2 and Group 3 play
a significant part. Two members of each Group participated in the Big Y-500 testing
through FTDNA. They took the Big Y SNP testing for everyone else. EVERYONE in Group 2
and Group 3 are reflective and have the EXACT same Haplotype because the have a common
Carpenter ancestor some where in the past. This is over and above any previous or older
SNP testing.
Currently, the defining SNP for Group 2 and Group 3 is part of Haplotype Ria1a1b1a3c~?
that is defined by SNP YP6281 is the Group 2/3 haplotype. The short hand code is
R-YP6281. The longhand code is from the ISOGG 2018 Y-DNA Tree – R. See:
https://isogg.org/tree/
Please see Groups 2 & 3 Haplogroup coding example at:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/carpenter%20cousins%20%20dna/default...
To get a general overview how my real deep ancestry can be shown, please see:
https://carpentercousins.com/RealDeepAncestry.pdf
For general information of DNA tests and testing, please see section A) of our
supplemental page at:
https://carpentercousins.com/supplemental.pdf
Once you have looked over this material, no doubt you will have more questions. Feel free
to ask them.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA USA
Carpenter Cousins Project - Our main support page!
https://carpentercousins.com
2)
His next email was that it was his father who had tested at 23andMe and assigned the
Haplogroup R-Z282. A large portion of my response follows ...
The Company 23andMe uses the atDNA test with a twist. They do a basic older style Y-SNP
test. Remember my comment about older SNP tests that are not as complete as the current
SNP tests?
Another way of looking at it is comparing the various SNPs to a bag of beans. 23andMe
never looks at any locations in the bag of beans other than the ones to assign a basic
haplogroup. Family Tree DNA reads every bean in the bag of beans. One is older
technology and the other newer. Different technology from different times and they provide
different results.
They do the same thing with the mtDNA Haplogroups.
23andMe is not focused on surnames per se, but only on general relationships along with
medical potentials.
A Y-DNA test is focused on Short Tatum Repeats or STR markers found in the male Y-DNA.
Those STR markers get an assigned value when tested. The number of markers tested (12-111
at FTDNA) and their values become a genetic fingerprint or profile to compare to other
genetic fingerprints or profiles.
Surnames are very important in Y-DNA testing because you can link genealogical lineages to
similar genetic fingerprints or profiles.
It is like the difference between rifles and shotguns. Traditionally, shotguns have short
range and wide spread of multiple shot (pellets) where has the rifle has longer range and
a single shot (bullet).
Using an inverse analogy, SNP testing is like a shotgun with longer distance in time and
wide spread. In essence not tightly focused. The rifle or STR testing is more accurate in
the shorter distance of time because it is focused on one STR marker at a time.
Continuing to use that inverse analogy, 23and Me uses a shotgun with larger but fewer
pellets to find SNPs. FTDNA uses a shotgun with birdshot which has much smaller and many
pellets for their SNP testing. Same basic process to hunt for SNPs, but FTDNA uses more
advanced technology to find more SNPs.
...
PS In conclusion, SNPs are not Y-DNA STR markers. The STRs are needed in genetic
genealogy where as SNPs are secondary. JRC