Robin,
I agree that the Carpenter Memorial book of 1898 aka the ABC book did have a
decency to mix up certain families. He was a compiler and took most material
sent to him as is. It purports to document the ancestors and descendants of
William Carpenter (b. abt 1605 England) who immigrated in 1638 and settled
in Rehoboth, Bristol County, MA. It is available on line at Google Books.
For those unfamiliar with it, here is the citation I use.
BOOK: GENEALOGY: Amos B. Carpenter, A GENEALOGICAL HISTORY OF THE REHOBOTH
BRANCH OF THE CARPENTER FAMILY IN AMERICA. Also known as the CARPENTER
MEMORIAL. Published 1898 By: Press of Carpenter & Morehouse, Amherst, MA.
In general, the complete 909 page ABC 1898 Carpenter Memorial was remarkable
for its day. And many people miss the 30 or so update or correction pages
starting on page 833 and the few extra corrections on page 906. It also has
an extensive Carpenter name index, a associated name index and a place index
where Carpenters lived index. The later was very helpful before all the data
in the book was compiled into a genealogical database.
But the 1898 Book was printed 120 years ago and cited almost no sources.
Its usefulness today is limited because of all the errors found, the
corrections, updates and technology.
Today the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project cites the descendants of William
Carpenter-584 as Group 3. The Carpenter Cousins Project (genealogical
support) has 76,468 descendants on its database. Far more than the
Carpenter Memorial had!
Now on toward Hezekiah Carpenter-12823. Not much is known about him, maybe
because he is a composite person. No will found. Only two sons listed in
the Carpenter Memorial on page 86.
The other Joseph Carpenter-164823, son of HC-12823 that is cited in the
Carpenter Memorial has the following notes.
NOTES:
Number 322 in the Carpenter Memorial. Page 86
Family on page 159 (#144)
He moved from Hopewell to Bucks county, PA and after the death of his
father,
to North Carolina in 1775 and located in Irvon: afterwards to Ruthford (now
Cleveland county). They were both buried at Knob Creek, Cleveland county,
NC.
-------------
The last paragraph above is likely correct for the Group 5 Joseph Carpenter.
NOTES of JC-164823:
A descendant of Joseph Carpenter-13138 was Y-DNA tested via the Carpenter
Cousins Y-DNA Project and found to match genetically with Group 5, a
Zimmerman line for Switzerland. And not Group 3 of the Rehoboth, MA line.
That Joseph has been removed as a son of Hezekiah Carpenter-12823. ID
(RINs) numbers after the surname reflect assigned numbers in the main
Carpenter Cousins database.
There had been a concern that the Joseph in the CM and the genealogical
descendants assigned were done in error. This has been confirmed and this is
the reason for this note. May 2015 JRC
<end notes>
Even his only brother, as listed in the Carpenter Memorial, Samuel
Carpenter-13137 is likely from the Zimmerman/Carpenter line from Group 5.
His notes follow.
NOTES of SC-13137:
Number 321 in the Carpenter Memorial. Page 86
Family on page 159 (#143)
Samuel went to North Carolina about 1774 and from there to Barron county, KY
in 1800 where he died in 1811.
A deed is recorded at Cleveland, NC dated 8 Oct 1811 from L___ Short and
Catherine Carpenter, executors of the estate of Samuel Carpenter, deceased
of
the county of Barron, State of Kentucky, to Joseph Carpenter for 500 acres
of
land.
Hunterdon county until 1838 when Hopewell became part of Mercer county.
NOTE: Read brother's notes!
Samuel moved to Barren County, Kentucky where he became quite prominent
politically and economically. Some of his descendants traveled to central
Missouri with so many other Carpenters and family members. Per Robert C.
Carpenter.
<end Notes>
Indeed, this family is an excellent example of what was once claimed as
truth, but revealed as not. It is a sorta/kinda like the humongous internet
genealogies on the internet today which has been copying each other for the
last few decades without any documentation of where the data came from.
People who get into real genealogy eventually learn that genealogy without
documentation is pretty much worthless.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA USA
Carpenter Cousins Project - Our main support page!
https://carpentercousins.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Robin C
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 1:51 PM
To: carpenter(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: [CARPENTER] Re: Who is the father of Joseph Carpenter who m. 23 Nov
1785 NC Susanna Eakers
Hello John:
If the Joseph Carpenter cited as a son of Hezekiah in ABC's Carpenter
Memorial (p.86) was in fact NOT a son of Hezekiah, that leaves an
open question as to whether there was some OTHER Joseph who was a son
of Hezekiah. Suppose, for instance that ABC found (perhaps in a
will) there was a Joseph Carpenter who was son of Hezekiah, and
assumed that Joseph (Zimmerman) was that son.
This is the kind of misconstruction that ABC was prone to do. It
doesn't really matter in the case of MJoyce research, in that there
is genetic evidence of the Zimmerman lineage. But I'm supposing it
leaves open some OTHER Joseph-son-of-Hezekiah line. Maybe you know
whether Hezekiah left a will.
Robin
At 10:25 AM 11/12/2018, you wrote:
MJoyce,
Background:
A descendant of this Joseph Carpenter-13138 (b. 2 Jan 1753 PA - d. 20 Jan
1839 NC) was Y-DNA tested via the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project and found
to match genetically with Group 5, a Zimmerman line for Switzerland. And
not Group 3 of the Rehoboth, MA line as cited in the Carpenter Memorial
(CM). This Joseph has been removed as a son of Hezekiah Carpenter-12823
from the CM. ID (RINs) numbers after the surname reflect assigned numbers
in the main Carpenter Cousins database.
There had been a concern that the Joseph in the CM and the genealogical
descendants assigned were done in error. This has been confirmed and this
is the reason for this note. May 2015 JRC
The following is the information cited in the CM and left for reference.
The second paragraph may reflect the correct Joseph.
Number 322 in the Carpenter Memorial. Page 86
Family on page 159 (#144)
He moved from Hopewell to Bucks county, PA and after the death of his
father,
to North Carolina in 1775 and located in Irvon: afterwards to Ruthford (now
Cleveland county). They were both buried at Knob Creek, Cleveland county,
NC.
Yes, the above information does not list a father. We believe it is a
Zimmerman who married a Margaret who later married Gacklin. Her notes
include the following:
The following supplied by Robert C. Carpenter.
WILL:
Dated 21 Feb 1798. "Margaret Gacklin" of Elizabeth Township, Lancaster
County, PA wrote her will in which she devised to "my three children . . .
Sons Joseph Zimmerman & Samuel Zimmerman and Daughter Salome Stucky". She
also mentioned that son in law John Stucky was executor.
NAME:
Maiden name unknown. Married a Zimmermann (His first name unknown) then
later a Caquelin (variously spelled) including Gacklin.
The Caquelin family resided in Alsace among the Zimmermans and other Swiss
Amish, who had moved there. The surname is variously spelled, may have a
French origin, but in the parish records I perused they appeared to speak
German and attended German Protestant churches. Quite a number of the
surname moved to America. Dietrich arrived in 1736 on the Princess Augusta
with the Deppens, Ruchtis, and other Swiss who had lived in Alsace.
MARRIAGE:
About 1872 to Dietrich (Didie) Caquelin (Gockley)
- Important -
There is no way that Jacob Zimmerman-112652 married this Margaret, who
later married Dietrich Caquelin. Jacob died in North Carolina in 1807;
Margaret Caquelin died in Pennsylvania 1798. There was another Zimmerman
man who married Margaret, who later married the Caquelin. So far we have
not been able to document his given name. Robert C. Carpenter
In summary, we know the Joseph Carpenter was a Zimmerman (Group 5 genetics)
whose mother was a Margaret. But we do not know the name of his biological
father.
I am sending more detail to you separately and off list.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA USA
Carpenter Cousins Project - Our main support page!
https://carpentercousins.com
<SNIP>