Alonzo is an Italian and Spanish masculine name and a variant of Alfonso. Both the
Italians and the Spanish adopted the name from the Germanic Visigoth tribe who occupied
Italy and Spain during certain periods of history. In fact, it was the Visigoths who
successfully sacked Rome in 410 A.D. and shortly thereafter set up camp in Spain and
Portugal. This is how the ancient Italians, Spanish and Portuguese became exposed to names
of Germanic origin. Alfonzo is derivative of the Germanic “adal” meaning “noble” and
“funs” meaning “ready”. Adding literary capital to Alonzo, Alonso Quijano is the real name
of Miguel de Cervantes’ famous character “Don Quixote” written in the early 1600s. Did
some parents run out of family names and chose Alonzo? Or maybe Mom was reading the book
when the baby was born. Carl Carpenter
On Friday, May 29, 2015 2:01 AM, "carpenter-request(a)rootsweb.com"
<carpenter-request(a)rootsweb.com> wrote:
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Descendants of William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth
(John R Carpenter)
2. Re: Descendants of William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth (Robin C)
3. Re: Descendants of William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth
(John R Carpenter)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 09:05:12 -0700
From: "John R Carpenter" <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>
Subject: Re: [CARPENTER] Descendants of William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth
To: "Dennis Carpenter" <d.carpenter(a)rocketmail.com>, "Carl
Carpenter"
<mrbbshop(a)yahoo.com>, "Carpenter List"
<carpenter-l(a)rootsweb.com>,
<carpenter(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <E70FD5839C6C422C815E4686DBA65B63@JohnCarpenter>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original
Carl, Dennis,
Alonzo Curtis was likely a popular name named for someone once famous. Who
was that person? I do not know. But it sure does pop up a lot!
In the situation for Dennis, his Alonzo Curtis Carpenter had some good
documentation and dates. See A) below. His line is represented by Group 2 of
the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project.
In the situation of Carl, his Arthur Wellington (AW) Carpenter-97481 was
confused with Arthur M. (AM) Carpenter-176848 who both supposedly married a
Alice Cora Wade and some children have been intermingled. The primary
reason for confusion is that whoever entered the data electronically wrote
AW for AM and vice versa. Until you look at the actual documents, it was an
easy confusion. But the error has even gone to Find a Grave and other
postings.
Back in 2006, the line for Carl (as he mentioned) was proposed as ...
Elisha Carpenter, b. 14 Jun 1744. m. Mercy Bacon 1 Apr 1773.
Amos Carpenter, b/c. 30 Apr 1803, Cranston, RI. d. 3 Nov 1846, Crockett
Creek, Stuben, IN. m. Phebe.
Alonzo Curtis Carpenter, b. March 1819/1820 in Mexico, Oswego, New York. m.
Charity C. Anderson in 1845. Also m. Alice Taber (or Tabor). d. 1915/1916
in South Dakota.
Arthur Wellington Carpenter-97481
The Elisha Carpenter-20001 ancestor line is William Carpenter-662 and
Elizabeth Arnold-663 represented by Group 2 of the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA
Project.
Y-DNA testing however indicates his line as Group 3 of the Carpenter Cousins
Y-DNA Project or descendants of William Carpenter-584 and Abigail
Briant-659.
His ancestor Arthur Wellington Carpenter-97481 has parents on his marriage
record as Alonzo Carpenter and Charity Carpenter. See C) below. Which
Alonzo and Charity is the question! At this time it is believed that Alonzo
Curtis Carpenter-48405 and Charity C. Anderson-97479 is the best option.
A brief reminder ... Groups 2 & 3 are 24/25 marker matches in the Y-DNA
testing. They are far more than first cousins as further Y-DNA testing has
indicated. See the notes & comments for Group 2 & 3 on the Carpenter Cousins
Y-DNA Project page.
http://carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm#toc006 or see
B) below for the basics.
Genealogy is helped by genetic testing. The combination is genetic genealogy
which is far more accurate than the traditional methods of the past.
John R. Carpenter
Carpenter Cousins Project
http://carpentercousins.com
A)
DEATH:
Name: Alonza C. Carpenter
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 21 Apr 1914
Burial Place:
Death Date: 18 Apr 1914
Death Place: Polk Twp., Bremer, Iowa
Age: 68
Birth Date: 07 Oct 1845
Birthplace: Ohio
Occupation: Retired Farmer
Race:
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name: Daniel Carpenter
Father's Birthplace: Ohio
Mother's Name: Melvina Summerlin
Mother's Birthplace:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B86643-8
System Origin: Iowa-EASy
GS Film number: 1577927
Reference ID: p 256 n 118
Citing this Record:
"Iowa, Deaths and Burials, 1850-1990," index, FamilySearch
(
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XVH5-HZV : accessed 10 Dec 2013),
Alonza C. Carpenter, 18 Apr 1914.
GRAVE:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=52954862
Alonzo Curtis Carpenter
Birth: Oct. 7, 1845
Attica
Seneca County
Ohio, USA
Death: Apr. 18, 1914
Horton
Bremer County
Iowa, USA
Family links:
Spouses:
Martha Swartz Carpenter (1844 - 1884)*
Rosette Lefler Swarts Carpenter (1856 - 1918)*
Children:
Clara Estella Carpenter Ede (1874 - 1934) *
Reed L Carpenter (1875 - 1964) *
Frank L Carpenter (1878 - 1970) *
Earl H Carpenter (1880 - 1973) *
Ethel Carpenter Robinson (1889 - 1908) *
Floyd Cyrus Carpenter (1900 - 1902) *
* Reverse Relationship
Burial:
Horton Cemetery
Horton
Bremer County
Iowa, USA
Created by: Connie T
Record added: May 28, 2010
Find A Grave Memorial# 52954862
B)
Based on this now-confirmed discrepancy, along with the originally
discovered difference at DYS464d, and the additional difference at DYS413a,
we can state with 95% confidence that the most recent common ancestor of the
two groups was more than 2 generations before the immigrants and less than
about 20. Therefore, the DNA testing has very nearly ruled out the
often-repeated claim that the Williams were first cousins. The most likely
estimate is about 7 generations, but that is a very rough estimate, and the
95% confidence interval is a more reasonable description of what the DNA is
telling us.
C)
MARRIAGE: 1880
Name: Arthur Wellington Carpenter
Birth Date:
Birthplace: Osceola
Age:
Spouse's Name: Floretta Precella Mosher
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 09 Feb 1880
Event Place: Fond Du Lac, Wisconsin
Father's Name: Alonzo Carpenter
Mother's Name: Charity Carpenter
Spouse's Father's Name: Jeremiah Mosher
Spouse's Mother's Name: Mary Mahetable Mosher
Race: White
Marital Status: Single
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race: White
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00336-8
System Origin: Wisconsin-EASy
GS Film number: 1266977
Reference ID: RN02869
Citing this Record:
"Wisconsin, Marriages, 1836-1930," index, FamilySearch
(
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XR2J-PZW : accessed 16 April 2015),
Arthur Wellington Carpenter and Floretta Precella Mosher, 09 Feb 1880;
citing reference RN02869; FHL microfilm 1,266,977.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Carpenter via
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 8:45 AM
To: Carl Carpenter ; Carpenter List ; carpenter(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CARPENTER] Descendants of William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth
Hey Carl,
I have an Alonzo Curtis Carpenter in my line. He was born 07 Oct 1845 in
Attica, Seneca, Ohio, died 18 Apr 1914, location uncertain. He is the sixth
son of Daniel D. Carpenter, b. 25 July 1808 in Genesee County NY, d. Venice,
Seneca, Ohio, and the only son of his marriage to Malvina Summerlin, b. 1818
in NY, d. 17 Mar 1892 Willard, Huron Ohio.
Here's the rub, Daniel D. Carpenter is my 3rd Great Grandfather and Alonzo
Curtis Carpenter is my half 3rd Great Uncle. My DNA test places me a 1 of 12
males who make up the core of Group 2 of the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project
who are descended from William Carpenter (2) of Amesbury, Wiltshire, and
Providence Plantation.
Of course it is possible that there were more than one Alonzo Curtis
Carpenter, but from the research I have done he is the only one I have
discovered so far. I hope I haven't muddied the waters even for you. If I
find any more info or can help I am only to willing.
On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 11:37 PM, Carl Carpenter via
<carpenter(a)rootsweb.com> wrote
I'm looking for some help from my cousins. Through the DNA test it has been
determined that my line came from William Carpenter and Abigail Briant. As
far as I know (thanks to Gene Z), they had the following children: John,
1626-1695; Abigail, 1629-1709; William, 1631-1703; Joseph, 1634-1675;
Samuel, 1636-1637; 1638-1682; and Abiah, 1643-1687. (I also have children
for most of these children). I then have a huge gap, picking up with Alonzo
Curtis Carpenter, b. 1819/1820, Mexico, NY, d. 1915, Codington, S.D. I have
not been able to locate any siblings of Alonzo nor his parents. One
proposed line fizzled out when a supposed son doesn't appear to exist. An
earlier thread linking Alonzo to Elisha turned out to be wrong as it took me
to the other William Carpenter (married that Arnold girl). I'm hoping
somebody has something from one direction or the other., Carl Carpenter
-------------------------------
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 15:30:49 -0400
From: Robin C <Analytix(a)valley.net>
Subject: Re: [CARPENTER] Descendants of William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth
To: John R Carpenter <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>, carpenter(a)rootsweb.com
Message-ID: <201505281937.t4SJbCWM019174(a)pike1.valley.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
John:
What does "...far more than first cousins...." mean?
Robin
At 12:05 PM 5/28/2015, you wrote:
A brief reminder ... Groups 2 & 3 are 24/25 marker matches in the
Y-DNA
testing. They are far more than first cousins as further Y-DNA testing has
indicated. See the notes & comments for Group 2 & 3 on the Carpenter Cousins
Y-DNA Project page.
http://carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm#toc006 or see
B) below for the basics.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 16:21:06 -0700
From: "John R Carpenter" <jrcrin001(a)cox.net>
Subject: Re: [CARPENTER] Descendants of William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth
To: <carpenter(a)rootsweb.com>, "Robin C" <Analytix(a)valley.net>
Message-ID: <1047F2D88A1848A78927041FB9BC30DB@JohnCarpenter>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Robin,
Two generations before the William Carpenter immigrants would make them a minimum 2nd
cousins and their children would be kissing cousins or eligible to marry each other. The
could be related farther back in time based on probabilities. The likely estimate is about
7 generations before the immigrants (born rounding off to 1600). Assuming a 20/25 year
generation this 7 generations prior could be roughly about 1420 to 1465ish.
I hope this helps explain what the Y-DNA is showing us.
John R. Carpenter
Carpenter Cousins Project
http://carpentercousins.com
From the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project Notes and discussion for
Groups 2 & 3.
The continuing match between Groups 2 and 3 emphasizes that they
are closely related, while the one new mismatch turns out to be an additional means of
distinguishing between the groups. The new inter-group mismatch on marker Y-GATA-C4 (more
properly known as DYS635) has now been amply confirmed by many further results either
found at Sorenson or ordered as "a la carte" tests at FTDNA.
Based on this now-confirmed discrepancy, along with the originally discovered difference
at DYS464d, and the additional difference at DYS413a, we can state with 95% confidence
that the most recent common ancestor of the two groups was more than 2 generations before
the immigrants and less than about 20. Therefore, the DNA testing has very nearly ruled
out the often-repeated claim that the Williams were first cousins. The most likely
estimate is about 7 generations, but that is a very rough estimate, and the 95% confidence
interval is a more reasonable description of what the DNA is telling us.
From: Robin C
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:30 PM
To: John R Carpenter ; carpenter(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: [CARPENTER] Descendants of William2 Carpenter of Rehoboth
John:
What does "...far more than first cousins...." mean?
Robin
At 12:05 PM 5/28/2015, you wrote:
A brief reminder ... Groups 2 & 3 are 24/25 marker matches in the Y-DNA
testing. They are far more than first cousins as further Y-DNA testing has
indicated. See the notes & comments for Group 2 & 3 on the Carpenter Cousins
Y-DNA Project page.
http://carpentercousins.com/carpdna.htm#toc006 or see
B) below for the basics.
------------------------------
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End of CARPENTER Digest, Vol 10, Issue 44
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