Thank you Gene Z. for your usual scholarly knowledge of our early New
England Carpenters.
Well, if we can't document William of Providence's role in the early history
of the Baptist church perhaps we can make him a founding father of the
property rights crowd? It sounds like his numerous land disputes would make
him a natural for the "steal your neighbors land, steal land from the
government, etc." folks.
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:01 AM, <carpenter-request(a)rootsweb.com> wrote:
Today's Topics:
1. Re: William of Providence, Roger Williams, Baptist Church
(John Mac Carpenter)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:33:52 -0500
From: "John Mac Carpenter" <jcarpenter(a)dbllcnet.net>
Subject: Re: [CARPENTER] William of Providence, Roger Williams,
Baptist Church
To: <carpenter(a)rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <19A2E9A9B22142928A971C708432890D@D4TY17C1>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original
I find this pretty interesting. As I look back at the history of my family
that I know, we have mostly been hungry for property.
In general we've been honest but there are some notable exceptions to that
among close kin in my Carpenter line which does go back to Wm of
Providence.
Wonder if this is a genetic trace? I actually own very little land myself
but still feel that owning land would give me more wealth than what I do
know, even though my income would drop drastically if I wee to sell stocks
and such and buy land.
----- Original Message -----
From: <GeneZub(a)aol.com>
To: <carpenter(a)rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:25 AM
Subject: [CARPENTER] William of Providence, Roger Williams, Baptist Church
> Lloyd wrote:
>
> << Perhaps a discussion of William of Providence's relationship with
> Roger
> Williams and the founding of the Baptist church? Or is this just
legend?
> >>
>
> Various records indicate that the relationship between William1 Carpenter
> of
> Providence and Roger Williams was complex and at times contentious.
> Carpenter, whose father-in-law, William Arnold, had many land disputes
> with his
> neighbors, typically sided with the older man. Though respected for his
> abilities--Carpenter was perennially elected to important civic
> offices--he and
> Arnold were often at odds in politics and religion with Roger Williams
> and others
> at Providence.
>
> The following two paragraphs are taken from my sketch "William Carpenter
> of
> Providence, Rhode Island" (online at
>
http://members.cox.net/jrcrin001/Wm1-Providence.pdf):
>
> Repeating (imperfectly) Benedict?s history of the Baptists, D. H.
> Carpenter
> names eleven men, including William Carpenter, as founders, at
Providence
> between 3 August 1638 and 16 March 1638/9, of the first Baptist church
in
> America (see Baptist Hist 1:473, 475; Carpenter [1901] 16). Benedict?s
> account of
> the baptisms that occurred on the latter date, however, does not
> accurately
> represent the description in Massachusetts Governor John Winthrop?s
> journal
> (the only known contemporaneous record). The latter identifies the
> participants
> only as Roger Williams, ?one [Ezekiel] Holyman, . . . and some ten more?
> (see WJ 286). An 1876 article about Roger Williams (John C. C. Clarke,
> ?The
> Pioneer Baptist Statesman?) challenges Benedict: ?Who those ten were, is
> entirely unknown. . . . No records of their society or church remain.
Mr.
> Benedict
> gave twelve names, and his error has been widely copied without
> questioning.
> Mr. Benedict gives the names of twelve of the first thirteen
proprietors,
> as
> named in Williams?s deed, omitting, however, Mr. Throckmorton, who was
an
> undoubted Baptist. Mr. [Isaac] Backus [A History of New England with
> Particular
> Reference to the . . . Baptists, 2nd ed. (1871)] is against Benedict as
> to
> Waterman and Weston; and Roger Williams sets aside Arnold and Carpenter.
> Probably the first twelve were of the following names, viz., Messrs.
> Brown, Olney,
> Scott, Throckmorton, Westcott, Holiman, Williams, and their wives and
the
> widow Reeves? (BQ 10:199, 204). Williams, in a letter to the General
> Court at
> Boston, depicts Arnold and Carpenter as ?very far allso in religion from
> you,
> if you knew all? (RWCorr 444). The assertion that William Carpenter was
a
> founder of the church at Providence is therefore groundless. . . .
>
> Over the years, William Carpenter joined with William Arnold, ?most
> ruthless
> of the Pawtuxet proprietors,? and with the contentious, ?inordinately
> ambitious? William Harris, another Pawtuxet proprietor, in various
> land-grabbing
> schemes and political maneuvers (Irrepressible Democrat 134, 258?60,
269,
> 278).
>
> The following excerpts from Roger Williams's aforementioned letter to
> Boston
> authorities (dated in 1655, when Providence was under Massachusetts
> jurisdiction) describe Carpenter and Arnold as impediments to "all order
> and
> authority":
>
> Thirdly, concerning four English families at Pawtuxet, may it please you
> to
> remember that two controversies they have long (under your name)
> maintained
> with us, to a constant obstructing of all order and authority amongst
us.
> . . .
>
> And, therefore, (lastly) be pleased to know, that there are (upon the
> point)
> but two families which are so obstructive and destructive to an equal
> proceeding of civil order amongst us; for one of these four families,
> Stephen
> Arnold, desires to be uniform with us ; a second, Zacharie Rhodes, being
> in the
> way of dipping is (potentially) banished by you. Only William Arnold and
> William Carpenter, (very far, also, in religion, from you, if you knew
> all) they
> have some color, yet in a late conference, they all plead that all the
> obstacle
> is their offending of yourselves.
>
> Gene Z.
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>
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End of CARPENTER Digest, Vol 4, Issue 19
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