Ron,
Ron,
No ifs ands or buts, you and I totally agree that not everyone agrees with
me. If they all did, that would be a unmitigated disaster. There would be no
freedom of expression or willingness to share ideas.
This is one reason this Carpenter Rootsweb forum exists for. To share ideas
and information. Ideally about Carpenters/Zimmermans and things that relate
to them of course!
Unfortunately, in todays world we are seeing too much tribal politics and
scorched earth tactics. If one does not agree then the opposition must be
totally destroyed. I think that is evil.
I want to Thank You for sharing and offering a respectful difference of
opinion. That is an example I seriously wish politicians of ALL parties
would follow.
Take care,
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA USA
Carpenter Cousins Project
http://carpentercousins.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Carroll
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2016 11:25 AM
To: 'John R Carpenter' ; carpenter(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: RE: atDNA focus?
I have a somewhat different experience than you.
I have not experienced "the contact rate among Ancestry DNA (atDNA) members
is low and dropping". I am administering 4 kits in my family and have ~1200
shared ancestor hints, where I have checked the other kit owner's line. I am
seeing considerably more matches per unit of time today than 3 years ago,
because many more people are being tested at ancestry. Also, I am contacted
by other researchers much more frequently than 3 years ago.
Y-DNA versus atDNA is not an either/or situation - both should be used.
BTW, earlier this week, ancestry completed an investment in more accurate
reporting of atDNA matches. I am surprised that anyone thinks this is a
secondary function at ancestry.
My point was not to debate this, because neither of us will change the
other's opinion. I was simply making a point that not everyone agrees with
you.
-----Original Message-----
From: John R Carpenter [mailto:jrcrin001@cox.net]
Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 12:31 PM
To: Ron Carroll; carpenter(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: atDNA focus?
Ron,
Each type of DNA test has their primary function and some have a secondary
purpose. When a secondary seems to override the primary, that does become
debatable.
Ancestry.com started out with mtDNA, Y-DNA and later added atDNA tests. They
have since ditched the former two and focused on the most profitable atDNA.
They sell more atDNA kits than the competitors combined.
Ancestry.com DNA commercials and other DNA advertising does not focus on
connecting genealogy but on ethnic origins. They have realized they sell
more Ancestry DNA Kits with that specific advertising than any other
approach. The secondary function of the test has become the primary sales
tool.
One side effect is that the contact rate among Ancestry DNA (atDNA) members
is low and dropping. Why? Because one needs a decent genealogy to compare
to a matching decent genealogy to confirm the paper trail to any cousin
found. The great majority of Ancestry DNA members can not do this and they
find it frustrating when they try. Mostly it is a lack of understanding and
education. Projects at Ancestry are not supported. NOTE: the data can be
transferred to
FTDNA.com in some cases.
GEDmatch came about for more serious genetic genealogists to share atDNA
tested at various DNA companies. It is similar, but much more advanced, than
the old neglected YSearch and MSearch for Y-DNA and mtDNA respectively.
By the way, 23andMe focuses their atDNA test on medical genealogy. Ethnic
ancestry is secondary. No projects supported. This is a slight adjustment to
what I implied on them.
National Geographic Genographic focuses their atDNA test on population
genetics. You pay more to support free testing. Most people support this
cause and like the general ethnic ancestry results where the professionals
focus on the population genetics - another term for the details behind
ethnic ancestry. The primary purpose for both is not genealogy. Those
interested in genealogy have the option of transferring their atDNA to
FTDNA.com where genealogy is still primary.
The Family Tree DNA atDNA test (Family Finder) focuses on genealogy and
matching. It has the highest contact response rates. Secondary is ethnic
ancestry. Projects are supported.
See more at:
http://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA_testing_comparison_chart
On the Autosomal DNA testing comparison chart cited above is a section
called:
Overall accuracy and sophistication of the biogeographical ancestry analysis
rated on a 1-10 scale with 10 being excellent and 1 being poor <Wow, what a
mouthful!>
Ethnic Ancestry is biogeographical ancestry.
Ancestry.com has the highest
rating (7) and gives the most detailed Ancestry Composition. And the option
of seeing results for conservative, standard, and speculative ethnic
ancestry. Again, more focus showing the secondary purpose as primary.
In summary of the four companies mentioned above, two are clearly focused on
the secondary ethnic ancestry, one on medical and the last on genealogy.
Based on this, I stand by my statement that "Most people use these tests to
see their ethnic heritages."
You can do genetic triangulation with atDNA, but it is more difficult than
with Y-DNA. And it has more limitations and only goes back to about 6
generations at best.
For surname research, Y-DNA is the best type of DNA test. This is why the
Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project is focused specifically on the type of DNA.
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA USA
Carpenter Cousins Project
http://carpentercousins.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Carroll
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2016 7:32 AM
To: 'John R Carpenter' ; carpenter(a)rootsweb.com
Subject: RE: [CARPENTER] FTDNA sale & which type of DNA test is best?
This is a good summary, but regarding autosomal DNA, "Most people use these
tests to see their ethnic heritages" is certainly debatable. Ancestry DNA
claims to have 1.5 million atDNA test results, and my observation is that
genealogy is the primary reason. Also, many people are using GEDmatch to
supplement their genealogy research.
<SNIP>
...
Autosomal DNA Tests
Ancestry and 23andMe focus on autosomal DNA (atDNA) FTDNA has a
similar test called Family Finder. Most people use these tests to see their
ethnic heritages. So much European, so much Middle Eastern, et cetera.
Some use it to DNA fragments in comparison to others for cousin
similarity. 23andMe also uses atDNA type testing for medical genetic warning
type tests as for Cystic Fibrosis, Sickle Cell Anemia, Hereditary Hearing
Loss and et cetera.
To see the differences between these atDNA testing companies, please
go to the following link.
http://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA_testing_comparison_chart
For many groups they have a recognizable common ancestor. For Group 2
(of the Carpenter Cousins Y-DNA Project) it is the immigrant William
Carpenter b. abt 1610 in England. With triangulation we have re-created his
genetic profile or fingerprint. The same for Group 3 and a few other groups.
...