Dear Bruce,
The William Carpenter who is known as William of London, born circa
1340, was buried in St. Martin Church in Outwich, London, England in
1407. This is per Wiliam Playfair's work. I had this as a side note in
my notebook and must have missed it upon entering data.
I apparently wrote 1409 in error. He was about 67 years old as a guess
when he died.
William of Fleetstreet noted in the 1394 Close Rolls was probably the
same person:
INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:14716
------------------------------------------------------
Name:William of London CARPENTER Sex:M ID No:
Birth:Abt 1340 Place:of London,Middlesex,England
Chr: Place:
Marr: Spouse:
Marr: Spouse:
Marr: Spouse:
Death: 1407 Place:of London,Middlesex,England
Burial: 1407 Place:St.Martin Church,Outwich,London,England
Father:John OR Jean CARPENTIER le-85 Mother:(CARPENTER)-4677
Notes --------------------------------------------
!His cousin was Roger Carpenter of London.
DEATH: Per Playfair buried in St.Martin Church.
Could John of Hertford be ...
INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:88
--------------------------------------------
Name:John the elder CARPENTER Sex:M ID No:8MJ2-7P
Birth:Abt 1360/1364 Place:of London,Middlesex,England
Chr: Place:
Marr:Bef 1399 Spouse:(CARPENTER)-4674
Marr: Spouse:
Marr: Spouse:
Death: Place:
Burial: Place:
Father:Richard CARPENTER-86 Mother:Christina-87
Notes --------------------------------------------
!JOHN SENIOR was the eldest brother of JOHN (the younger) who was the
noted Town Clerk of London.
Comments?
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
"Bruce E. Carpenter" wrote:
"1) IF SO, we know that Roger Carpenter was a cousin to William of
London, son of John. William Carpenter of London died in 1409. His birth
year is estimated at 1340. This probably means a parallel Carpenter
line in the London area?"
We have to draw a distinction between perhaps two Williams. The first
William (the apothecary) could be a cousin of Roger. A younger brother
would be better. Apothecary means drug wholesaler, a sub-trade of the
Spicers-Grocers.
The other William appears in Close Rolls for 1394 as William Carpenter
of Fleetstreet. How do we have a firm 1409 death date? The subject ot John
needs clarification. The only John Carpenter for late 1300s in John
Carpenter
of Hertford. He first appears in 1388 as a witness and last in 1409 as a
witness.
He seems an established individual with property and appeared as witness
various times.
>From the 1388 first date I would put his birth in the 1330s. Another brother
of Thomas son of
Roger?
All the other Carpenters in the lesser trades could be sons of William.
One you haven't heard about was Richard Carpenter the Brewer. From
Close Rolls, August 14, 1339.
"To the sheriff of Berkshire. Writ of sepersedas, and order by mainprise of
George Crecy 'goldsmith', Richard Carpenter 'bruer' of the city of
London...."
After this Richard comes a Phillip Carpenter 'bruer' and should be son.
All these Carpenters, plus Richard the Candlemaker, should be lesser
descendants of the main line who had the real money.
My reference of a Master Richard Carpenter of Hertfordshire will
have to be discarded because he seems to have been John of Gaunt's
personal house carpenter and appears many times in THE JOHN OF GAUNT
REGISTER as Richard le Carpentier and other names. This I will check again
through.
If we focus too much on London we will loose track of the main
Carpenter story which is from Surrey and then into Bristol, Glouscester
and Hereford.
Roger Carpenter 'the Spicer' had a married daughter in 1350 according
to the London Letter Books and at the same time Roger had an infant Thomas.
How many
children do you think he had all together? Fifteen? Say half were sons and
half of them survived the plague. Thus in the late 1300s there are three
or four very rich Carpenter merchants in the 'patrician trades'. Where does
this lead
us. Richard Carpenter must certainly be one. Walter another? Thomas
certainly another.
BC