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Message-ID: <39839947.AC6B31C1(a)home.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 19:56:07 -0700
From: John Carpenter <jrcrin001(a)home.com>
Organization: @Home Network
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To: "Bruce E. Carpenter" <carp(a)whidbey.com>
Subject: Re: rethinking 3
References: <000d01bff68d$05f7a2c0$2f41a6d1@carp>
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Dear Bruce,
I have a Renaud or Richard le Carpentier from de Grand Pont born circa
1307 who went to London. Nothing more was noted about him.
Could he be the Richard Carpenter the Brewer?
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
RE:
All the other Carpenters in the lesser trades could be sons of
William.
One you haven't heard about was Richard Carpenter the Brewer.
From
Close Rolls, August 14, 1339.
"To the sheriff of Berkshire. Writ of sepersedas, and order by mainprise of
George Crecy 'goldsmith', Richard Carpenter 'bruer' of the city of
London...."
After this Richard comes a Phillip Carpenter 'bruer' and should be son.
All these Carpenters, plus Richard the Candlemaker, should be lesser
descendants of the main line who had the real money.
"Bruce E. Carpenter" wrote:
>
> "1) IF SO, we know that Roger Carpenter was a cousin to William of
> London, son of John. William Carpenter of London died in 1409. His birth
> year is estimated at 1340. This probably means a parallel Carpenter
> line in the London area?"
>
> We have to draw a distinction between perhaps two Williams. The first
> William (the apothecary) could be a cousin of Roger. A younger brother
> would be better. Apothecary means drug wholesaler, a sub-trade of the
> Spicers-Grocers.
> The other William appears in Close Rolls for 1394 as William Carpenter
> of Fleetstreet. How do we have a firm 1409 death date? The subject ot John
> needs clarification. The only John Carpenter for late 1300s in John
> Carpenter
> of Hertford. He first appears in 1388 as a witness and last in 1409 as a
> witness.
> He seems an established individual with property and appeared as witness
> various times.
> >From the 1388 first date I would put his birth in the 1330s. Another brother
> of Thomas son of
> Roger?
>
> All the other Carpenters in the lesser trades could be sons of William.
One you haven't heard about was Richard Carpenter the Brewer.
From
Close Rolls, August 14, 1339.
"To the sheriff of Berkshire. Writ of sepersedas, and order by mainprise of
George Crecy 'goldsmith', Richard Carpenter 'bruer' of the city of
London...."
After this Richard comes a Phillip Carpenter 'bruer' and should be son.
All these Carpenters, plus Richard the Candlemaker, should be lesser
descendants of the main line who had the real money.
> My reference of a Master Richard Carpenter of Hertfordshire will
> have to be discarded because he seems to have been John of Gaunt's
> personal house carpenter and appears many times in THE JOHN OF GAUNT
> REGISTER as Richard le Carpentier and other names. This I will check again
> through.
>
> If we focus too much on London we will loose track of the main
> Carpenter story which is from Surrey and then into Bristol, Glouscester
> and Hereford.
>
> Roger Carpenter 'the Spicer' had a married daughter in 1350 according
> to the London Letter Books and at the same time Roger had an infant Thomas.
> How many
> children do you think he had all together? Fifteen? Say half were sons and
> half of them survived the plague. Thus in the late 1300s there are three
> or four very rich Carpenter merchants in the 'patrician trades'. Where does
> this lead
> us. Richard Carpenter must certainly be one. Walter another? Thomas
> certainly another.
> BC
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