Dear Bruce,
I agree there is no reason to discount William as the son of Roger or
vice versa. Relationships are still hypothetical between Roger &
William either as cousin or brothers. The same between William, Thomas
and Richard.
On CHART A & B we have 1) Roger or Rodger Carpenter b. abt 1280 to 1310
d. 1349 listed with different fathers, yet similar children. Do we have
two different Rogers or did I mess up something?
Help!
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
CHART A
William le Carpenter b. abt 1170 to 1190
--------------------------------------
| | |
| Edward of St. Clement Danes |
| (b. abt 1205 to 1235) |
| Martin le Carpenter
| (b. abt 1205 to 1235)
| SEE CHART B
|
John le Carpenter b. abt 1205 to 1235
| | | (Jean or Jehan in French??)
| | |
| | Agnes b. abt 1275 to 1305 (she inherited)
| John le Carpenter b. abt 1275 to 1280
| of Stanton St. John who died in the 1330s.
|
1) Roger or Rodger Carpenter b. abt 1280 to 1310 d. 1349
| | |
| Daughter m by 1349 |
| (b. abt 1329 to 1334) |
| |
Thomas b. 1349 Walter b. abt 1325 to 1347 (1342?)
| |
| |
| |-------|(HIGHER PROBABILITY AS SON)
|?--------------->?
| Richard of Mochelden b. abt 1360 to 1389
|
|----------Thomas Carpenter b. abt 1380 in Suffolk
| |
Robert b. abt 1370 to 1395 |
| Thomas b. abt 1410
Richard b. abt 1405 to 1429 |
John b. abt 1450 of Caversham d. 1544
|
William b. abt 1480
|
John b. abt 1505
CHART B
Martin le Carpenter (b. abt 1205 to 1235) SEE CHART A
|
William Carpenter (b. abt 1250?) 'the spicer'
| |?
| William le Charpenter b. abt 1310 to 1330
| aka William 'the apothecary' le Charpenter
|
1) Roger Carpenter b. abt 1310 to 1330 d. 1349 'the spicer'
| |
Thomas b. 1349 Walter b. abt 1325 to 1359 (1342?)
| |
| |
| |-------------|
|?--------------------->?
| Richard of Mochelden b. abt 1360 to 1389
|
Robert b. abt 1370 to 1395
"Bruce E. Carpenter" wrote:
"The William Carpenter who is known as William of London, born circa
1340, was buried in St. Martin Church in Outwich, London, England in
1407. This is per Wiliam Playfair's work."
There is no reason to discount William the Apothocary or William of London
as
the son of Roger the Spicer. Roger had a married daughter c. 1350 and
Roger lived a short distance away in St. Benedict Shorehogg parish. There
is no earlier reference to a Carpenter in this area prior to Roger. Roger's
probable
father, William Carpenter the Spicer, lived in Holborn.The choice of
'cousin' for
William is utterly arbitrary and illogical. Son is the right choice.
Also there was a Thomas Carpenter who owned shops in Cheapside with Roger.
He should be Roger's brother. All of this represents a demographic move
by some of the Carpenters from their old neighborhood of Fleetstreet-Holborn
to the Chaepside-Cornhill district. William should be Richard's brother.
There is
one more bit of evidence to support this. There are c. 1400 references to
a William Carpenter of Fleetstreet and a Richard Carpenter of Fleetstreet.
The Carpenters still retained their residences in Fleetstreet at this time.
John the Town Clerk had a house there as proven by the Will discoved in
1965.
My suspicion is that the old Fleetsreet area still served as a warehouse or
business area for them, even though they couldn't stand the smell and had
their permanent residences elsewhere.
William, Thomas and Richard brothers!!!!
BC