Dear American Cousins,
Gill and I wish you all a very happy and peaceful, harmonious new year.
This Christmas I spent several days going through all the hard copies I have
of correspondence of the Carpenters rootsweb.
In August 1999 you were in conflict with a certain Professor. The Family of
Carpenters were being divided by petty disputes. Insults to the integrity of
one of our most dedicated researchers, John Carpenter, were being voiced on
the web for all to read. This was and is unforgivable and not in the true
spirit of our great family. I wish this unworthy bickering to stop in the
coming year.
My Brother Alex produced a book which he called "Carpenters and Related
Families" in 1987. It was fully researched by him over a period of more than
15 years. We live in England, so we have access to documents and areas of
the country that many of you have not visited. We drink, for example, in a
public house that was built before America was discovered. Yet we have to
put up with the opinions of a Professor who dispises the early roots of my
family. I will soon be reaching my 71st year, so please stop this bickering
and enjoy your great family conections in peace and tranquilty.
"No man should argue or be swayed in debate by religion unless he sits on
the right hand of his God".
Regards to you all,
Tony Carpenter.
I check most of the so called dicoveries posted with my own references, but
do not comment so as to avoid arguments.
But to stop the silly comments about John [the Younger] Carpenter below is
reproduced part of the first Chapter of the Book "The City School Of
London" by A.E.Douglas-Smith, that is in my possession.
PART I
THE FOUNDER
C. 1372-1442
CHAPTER I
JOHN CARPENTER
THE date of the foundation of the City of London School is always given as
1442, but the School was not actually opened till 1837.
The explanation of the earlier date is that the City of London School was
established as a result of prolonged inquiry into a famous bequest of John
Carpenter, a Town Clerk of London who died in 1442, and the eventual
decision of the Corporation of London to apply it to the endowment of a
school.
John Stow, in his Survey of London (1598), thus records the nature of the
actual bequest:
'He gave tenements to the Citye for the finding and bringing up of foure
pooré men's children with meate, drinke, apparell, learning at the schooles
in the universities, &c., until they be preferred, and then others in their
places for ever.'
By a tradition dating at latest from 1843, the Captain of the School every
year on Prize Day delivers a declamation in the Founder's praise. Apart from
vague memories of these speeches, probably most Old Citizens have derived
their knowledge of John Carpenter from casual glances at the statue on Main
Staircase, with Liber Albus in its hands, and the inscription beneath.
Further research on the life of Carpenter remains to be done, and may, it is
hoped, eventually be published. The bulk of what is at present known of him
is still to be found in the Memoir of the Life and Times of John Carpenter
produced in 1856 by Thomas Brewer, the first School Secretary.
End
Note:-
There is another "Carpenters Charity" funded by the Will of William
Carpenter 1650. of Pembridge.
TC.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Carpenter <jrcrin001(a)home.com>
To: Tony Carpenter <chipps(a)chipps.screaming.net>
Cc: <CARPENTER-L(a)rootsweb.com>; Terry Lee Carpenter <diluvius(a)flash.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 11:32 PM
Subject: RE: John Carpenter, the younger, the Noted Town Clerk of London
Dear Folks,
I go on vacation for a few days and I see that Bruce E. is his normal
charming self. Before I talk about John Carpenter the younger and his
resulting "foundation and endowment of the City of London School," I
need to mention an item or two.
Bruce E. is stating since John Carpenter, the younger, didn't intend to
fund the London School for Boys he really is a nobody. I disagree AND
so did the English in an Act of Parliament in 1834. (See page 18 of the
Carpenter Memorial).
"The rest is sheer mythology" and "This is misinformation" were some
of
his comments about information presented by me. Bruce E. wishes it so,
but alas he is wrong.
Bruce E. wishes to try to discredit people who do not believe the way he
does. He seems to take special effort to discrediting me because I
disagree or have stated something he does not like. I have put up with
slander, defamation and various forms of harassment on this and other
forums because of what he has written about me.
The above happened to me when a simple request of places to visit in
England was responded by me on this Carpenter Forum.
I have tried to be patient because Bruce E. can provide interesting
information when it is sourced and not taken out of context. If his
harassment continues I have several legal options.
Now on to John Carpenter the younger who was the Noted Town Clerk of
London.
On Page 11 of the Carpenter Memorial by Amos Bugbee Carpenter printed in
1898 is that the funds John the younger intended to supply "only to the
providing of education, clothing and commons for four boys ..." if
combined with other trusts could greatly enhance their efficiency.
So much for some momentous 1965 discovery changing the face of the
intent of the MULTIPLE TRUSTS set up directly and indirectly by John
Carpenter the younger. YES. I said MULTIPLE TRUSTS. Read about some of
them in the Carpenter Memorial in the summary on pages 18, 19 and 20.
The trust of 4 Altar Boys is separate and distinct from the trust of 4
boys (ages 8 to 16) of freemen of London to be selected from time to
time to be given an "education, clothing and commons for four boys."
This trust was not for the rich but for those children of London who
would not normally have a chance for such schooling. I.E. for the
"poore."
The caretakers of such trusts did a good job in merging various trusts
to carry out what they believe was the intent of the those trusts.
Credit was given to John Carpenter the younger as the oldest trust that
formed the foundation of the change and efficiency of the those trusts.
These changes were approved under the authority of an act of Parliament
in 1834. (See page 18 of the Carpenter Memorial).
John Carpenter the younger set a good example and legacy of character.
He has a statue giving him credit for his noble deeds. It is a shame
that he never had children. Never-the-less to be nominated as one of
"Carpenter's children" was AND STILL IS a great honor.
NO ONE, especially Bruce E. Carpenter, can ever take that away from
those that the trusts have served and the noble character of John
Carpenter the younger.
Read about this information for yourself in the first 20 pages of the
Carpenter Memorial. Read the "THE CITY OF LONDON SCHOOL" By A. E.
Douglas-Smith, 2nd Edition, 1965, it too is on microfilm if you can not
find a printed copy. There is a lot more information available than the
samples given on this forum.
Can anyone else nominate another Carpenter of England that is more
famous and more noted over the centuries than John Carpenter the
younger?
AND by the way, John Carpenter was a "member of the Company of
Mercers." It is so quoted on page 18 of the Carpenter Memorial.
For those wishing more information on the Mercers Company with records
dating back to 1348, I suggest the following web page:
http://www.mercers.co.uk/mainsite/pages/c_archives.html
Mercers Company is the correct term today for Mercers Guild.
Merchant Adventurers were a company of English merchants who engaged in
trade with the Netherlands (and later with northwest Germany) from the
early 15th century to 1806. SEE web page at:
http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/2/0,5716,53392+1+52088,00.html
Merchant Adventurers were also a group of about 70 people who invested
widely varying amounts of money in the Plymouth Colony. This was in the
1620s! See Web Page:
http://members.aol.com/calebj/merchant_adventurers.html
Mercers Company, Mercers Guild and Merchant Adventures are related. See
web page at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/north_east_england_history_page/Yor
kStreets.htm#Fossgate
Fossgate ... The Merchant Adventurers' Hall which is reached via an
alleyway. It was founded in 1357 as the Guild of Our Lord and the
Blessed Virgin but was absorbed by the Guild of Mercers in the fifteenth
century. In 1580 the guild became the Merchant Adventurers, a powerful
company which co-ordinated foreign trade in York.
TODAY, Adventurers Guild and Merchant Adventures is totally different.
See the following web pages for examples:
http://www.epmgames.com/AGpage.html
http://www.adventurers-guild.com/
Below is what I have on John the younger. It is intended as a general
reference only. If Bruce E. wishes to disagree, let him, if he is civil.
I wish every one, including Cousin Bruce E. Carpenter,
A Very Merry Christmas and a Happy & Safe New Year!
John R. Carpenter
La Mesa, CA
INDIVIDUAL DATA RIN:89
-------------------------------------------------------
Name:John the younger CARPENTER Sex:M ID No:4JG9-4L
Birth:Abt 1370/1372 Place:of London,Middlesex,England
Chr: Place:
Marr: Spouse:Katherine-14720
Death:Aft 8 Mar 1441 Place:Parish of,St.Peter,Cornhill,England
Burial:Bef 12 May 1442 Place:Abby ofSt.Peter,London,M,England
Father:Richard or Renaud CARPENTER-86 Mother:Christina-87
Notes -----------------------------------------------
!The noted Town Clerk of London. He founded The City of London School.
SEE 1068046, ITEM 2, in the British Film Area. A considerable amount of
information is available on JOHN the Younger or Junior. He married, but
died childless. This John Carpenter is frequently distinguished in
documents as 'John Carpenter, junior,' and also as Jenkin or Jenken, a
diminutive of the name of John. He was a MP (Member of Parliment) from
London in 1425.
!SEE: "Memoir of the Life and Times of John Carpenter, Town Clerk of
London in the reigns of Henry Fifth and Sixth." By Thomas Brewer in
1856, London.
Part of this Memoir is in the Carpenter Memorial (1898) starting on page
3.
Brewer found no record of this John's life until his election as Town
Clerk or Common Clerk of the City of London on April 20, 1417, two years
after the Battle of Agincourt. The exemption mentioned on page 14
suggests that John Carpenter had been in the City's service 'from the
time of his youth,' and he was certainly clerk to John Marchaunt, his
predecessor as Town Clerk.
!WILL: A copy of his will is in the Carpenter Memorial. Pages 12-17.
Will dated 8 March 1441 and proved 12 May 1442. The City of London
School claims his death as 12 May 1442, it was when the will was proved
- after his death.
NOTE: John Carpenter, Junior the Town Clerk of London was Executor of
Dick Whittington's Will, He was a Member of Parliament. John Carpenter
was a MP also.
!SEE: "THE CITY OF LONDON SCHOOL" By A. E. Douglas-Smith, 2nd Edition,
1965, Oxford. This John Carpenter was one of 3 John Carpenters who were
prominent in this time period. One was his elder brother named John
Carpenter, sometimes known as John the Elder, this was a not uncommon
medieval practice.
The other John Carpenter was Warden of St. Anthony's Hospital, Rector of
St. Mary's Magdalen, and later Bishop of Worcester. SEE NOTE Below.
Per the above record, John Carpenter the younger's will was made in his
70th year. This indicates his birth about 1371/1372. He would have
been Town Clerk at about age 45, which seems reasonable.
!MISC: Author of first book of English Common Law "Liber Albus". He was
a leader in education in early England and funded the City of London
School for Poor Children. He was also a member of Parliament from
London.
He owned over 300 buildings and had a fish pond or reservoir on top of
his own house. He willed these to his borther.
John the younger obtained letter of patent from the Crown (Henry VI)
dated 3 Dec. 18 (1418?) exempting him for the whole of his life from all
military and civil duties whatsoever, among which as included election
as member of Parliment and receiving the Honour of Knighthood.
SEE: Carpenter Chronicles, Vol. 26, (Sept. 1996) note by John Patching.
Please note that John the younger had to earn his Knighthood and Arms
for Service. His brother received his Knighthood and Arms from his
father.
!AF has birth dates reversed 1372 instead of 1364.
!NOTE: The City of London School for Poor Children was built in 1837 and
remodeled in 1896 as mentioned in the Carpenter Memorial by Amos B.
Carpenter.
However, it was damaged during World War Two. The statue of John
Carpenter was damaged and now (Nov. 1998) "resides in a prominent
position on a plinth high up on the wall of the School's glassed ceiling
atrium standing over the
door to the balcony of our Great Hall. In this position 'He' also
'sees' the full splendour of St. Paul's Dome." Per the Head Porter -
B.
Darling, MISM of City of London School. Located on Queen Victoria
Street, London EC4V 3AL. Mr.
Darling was so kind to send a couple of pictures of this remarkable
ancestor.
Please note: Most records give the date of the foundation of the School
as 1442, but the school was not actually opened until 1837.
!COAT OF ARMS:
THE CARPENTER FAMILY OF ENGLAND AND THE UNITED STATES.
By J. Hatton Carpenter.
FROM: Utah Genealogical and Historical Magazine, Vol. 16 Number 2, April
1925.
Page 60-70. Partial excerpt ...
"The family bore arms, which in heraldic parlance reads as follows:
"Paly of six, argent and gules, on a chevron azure, 3 cross crosslets
or." Motto "Per acuta belli" (through In a the asperities of war). The 3
cross crosslets denote an ancestor in be Crusades or who was a
Crusader. ...
In a letter dated 7 August, 1907, from Rev. William Boyd Carpenter,
Bishop Ripon, Yorkshire, afterwards a Canon of Westminster and chaplain
to the reigning sovereign of England, the writer was informed that he,
the Bishop, bore the Hereford Arms, and that Sir Noel Paton explained to
him that originally the crest was a round-handled sword, which in
drawing became shortened, until nothing but the cross and globe are left
beneath it. These arms were used by John Carpenter, town clerk of
London, who died in 1442."
John Boyd Carpenter 1929???-1992.
Archibald Boyd Carpenter 1903???.
William Boyd Carpenter (Rev) brother to Archibald???.
Archibald Boyd Carpenter 1843??.
???
end notes.